Seun

seun

seun

how many times i call u?

4get_me,

U still have not answered my question. How can I tell who a Christian is? From all that I have read, they all seem to be getting their directions from the Bible. So why is one wrong and the other right?


Lioness,

U still have not answered my question. And what has Seun got to do with this thread?

@Darkchild,

I'm not standing brief for 4get_me, but I think his response was to the point. It's just as well the same thing in asking who a true Muslim is - do we take all that is done in the name of "Allah" and the Qur'an as authentic Islam just because suicide bombers dress in Qur'anic motifs and recite ayah or suras during their operations? I guess not. A true Christian is one who believes in Jesus Christ as Lord and Saviour and applies His teachings in his or her life. Perhaps you may wish to recast your question if that answer does not suffice.

@ Darkchild

Okay am not so clear about these "types of christain" but a christain is a christain.

IF you really want to know about christainity, you would have to live it and practice it not just being taught or told the difference. Christainity is a way of life, not just religion. Its your living and all. SO YOU CAN LEARN AND UNDERSTAND MORE WHEN YOU BECOME ONE.

So do you want to give your live to Christ now?

Darkchild:

4get_me,

U still have not answered my question. How can I tell who a Christian is? From all that I have read, they all seem to be getting their directions from the Bible. So why is one wrong and the other right?

Well,,,,,,,,,,, same reason your asking about the trinity?

Darkchild:

Lioness,

out of curiousity, why did u want to know my religion? Honestly.

KAG: He's a Muslim - I'm 95% certain.

Darkchild:
KAG,

don't bet your life on it. U might just have it no mo'.

Darkchild: Lioness,

to answer your Question, I am a Muslim.

I'm not one for pointing out when I had something right (no, really. Ignore the green fella with his tongue out), so I guess I'll end with there are Chistian apologists on this site, so no need to don my already defunct apologist hat - not that I would have anyway.

I knew that was coming.  Sometimes one can't imagine how prophetic things turn out. But there again, I'm just being facetious - nothing big to it. 

@ Darkchild
Are you really a muslim? or you're just claiming to be one just to throw people off on who you really are?

@ Lioness
With all love, i don't agree that "a Christian is a Christian." That someone goes to church RELIGIOUSLY on Sundays don't make him one!

A "True " Christian is one who believes in God, and believes Jesus (Who is Himself God as He hails from God) is the Son of God, who died and rose again. Not only does this one believe this in his heart, but has confessed the Lordship of Jesus with his mouth (Rom 10:9), not only has this one confessed and accepted Christ, but he is a person who follows after Christ--keeping His commandments (not the 10 commandments by the way). He is also one who believes the Bible in its entirety is the word of God.

2 Sundays back i heard an analogy of the trinity, it was so simple it made sense. God indeed is one, same way you and I are one person, but have different roles we play. You can be a child to your parents, a spouse, and if you've got kids--a parent. That doesn't mean you're three persons, it simply means at these functions, you operate differently. You can't be a spouse to your children (although, we see it these days, where parents are commiting incest). I believe it's God's ability to multi-function that gives us the ability to do same. It's the simplest analogy i could point to.

The trinity is not something you try to figure out--it's something you experience. So, Darkchild, do you want to experience it? like Lioness said: "do you want to give your life to Christ now?" i am 100% an experience with Jesus will answer your question.

dearzi,

and why would I claim to be something that I am not? I don't see the reason behind your insinuation.

Gwaine, KAG, 4get_me, Lioness et al,

How do I, a muslim or infact any non - christian, tell a 'real' christian from a 'fake' christian?

If the answers already provided are not sufficient or have not addressed a particular aspect of your concern, then perhaps you need to expatiate a bit more on your question.

Gwaine,

I believe my question is as str8 forward as can be. However, I will try to expansiate.

4get_me, in one of his early threads, wrote that,

'Unitarianism does not hold a stable belief in God, Jesus or the Bible - and therefore is not regarded as authentically 'Christian'.

The above statement got me a bit confused about christianity and i need some clarification, because the Unitarians would also say same about people who believe in the trinity. In essence, which of the above types of 'christians' should
i believe?

@Darkchild,

I believe 4get_me's answer was straight forward as well - anyone who parades himself or herself as a Christian and does not hold to the basic beliefs of the confession of the Christian faith in the Bible is NOT a Christian. It is the same thing as saying that a Muslim is not one until he believes in the tenets of Islam.

On the issue of the Trinity, some who don't want to see Jesus for who He says He is would rather present a soft-sell 'Gospel' (which is no Gospel at all but a perversion of true Biblical faith). The one thing to realise is that it is not evangelical Christians of the 21st century that are trying to make a deity out of Jesus - it is the Biblical faith and confession that recognizes Jesus for who He Himself said He is - the Son of God. A so-called Christian who believes anything about Jesus but denies what He said He was and is - that kind of "Christian" is no Christian by what Jesus said.

