shymexx:

Stop going on a tangent.

Where did the Ogisos drop from? Jupiter or Nibiru, since the folklore about Oduduwa is funny to you?

And all evidences, including the academic source about excavations by archaeologists show that Bini kings were actually buried in Ife. Can you please provide alternate sources to back up your claims?

Which academic source are you talking about? The one done by illiterates Yoruba historians who knows nothing or probably never visited Benin? Ododuwa did not fall from the sky as you are made to believe, you of all people should not buy into that myth.

Sweetlemon: One question please.

Why the hell are Yorubas and Igbos so obsessed with claiming SS tribes no matter how much we shout and scream that we are NOT and will NEVER be Yorubas/Igbos?

Madam, this is not about claiming people or land

No Yoruba here is claiming Bini but we only want to get the history straight...we are brothers and every Edo and Yoruba should know little bits of the history

macof:

Lol...yes my brother in law - an Esan who grew up in Benin told me that Oba doesn't see his first son..
Also I heard, Erediuwa did something so his father would die for him to be king as Oba always lives long...#just rumor o

He sent a word to his father, that is time for him to ascend throne, and the father also replied him by sending native chalk and salt to him saying "just as you are enjoying life, same with me"

It's true Oba does not see the heir to the throne, but the jinx have been broken now, the crown prince and the present Oba did that I think in 2012

crackhaus:
Finally, someone who reasons constructively and without tribal bias.
Your comment @emboldened is the reason why I try to steer clear of this Edo-Yoruba argument every time I come across it.

The origins of Oduduwa and Oranmiyan is and was never the start or birth of the Bini empire. this is what most people trying to force superiority don't seem to understand. As you rightly said, the Ogiso dynasty which spanned over 1000 years and produced the Ogiso rulers and kings was already in existence long before the Oranmiyan and Oduduwa era.

The Ogiso empire covered as far as Benin Republic (notice the name), Togo, and even parts of Ghana. Some historians have claimed that the Ashanti tribe of the Akan ethnic group in Ghana also have some history with the Ogisos.
Within Nigeria, the whole of mid-western region and Yoruba kingdom also formed part of the Ogiso empire, all this was before the arrival of the Portuguese who further enlightened the Bini people in modern (as at that time) skills and crafts with which they used to master the arts of bronze casting, metal works, clay handling and building, as well as enhancing trades between the Portuguese and the Binis via the closest port in 'Eko' which was also under Bini empire.


I think I'll stop here before I type my day away, the history of the Binis/Portuguese/British/Yoruba is quite extensive.

OMG! all lies....the bold is a complete lie from your father the Devil

Bini didn't become anything worth an empire until Ewuare the Great in 15th century...all these things you mentioned were achieved by Oba and not Ogiso

Btw Togo, Benin was never ruled by Bini empire...I know Bini had clashes with Ashanti as did Oyo. Oyo actually defeated Ashanti in several battles as assistance to her colony Dahomey.

Cotonou, porto novo, idasa, quidah etc. in Benin were controlled by Oyo

Porto novo is called Ajase in Yoruba and it was established by Oyo traders and Dahomeans

Eko was never, I repeat never Under Bini empire...I don't know where you people get this from
No lagosian in Lagos island would tell u Eko is Bini
Eko was a farmland for Awori who invited Ashipa to camp and protect their interest with his army
Oba of Lagos owns no land in the whole Lagos state...Oba Ado's only property is the palace built for him by the Awori on their farm

9jacrip: Fact: heads of Benin Kings have been buried in Ile-Ife since Eweka till the colonialist took a strong hold and it was stopped - the last 2 Benin Kings were buried in Benin with their complete parts.

Fact: Yoruba was the palace language in Benin until recently, I believe it was stopped by the present Oba because during the predecessor's time, Yoruba was still the palace language.

