Give your life to Christ Here

Jesus is the reason for life. No Jesus, No life. No matter the successes or reputations, without Jesus you are nothing. Sorry to say you are dead merely existing to be destroyed but God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

You might be comfortable and not see the need for Jesus as you might have all you need. But without Jesus you are like a chicken being fed and taken care of awaiting execution on Christmas day.

But you have a choice, the wealth or success you might be enjoying
without Jesus cannot be compared to one you will enjoy with Christ, it’s immeasurable. So you have a choice, choose life in Jesus. He is the way the truth and the life. With Him you have security and protection; money can’t buy you health or peace and protection. If money can buy you protection the past minister of Israel would not have been killed by a small boy.

If you have not accepted Jesus say this prayer with me. (Lord Jesus I believe that you are the savior of the world, I believe that you died for me and on the third day you rose again. I accept you into my life with joy, come into my life and forgive me from every sin, change my life and bless me thank you Lord in Jesus Precious name). You are free in Jesus name. you are blessed old things have passed away all things are new now, possess you possession in Jesus name, find a believing church to attend or if you do not know which one to go to I will suggest to you to attend the Living Faith Church(winners) where ever you might be. Be blessed.

UCHE OKOCHI
OMEGA WORLD NETWORK
+2348052773865

You are right

Give your life to Christ Here

Jesus is the reason for life. No Jesus, No life. No matter the successes or reputations, without Jesus you are nothing. Sorry to say you are dead merely existing to be destroyed but God is not willing that any should perish but that all should come to repentance.

But humans have existed , successfully, from the union of two people, Adam and his mate Eve! Thats wa avery very long time before Jesus can on the scene of mankind! In the time of Noah, as an example, many were perished and only those who survided along with Noah repopulated the earth! What role did Jesus place in the destruction of the many and the salvation of the very few that were saved under Noah? Zero!

And in the destructon of Pharaoh, did Jesus play any role? Was Jesus known at that time? No! And in that safe passage of Moses and the children of Israel through the sea, did Jesus entered into the equation? Again, no!

But even Jesus him was reported to have escape to Egypt at some point before the Bible reported that he was finally murdered! How is it possible that he is a giver of life, when he can not even preserve his own? You this guy, you need to reconstitute your thinking!

olabowale:

But humans have existed , successfully, from the union of two people, Adam and his mate Eve! Thats wa avery very long time before Jesus can on the scene of mankind! In the time of Noah, as an example, many were perished and only those who survided along with Noah repopulated the earth! What role did Jesus place in the destruction of the many and the salvation of the very few that were saved under Noah? Zero!

And in the destructon of Pharaoh, did Jesus play any role? Was Jesus known at that time? No! And in that safe passage of Moses and the children of Israel through the sea, did Jesus entered into the equation? Again, no!

But even Jesus him was reported to have escape to Egypt at some point before the Bible reported that he was finally murdered! How is it possible that he is a giver of life, when he can not even preserve his own? You this guy, you need to reconstitute your thinking!

I hate to get into all these religous fray because of all the dogmas involved.But do u rilly want us to get into this Bible/qouran debacle?It cld get down right nasty.So pls evry1 to his own.

As long as you are telling the truth and avoid personal attacks. I am not in the mood for childish plays. If you can back up your statements about Qur'an and or the Bible, am okay with it.

olabowale:

But humans have existed , successfully, from the union of two people, Adam and his mate Eve! Thats wa avery very long time before Jesus can on the scene of mankind! In the time of Noah, as an example, many were perished and only those who survided along with Noah repopulated the earth! What role did Jesus place in the destruction of the many and the salvation of the very few that were saved under Noah? Zero!

And in the destructon of Pharaoh, did Jesus play any role? Was Jesus known at that time? No! And in that safe passage of Moses and the children of Israel through the sea, did Jesus entered into the equation? Again, no!

But even Jesus him was reported to have escape to Egypt at some point before the Bible reported that he was finally murdered! How is it possible that he is a giver of life, when he can not even preserve his own? You this guy, you need to reconstitute your thinking!

What fact do you have to back up this statement.I would like to know the source of the information.
Waiting in anticipation.

olabowale:

But humans have existed , successfully, from the union of two people, Adam and his mate Eve! Thats wa avery very long time before Jesus can on the scene of mankind! In the time of Noah, as an example, many were perished and only those who survided along with Noah repopulated the earth! What role did Jesus place in the destruction of the many and the salvation of the very few that were saved under Noah? Zero!

And in the destructon of Pharaoh, did Jesus play any role? Was Jesus known at that time? No! And in that safe passage of Moses and the children of Israel through the sea, did Jesus entered into the equation? Again, no!

But even Jesus him was reported to have escape to Egypt at some point before the Bible reported that he was finally murdered! How is it possible that he is a giver of life, when he can not even preserve his own? You this guy, you need to reconstitute your thinking!

The above is nothing but an absolute display of ignorance concerning the person and personality of Jesus.

cold:

But do u rilly want us to get into this Bible/qouran debacle?It cld get down right nasty.

We've been there so many times in the past. You could try to reason with them yet again on the same recycled arguments and still get to see that nothing has changed.

dudu-bobo:

olabowale link=topic=170069.msg2784752#msg2784752 date=1221129462:

But humans have existed , successfully, from the union of two people, Adam and his mate Eve! Thats wa avery very long time before Jesus can on the scene of mankind! In the time of Noah, as an example, many were perished and only those who survided along with Noah repopulated the earth! What role did Jesus place in the destruction of the many and the salvation of the very few that were saved under Noah? Zero!

And in the destructon of Pharaoh, did Jesus play any role? Was Jesus known at that time? No! And in that safe passage of Moses and the children of Israel through the sea, did Jesus entered into the equation? Again, no!