I hope this helps.

So, whatever group is advertising themselves as "Christian" and re-writing the image and person of the Son of God into something else - that group is NOT Christian by God's Word.

The concept of the Holy Trinity may perhaps also be mirrored in another Christian belief that applies to the self - that we exist as triune beings as well - spirit, soul and body. This may also be explained when God made man (spirit), formed him from the clay(body) and breathed into him (soul). [Gen 1:26, 2:7]

My spirit is the person that proceeds from God, returns to God, and through which I experience God, who Himself is a Spirit.

I find it extremely difficult - nay, impossible - to explain spiritual experiences to the natural mind. This is mainly for the simple reason that the spirit is infinitely sensible, and can experience dimensions that are impossible for the flesh to concieve. In the spirit realm, mathematics, cosmology, and the most difficult concepts to grasp in the human sphere of thinking, are but a minuscule part of the zillion things comprehended in a fraction of a moment. In the spirit realm, things that do not make sense to the physical mind make perfect and complete sense. Simply put, there are things that are understood and experienced in the spirit that are impossible for the flesh to comprehend. I have myself found that, after some such experiences, when I awake and am fully returned to my natural sense, I realise that the concept that made perfect sense to me a short while before then no longer made any sense to me. This will perhaps help you to appreciate how difficult it was for the bible prophets to articulate their visions of God (not that they could completely describe what it was they saw, anyway). In Paul's case, when he awoke from his vision, he no longer could tell whether it happened physically or not (2Cor 12: 1-5).

My soul is the seat of my emotions, reasoning and mental faculty - the mind, if you like.

My body is my flesh, and is the house or temple of my physical faculties that ensure that I can interact with my physical environment.

You must have noticed that I use the term 'my spirit' - in the same way that someone would say, 'my mind tells me',  or 'my heart tells me',  or 'my body feels', and so forth.

Does that in any way imply that I am three persons? When you look at me, you see my flesh - my body. When you interact with me, you interact with all three - spirit, soul and body, depending on the means and degree of interaction.

This certainly isn't an explanation of the Holy Trinity - it is an exercise in futility to try to force spiritual things to make sense in the natural. They don't.

I just hope you can see the analogy.

@ Darkchild
I didn't mean any offense by asking for the genuity of your religion. I wanted to be sure you were not trying to be funny,or trying to shy away. It was just a question of clarification.
I still stand by it, that THE ONLY WAY to understand the trinity is by experiencing it for yourself. No answer we will give you will satisfy you. Some people here will write based on what they understand, have been told, or have read, but there are others who can tell you from experience, and that my brother is the only way you can understand the trinity. No amount of doctrine we give you will satisfy you, because, whether you like to admit it or not, or you claim there's just this need to know/ understand/ or want to dispute (or whatever your reason is), there is a vacuum inside of you that is yearning for THE truth, and my dear it is Jesus--He is truth. Just experience Him, after your experience with Him, come back and answer your question, for by then you will have your answer.

On the issue of the Trinity, it's ONE God operating in the 3 offices (1 John 5:7) i love the Amplified translation and the KJV

"So there are three witnesses [b]in heaven: the Father, the Word and the Holy Spirit, and these three are One" 1 John 5:7 (Amp)

Na waoo.
This thread get as e be

@Darkchild, have you fully understood the mystery of the holy trinity?

three people in one. that's what it's all about! hence the name TRINITY!!

@Lioness
Why you talk so?

nothing o.
My talk sabi comot world war,,,,,,,,,,, so nothing

@darkchild

so that she can know how she would reply you, (i think)

Simply defined, the Trinity is:
One purpose, three roles.

For non-christians(born-agains), if you want to understand the bible and Gods ways, give your life to christ and let the holy-spirit TEACH/UNVIEL the bible to you.
You atheist, muslims, and all, just argue for nothing. nobody, not even God is begging/forcing you to come to christ(saved) anymore.
It's your luck and choice.

Viper:

Simply defined, the Trinity is:
One purpose, three roles.

nice one!

its also like one hand, five fingers, same functions.

lioness:

its also like one hand, five fingers, same functions.

lol true that

@ Darkchild

Can anyone one on this forum please explain in clear terms ' the trinity' to me?

I have not met any xtians who can explain it to me without getting confused themself along the way.

For starters, the word Trinity is not a biblical word, but is a word used to highlight the seperate members of the Deity or Godhead.