Benin Monarchy is different from Benin people who had been long in existence before Oranmiyan and Eweka. The Oranmiya/Eweka phenomenal effect was making Benin throne an offshoot and a 'junior' to Ife throne like other Yoruba thrones where Ife gives blessings and confirmation of every ascending king - in the case of Benin, it was furthered by making Yoruba the palace language and burial of Benin king parts in Ife.

The confusion we have today is as a result of egotistic kings who seek to slash history into bits just to be highly placed - above or equal to Ooni. Same is Ijebu with Sudan story. The effect of this egotistic agendas is why we are here arguing place of Oba Ado's death - in a few more decades starting from now, we will begin to argue Yoruba language was never Benin Palace language.

Soon, successful Benin kings will stop going to Ife for blessings and confirmation of kingship and we will start debating if previous Benin kings ever did.

True talk. Many don't just give a damn about history they just argue rubbish here on nairaland and even on the street..

Funny thing is these Bini supremacist don't know the smallest of Yoruba history

And their Oba is distorting history

It started from his father akensua who was uncomfortable with Ooni being his head in the old western region.
What did he expect??

Nigerian politics has destroyed our people

Sweetlemon:

Abegi shut it right there!!

As if I won't see a thread on front page tomorrow of Igbos claiming Aniomas or Ikweres or Ibibios or wherever same way Yorubas keep claiming Isheki and Edo people.

Over sentimental nonsense like you! mtcheeeeeew

We claim because we know what we share

Thank God isekiri are beginning to rediscover their bond with their brothers

Ubenedictus:

nobody in the bini royal family will ever listen to this. Bini was never ruled from ife. Before the eweka monachy was the ogiso dynasty. Ife was still a small village then, it didn't have tentacles.

Before oba eweka, bini was ruled by ogiso owodo, as the title "ogiso" implies, the igodomigodo dynasty was ruled by people who were believed to be rulers from heaven, the folklore still remains the the decendants of the ogisos own the whole world.

The ogiso were independent rulers of their people and they claimed divine right to do so, they thus were not and could not be under ife, who needed a stranger to take over its reins of leadership in the person of oduduwa.

Just as you claim that the source of the bini royal house is ife, the binis will claim that the source of the entire yoruba royal linage is from igodomigodo (igodo) through oduduwa. So the royal family didnt come from ife but was resident in ife.

Ife was never a small village...are u insane??
Ife has been the greatest city in the region far of more economic and military prowess than Ogiso's Igodomigodo.
Btw I never said Ogiso were under Ooni, I said Oba of Benin was under ooni...ooni gave him permission to rule.
It was Ooni that sent Oranmiyan to Bini, it was Oranmiyan that set the foundation for Obaship that Eweka 1 continued

did igodo chiefs not pledge allegiance to Olofin Adimula, known as Ogene Uhe to Bini
Does the Benin not have a praise to Adimula in the complete Eulogy of the Omo n'oba?
Did Ife not teach Bini bronze casting?

You should know that there are 13 obas in Ife till today and all "Obas" both in Ife and abroad were given authority to rule by Ogene uhe

Before any coronation Ogene must be seeked and grant his blessings...as every Oba of Bini was brought back to the land of his ancestors to be buried

You say Ife needed a stranger And Igodo needed wat? Who was Oranmiyan??

Oduduwa was not from Bini or igodo

Orlando Owoh: So far, no Bini has been able to dispute this with facts.

they can't. They just want to argue and fight

There's nothing to be so ashamed of here...it's history, afterall it's no longer practiced

Ubenedictus: actually dear, olukun and ogun were localised in yoruba land, they are actually bini god, and in bini, olokun isn't necessarily female, he is actually the SON of osanobua, ogun too, if you do a search on the origin of olokun worship u will be suprised.

Really, humour me about the yoruba influence in bini art.

see this pathetic liar, even in ur heart u know you are a damned liar

What has Bini got to do with ocean??