But even Jesus him was reported to have escape to Egypt at some point before the Bible reported that he was finally murdered! How is it possible that he is a giver of life, when he can not even preserve his own? You this guy, you need to reconstitute your thinking!

The above is notthing but an absolute display of ignorance concerning the person and personality of Jesus.

It shows.

WISDOM IS THE PRINCIPAL THING ,WITH ALL YOUR GETTING GET UNDERSTANDING.
Without Jesus you are nothing.Have you not heard,have you not read that;
John 1
The Eternal Word
1 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2 He was in the beginning with God.
3 All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.
4 In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5 And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

35 Again, the next day, John stood with two of his disciples.
36 And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God!”
37 The two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38 Then Jesus turned, and seeing them following, said to them, “What do you seek?”
They said to Him, “Rabbi” (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), “where are You staying?”
39 He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where He was staying, and remained with Him
that day (now it was about the tenth hour).
40 One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.
41 He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ).
42 And he brought him to Jesus.

@Kola Oloye: « #5 on: Today at 12:20:19 PM »  

But even Jesus him was reported to have escape to Egypt at some point before the Bible reported that he was finally murdered! How is it possible that he is a giver of life, when he can not even preserve his own? You this guy, you need to reconstitute your thinking!

What fact do you have to back up this statement.I would like to know the source of the information.
Waiting in anticipation.

Read your bible. It is either that his mother, with the so called stepfather or earthly father, Joseph the capenter ran off with him. Or worse still when he was able to do it alone, somewhat older than an infant, did it on his own. Either way way we know that a life giver can not be running scared for his own life!

Kola, my man, read up on your Bible or just do goggle search on on the topic; Jesus escaped to Egypt or some thing like that. Or just say Jesus in Egypt. That should do it.

Am waiting for the man who wants to discuss Bible and or Qur'an! I wonder what shows?

olabowale:

@Kola Oloye: « #5 on: Today at 12:20:19 PM »
Read your bible. It is either that his mother, with the so called stepfather or earthly father, Joseph the capenter ran off with him. Or worse still when he was able to do it alone, somewhat older than an infant, did it on his own. Either way way we know that a life giver can not be running scared for his own life!

Conjecture without knowledge is a terrible waste of the mind.

olabowale:

Kola, my man, read up on your Bible or just do goggle search on on the topic; Jesus escaped to Egypt or some thing like that. Or just say Jesus in Egypt. That should do it.

Do you read the Bible yorself? At least we know that Google serves as your platform for misinformation - and we have seen you demonstrate it endlessly.

olabowale:

Am waiting for the man who wants to discuss Bible and or Qur'an! I wonder what shows?

We have been there before. . . what was the result? This endless "waiting" that never surfaces when simple questions are asked is nothing new.


By the way. . . where's littleb?

olabowale:

@Kola Oloye: « #5 on: Today at 12:20:19 PM »  
Read your bible. It is either that his mother, with the so called stepfather or earthly father, Joseph the capenter ran off with him. Or worse still when he was able to do it alone, somewhat older than an infant, did it on his own. Either way way we know that a life giver can not be running scared for his own life!

Kola, my man, read up on your Bible or just do goggle search on on the topic; Jesus escaped to Egypt or some thing like that. Or just say Jesus in Egypt. That should do it.

Am waiting for the man who wants to discuss Bible and or Qur'an! I wonder what shows?

Let us assume hypothetically that what u're sayin is tru.It is also in ur qor'an that  so called prophet (whateva his name is) also ran 4rm mecca to medina for his dear life,foisted his promiscuity on his followers & diguised it as a doctrine,sold his followers a dummy of "70 virgins per head" in aljanah & (let me pause for now & wait for the rejoinder)In any case if u nid more facts abt the greatest delusion in the history of mankind go read Salmon Rushdie's SATANIC VERSES

@Kola Oloye: « #8 on: Today at 12:39:42 PM »  

WISDOM IS THE PRINCIPAL THING ,WITH ALL YOUR GETTING GET UNDERSTANDING.
Without Jesus you are nothing.Have you not heard,have you not read that;
John 1
The Eternal Word
1   In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.
2   He was in the beginning with God.

This is your big ammonition, man? I am disappointed! And when this your "word,"was in the belly of his mother, was God Almighty "voiceless" then, without the ability to speak "words," anymore? Terribel presentation from you!

3   All things were made through Him, and without Him nothing was made that was made.

At least you are smart enough to delienate his none creative position. We would have to agree that the Creator who i also the Speaker of the word is greater than any creation and much more bigger than any word He speaks. Afterall He has to speak more words later!

But if I take my position from Islam, then we have to accept that the Creator did not create things because of Jesus but for exact purpose which He craeted each one of them. For example, Angels do not have free wills. They only serve the purpose as to the Will of the Creator. Whereas, genie (Satan is from this specie) and man have free wills. These two creations will be punished in hell fire injustice and the just punishment that they deserve for being disobedient to God's Will on them! How can you justify your claims then, when through obedience to, and the forgiveness from God on those who obey Him, that they will not be punished in Hell fire, but instead sent to paradise?

4   In Him was life, and the life was the light of men.
5   And the light shines in the darkness, and the darkness did not comprehend it.

Now that he is not here, what happened to the light? There is still the sun to illuminate the day time and the moon to light up the night time, along with the stars! The spiritual light is with the Creator alone. And Jesus is not it, because the Creator was, always will be!

35   Again, the next day, John stood with two of his disciples.
36   And looking at Jesus as He walked, he said, “Behold the Lamb of God!”

And God Almighty does not eat! Food is for humans. I don't know what you are driving at!

