Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents - Religion (7) - Nairaland
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents (43166 Views)
A Comparison Between Christian Doctrine And Mormon Doctrine / Check Our Church Doctrine And Join Us / Proponents Of "Touch Not My Anointed" (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (27) (Reply) (Go Down)
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 2:09pm On Jul 16, 2014 |
truthislight: If you'd being considerate of the others or made effort to at least skim through, you'd not have referred to or brought this up again. Humans will judge angels, duh. It ought to be commonsense enough for you to realise that if the Master don't want angels reaping yet, then humans should not. Emphasis on WHEN not WHO. smh |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by truthislight: 8:45pm On Jul 16, 2014 |
Image123: Sharrap! You confused bag. Its time you start hidding your shameless face. Whether when or who, its all refers to Angels, When they will do the reaping and who will do the reaping. It absolutely has nothing to do with the posters on this thread. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by truthislight: 8:48pm On Jul 16, 2014 |
How on earth is it possible for humans to reap and bunch/bundle and cast into the fire other humans while they are with them on earth ?  3 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by loveroftruth: 8:59pm On Jul 16, 2014 |
truthislight: How on earth is it possible for humans to reap and bunch/bundle and cast into the fire other humans while they are with them on earth ? "The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world. The Son of man shall send forth his angels, and they shall gather out of his kingdom all things that offend, and them which do iniquity; " (Matthew 13:39-41). 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by loveroftruth: 9:10pm On Jul 16, 2014 |
"Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." (Matthew 13:30). 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 9:16pm On Jul 16, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size] I have no submission for JDS. The ones I have heard, is upsetting enough. I endorse everything BabaGnoni and trust man have written on it. If there are no further submissions on F6, I request you gentlemen for us to move quickly to F7. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by truthislight: 9:18pm On Jul 16, 2014 |
loveroftruth: "Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn." (Matthew 13:30). Well then, if the posters on this thread can do the reaping for fire, it also beholds that they can gather the weath into the store house. Smh for you Mr 123. 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 8:34am On Jul 17, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size] ...I have so far managed only submitting the intro for F6 I will publish F6 proper (i.e. perspective), asap, so please bear with me or the seemingly hiatus. 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 7:55pm On Jul 18, 2014 |
1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 12:36am On Jul 19, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size] Jesus did not grow to be an old man, He was a young man of 33 years old, when He was arrested by the Temple guards, on the orders of the leaders of Temple (i.e. the Sanhedrin) Sanhedrin actually is a Greek word meaning joint session, tribunal or council. By the time of Jesus Christ, while the Israelites were under Roman rule, the Sanhedrin had great authority, They even are mentioned in the New Testament in references to being highest Jewish judicial council. The council consisted of 71 members of leading priests and the teachers of religious law (i.e. including both Pharisees and Sadducees) presided over by the high priest. Now, the Sanhedrin were the beneficiaries and collectors of tithes and sacrifices in the Temple and for a lot of different reasons were bitter opponents of Jesus, as they particularly felt threatened by Jesus' messages and the Gospel. Jesus frequently used to tongue-lash and lambast the teachers of the law, the Pharisees etc warning against their hypocrisy, calling them snakes, brood of vipers, blind fools, blind men etc He also called them whitewashed tombs, which look beautiful on the outside but on the inside are full of the bones of the dead and everything unclean He said they were full of greed and self-indulgence. At one instance he declared seven miseries one after the other at the Pharisees in a seating (i.e. 7 woes altogether in Matthew 23:13- 29) So, as at time of Jesus' arrest, the Sanhedrin plot to deal with Jesus actually had been ongoing for the past 3 years. - the bible records seven instances of official plotting against Him, two previous attempts at arrest and three assassination attempts. It is worth noting that, this is the same Sanhedrin (i.e. council - the 71 members, leading priests and the teachers of religious law including both Pharisees and Sadducees) that Peter and John were brought before and who ordered Peter and John to stop teaching the Gospel Anyway, the incident which broke the camel's back regarding Jesus, for the Sanhedrin was when Jesus whipped and drove out the money changers etc from the Temple saying to them: "The Scriptures declare, 'My Temple will be called a house of prayer,' but you have turned it into a den of thieves!" The Sanhedrin took exception to that Jesus-Temple incident, and so it became the showdown that then led to the development or series of events and actions that ended on the Cross at Calvary. The Sanhedrin after that Jesus-Temple incident had then decided to kill Jesus there and then but were waiting for the right and best opportunity to successfully carry it out. They literally had signed His death warrant, which unaided and politically they are unable to carry out, as only the Romans can