Olokun is Ijebu origin....and Ogun is Ekiti
Ogun is also in Akure, another in Ife and last in saki district of Oyo

Bronze casting was taught to bini by Ife

brownlord:

He sent a word to his father, that is time for him to ascend throne, and the father also replied him by sending native chalk and salt to him saying "just as you are enjoying life, same with me"

It's true Oba does not see the heir to the throne, but the jinx have been broken now, the crown prince and the present Oba did that I think in 2012

More royal traditions being modified...

Ubenedictus: erediawa's direct father akensua was actually buried in bini palance.

And correction, the ooni and the alaafin do not share the same bloodline, atleast not according to the alaafin.

The alaafin says the ooni is a slave who was suppose to keep the rituals going in ife.

Before Oba ovoranmwen(I hope I got the spelling) all obas were buried in Ife

Oba Adolo was the last in 1888

Alaafin's records are not complete...Alaafin has missed out the important fact that the so called slave son was Adimula, the first son of Akanbi, son of Oduduwa
and also that Oranmiyan returned to take his place on the throne of Oduduwa and his family continued the line till today

So don't try to correct me on what you know absolutely nothing about

mafioso2: When will the Yorubas stop all this trash about the Benin Kingdom, when?..i don't need any bias historian to tell me what i already know about Benin because i was born and raised here. Okay let's look at it this way the Binis believe that Oduduwa(Izeduwa) who was suppose to be killed but spared and instead a chicken was killed in replacement of him and the blood rubbed on the killers Machete to show to the then king. Excaped and became a king in Ife...when he sent his son too Oranmiyan who was suppose to be a king here but he had to run away probably the stories his father (Oduduwa) might have told him about Benin and he had to name the Land Ilu Ibinu and on his way back to Ife he impregnated a lady who was suppose to take care of him and the lady gave birth to a son and the lady's father was later made a duke(Enogie of Egor) If Oranmiyan was a feared warrior as the yoruba claimed why did he had to run away.

the same Oranmiyan who gave u a king...Wow Bini people can be so ungrateful smh

MacLovington: .

The Romans adopted many gods from Greece and even Egypt and many other places/colonies. Even Islam & Christianity of today are from the Middle East but Chris Oyakhilome & Adeboye are not suddenly from Israel.

Olokun has a meaning and Okun also has a meaning in Bini.

Benin Moats are far bigger than Erodo moats. Get your facts right.

In fact check ur encyclo. Benin moat was regarded as mankind's largest ever work BEFORE Chinese people suddenly claimed to have discovered extra miles of ancient walls.
Note that Benin & Sungbo walls were studied by independent scientists unlike the "new extra miles" by the Chinese.

I have both Bini & Yoruba heritage, I have no need to claim one is superior using bare-face lies.

The problem I see is that many people are not objective and they approach the matter with a massive bias.

I respect the Bini people as any one with a Great Yoruba consciousness would. But lack of knowledge in our history has made many loose their senses

I take every Bini and Edoid person has family but Nigerian politics won't let them open their eyes

jude33084:


Try to visit the Oba palace for a tour


It is free of charge no cost.




















The Yorubas said Oduduwa came from Heaven

Uh?? And where did Bini say Igodo came from?

Hypocrite!

ayewosa: So later when the people of Benin Kingdom came to Ife they search everywhere for their Oba. But couldn't find him, Oduduwa welcome them and ask them what they were looking for and they narrated all that happened, Oduduwa has already know he's the one they're talking about. So he told them he's the one they are looking for. The people from Benin Kingdom began to plead for forgiveness. So they told Oduduwa that he has to return with them to Benin Kingdom so that peace will reign again in the land. But Oduduwa told them he's old now and moreover he's the Oba here in Ife. So he decided he'll give them his first child to rule as king in the land of Benin Kingdom. The people of Benin Kingdom was thankful and return with the son of Oduduwa. The son of Oduduwa was not understanding bini language, he speaks only Yoruba. On getting to the palace in great Benin Kingdom. Peace return to the land and things were back to how it was from the beginning. The first few days when Oduduwa son came to the palace he didn't talk to anyone because of the language difference. So one afternoon when he was walking around the palace he saw some guards playing (Ayo game) that game you play with seeds. So he was interested and joined them, so why playing with them he won a turn and said in Yoruba Owomi ka ( my hand have caught it) so the the guards and elders watching shouted that the Oba has finally spoken his name. From there they called him Eweka. He was Eweka the first( Eweka I) the son was Eweka II. And so on like that. So the relationship between us the Benin and Yoruba is that we share the same great ancestors.
Please I didn't form this story it is how my dad told me. Have shared them with my room mate in my undergraduate days.