37   The two disciples heard him speak, and they followed Jesus.
38   Then Jesus turned, and seeing them following, said to them, “What do you seek?”
      They said to Him, “Rabbi” (which is to say, when translated, Teacher), “where are You staying?”
39    He said to them, “Come and see.” They came and saw where He was staying, and remained with Him
       that day (now it was about the tenth hour).
40   One of the two who heard John speak, and followed Him, was Andrew, Simon Peter’s brother.
41   He first found his own brother Simon, and said to him, “We have found the Messiah” (which is translated, the Christ).
42   And he brought him to Jesus.

And I also call Jesus Massiah to the children of Israel. Now that you have made your point, whats really your POINT?! You have said much, but this much; I put two fingertips so close to each other that there is no space between them!

Here is the conclusion of the whole matter.Sorry to say this; You don't have spiritual antennae at all.

cold:

Let us assume hypothetically that what u're sayin is tru.It is also in your qor'an that so called prophet (whateva his name is) also ran from mecca to medina for his dear life,foisted his promiscuity on his followers & diguised it as a doctrine,sold his followers a dummy of "70 virgins per head" in aljanah & (let me pause for now & wait for the rejoinder)In any case if u nid more facts about the greatest delusion in the history of mankind go read Salmon Rushdie's SATANIC VERSES

Muhammed, Rasullulah (p.b.u.h.) never claimed to be God and the Quran does not tell us that too, he, (p.b.u.h), was a human, a Prophet and messanger of God and he lived a fulfilled life as a human, messanger of God. The point here is that the person U claim is God, should not run for cover because God is a life giver and sustainer and is above everyone. Do you get the point?
Have U read the rejoinder to the book u mentioned?

No one is claiming here that Jesus is God. What we are saying is that He is the Messiah that was spoken of ,long time ago.
He was crucified for our sins. He is the only one that sits at the throne with the father.

He said, " in my fathers house are many mansions,i go,to prepare a place for you,after i shall return
to take you and be with me and my father. No other one has ever claimed such.

Except a man repent and be born again he/she cannot see the kingdom of God.
I REST MY CASE

zayhal:

Muhammed, Rasullulah (p.b.u.h.) never claimed to be God and the Quran does not tell us that too, he, (p.b.u.h), was a human, a Prophet and messanger of God and he lived a fulfilled life as a human, messanger of God. The point here is that the person You claim is God, should not run for cover because God is a life giver and sustainer and is above everyone. Do you get the point?
Have You read the rejoinder to the book u mentioned?

If he's a bloody human y d "peace be unto his name"crap or the so called "SAW".Besides u only touched on the human part,what abt the promiscuity & deceit part.What abt the routine stoning of the devil part that kills in thousands,What abt the fastin part-u eat by 4:30 in the mornin & wait till evenin that is nothin but 1-0-1.What abt the issues u hav wit the eclipse claimin it is as a result of the sinful deeds of infidels.Listen young man Islam is a hoax.

Jesus was born human in order to integrate with fellow mortals,the corollary therefore is that he even though the son of the living God had all the traits of a mortal.He was born in a manger to an everyday family,grew up like every mortal,suffered for our sins even though he was of no sin.In the end he was crucified & rose from the dead to prove he was the Messiah.
If u think this is mere history then i shldn't proceed any further.And no i havn't seen the rejoinder,i'd b happy if u can direct me on how to lay my hands on it.

zayhal:

Muhammed, Rasullulah (p.b.u.h.) never claimed to be God and the Quran does not tell us that too,

Muhammad never claimed to be God; but he denied the revelation of God as given to the prophets whom he claimed were sent by Allah.

zayhal:

he, (p.b.u.h), was a human, a Prophet and messanger of God and he lived a fulfilled life as a human, messanger of God.

So many have made the same claim after Muhammad: 'prophet(s) of God, . . . lived fulfilled life as human, . . . messenger(s) of God', blah. . . blah. It is one thing to claim to be a "prophet"; it is another thing to deny the very revelation of the same God who revealed Himself to the Biblical prophets.

zayhal:

The point here is that the person You claim is God, should not run for cover because God is a life giver and sustainer and is above everyone. Do you get the point?

I get the point. But the same 'god' in Islam who is said to be above all is also one that could complain bitterly that he was hurt by one of the nameless sons of Adam! I know this point is bitterly regretted by Muslims - and that is why many today are too scared to believe in the Hadiths.

zayhal:

Have You read the rejoinder to the book u mentioned?

No, I have not. But perhaps you could be sincere to clarify the relationship of al-manat, al-lat and al-uzza in Muhammad's confession before the story was edited in the Quran


You see, Christians do not need to try and give credit to their faith by running to the Quran for anything. On the other hand, it has always been the desire of Muslims buttress their religion from the same Bible they repudiate. Can you explain why this restlessness in Islam?

When a man is trying desperately to prove things and make others see things from his point of view, he is either wrong or he has misplaced priorities.

This thread is not about arguing things.

It seems some people are so miserable that they spend their time chasing what others believe. If you have a proper focus and direction in life, you wont be running after people who are going in other directions.

@cold,

cold:

If he's a bloody human y d "peace be unto his name"crap or the so called "SAW".Besides u only touched on the human part,what about the promiscuity & deceit part.

Please don't be disturbed or over-react by the silly things you read from these fellows.

We have argued endlessly about the same things you highlighted: some of the threads have been deleted; others locked; and yet others marked out as no-go areas. So, there's nothing new about these debates.

One can understand why the few muslims you see in the Christian childboard are only showing that they are not satisfied with their Islamic/Muslim childboard - which is a very, very good sign. . . because we can show them the truth they deny, shower love upon them, and constantly invite them to reason and enjoy the fellowship that they so miss in their own section. If they were satisfied with Islam, they would not be here. So let them come over and keep coming to prove their disatisfaction in their own quarters.

Cheers.

pilgrim.1:

@cold,

Please don't be disturbed or over-react by the silly things you read from these fellows.

We have argued endlessly about the same things you highlighted: some of the threads have been deleted; others locked; and yet others marked out as no-go areas. So, there's nothing new about these debates.