authorise and carry out death sentences Eventually, Jesus, with the help of one of the disciples, Judas, who betrayed Him, was arrested by the temple guards, and brought before the Sanhedrin for a trial. At the trial, the council were looking for evidence against Jesus so that they could put him to death, but they couldn't get credible ones as many were giving false testimony against Him, and the account of their testimonies were not adding up. The high priest eventually used a technicality that Jesus called Himself God as blasphemy worthy of death so on this trumped-up charge the council condemned Jesus as worthy of death The council (i.e. Sanhedrin) is now in a bit of a pickle, they've condemned Jesus to death but it isn't official or legally right to have Jesus die not until Rome says so The murder weapon: On that night people spat at Jesus, He was blindfolded when other people struck him with their fists, the temple guards took turns in beating Him too. The next day, the council (i.e. Sanhedrin) literally frog-marched Jesus to Pilate In Pilate's court is the murder weapon that will kill Jesus Pilate interrogated Jesus, found Him innocent of all charges against Him but succumbed to political pressure from the council (i.e. Sanhedrin) to have Jesus executed. Pilate enforced the execution and so was the trigger of the murder weapon but the council (i.e. Sanhedrin) was the bullet of the murder weapon that killed Jesus. Jesus was condemned to death and sentenced to die by Crucifixion (i.e. to die on a cross) Death by an electric chair or lethal injection is child's play when compared with Crucifixion. Jesus was nailed on that Cross at Golgotha for 6 hours before He physically died. Crucifixion, as used by the Roman Empire, is a slow and painful form of capital punishment. It is an ancient form of execution in which the person is nailed or bound to a cross It is a legally authorised form of killing someone as punishment for a crime, only that in Jesus' case there was no crime. He is innocent. Although He was legally sentenced to death albeit on trumped up charges, it was MURDER The word crucifixion actually comes from the Latin word "crucifixio" and it means "fixed to a cross" The English word excruciating, meaning something extremely painful or intense, comes from the Latin word for torture or pain out of or from crucifying (i.e. Crucifixion) It is one of the most inhumane, cruel, barbaric kind of death penalty then at that time. Only state/political dissidents or really bad criminals are given death by Crucifixion Jesus was sentenced to. And with Jesus, things were pretty bad... Jesus earlier in the garden of Gethsemane where He was arrested had earlier had a premonition too that things looked pretty bad. Crime scene evidences (e.g. body - blood, water and spirit): The murder weapon has been established, crime scene evidences (e.g. body - blood, water and spirit) surrounding the commission of this crime needs examining. Unlike other criminals condemned to death by Crucifixion, Jesus' death was chilly, gruesome and horrible Jesus was already beaten beyond recognition, and He is about going to receive nails hammered in on His hands and feet The nails were hammered or knocked into His hands and some have written that there’s a tendon which extends till the shoulder, and when the nails were being hammered, that tendon broke, obliging Jesus to reinforce all the muscles of His back, so that He could breath as He was loosing all the air from his lungs. In this way, He was forced to support Himself onto the nail driven in to His feet, which was bigger than those nailed into His hands, for both feet were nailed together. And, as His feet could not endure for long time without tearing, Jesus was forced to alternate that “cycle” so that He could breath. Jesus endured this extreme physical and mental suffering for 6 hours He was offered myrrh (i.e. a form of pain killer) soaked in a cloth but refused it He not only shed blood but also poured out blood and water from His wounds Jesus carried for almost 2 kilometres, the 30kg weight of wood which was for the higher part of the cross, where His hands were to be nailed on The crowd jeered at Him, tore off hairs from His cheek, pulled out His beards, spat on His face and threw stones at Him as He walked carrying the wood to the execution place. Psalm 22:12-17 “For dogs have surrounded Me; the congregation of the wicked has enclosed Me. They pierced My hands and My feet; I can count all My bones. They look and stare at Me. (i.e. Psalm 22 describes all the humiliation in detail) He shed blood from the beatings He took, from the crown of thorns pushed down on His head and from the three nails hammered into His hands and feet. He poured out blood and water from His side from the piercing of a Roman spear. No guts. No glory. Jesus gave all up, the ghost, His body. God underwent all these sufferings, to reconcile us with Himself. and bridge the gap so that we can have free access back to Him. Jesus did all these things so that our sins be washed off, all of them, with no exception! Our sins be forgiven and forgotten Some will deny He did all these things on the way to Calvary and had these things done to Him on the cross for man and his sins They will rather that, He had to go to some Hell (i.e. Gehenna) to pay off the cost or price of sin. Some will deny that what He did on the cross was not good enough for the atonement of sin But Jesus says in Matthew 10:32-33: 32"Therefore everyone who confesses Me before men, I will also confess him before My Father who is in heaven. 33"But whoever denies Me before men, I will also deny him before My Father who is in heaven". Those are the evidences: the murder weapon, the crime scene evidences The numbers of lives impacted by Him even until today when compared with the number of life He lived on Earth shows He lived a quality rather than a quantity life. He was 33 years old. [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size] 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 1:23am On Jul 19, 2014 |
