Christino:

@ Nferyn,
Thanks for the link, I believe that was where my 2 points came from, preachers use them a lot too.

Yes, because the argument sounds convincing if you already believe. What is put before you, a believer, is really only a choice between two positions: believing in the Christian God or rejecting the Christian God.

Christino:

But the wager is still the bottom line. You either gain or lose. And the fact remains that one wager ends in a loss, one ends in a gain and there is a 50-50 chance. Which would be logical to choose, you should know?

Christino, the premisses are incorrect and the reasoning is flawed. Just some objections to make it a little clearer:
* There is no choice between two positions, it's a choice between hundereds of positions: many religions have their own path to God and say that theirs is [b]the [/b]path. This alone makes the wager untenable as an argument, unless you already believe (and thus have dismissed the other options on faith)
* The consequence of choosing to believe is not that you lose nothing. If you are a believer, you invest a considerable amount of time and/or money in your belief. Time and money that could have been spent on other things in a life that has a 100% chance of existing. It's wasting part of your life for a possibility that there is a God
* It assumes that belief is something you can choose. There is nothing indicating that you can choose to believe or not to believe.

Christino:

You have been told, smoking can cause cancer. Condoms can prevent HIV AIDs. (though this is more realistic)

Well, humans are not always rational in their choices. After all, to a certain extent we all seek out danger. the thrill of the moment can be more rewarding than the possible consequences afterwards.

Christino:

An open choice you know, i'm sure you chose the safer one didn't you?

In these two cases I certainly would, but sometimes the consequences of our actions aren't always very clear and there's a lot of luck/chance involved.

Christino:

Mind you, i'm not attacking your belief, i'm just telling you my experience. It's for you to reason with it or discard it. Thanks all d same.

Thank you for engaging in this discussion. At very least you open up your mind enough to listen to people with different opinions.

Hey man if u really wanna know read the kingjamesversion Holy Bible also the romans wrote down when he was crucified so U cant doubt that

He was married.
The wedding of Yashu’a Bar Maryam (aka Jesus son of Mary) took place in Cana in Galilee. The reception was in Bethany at Yashua’s own house. The reason why it was not recorded was because the Essenes vowed celibacy. It would’ve been a travesty to hear that one of their own had defected and married other that with the approval of the Rabb – the head of the order – for the sole purpose of reproduction.Bethany is where he lived with Martha, Lazarus, and his wife Mary Magdalene after the wedding. When he defected from the Essene’s village, Lazarus, his student, took him in. This was many years before he knew that he would marry Lazarus’ sister.

you can twist the truth as much as you want, that is the ploy that has been used many times over before, by the davinci code guys and others. you are just recycling old lies. carry on your work of deception, your master must be highly pleased.

@debosky

He was married.
The wedding of Yashu’a Bar Maryam (aka Jesus son of Mary) took place in Cana in Galilee. The reception was in Bethany at Yashua’s own house. The reason why it was not recorded was because the Essenes vowed celibacy. It would’ve been a travesty to hear that one of their own had defected and married other that with the approval of the Rabb – the head of the order – for the sole purpose of reproduction.Bethany is where he lived with Martha, Lazarus, and his wife Mary Magdalene after the wedding. When he defected from the Essene’s village, Lazarus, his student, took him in. This was many years before he knew that he would marry Lazarus’ sister.

Nothing to do with Da Vinci,but Facts,he was married.
Something is important:Nobody force you to beleive this fact,so dont bother for nothing

again you state 'facts' withou any back up. that seems to be your MO. like I said, your master must be very happy.

your master must be very happy

He is,Because we fight against IGNORANCE.The word ignorance means to ignore the facts, however, when you ignore the facts, you breed beliefs; and that’s just what they (religious teachers) have, all belief and no facts. When you believe in something, you are accepting things without knowing. To break the spell of ignorance or belief, you must have knowledge: knowledge of the root of any subject.The people of old overstood how the language was shaped, and how it grew because they knew the roots. Then evil people set in to rip the plant from its root like goats (the symbol of Sama'EL) rip plants from the root, to kill the crop.