One can understand why the few muslims you see in the Christian childboard are only showing that they are not satisfied with their Islamic/Muslim childboard - which is a very, very good sign. . . because we can show them the truth they deny, shower love upon them, and constantly invite them to reason and enjoy the fellowship that they so miss in their own section. If they were satisfied with Islam, they would not be here. So let them come over and keep coming to prove their disatisfaction in their own quarters.
Cheers.

Exactly

@Cold: « #11 on: Today at 12:54:03 PM »  

Let us assume hypothetically that what u're sayin is tru.It is also in your qor'an that  so called prophet (whateva his name is) also ran from mecca to medina for his dear life,

He ran or left Makka to Madina. We all agreed. This is the nature of man. Just like Moses did, before him! This is nothing strange, since we are not calling Moses and especifically Muhammad (AS), a lord or god of any kind! But Muhammad left with all his followers, the muslims! He established a nation in Madina. And just like Moses return to Egypt, Muhammad returned to Makka. And just like before Moses left out of Egypt this time, with victory in hand, Muhammad did the same, leaving Makka , and went back to Madina with victory in hand, without a single Idol standing in the Vicinity of Kaaba! Now we have established the humanness of both Moses and Muhammad. What have we established from your Bible about Jesus, who you call, sometimes god, or son of god or human? Where do you stand, since no one can be god and man at the same time? Or father and son at the same time! God of Isreal was never a man and remain God at anytime! The Jews will laugh at you if you ever say it to their faces!

foisted his promiscuity on his followers & diguised it as a doctrine,sold his followers a dummy of "70 virgins per head" in aljanah & (let me pause for now & wait for the rejoinder)

If a man is a virgin at age 25, can he be considered a promiscous person? What if this man married a twice married, 15 years older woman with at least a child? Could he not be considered a very noble man, in the matter that he was not considered a person who break hearts? If this man continued to stay with the same woman until the woman passed away at when the man now turned at least 50. And if he never strayed in the 25 years they were together, can we say the man is not a faithful man? If the man didn't rush into marrying a woman right away. And he has been a prophet with some followership for at leats 10 years. Will you then say that he was promiscous, when he finally married many wives? But in all his life, he never stopped talking about his first wife and never slept with a woman who he was not legally married to, all his life! And if he were to marry a virgin, he continued to say to this young virgin woman that his late wife was like truly is only wife, since she was the the first one to believe his prophethood and supported his effort with all that she got! How many of us that can match this description? Are you from West Africa man? Whatever you tribe, just image yourself at 25.

Were you a virgin? How many 40 year old that may want you that you will consider her as a potential wife, without first taking advantage of her, espectially when she was twice married with some children? Your reason for shunning her will not be because she is ugly n your eye, and, that you are two handsome for her. The reason is that you see her being over the hills. (Sorry 40 year old ladies in the house. Reality is reality. At my age, and I am alot older than 40, I will want alot younger women, say in their 20s, who can excite me).

So when you are criticizing a prophet of God, who says that all his statements are revlelations from God, then you may have to reconsider your stand. First if a human being have written the Book called Qur'an, I can not see him or his followers not give him the credit for the material! We see that the Jews say that the Torah is written by Moses. And the Christians say that the Gospel was the statements and preachings of Jesus. The Christian never forget to attach the name of the Gospel writers (Mark, Luke, John and matthew!). The hindu says that their book is also written by their founder. So do the Buhhdists!

But Muhammad said the Qur'an is from Allah (God in Arabic language being his mother tongue). The muslims all these many century never say that a single letter is from Muhammad from the Qur'an! It may be that you have difficulty with this bit of honesty. So I now ask you: What was the benefit that Muhammad (AS) derived from giving God the Glory and not keeping it for himself? Please consider that in the Qur'an, you will find verses or at least a verse where he was commanded thus "Say (Muhammad), I am just a human being like you! Or where he would be commanded, "Say (Muhammad) I am a human prophet to you all, I ask for no benefit but to deliver the message and a warn you". There are many more. I guess you can find out on your own and don't let any deceiver, a helper of the devil, either male of female on Nairaland or not on nairaland deceive you.

Finally Muhammad died as a very poor man, after his people had even said to him that they will make him the wealthiest, their King, and their leader if only he stopped the propagation of this religion amog them! They asked him before hand that they will give him from every clan, the best of their woman, if only he can stop the propagation of the religion. In both cases he refused. And I must add that before he was a prophet he was a successful trader. But after he became a prophet, in a span of 23 years, he died without leaving any wealth behind, for the only surviving child, Fatima! Where are you going with your argument, again!

In any case if u nid more facts about the greatest delusion in the history of mankind go read Salmon Rushdie's SATANIC VERSES

I know about Salman Rushdie, the persian or indian! I will tell you a person who is worse than him; Muhma Gaddahfi of Libya! Gaddahfi wrote his own Qur'an. He did away with the Qul (say) in the Qur'an. He said that it only addressed prophet Muhammad! Yet, no one has paid any mind to him. You know why, because the muslims know the truth. It is apparent he was not telling the truth.

The case of Rushdie is different because he wrapped his lies with the best fabrics and scented with the best sweet smelling fragrance. People like you accepted it as the truth. I know better. I have been a muslim, longer than I have been alive. My soul was a muslim soul the moment it was removed from the body of Adam! Thats long time before Ibrahim (AS) was on this earth. Infact it was before Adam and Eve had the tree in the garden experience, which resulted into their expulsion! Should I listen to the demented Rushdie or Gaddahfi? The answer is NO! I know better. I do not have to have "Interpretation," in order to understand the verses of the Qur'an. Alhamdulillah. Now where do you want us to go with the conversation, my brother from Adam?

cold:

If he's a bloody human y d "peace be unto his name"crap or the so called "SAW".Besides u only touched on the human part,what about the promiscuity & deceit part.What about the routine stoning of the devil part that kills in thousands,What about the fastin part-u eat by 4:30 in the mornin & wait till evenin that is nothin but 1-0-1.What about the issues u hav wit the eclipse claimin it is as a result of the sinful deeds of infidels.Listen young man Islam is a hoax.