^^^ In other words, the pain the Master endured was sufficient sufferings for our sins. There was no need for a hell torture. Two things, sir, that I request as addition to your splendid writeup. First is the Sanhedrin you spoke about that constituted the pharisees and saduccees. The historical records on the pharisees does not paint them in the evil picture that the NT paints them with. The Pharisees were a religious group that descended from the Macabees, a godly family, God used to restore true worship to Israel in a period after Malachi and before the NT and who also carried out military campaigns. The pharisees simply continued the tradition this godly family had taught Israel. But by the time of Jesus, they were practicing dead orthodoxy and were ready tools in Satan hands. I believe that Jesus disciples intentionally painted them in the light they did in their writing bc by practicing religion, they had become evil people who would crucify the saviour. The question I leave with you is this: what does it take for a Vatican, a CAN, or a WOF group of ministers to become pharisees who will kill prophets sent to them as Jesus rightly said in Matthew 23? The second thing I wish to add to BabaG well written document was that Jesus did not only endure pain on the cross, he endured shame also. Our Master was crucified na_ked - butt open. With the whole world, men, women, disciples staring at him. In the language of modern success teachers, Jesus was a failure. This is the picture that wrought our redemption. It is neccesary to say all these to show that the fable of JDS is unnecessary. Jesus death was ignominious enough. It need not be painted worse with lies. Jesus physical death secured our redemption and that is sufficient. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 11:40am On Jul 19, 2014 |
^^^ DrummaBoy, you're 100% right, the Pharisee were before formerly for and of the people, until when they became distant to the people and later got transformed into "Far-to-see" - evidence of stomach politics missing there The Sadducee on the other hand, were the elitist, they were the "Sad-to-see" who snobbishly, it is alleged, looked down on the Pharisees and especially in derogatory manners too. The other third group would be the Essenes It is worth noticing too that Adam and Eve were na_ked after disobeying and Jesus too in obeying became na_ked when restoring man back to God [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION (contd) ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size] This discussion is being concluded at this point, of course, gaps were left in it, this is due to unforeseeable circumstances and little time right now too There are a number of detailed explanations missing or left undealt with. Like not dealing with the spiritual death and spiritual resurrection of Jesus in contrary to how WoF teaches it Both were not discussed in relation with the Holy Place and the Holy of Holies etc  Also did not explain the meaning and implication of the 3 hour pitch black darkness (i.e. the details behind darkness as being the absence of or separation from God) in contrary to how WoF teaches it  Nor discussed was happening or what transpired during the black-out It was not even compared with a similar darkness that happened in Egypt (i.e. the darkness that happened in Egypt but which did not affect the Israelites close by in Goshen) Also, in contrary to how WoF teaches it, the opportunity to debunk Jesus going to Hell (i.e. Gehenna) was not exploited The fact, truth and thrust of the whole discussion is that Jesus died on the cross at Calvary/Golgota (i.e. place of the Skull) as our passover lamb for the atonement of our sins His resurrection three days later served to prove His power and deity as God which incidentally He had earlier proved anyway when He brought Lazarus back from the dead. As this discussion winds down some details to note about Jesus, the kangaroo court, the false witnesses, charges of blasphemy, the Cross and the Crucifixion is the interesting parallel and similarity with the encounter between Elijah, Jezebel, Naboth and Jezreel Elijah needs no introduction, nor does Jezebel as such need any apart from the fact that it was her that made Elijah have a death-wish after she almost killed all the prophets in the land. Naboth means “fruit produce” and Jezreel means "God will sow" <insert meaning of Jezreel here> Naboth was the owner of a vineyard next to King Ahab's palace in Jezreel (refer to: 1 Kings 21:1) King Ahab coveted the vineyard and approached Naboth for it Naboth refused and did not oblige giving the vineyard to the king, He gave a valid excuse of the Israelite tradition of keeping land in the family as an inheritance. Ahab became miserable and confided in his partner, Jezebel. Jezebel promised the king she'll get the vineyard for him and took matters up in her hands. She summoned Nabot to a bogus trial orchestrated for him, where she arranged for false accusers to bring charges of blasphemy against him. Naboth was found guilty, condemned to die and later was stoned to death. When Ahab heard that Naboth was dead, he got up and went down to conveniently take possession of Naboth’s vineyard. God sent Elijah to confront Ahab about the incident and the following conversation as in 1 Kings 21:17-20, 23 occurred: 1 Kings 21:17-20, 23 NIV 17Then the word of the Lord came to Elijah the Tishbite: 18“Go down to meet Ahab king of Israel, who rules in Samaria. He is now in Naboth’s vineyard, where he has gone to take possession of it. 19Say to him, ‘This is what the Lord says: Have you not murdered a man and seized his property?’ Then say to him, ‘This is what the Lord says: In the place where dogs licked up Naboth’s blood, dogs will lick up your blood—yes, 20Ahab said to Elijah, “So you have found me, my enemy!” “I have found you,” he answered, “because you have sold yourself to do evil in the eyes of the Lord. 23“And also concerning Jezebel the Lord says: ‘Dogs will devour Jezebel by the wall of Jezreel.’ Ahab and Jezebel's illegal possession of Naboth's vineyard did not go scot free as Elijah's prophecy about them came to pass. Ahab was mortally wounded in battle (1 Kings 22:35 ) and Jezebel was thrown to her death at the command of Jehu, who brought Ahab's dynasty to an end (2 Kings 9:33 ) When Jehu asked that Jezebel be buried (i.e. bury her for she is a king's daughter) the eunuchs (note devoid of any attraction for the profane Jezebel) came back saying, nothing was found of her, except for her skull, two hands and feet But when they went to bury her, they found no more of her than the skull and the feet and the palms of her hands. 2 Kings 9:35 ESV  <insert calvary pic here> Just like what was left of Jezebel (i.e. her skull, her feet and the palms of her hands which were difficult to destroy) Jesus hung on the cross (i.e. His skull bruised with thorn crown, feet and palms of His hands nailed to the cross) destroying the power of darkness and getting rid of this symbol of evil. Incidentally, John in a message to the church in Thyatira (note Thyatira means continual sacrifice, sacrifice of labor or perfume) again warns about tolerating that woman Jezebel (i.e. false teachers) in the church. Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says: 18“To the angel of the church in Thyatira write: These are the words of the Son of God, whose eyes are like blazing fire and whose feet are like burnished bronze. 19I know your deeds, your love and faith, your service and perseverance, and that you are now doing more than you did at first. 20Nevertheless, I have this against you: You tolerate that woman Jezebel, who calls herself a prophet. By her teaching she misleads my servants into sexual immorality and the eating of food sacrificed to idols. 21I have given her time to repent of her immorality, but she is unwilling. 22So I will cast her on a bed of suffering, and I will make those who commit adultery with her suffer intensely, unless they repent of her ways. 23I will strike her children dead. Then all the churches will know that I am he who searches hearts and minds, and I will repay each of you according to your deeds 24Now I say to the rest of you in Thyatira, to you who do not hold to her teaching and have not learned Satan’s so-called deep secrets, ‘I will not impose any other burden on you, 25except to hold on to what you have until I come.’ 26To the one who is victorious and does my will to the end, I will give authority over the nations— 27that one ‘will rule them with an iron scepter and will dash them to pieces like pottery’ —just as I have received authority from my Father. 28I will also give that one the morning star. 29Whoever has ears, let them hear what the Spirit says to the churches Revelation 2:18-29 NIV I REST MY CASE ON F6, FOR NOW. [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION (contd) ON F6: JDS (i.e. Jesus Died Spiritually)[/size] 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 4:02pm On Jul 19, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY LAUGHTER[/size] Question: "What is holy laughter?" Answer: The term "holy laughter" was coined to describe a phenomenon during which a person laughs uncontrollably, presumably as a result of being filled with the Holy Spirit's joy. It is characterized by peals of uncontrollable laughter, sometimes accompanied by swooning or falling down to the floor. Firsthand accounts from those who have had this experience vary somewhat, but all seem to believe it to be a sign of a "blessing" or "anointing" of the Holy Spirit. The experience of holy laughter is, by nature, a subjective one. Therefore, in an effort to find the truth of the matter, we must try to be objective. When our definition of truth depends upon our experience of the world, we are a very short way from becoming entirely relative in our thinking. In short, feelings do not tell us what is true. Feelings are not bad, and sometimes our feelings are aligned with scriptural truth. However, they are more often aligned with our sin nature. The fickle nature of the heart makes it a very unreliable compass. "The heart is more deceitful than all else, and is desperately sick; who can understand it?" (Jeremiah 17:9). This deceitful-heart principle is specifically applicable to the phenomenon known as "holy laughter." There is no doubt that people have indeed begun to laugh uncontrollably at revival meetings. That is a fact. But what does it really mean? Laughter is addressed a number of times in the Bible. Often it is used to describe a mocking or scornful response, as was the case with Abraham and Sarah who laughed when God told them they would bear a child in their old age. Some verses use it as a sign of derision (Psalm 59:8; Psalm 80:6; Proverbs 1:26), and still others make pointed statements about the nature of laughter itself. Solomon, for example, made the following observation in Ecclesiastes 2:2: "I said of laughter, ‘It is madness,’ and of pleasure, ‘What does it accomplish?’" He then goes on to say, in 7:3, "Sorrow is better than laughter, for when a face is sad a heart may be happy." Proverbs 14:13 says the reverse: "Even in laughter the heart may be in pain, and the end of joy may be grief." Both of these verses are true: a sad person may laugh to cover his sadness, and a person may cry although he is inwardly happy. So, not only does emotion fail to give us truth, but we also see that laughter is not always indicative of joy. It can mean anger, sadness, or derision. Likewise, the lack of laughter does not automatically mean sadness. Laughter is clearly subjective. The most convincing scriptural argument against what is