He is,Because we fight against IGNORANCE.The word ignorance means to ignore the facts, however, when you ignore the facts, you breed beliefs; and that’s just what they (religious teachers) have, all belief and no facts. When you believe in something, you are accepting things without knowing. To break the spell of ignorance or belief, you must have knowledge: knowledge of the root of any subject.The people of old overstood how the language was shaped, and how it grew because they knew the roots. Then evil people set in to rip the plant from its root like goats (the symbol of Sama'EL) rip plants from the root, to kill the crop.

does this actually make any sense whatsoever?

@Horus,

Horus:

and that’s just what they (religious teachers) have, all belief and no facts

#1. Where are your FACTS that Jesus Christ was married?

#.2 Where are your FACTS that Jesus Christ was an Essene?

#3. Where are your FACTS that Jesus' disciples were Essene?

#4. What has your "black jesus" done for YOU?

aint go argue with yall, on judgement day when the whole thing dey too late , u go know, dey follow dem talk nonsence,

@MP007

There is not such a thing as judgement day

So, take it easy and live your life for today

yo rev one day there will be a judgement day says so in the bible yo homey all dat matters is jesus died on a cross so we can go to heaven if u know that everything else dont really matter

Jduck13:

yo rev one day there will be a judgement day says so in the bible yo homey all that matters is jesus died on a cross so we can go to heaven if u know that everything else don't really matter

Jesus died on a cross so nothing else matters?

You have just summed up the nonsense of christianity in one sentence

u will know the true when ur asx is burning in hell in da last dayz , keep fronting

Hell do not exist.Why is it that you can’t find hell if it really is a place that exists? Scientists have listened to the ground, they have all kinds of advanced technical equipment with computers. Have they heard crackling fires? No!!! Why?

science will continue to give millions grayhound tickets to hell,

yo christianity cannot be stupidity read the bible then read other religions and u will c other religions r based off of christianity or have bits and pieces of christianity in them


i understand u don't believe us rev and others but i would like to know what u believe

if there is no god then how r we here
and dont say evolution because evolution starts with one small tiny organism a 'cell' and without god there would be no 'cell' to start evolution so the theory of evolutiopn still points toward a higher bein a.k.a god know please tell me how we can all be here if there is no god




u know i know jesus the son of god died on the cross for my sins so i may go to heaven and it changed my life and if u wouukd just believe truly u to would feel free as i do

I do not try to teach falsely i speak the truth because the truth is what i know and i have a burden for lost souls in a dying world

I too at 1 point doubted so i researched and studied and it ultimately lead to me understanding that jesus died on the cross for our sins how do i know this because the old testament prophicies of this happening and the new testament tells of it happening no other religion does the same as in connecting prophecys and telling when the prophecy was completed there is firm evidence in the bible i suggest u read the bible and then c if u believe if not then read all the other non christian 'bibles' and then c if u believe

aarguing this subject will not solve the subject the truht is jesus died for the 'world' the whole entire world so those who believe can go to heaven please read the bible just once and u will c and fellow christians the cussing will not help win over anyone to the lord ive seen poeple on this thread claiming jesus as their saviour cussing i would just like to say taht doesnt helpm it only makes the matter worse

Never mind Jesus Christ, I think a few of the religious bigots on this forum could benefit from being nailed to a cross for a few hours 

MP007:

science will continue to give millions grayhound tickets to hell,

As long as we do not 'Greyhound' tickets to that pretend place 

I would appreciate it revrend if u would quit dissing christians and christ its wrong i dont diss your beliefs i just tell u how it is and if u refuse to accept it so be it i accept it

guys i think you should be careful of what you say so that you don't answer for it on the last day. a word of advice.

[size=28pt] *tufiakwa*[/size]

Believe whatever u wanna believe, all I know is that He died for my sins and rose to give me victory and eternal life, others things I dont know,

lf its not written in the bible then its NOT true!

BASETSANA:

lf its not written in the bible then its NOT true!

I feel you.

However, just to add a bit of helpful reflection.

The maxim that "if its not written in the bible then its NOT true" should be qualified so that people don't misread or misjudge your persuasions. There are many things not written in the Bible, but we can't deny that they are 'true' even though we don't find them in the Bible. I've checked this out myself (will offer examples if requested).

The point I'm trying to make is simply this:

As far as Biblical truth is concerned as defining the Christian Faith, if a pseudo-'Christian' material poses as "Christian" while attacking Christianity, then we recognize it for what it is: FALSEHOOD.