Jesus was born human in order to integrate with fellow mortals,the corollary therefore is that he even though the son of the living God had all the traits of a mortal.He was born in a manger to an everyday family,grew up like every mortal,suffered for our sins even though he was of no sin.In the end he was crucified & rose from the dead to prove he was the Messiah.
If u think this is mere history then i shldn't proceed any further.And no i havn't seen the rejoinder,i'D b happy if u can direct me on how to lay my hands on it.

Why are U getting so hot? I only responded to what you posted. If U need answers to the other issues you raised, why not create a thread and we'll discuss this better. Or betterstill, learn about Islam objectively and see the beauty therein.

pilgrim.1:

@cold,

Please don't be disturbed or over-react by the silly things you read from these fellows.

We have argued endlessly about the same things you highlighted: some of the threads have been deleted; others locked; and yet others marked out as no-go areas. So, there's nothing new about these debates.

One can understand why the few muslims you see in the Christian childboard are only showing that they are not satisfied with their Islamic/Muslim childboard - which is a very, very good sign. . . because we can show them the truth they deny, shower love upon them, and constantly invite them to reason and enjoy the fellowship that they so miss in their own section. If they were satisfied with Islam, they would not be here. So let them come over and keep coming to prove their disatisfaction in their own quarters.

Cheers.

Funny, aren't U? Can U boast of never going to the Islamic forum at any time. Are u unaware of the number of Christaians who parade the Islamic forum and hardly leaves there? Do we say U and these others are tired of Christainity and the lack of fellowship in d christain forum?

kola oloye:

No one is claiming here that Jesus is God. What we are saying is that He is the Messiah that was spoken of ,long time ago.
He was crucified for our sins. He is the only one that sits at the throne with the father.

He said, " in my fathers house are many mansions,i go,to prepare a place for you,after i shall return
to take you and be with me and my father. No other one has ever claimed such.

Except a man repent and be born again he/she cannot see the kingdom of God.
I REST MY CASE

Did I hear U say no one is claiming that Jesus is God? Then that must be a new development. Consult with fellow christains and they'll tell he's God. Or do U have a different ideology? where exactly do U stand?

« #17 on: Today at 02:05:35 PM »  

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Quote from: zayhal on Today at 01:37:47 PM
Muhammed, Rasullulah (p.b.u.h.) never claimed to be God and the Quran does not tell us that too,

Muhammad never claimed to be God; but he denied the revelation of God as given to the prophets whom he claimed were sent by Allah.


Quote from: zayhal on Today at 01:37:47 PM
he, (p.b.u.h), was a human, a Prophet and messanger of God and he lived a fulfilled life as a human, messanger of God.

So many have made the same claim after Muhammad: 'prophet(s) of God, . . . lived fulfilled life as human, . . . messenger(s) of God', blah. . . blah. It is one thing to claim to be a "prophet"; it is another thing to deny the very revelation of the same God who revealed Himself to the Biblical prophets.


Quote from: zayhal on Today at 01:37:47 PM
The point here is that the person You claim is God, should not run for cover because God is a life giver and sustainer and is above everyone. Do you get the point?

I get the point. But the same 'god' in Islam who is said to be above all is also one that could complain bitterly that he was hurt by one of the nameless sons of Adam! I know this point is bitterly regretted by Muslims - and that is why many today are too scared to believe in the Hadiths.


Quote from: zayhal on Today at 01:37:47 PM
Have You read the rejoinder to the book u mentioned?

No, I have not. But perhaps you could be sincere to clarify the relationship of al-manat, al-lat and al-uzza in Muhammad's confession before the story was edited in the Quran


You see, Christians do not need to try and give credit to their faith by running to the Quran for anything. On the other hand, it has always been the desire of Muslims buttress their religion from the same Bible they repudiate. Can you explain why this restlessness in Islam?

No wonder some people would leave Islam, since they do not know the difference between purity and what has been compromised with other materials. If a groover were to squeeze Oranges in a pitcher. If somebody were to add the juice Mango to it, can we say that we now have pure orange juice in the pitcher? The answer will be NO! Even though the color will remain orangey. But it will be fuller getting to the brim, depending on the amount of Mango juice added. When it is observe with naked eyes, one may not be able to see any Mango substance. But when you smell it, the Orange smell will not be as sharp and crisp! When it is tasted, the Mangoy taste can not be masked away.

In the casual observations of the Bible, one see the hands of non-prophet authors; Mark, Luke, Matthew and John. One sees materials that are post Jesus; Acts of Apostles, Revelations, The letters. In the letters we see that these were opinions of ordinary men, Paul who use to be saul, is a very good example. The trick he devised was splice all of his writing with what may be considered some statement from Jesus! These Books, in the New Testament can never be called words of God, or can they?

NO one, including the Angels can hurt Allah the Almighty God! Allah says hurt to mean in intensed disappointment He feels from the selfishness of the children of Adam, who see that they are favored and under the mercy while others are in trial.

The ones are favored and enjoying the mercy of god do not do anything to aleviate the condition of the ones in trial, for the pleaseure of the One who has favored and shown them mercy. This is what is meant. I guess no one have heard the expression, "I was hurt," before? Yet the speaker of the hurt was just expression to his/her audience that there was disappointment in the behavior which was expressed in a way to show that it was not expected!

Those who wish to guide themselves will do so. But those who wish to be fast and loose, lacking the patience to seek some beneficial understanding will respond in carefree ways, anyhow. There will be surprise on the day that is certain when Jesus will say to the Christians, "I do not know you!"