called "holy laughter" is found in Galatians 5:22-23. It says, "But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law." If self-control is a fruit of the Spirit of God, how can uncontrollable laughter also be a fruit of His Spirit? Revival leaders claim that being filled with the Spirit means that we are sort of "tossed about" by His whims. But the idea that God would make people act drunk or laugh uncontrollably or make animal noises as a result of the Spirit's anointing is directly opposed to the way the Spirit acts, according to Galatians 5:22-23. The Spirit described in Galatians 5 is one who promotes self-control within us, not the opposite. Finally, there was no one in the Bible more filled with the Holy Spirit than Jesus, and not once does the Bible ever record Him laughing. In light of these things, it is profitable to take a look at the following passage from 1 Corinthians 14, where Paul talks about speaking in tongues: "But now, brethren, if I come to you speaking in tongues, what will I profit you unless I speak to you either by way of revelation or of knowledge or of prophecy or of teaching?" (v.6). "For if the bugle produces an indistinct sound, who will prepare himself for battle? So also you, unless you utter by the tongue speech that is clear, how will it be known what is spoken? For you will be speaking into the air” (vv. 8-9). "What is the outcome then, brethren? When you assemble, each one has a psalm, has a teaching, has a revelation, has a tongue, has an interpretation. Let all things be done for edification. If anyone speaks in a tongue, it should be by two or at the most three, and each in turn, and one must interpret; but if there is no interpreter, he must keep silent in the church; and let him speak to himself and to God" (vv. 26-28). "...for God is not a God of confusion but of peace, as in all the churches of the saints" (v. 33). In those days, many people in the churches were speaking in languages that were unrecognizable to others, and, therefore, Paul says they were useless in the church because the speaker could not edify others with his speech. The same could be applied to holy laughter. What does it profit (Paul asks) unless we speak to one another with revelation, teaching, knowledge and truth? Again, he says, "Let all things be done for edification." He caps off his argument by saying, "God is not a God of confusion, but of peace," which makes it clear that he does not want the atmosphere within the church to be one of confusion and meaninglessness, but one of knowledge and edification. It seems, from what Paul is saying, that which is called "holy laughter" would fall under the category of what is "not edifying" to the body of Christ, and should therefore be avoided. We have recognized that a) laughter is an unreliable emotional response; b) it can be a sign of several different emotions; and c) it does not accomplish anything useful. Furthermore, uncontrollable spasms of emotion are contrary to the nature of the Holy Spirit. It is advisable, therefore, not to look to "holy laughter" as a means of growing nearer to God or as a means of experiencing His Spirit. Read more: http://www.gotquestions.org/holy-laughter.html#ixzz37vWH8Y88 3 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 8:02am On Jul 20, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY LAUGHTER[/size] A very instructive article. Emotion does not think. (e.g. ManU fans will always want the team to win whether they in top form or not... ...why?) Therefore using an emotional experience as a yardstick for the spiritual life almost always leads to error. 4 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by BabaGnoni: 2:44pm On Jul 20, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit[/size]    Introduction and discussion about this doctrine (i.e. holy ghost laughter etc) as taught by WoF to follow soon Watch this space: Go to: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents/7#24937905 [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit[/size] 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 7:55pm On Jul 20, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit[/size][/color] [size=14pt]INTRODUCTION[/size] 1 Corinthians 14:40 - “Let all things be done decently and in order”. [size=14pt]Is This A Laughing Matter?[/size] 1. Laughing, Crying, Shaking, Running around the building, Barking-howling, Trances, Drunkenness, Falling Out, Being "Hot", Fanning self or blowing, 2. Hooting like Owls. 3. Walking like chickens. 4. High Pitch whine reminiscent of a lively horse! 5. Mooing and Crowing. 6. Swimming in the spirit-on the back and also breast stroke style! 7. Women going through imaginary birth pangs. 8. Hopping like kangaroos. 9. Loss of Conciousness. 10. Soaring like eagles. 11. Hissing and moving like a snake. 12. Inability to speak and involuntary body spasms. 13. Kung Fu-like stances. (everybody loves Kung Fu fighting, ehn?) 14. Vomiting in the spirit and holy head-banging. 15. Stripping (Taking off Clothes!). Did you think for a moment that these were happening in a voodoo session? If so you’re wrong: these are occurrences in Christian meetings. In case you are wondering then what these are, the answer is this: [size=14pt]these are ‘manifestations’ reported in “holy laughter” sessions – for real[/size]. What can be the cause of this hysteria that many in WoF meetings get caught up in? Does the Holy Spirit want us to imitate animals? Where in the world can we find support in Scripture for these varied manifestations reported in these laughter meeting? What is the center of attention in these meetings – man, the manifestations or Jesus Christ? Looks good, feels good … … A sign of spirituality? Yet another belief and practice of the Word of Faith Movement is Holy Ghost Laughter along with slain in the spirit. These phenomenons have become very popular and are, in fact, much sought-after experiences