As to whether you agree to there being three seperate members within that Deity is another question. Was that too hard for you to understand?

ajagbei:

I will like to contribute to this: see father,son and Holy Ghost are titles of one God. They are not seperate persons. please read: 2Tim 3:16. All what people call God is The Lord Jesus Christ. He is Lord God Almighty. He is Jehova of both the Old and New Testament, the redeemer. No wonder, if you read your bible very well where it say " Believe in the Lord Jesus Christ and Thou shall be saved" and " There is no name given among men where we can be saved, except the Lord Jesus Christ. This is a Revelation by the Spirit. I tell you the truth, if you die today, you will only see one person who is our great God-The Lord Jesus Christ, please visit www.williambranham.com to learn more .God bless you.

So in essence you are trying to say jesus is God abi?

@ajagbei

wat i can see here is that you do not entirely believe in the trinity, do you?

when we "christians" use the bible to prove and disprove the trinity, it casts a shadow of doubt on others who want to become christians, when we are not of one accord, how do we intend to spread the gospel when we cannot maintain consistency in our word in an effort to prove a point?

This is the way I see it: the Gospel should never be watered down to please anybody - otherwise, that would result in a perversion of the Word of God, the very thing that He warns us against. It doesn't really matter to me if some people feel this way or that and then complain that it casts a shadow of doubt to them. Be not afraid or anxious to believe what God has declared - the opinions of men do not stand up to the established Word.

Second, there are not three "gods" but one; and this one God has revealed Himself in the Trinity comprising the Father, the Son, and the Holy Spirit - all and alone co-eternal, the very same in essence. To state that there is only one person in the Godhead is to push monism rather than monotheism. Jesus is the Son of God, the Son of the Father - and He is not the Father Himself nor the Holy Spirit.

@ Viper, Ajagbei

What do you believe?

You guys, the things that are revealed to us belong to us and that which's not belongs to God (Deut 29:29), so instead of hussling to figure out who we will meet on the last day.lol. why don't we walk on getting in on that day! Onething i know, when i get there, is that i will not be met by 3 Gods sitting on the throne, as to which revelation it will be--the father, the son or the Angel of His presence, which ever one is on the throne, i believe is the father! i'm just glad to see Him.

dearzi:

@ Viper, Ajagbei

What do you believe?

You guys, the things that are revealed to us belong to us and that which's not belongs to God (Deut 29:29), so instead of hussling to figure out who we will meet on the last day.lol. why don't we walk on getting in on that day! Onething i know, when i get there, is that i will not be met by 3 Gods sitting on the throne, as to which revelation it will be--the father, the son or the Angel of His presence, which ever one is on the throne, i believe is the father! i'm just glad to see Him.

How are you sure about that? if you do, will you beat them?

Hi everyone I have read with interest what some have said, but I want to address Darkchild re his question about the trinity.

The word Trinity as you might be aware doesn't exist in the bible as a word, but it implies a tri-une God. If you see the word God as a title you are closer home to understanding why there are three persons that make up this Deity.

The word "God" in the OT writings of Moses always exist in the plural. When he declared that the "Lord thy God is one God" the word Elohim was used as a plural noun from the hebrew.

There are a few instances in the OT that tend to point to a government that is headed by more than one absolute beings. In Genesis it says "let us make man in our image, " It also says in the same book that when God was about to confuse the language of men for building a forbidden tower it suggested a plurality of consensus. "let us go down and confound their language"

Why would Moses write in such a language if there were not more than one personality? But the question still lingers about the "One God, "

The word One means united. If we are to accept that when a man and his wife become one that it doesn't mean a literal oneness in flesh, then it shouldn't be that difficult to see what the "One" means when used by Moses.

When Jesus who was introduced as the Son of God said that "I and the Father are One" did He mean that they were the same or was it that He meant that they were in unity?

Listen to Paul as he describes the status of Jesus before He incarnated as a man:

Philipian 2:5,6
5 Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: 6 Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:

Why would Paul make such a statement about equality between who we call Christ and the Father? In other words before Christ came to bring about salvation, He shared the same title as His Father, and that title is what we call God. Both shared the same title, because they both possess the same substance previously, and they both shared the same authority.

However when Christ took on the submissive role and became a man He had to go through the rudiments of understanding what we would go through as humans. He wasn't forced to come. He who made us became one of us to save us. Our Creator became his own creation in order to redeem us.

Now here comes the mystery part, and that is the Holy Spirit. Not much has been said about this personality, but one thing we know is that He has a function,a nd it would seem that He is seperate from both God and the Son. Some belieev that both the Father and Son share the same Holy Spirit, while others belieev that the Spirit is just God's active force.

Whatever the case may be one thing is sure is that the bible makes reference to three distinct beings with distinct functions.

If you're interested there are biblical references to confirm.