This is what Olabowale loves so much to do - to be given a little opportunity to spew such a vast encyclopedia of . . . absolutely nothing!

However, since he always makes some very interesting claims, I take it that the gentelman could be forgiven for simply not knowing anything about what he claims. It happenz! But before he wonders any further, let me give a small example:

olabowale:

He ran or left Makka to Madina. We all agreed. This is the nature of man. Just like Moses did, before him! This is nothing strange, since we are not calling Moses and especifically Muhammad (AS), a lord or god of any kind!

Uhm. . . hold on a minute, alhaji!   This is funny. . . who are you trying to deceive, eh?

First of all, who is included in the "we" in your statement that "we are not calling" Muhammad a "a lord" of any kind? Just who are the "we"? Is it not an open truth that MUSLIMS are the ones calling Muhammad "Lord"?

Hold on small nah. . . make I land!

Yes, Muslims refer to Muhammad as "Lord"!

I'm not whipping this up; but indeed Muslims are the ones who have been calling Muhammad "Lord". Before I became a Christian, I came face to face with so many shades and denominations within Islam that refer to Muhammad as "Lord" - although as a non-Muslim who tries to confront them with the fact, they will categorically deny it!

However, let me give you guys a few examples of direct quotes from Muslim websites just so you see the fact:

[list][list][li]Daily Wird After Fajr and Magrib
“O Allah bless our liege lord Muhammad, your Servant and Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, and his folk and Companions, and grant them peace”.
source: [url=http://home.hixnet.co.za/qs/Preliminary%20dates%20for%20Shaykh%20Hazim%20in%20SA_files/Daily%20Wird.htm]see it here[/url] [/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Send peace from us to our liege-lord and master Muhammad.
O Allah, bless our liege-lord and master Muhammad the master of the First and the Last.
O Allah, bless our liege-lord and master Muhammad at every moment and every instant.
source: read more here [/li][/list][/list]

[list][list][li]Islamic Supreme Council of America
Praise be to Allah, Lord of all the worlds, Who, through His Eternal Word, does not cease to be praised: We further bear witness that our liege-lord Muhammad r is the Perfected (‘insanu-l-kamil) Worshipper (`abdu-l-llah), His Slave and the Final Prophet and Messenger chosen from the seed of pure nobility, selected from a family of honor whose virtues falls short of describing.
source: Islamic Supreme Council of America [/li][/list][/list]

In more serious cases, I know of Muslims who have offered rites in worship to Muhammad - but that would be for later (as Muslims are very careful to not publish this in English on the internet).

The point is simple: Olabowale cannot claim that Muslims never refer to Muhammad as a "Lord" of any kind! That is simply not true! Only people who never know will believe such childish claims.

@Olabowale,

olabowale:

No wonder some people would leave Islam, since they do not know the difference between purity and what has been compromised with other materials.

Well, I chose to leave Islam when I discovered that most Muslims are prone to dirty thinking. . they see "sex" in almost everything even when it is not there. Talk about "purity", you don't qualify to discuss the subject, please.

olabowale:

If a groover were to squeeze Oranges in a pitcher. If somebody were to add the juice Mango to it, can we say that we now have pure orange juice in the pitcher? The answer will be NO! Even though the color will remain orangey. But it will be fuller getting to the brim, depending on the amount of Mango juice added. When it is observe with naked eyes, one may not be able to see any Mango substance. But when you smell it, the Orange smell will not be as sharp and crisp! When it is tasted, the Mangoy taste can not be masked away.

Good analogy that applies to the Quran. Well done. With all the squeezing and juicy stories made up in the things we read about your claims, we must have a delicious reason as to why the hadiths reveal the real character of Muhammad.

olabowale:

In the casual observations of the Bible, one see the hands of non-prophet authors; Mark, Luke, Matthew and John. One sees materials that are post Jesus; Acts of Apostles, Revelations, The letters. In the letters we see that these were opinions of ordinary men, Paul who use to be saul, is a very good example. The trick he devised was splice all of his writing with what may be considered some statement from Jesus! These Books, in the New Testament can never be called words of God, or can they?

Lol. . . these books can be hated by Muslims today - but it was the very same books that the Quran claims allah sent down. Talking about your hatred for Paul and the other disciples, please ask yourself where Muhammad got his idea of a "trumpet" that shall sound at the return of Christ. Is it not from the same epistles of the apostles? I sorry for you, but such is life.

Come closer and enjoy fellowship - we have so much to offer for the lack you experience in your own Muslim section. Welcome again.

olabowale:

NO one, including the Angels can hurt Allah the Almighty God! Allah says hurt to mean in intensed disappointment He feels from the selfishness of the children of Adam, who see that they are favored and under the mercy while others are in trial.

Hold ona minute. If "allah" was above every need, above every person, above every thing past feeling or weakness, what was he doing with "intense disappointment"? A being who claims to be above all is not supposed to be expressing disappointment (actually, hurt was the word)? Why should he be complaining about being "hurt" in anyway?

So, allah can be "intensely disappointed" hurt but you have aproblem with Genesis where the word "rest" is used to express God's satisfaction after the creation? Please throw this mind games where the belong - to the recycling bin. Allah said he was "hurt". QED.

olabowale:

The ones are favored and enjoying the mercy of god do not do anything to aleviate the condition of the ones in trial, for the pleaseure of the One who has favored and shown them mercy. This is what is meant.

And what more have you added to the confusion, sir?

olabowale:

I guess no one have heard the expression, "I was hurt," before? Yet the speaker of the hurt was just expression to his/her audience that there was disappointment in the behavior which was expressed in a way to show that it was not expected!