in the WoF circles. They have become a distinguishing feature of the meetings of many well known WoF preachers since they (more especially slain in the spirit) are often seen as a sign of the spirituality (or anointing) of such ministers. So what are these ‘manifestations’? What do they do for the individual believer as well as the body of Christ in general? [size=14pt]The Final Authority[/size] As we have repeatedly pointed out, the final judge in any issue or controversy in spiritual matters is not what took place in this ministry or that, or what this MoG or that MoG said but what the Word of God says. When faced with any kind of phenomena, particularly the unusual and weird, which is claimed to be from God, any sensible believer will first go to the Bible (rightly divided) to see whether there is any Biblical basis for what is taking place. No more, no less. [size=14pt]So the million naira question is .... Is There A Biblical Basis For "Holy Ghost Laughter" or Being "Slain In The Spirit? [/size] 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 9:09pm On Jul 20, 2014 |
*distinguishing features you say? i've NEVER seen this(LAUGHTER) in Nigeria, not even in recent times or as a distinguishing feature in foreign supposedly WOF meetings. Is there no WOF movement in Nigeria? Is Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Oyakhilome, Adeboye etc WOF? Name callers anybody? |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 9:32pm On Jul 20, 2014 |
Image123: *distinguishing features you say? i've NEVER seen this(LAUGHTER) in Nigeria, not even in recent times or as a distinguishing feature in foreign supposedly WOF meetings. Is there no WOF movement in Nigeria? Is Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Oyakhilome, Adeboye etc WOF? Name callers anybody? First, I take it that you know about being 'slain in the spirit'. If you have not heard about the 'Holy laughter' then remember the saying "to be forewarned, is to be forearmed". It's good to have advance knowledge to warn you when you do meet with the 'occurrences '. 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 9:48pm On Jul 20, 2014 |
trustman: [size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit[/size][/color] Quite an interesting list. And these are not a laughing matter ra ra ati ra ni |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 10:01pm On Jul 20, 2014 |
Image123: *distinguishing features you say? i've NEVER seen this(LAUGHTER) in Nigeria, not even in recent times or as a distinguishing feature in foreign supposedly WOF meetings. Is there no WOF movement in Nigeria? Is Oyedepo, Kumuyi, Oyakhilome, Adeboye etc WOF? Name callers anybody? While trustman did say laughing in the spirit is a distinguishing feature in WOF, he has not said that it is in Nigeria, neither did he list any of the ministers you listed as practicing it, nor was "distinguishing feature" the only thing he said in that post. First, from what has been said on this thread, it has been shown that WOF is not a denomination or church per se; rather it is a movement that espouse certain doctrines through key individuals like Kenyon and Hagin. The unfortunate consequence in our clime is adding WOF to the pentecostal mix. Secondly, lauging in the spirit is not common in Nigeria but I have seen drunkeness in the Spirit. And I have heard of an Ibadan minister espousing and practising laughing in the spirit. Majority of those who are critical enough, despite espousing WOF, have enough sense not to permit this rubbish in their meetings. Despite this, the fact that the (supposed) father of WOF, Kenneth E. Hagin espoused, taught and practiced lauging in the spirit warrant a need to discuss it here. 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 8:19am On Jul 21, 2014 |
trustman: i take it that you did not read what i wrote. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 8:27am On Jul 21, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: i was hoping to take you fellows serious this once. It's either we take what you're saying at face value or not. Tman said THESE phenomenons(i guess he meant phenomena). Then he clearly (or so i thought) said "They have become a distinguishing feature of the meetings of many well known WoF preachers". It's either i have comprehension issues or he doesn't know what he is writing. You're talking to a Nigerian audience on a Nigerian forum. 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 8:42am On Jul 21, 2014 |
Image123: Well you said it yourself: you have comprehension issues. And usually such "issues" are solved by re-reading the given texts. So take the advice you propose to trustman above and read both his text and mine again. Nairaland might be owned by a Nigerian with mostly Nigerians as members but the fact that it uses a www medium makes it transcend Nigeria. Also, WOF is not a Nigerian concept. It is American; Nigerians are simply wannabes. Nevertheless, even the Nigerian link to Holy laughter has been suggested in my post which I doubt you have read. 5 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 9:09am On Jul 21, 2014 |
Image123: Db has really said it all. I'll just add a little more. What I see you attempt to do is to try to punch 'holes' in what is presented without really offering a viable solution. Go back to the first post and see what this thread stands for. Mathew 11:17 - "'We played the flute for you, and you did not dance; we sang a dirge, and you did not mourn.' Wouldn't you agree that Nigerians need to be warned about a danger that may or may not be at their door steps? That you may not know it is at the door steps does not mean it is not so. Be more constructive. If we say so and so are not biblical and you have a place in scripture to show otherwise state it. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 9:14pm On Jul 21, 2014 |