Thank you for your story...tho it's different from what I have learnt from my own research

tonychristopher:


the Benin chief must have invented dna testing which they did on the spot on oduduwa to ascertain his genealogy ....lol ...so ODUDUWA no fall from sky ...I used to think he was the fallen angel the demons chased away from the sky came down had siblings and children which are the YORUBAS


origin lol...but where do YORUBAS and Benin speak same language ...IJEBUS don't even speak same language with YORUBAS not to talk of far away Benin

Rubbish! Ijebu is a Yoruba language, different from standard Yoruba (Oyo) but it's Yoruba

tonychristopher:


yeah very CORRECT ...Benin I know very well ain't same with yoruba and as of olukumi...they are now more or less igbo cos they bear igbo names and hate been called yoruba and their igbo name is ukwu nzu which they are comfortable with

I understand Benin and yoruba but I just can not see any similarity

pls educate me on this

Benin believe they colonized YORUBAS and vassals ...pls elucidate on this pls

Olukumi are Yoruba by language and Igbo by culture

They have both Igbo and Yoruba names

baby_123:

I dont think either group conquered the other. They may have always had a link with the Oyo's/Ife. This is why the Oyo's/ife's as much as they are conqueror's never moved against Benin. At least not that i know of. Something is suspicious about that. I dont believe Oduduwa, if this story is true was a stranger to anyone, because history on the Yoruba end would have said so. A strange and exiled prince with such history would have come with an entourage which would have not gone unnoticed, nothing of the sort has been recorded on the Yoruba end.

Yoruba's have a way of passing down history in memorized songs/incantations. The story of falling from the sky is a mystical origin on Yoruba's and no Yoruba would have witnessed this coming if he was the first Yoruba. The Benin version says he went to Yoruba's who were already a people. That is the break in transmission of both stories. That is where the problem is.

My Guess to bring the link together: It could be that the original Oduduwa was a progenitor of a group of people and established a kingdom a long time before the Benin Oduduwa. The Benin Oduduwa probably was of a royal lineage of both groups. That will explain his easy acceptance. It would have been easy for him to go on exile in one of the related kingdoms. Where he would be treated well, be safe and comfortable. A royal prince will not take silly risks with strange people in a strange land, without an army. It would also have been easy for him to assume kingship position without any struggle because of his traceable lineage to a common ancestor which was probably the original Oduduwa. Just my guess. But i feel its more plausible. The Original Oduduwa may have been called something else.

What now stands out with this Oduduwa is that he was able to firmly establish his family, and truly organize both groups to unify them. He made sure his lineage held power and he planned it well. They are still in power till today.

Great observation...Oduduwa represents two things
1. the force of the formation of matter
2. The king of Ife

People should learn how to differentiate spirituality from history

politicalpastor:

You are so foolish , thank God you are not an history lecturer, it could have be a disaster to the children or students under you.
OBA OF BINIs has never be buried anywhere else , it was only oba ovoranmwen that was buried in the present day calabar
by the British in a controversial circumstances. ! Other than that all bini kings are buried in benin kingdom.
Pls go back and take history.

Before Oba ovoranmwen all Oba were buried in Ife...the last was Oba adolo

brownlord:

Our history is that a man descended from heaven with 100 demons and c0ck in his hand, he is the first man to be created by God, yet he had children and married someone, Holy sh1t.

Learn to spot the difference in spirituality and history

brownlord:

Which academic source are you talking about? The one done by illiterates Yoruba historians who knows nothing or probably never visited Benin? Ododuwa did not fall from the sky as you are made to believe, you of all people should not buy into that myth.