Why would allah be complaining about being "hurt" if he was indeed above the feelings of humanity? If men say they can be hurt, and Muslims say that allah is above that, why was he yet complaining like the rest of men who can be hurt? You are not making any sense at all - just excuses after your swollen pride.

But sir, I must remark that you are different from other Muslims with whom I discussed this point. They all denied the hadith ever said so - but you have been kind to not deny it but acknowledge it is so. For that, I commend you.

olabowale:

Those who wish to guide themselves will do so. But those who wish to be fast and loose, lacking the patience to seek some beneficial understanding will respond in carefree ways, anyhow.

I agree, sir. That is because you have been playing the fast and loose track all along and never been patient to seek some beneficial understanding in the teachings of the prophets.

olabowale:

There will be surprise on the day that is certain when Jesus will say to the Christians, "I do not know you!"

Wrong again - that is what you wish; but nowhere is it taught that Christ will deny those who are Christians.

@zayhal,

zayhal:

Why are You getting so hot? I only responded to what you posted. If You need answers to the other issues you raised, why not create a thread and we'll discuss this better. Or betterstill, learn about Islam objectively and see the beauty therein.

No one should be hotheaded here - good advice, and I've always called for reason in discussions. However, I've also studied Islam with serious objectivity rather than hotheadeness - I still haven't had reasonable responses from those I discuss with. I don't mind being invited to another thread to rub minds with you on the same issues, though.

zayhal:

Funny, aren't You? Can You boast of never going to the Islamic forum at any time.

Lol. . . I'm not being funny; and yes, I haven't been to the "Islamic" forum on Nairaland since it was created. There was no such "Islamic forum" when I joined Nairaland; but I missed hugely while I was on break and didn't realize what must have happened for the divide! You can check for yourself and see.

Besides, I don't miss anything from that section, that's why you guys continue to visit here for what you cannot find in your sections. Please stay long enough and enjoy!

zayhal:

Are u unaware of the number of Christaians who parade the Islamic forum and hardly leaves there? Do we say You and these others are tired of Christainity and the lack of fellowship in d christain forum?

What do we lack, please tell us. Is it the dissatisfaction manifested in the misrepresentations Muslims often make about issues they can't defend? The callous misrepresentations? Hmmm. . . na wah O!

zayhal:

Did I hear You say no one is claiming that Jesus is God? Then that must be a new development. Consult with fellow christains and they'll tell he's God. Or do You have a different ideology? where exactly do You stand?

Oh, I left Islam for many things - part of which was the inability of Muslims to defend the idea that the Torah and Injil were lost. It is because they cannot handle what is taught by the Biblical prophets, that is why they can make huge claims that they know deed in their hearts are not true.

A one liner will not be sufficient to deal with matters of religion. A person who left Islam because he/she believed that islam talks too much about sex must be expected to remain a virgin, if yet unmarried. Afterall, as bad, sexually Islam is, I know men who are in 30s and 40s who are still virgins. And thy live in the city of New YOrk. The Americans who will engage in all types of sex at a drop of a hat, are now chase men and women!

I hope that a woman or man would not expect spouses not to engage in legally acceptable sex in their own space. I live in NYC, and I know what amount of women that could have been available to me if i were not muslim! Afterall, I am a Yoruba man, and i know about the sexuality of african men with their african women counterpart!

But the Qur'an frowns against Zina! The punishment for it still stands, even till today. I wonder what company a person was keeping in Islam that will mke them leave it to a Tahgut! Well, if one left Islam for christianity, where the worst kind of behavior, including unmarried sexual activities can be forgiven by just mere believing in the death of a man on the cross, I wonder if such a person is sincere!

How do you leave a camp where the rule is strict, with even stricter rulings of an offense, to another camp where everything and anything is okay, as long as one believes in the death of an innocent man? Wow! This is far out. I have heard every lame excuses, this is the lamest, yet! What deters a christian from engaging in sex? Conscience alone?

That can do it, if you mix a little alcohol here and there with some music. The end result is always the same. Something is bound to happen, because the senses are dulled to sillyness! But in the Qur'an, the warning is there against sex and at least intosticants! You are supposed to be away of your situations, all the time.

I will not claim that muslims dont participate in things that are against the commandment of Allah and the sunnah of the Prophet (AS). Thats why we have 73 divisions. But one will go to paradise, directly, while the rest and all the others among mankind will head to hellfire! Should we not be concerned about the fire created to punish when the fire we have on earth is to benefit us, but yet it burns terrible if one have the wrong contact with it!

I remember that Muhammad (as) said to people do not praise me, as the the Christians have praised son of mary and then they began to give him a wrong title. But then we find that some people still go against Muhammad's instructions to them! Should this people be considered muslims, especialy when they call him  some lord or some god? They are not to, but they can continue to bear the label, which many who are clearly not muslims have continued to cling to. If a person created a lord or god for himself, should he not be punished since this will will clearly go against Allah's order and descriptions: Remember Surah Iklas?

The benefit of being alive is that there is opportunity to repent. I ask everyone not allow a group or a person to be the shaitan that gets him out of Islam. I see many things muslims do which are clearly against islam. But should I abandone Islam for what religion: Christianity with its Trinity or Judaism with its tribal GOd? Never! I advise everyone not to be deluded and allow shaitan to come in form of familiar faces and send them to the fire of hell!

All glory is due to Allah. May His Mercy be upon His slave and servant the unlettered Prophet/Messenger, Muhammad bin Abdallah (AS). I am saying to everyone that there is a Creator; Allah. Everything else is creation and they all depend on HIM!

@Olabowale,

olabowale:

A one liner will not be sufficient to deal with matters of religion. A person who left Islam because he/she believed that islam talks too much about sex must be expected to remain a virgin, if yet unmarried. Afterall, as bad, sexually Islam is, I know men who are in 30s and 40s who are still virgins. And thy live in the city of New YOrk. The Americans who will engage in all types of sex at a drop of a hat, are now chase men and women!