[size=16pt]MY SUBMISSION ON F7: HOLY GHOST LAUGHTER along with slain in the spirit (Continued)[/size] ”Now the Spirit expressly says that in later times some will depart from the faith by devoting themselves to deceitful spirits and teachings of demons, through the insincerity of liars whose consciences are seared ..”. (1 Timothy 4:1-2) “Do not be hasty in the laying on of hands, and do not share in the sins of others. Keep yourself pure”. (1 Timothy 5: 22) [size=14pt]Slain in the spirit: Is It Worship or Is It Entertainment?[/size] A picture one sees in many churches that believe in this phenomenon is when people come forward during a service for prayer or some form of ‘ministration’ and they are then touched on the head or shoulders or blown upon by the pastor or some other ‘minister’ and then they fall to the ground. Sometimes the fall is accomplished by a wave of hand by the preacher in the direction of a group of people. This is called being 'Slain in the Spirit'; and those involved in such sessions see them as an obvious sign of God at work in such gatherings. Participants attribute what happens to a response to the power, or "anointing" of the Holy Spirit, under which an ordinary person is unable to keep standing. Many partakers believe this experience brings both physical and emotional healing, deliverance and/or an anointing by the Spirit. This phenomenon has gained unprecedented popularity within the WoF circles, where EXPERIENCES are highly sought after, and is, in fact, often seen as a sign of the spirituality (or anointing) of a minister who is able to impart the Spirit with a touch. Is this another ‘gift’ of the Spirit; a new gift not among those listed in Scripture? What does 1 Corinthians 12: 1 say? – “Now about the gifts of the Spirit, brothers and sisters, I do not want you to be uninformed”. So, can we get a ‘new’ gift of the Spirit the Bible did not inform us about? The answer is an absolute NO! Any sensible Christian, when faced with any kind of experience, particularly unusual ones, which is claimed to be from God, should go to the Bible to see if he can get any biblical support or justification for it. However, where emotions rule as in the WoF movement, this is hardly done. [size=14pt]Does the Bible support the experience of being "Slain In The Spirit? [/size] Many WoF adherents will readily claim that the experience has scriptural support. They are usually quick to look for ‘words’ that will support their position. For example, if the ‘word’ they are looking for is ‘fall’ or ‘falling’, they look for where such words are and then find a way of using it to fall in line with their position. There is no record in the Bible where this practice, as done by the WoF people, happened. Neither do we find the kinds of ‘manifestations’ seen in today’s phenomena. Again, like I have previously mentioned, for a people that elevate experience above knowledge/the teachings of Scripture, this fact will be readily disregarded by them. Another issue that should give any thinking Christian cause for concern is that these events are not restricted to Christians. Unbelievers have reportedly experienced same within and outside the church sessions. It is interesting to note that in virtually all the incidents where we find people falling down in the Bible they were both in full control of their senses and still aware of their surroundings. We know for sure is that there is absolutely no Biblical record of the Apostles ever 'slaying' anyone else in the Spirit or even speaking on this phenomenon. The experiences in scripture had to do with verifiable spectacular or supernatural encounters which today’s experiences do not line up with. In our "WIIFM" (What’s In It For Me) world of today WoF adherents have, as usual, taken the focus off God and His Word and placed it on self... what they feel, what they experience, what benefits them. [size=14pt]A Look At Kenneth Hagin’s Narration of The Experience[/size] Here are quotes from two books by Kenneth E. Hagin: “Stay drunk on the Spirit of God! You can get so drunk on the Holy Ghost that you stagger around like a drunk man.” “When you get drunk on the Spirit, you laugh, and don’t have a care in the world.” - “A Fresh Anointing” by Kenneth E. Hagin, RHEMA Bible Church, 2001, pages 47-48 There is nowhere in the Bible where the filling of the Spirit on Jesus or the Apostles led to staggering like a drunk and going on to laugh. “When I started laying hands on the people during that seminar, they started falling everywhere. The anointing on me was strong. After ministering that night, I wobbled around like a drunk. I couldn’t get to my car unaided, much less drive it home. Somebody had to drive me home and help me out of the car. They got me a big recliner, but it was two hours before I got back to normal and could get up out of the chair and walk. This is one reason I get away from the crowd in healing crusades. The anointing seem to settle down in my legs like that and I can’t walk. Also, when I’m ministering under that anointing, I’ll tell people, “Don’t talk to me.” You see, if I get back over in the natural, mental realm, I’ll lose the anointing” - “UNDERSTANDING THE ANOINTING” by Kenneth E. Hagin, RHEMA Bible Church, 1983, page 141 There is nowhere the Apostles ministered and as a result became physically incapacitated as described here. Jesus and the Apostles were always in their natural senses when they ministered. Jesus even conversed with some of those he wanted to heal, whether of demon possession or other ailment. Why would someone ‘lose the anointing’ because people talk to him? The question is ‘Who is at work – God or man?’ If it is God’s power reaching out to the people why would it have to weaken the minister? Certainly God’s power can reach directly, can’t it? Why should the minister have to suffer for the expression of God’s power? [size=14pt]Where the Focus should be[/size] Many Christians today pay only lip service to the Word of God preferring to use it to “support” their viewpoint rather than to first seek to get what it stands for so as to conform to what it says. The basis for living our spiritual lives as Christians must be the Word of God. When the Word is neglected or rejected as the yardstick for the spiritual life of the Christian, ‘experience’, heretical teachings/viewpoints and emotionalism take over. However, the two cannot mix. It is a case of either one or the other. Pursuit of the miraculous, the feel good, and mystical experiences turn the focus away from God to what man wants. Apart from the Word of God any resort to emotional stimulation will only result in spiritual impotence. [size=14pt]TO BE CONTINUED[/size] 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 11:33pm On Jul 21, 2014 |