Jduck13:

yo christianity cannot be stupidity read the bible then read other religions and u will c other religions r based off of christianity or have bits and pieces of christianity in them

(1) will you care to enlighten us which other religion are based off of christianity?
(2) which religion has bits and pieces of christianity in them?

Do not disturb urself @poster. Wait until then when you shall c things for yourself. Christainity and Islam both admit that h is coming back. He is alive, He that was dead. He comes back and these things would judge everyman who have denied his existence in judgement.

The truth of the matter is, you cannot live the way yu like because there are consequences. You are just better off if u believe on Him cos you ve got nothing to loose in the end if it happens that the whole thing is real. (if you prefer to have it told to you that way though.)

Sigh, it seems like the religious apologists are devolving. The arguments they bring are getting weaker by the day.

Jduck13:

yo christianity cannot be stupidity read the bible then read other religions and u will c other religions r based off of christianity or have bits and pieces of christianity in them

It is exactly the other way around. Most parts of the Christian Bible are based on older religions. There's hardly anything that cannot be traced back to earlier sources.

MP007:

Believe whatever u want to believe, all I know is that He died for my sins and rose to give me victory and eternal life, others things I don't know,

How sad. Ignorance has now become a virtue.

BASETSANA:

lf its not written in the bible then its NOT true!

True Christian epistemology. 

cgift:

The truth of the matter is, you cannot live the way yu like because there are consequences. You are just better off if u believe on Him because you ve got nothing to loose in the end if it happens that the whole thing is real. (if you prefer to have it told to you that way though.)

Another person mentioning Pascal's wager. No matter how many times that argument gets debunked it resurfaces again and again. This is probably one of the 'fitests' memes ever invented.
Let me just quote myself:

nferyn:

iyes link=topic=70354.msg1416520#msg1416520 date=1187727732:

BUT MY BROTHERLY ADVICE: IT'S BETTER TO AVOID BEING UNPLEASANTLY SURPRISED.

YOU REALLY HAVE NOTHING TO LOSE:

1. IF YOU BELIEVE, AND DIE TO FIND THAT THERE'S NO HEAVEN OR HELL. "NOTHING SPOIL"

2. BUT IF YOU DIE WITHOUT BELIEVING, AND DIE ONLY TO FIND OUT THAT THERE'S A HEAVEN AND HELL, KAI COLOSAL,IRRDEEMABLE AND IRREPAIRABLE LOSS.

THINK ABOUT THAT!

There really is nothing to think about. this is probably the most braindead argument ever invented in favor of God-belief. Shame on Blaise Pascal for ever coming up with his wager.
1. You cannot choose to believe. Belief is a consequence of exposure to data and conditioning. You don't have a direct control over what you believe.
2. Assuming you could choose to believe, the choice isn't really a 50/50 affair. There are literally thousands of mutually incompatible paths to different or the same god(s). The chance that a particular set of beliefs you choose is the correct one is really incredibly small if you put it in the form of a wager
3. You can take the consequences of that assumption even further: you can also conceive of a God that rewards intellectual honesty and punishes faith (i.e. belief without evidence)
4. It assumes that you have nothing to lose by belief, which doesn't even survive a cursory review. The average believer invests a significant amount of time/money/effort in his belief, resources that could be spent on far more productive activities.
5. The argument completely negates the negative psychological and social consequences of belief. History is rife with examples of people engaging in the most horrendous acts while being 'inspired' by religion. Belief also regularly acts as a sort of social sedative, making people passive and accepting of societal injustice

He is alive, He that was dead. He comes back and these things would judge everyman who have denied his existence in judgement.

Yes and then he will torture and burn those people in hell for eternity,

BUT HE LOVES US!

Reverend:

Yes and then he will torture and burn those people in hell for eternity,

BUT HE LOVES US!

Who said that young man? You of course. That is another topic entirely and do not try to deviate from the main issue. You will agree with me that there is power in that name. There is something spcial about it. You know it you just deny the obvious truth.

I dont not where you got your cconvictions about Christ being married from, they are lies from the pit of hell. One thing is sure, that name works wonders and the powers of darkness scream and bow at the mention of it. You can give it a try our reverred Kinky man. You would find out that you dont need to be sexually perversed, according to the meaning of the name of your church i bet you.

cheers!

@cgift

Power in what name?