It is true that one-liners do not establish matters of religion - but is that not what you been trying to smuggle in through the back door forever? And talking about 30s and 40s remaining virgins, good for them; but such people do not run their minds in the mud to dirty talk the way you do, sir.

olabowale:

I hope that a woman or man would not expect spouses not to engage in legally acceptable sex in their own space. I live in NYC, and I know what amount of women that could have been available to me if i were not muslim! Afterall, I am a Yoruba man, and i know about the sexuality of african men with their african women counterpart!

Alhaji, please be mature and honest. This is not about marital issues. The point of reference has been on your propensity to always drag your mind to sex in every line you read about the prophets teachings. So this exculpation you're trying here is a weak device of distraction. You will do better if you do a little mind-cleaning.

olabowale:

But the Qur'an frowns against Zina! The punishment for it still stands, even till today. I wonder what company a person was keeping in Islam that will mke them leave it to a Tahgut! Well, if one left Islam for christianity, where the worst kind of behavior, including unmarried sexual activities can be forgiven by just mere believing in the death of a man on the cross, I wonder if such a person is sincere!

No matter what allegations you make, they do not change the facts, and by forcefully making such false claims you make the matter worse for your case - because again it shows that honesty is a scarce commodity in your writings.

olabowale:

How do you leave a camp where the rule is strict, with even stricter rulings of an offense, to another camp where everything and anything is okay, as long as one believes in the death of an innocent man? Wow! This is far out.

In Christianity, things are stricter than in Islam. The difference is that we don't bend the necks of people with a knife to their throats when they choose to go elsewhere - judgement is in God's hands, and not in man's.

olabowale:

I have heard every lame excuses, this is the lamest, yet! What deters a christian from engaging in sex? Conscience alone?

It is not about engaging in sex - it is rather your dirty mind that is a put-off. If dirty talking is all that you enjoy in Islam, I'm glad I left and never hope to return.

olabowale:

That can do it, if you mix a little alcohol here and there with some music. The end result is always the same. Something is bound to happen, because the senses are dulled to sillyness!

I know - and I've actually seen the effect among Muslims, believe me!

olabowale:

But in the Qur'an, the warning is there against sex and at least intosticants! You are supposed to be away of your situations, all the time.

If there is such warning against sex in the Qur'an, how come you have never been able to follow that warning? How come the warnings in the Quran are not able to heal your mindset from such dirty talk, sir?

olabowale:

I will not claim that muslims don't participate in things that are against the commandment of Allah and the sunnah of the Prophet (AS).

Okay, that just seals the concrete fact!

olabowale:

Thats why we have 73 divisions. But one will go to paradise, directly, while the rest and all the others among mankind will head to hellfire! Should we not be concerned about the fire created to punish when the fire we have on earth is to benefit us, but yet it burns terrible if one have the wrong contact with it!

Sad, sad division. I thought that Islam was never meant to experience such things - and which one of those 73 divisions is going to escape the hell promised by allah? This is like hopelessly repeating the same thing and shouting it from the minaret in hope that your skin will not be charred. I wish you a tall hope.

olabowale:

I remember that Muhammad (as) said to people do not praise me, as the the Christians have praised son of mary and then they began to give him a wrong title.

Muhammad had no reason to hate Jews and Christians.

@Olabowale,

olabowale:

But then we find that some people still go against Muhammad's instructions to them! Should this people be considered muslims, especialy when they call him some lord or some god?

Sir Dr. Alhaji . . . please tell the truth and put the devil to shame! You categorically claimed that Muslims ("we" never refer to Muhammad as a Lord of any kind! That was your claim - and I only showed that you were trying to deceive the simpletons who swallow your remarks gullibly without knowing any better!

olabowale:

They are not to, but they can continue to bear the label, which many who are clearly not muslims have continued to cling to.

It is not in your place to deny others their right to be called "Muslims". If they say they are muslims, then they are such. This exculpation is simply a convenience game that borders on altaqiyya.

olabowale:

If a person created a lord or god for himself, should he not be punished since this will will clearly go against Allah's order and descriptions: Remember Surah Iklas?

Lol. . . who are you now complaining to. . . me? Lol, sorry sir - I'm not the one calling Muhammad a "Lord", so please talk to your own people at the I[/b]slamic [b]S[/b]upreme [b]C[/b]ouncil of [b]A[/b]merica, afterall you can easily reach them from NY!

olabowale:

The benefit of being alive is that there is opportunity to repent. I ask everyone not allow a group or a person to be the shaitan that gets him out of Islam.

Why are you suddenly shivering with this panic-measure? When people wey no dey rest continue to come here and read your false claim, it will get them thinking. . . and sooner than later, they will leave your Islam in "peace" for you. So please keep coming back and let's help them see how seriously flawed are your presumptions.

olabowale:

I see many things [b]muslims do which are clearly against islam.

Thank goodness you called them "muslims" - and it is now clear that "muslims" do not obey their own religion. Thank you sir.

olabowale:

But should I abandone Islam for what religion: Christianity with its Trinity or Judaism with its tribal GOd? Never!

But wait O, alhaji. . . the "tribal" God of Judaism is clearly respected in the Quran. Should I put you to the test? Remember, I said that everytime you make a false claim, I'll lovingly expose it gabadaya!

olabowale:

I advise everyone not to be deluded and allow shaitan to come in form of familiar faces and send them to the fire of hell!

Amen. Nobody should be deluded by your false claims, sir.

olabowale:

All glory is due to Allah. May His Mercy be upon His slave and servant the unlettered Prophet/Messenger, Muhammad bin Abdallah (AS). I am saying to everyone that there is a Creator; Allah. Everything else is creation and they all depend on HIM!

Even with that doxology, it is still Muslims who refer to Muhammad as "Lord".