DrummaBoy: So i re-read and it seems tman does not know what he is saying. The word "THESE" is plural. That means it refers to more than one. That means you are not talking or specific on laughter. To further cement this, he said " a distinguishing feature of the meetings of many well known WoF preachers". Hopefully, you know the meaning of 'distinguishing feature'. The meetingS of MANY WELL KNOWN preacherS. Yet no well known preacher in Nigeria mentioned or deemed fit by you. You claim to have one private one in Ibadan anyway. Can we safely conclude that those preachers i named are not WOF? To think you fellows have being itching to name names. Don' t disappoint ohhh. Also, kindly be clear on who these wannabes are. Is it Adeboye, or Oyedepo, or Kumuyi, or Oyakhilome, or who? Try to be as specific as you've been fighting to be. |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 11:49pm On Jul 21, 2014 |
trustman: You've not seen well. i understand drumb cannot see at all. If i attempted to punch holes in what you have said, you will be exasperated by now. i'd pick all your posts and 'punch' about every sentence. i only mistakenly wanted to take you serious only to read what i read. Viable solutionss have already being given in the mother thread 'that died', talk about playing the flute. Set right priorities. Its not news that there are false prophets and brethren around. What you're doing is not a solution but a subversion of careless souls. 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by trustman: 11:55pm On Jul 21, 2014 |
Image123: I think you are the one itching to see names named and you have indeed done some yourself. Why the fascination with names? Why not just learn so that whatever name presents a falsehood or error, today, tomorrow, whenever, you will be quick to spot it and take steps accordingly? 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 12:01am On Jul 22, 2014 |
trustman: what  ? why am i shocked? |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 5:20am On Jul 22, 2014 |
Image123: Thank you for rereading the text. It helps to solve a lot of confusion. Next, I sense the tendency for pettiness in your posts so far. A commitment to distract from the main issues being discussed and that is why of all that has been discussed by trust man and I on F7, all you are concerned with is "distinguishing feature". But even at that, the writer has not betrayed any inconsistency as you would have us believe. Like I explained to you, WOF is an American concept. Nigerians ministers who have such influences in their ministries are WANNABES. A wannabe cannot be like the original and so if we must discuss the concept and name names associated with it, what good would there be in naming wannabes? We name the originals. I have explained to you that despite the influence of WOF, we must thank God that holy laughter has not taken roots here though there are a very few. As to the Nigerian ministers you named, you are the one with an obsession to associate them with holy laughter. I have not; neither has trust man. No doubt everyone of those ministers have some influence of WOF in their ministries, to what degree is what I cannot ascertain. And this is the reason for this thread. Perhaps they or their followers will find this thread someday, weigh their doctrine and practice against scripture, as we are doing here, and find grace to shed off whatever does not have root in God and his Word. PS: As to your query with the word "THESE" and your claim that it must be associated with more than just laughter, again you are wrong. Trustmsn had titled that section of the post IS THIS A LAUGING MATTER? And then proceeded to enumerate THESE manifestations. So the manifestation were all certainly related to laughter. This what he said in using the words THESE: " Did you think for a moment that these were happening in a voodoo session? If so you’re wrong: these are occurrences in Christian meetings. In case you are wondering then what these are, the answer is this: these are ‘manifestations’ reported in “holy laughter” sessions – for real." Its clear that the THESE here used are for the manifestations in the laughter sessions. 2 Likes |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by DrummaBoy(m): 6:09am On Jul 22, 2014 |
For all who desire to access what has been discussed on this thread with ease, pls take advantage of this post below provided for navigation through the thread: https://www.nairaland.com/1790500/word-faith-movements-doctrine-proponents#24330864 1 Like |
| Re: Word Of Faith - The Movement's Doctrine And Proponents by Image123(m): 8:49pm On Jul 22, 2014 |
trustman: Oh me. Is this not what a certain Ihedinobi was kind of advocating, and your jolly friends were wringing scriptures? |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) ... (27) (Reply)
Why Are Yorubas Few In The Roman Catholic And Also Few Yoruba Revd Fathers? / COZA Church Gifts Widows Materials (Photos) / Pastor Dele Taiwo And Doyin His Wife Welcome Their First Child (Photos)
(Go Up)
| Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 176 |