Where did Ogiso come from?

..

macof:

Before Oba ovoranmwen(I hope I got the spelling) all obas were buried in Ife

Oba Adolo was the last in 1888

Alaafin's records are not complete...Alaafin has missed out the important fact that the so called slave son was Adimula, the first son of Akanbi, son of Oduduwa
and also that Oranmiyan returned to take his place on the throne of Oduduwa and his family continued the line till today

So don't try to correct me on what you know absolutely nothing about

Really, so you even know more than the Alaafin, bro you guys know nothing about this history, even an uneducated person know's his father' farmland and boundary, saying Alaafin's record is not correct is an evidence that the bini's are right.

Orlando Owoh: According to Prof. I. A. Akinjogbin and Prof. E. A. Ayandele in "Yorubaland Up To 1800" in Groundwork of Nigerian History, edited by Obaro Ikimi, page 133, " . . . a living oba of Benin was prohibited from seeing Ile-Ife and why only his corpe (some say only his head) was brought back to Ife to be buried a place still called Orun Oba Ado (the heaven of the kings of Benin) in Ile-Ife.
"The present Oba continue to observe this eewo. In 1937, during an Oba's conference (pelupelu) held at Ife, he refused to stay in Ile-Ife. Instead he remained in Modakeke, outside the Ife wall for the duration of the conference."

What you have just said is untrue, it is a taboo for the oba to leave benin city, so there is no way he could ever have been in modakeke. For you all to know that tradition still stands. And one more thing the benin kingdom was way before ile-ife, and what the yoruba's gave to them was a royal lineage, none of oduduwas sons ever ruled benin.

macof:

Rubbish! Ijebu is a Yoruba language, different from standard Yoruba (Oyo) but it's Yoruba

Most people don't know that there is difference between language and dialect. The Yoruba that is mostly spoken is a 'corruption' of the Oyo dialect. The Oyo dialect is used in the translation of the Bible. Other Yoruba groups: Ijebu, Ijesha, Ife, Ondo, Akure, Sabe, Ketu, Owe, Owo, Ifon, Ekiti, etc have their dialects.

The king's palace or court is a square, and is as large as the town of Haarlem and entirely surrounded by a special wall, like that which encircles the town. It is divided into many magnificent palaces, houses, and apartments of the courtiers, and comprises beautiful and long square galleries, about as large as the Exchange at Amsterdam, but one larger than another, resting on wooden pillars, from top to bottom covered with cast copper, on which are engraved the pictures of their war exploits and battles..."

—Olfert Dapper

macof:

Olukumi are Yoruba by language and Igbo by culture

They have both Igbo and Yoruba names

dont call them oluknmi and they wont bear yoruba...but your statement is funny THEY ARE YORUBA BY LANGAUGE AND IGBO BY CULTURE...IT SOUNDS CONFUSING


LANGUAGE IS THE MAIN and cluture is INGRAINED in It AND FACTOR OF CULTURE.so automatically they are igbo...maybe not pure ones though

macof:


see this pathetic liar, even in ur heart u know you are a damned liar

What has Bini got to do with ocean??

Olokun is Ijebu origin....and Ogun is Ekiti
Ogun is also in Akure, another in Ife and last in saki district of Oyo

Bronze casting was taught to bini by Ife

ur lies and falsehoods no get part 2. Benin art predates Ife art. Bini's were d first 2 start bronze and brass casting cos they 1st came in contact with d portuguese in Nigeria. Prior 2 dat they made carvings and molding. Benin city had d 1st church in Nigeria from d portuguese missionaries that came in d 16th century. That's why Benin chiefs wear a cassock. "The King of Benin can in a single day make 20,000 men ready for war, and, if need be, 180,000, and because of this he has great influence among all the surrounding peoples. . . . His authority stretches over many cities, towns and villages. There is no King thereabouts who, in the possession of so many beautiful cities and towns, is his equal."

—Olfert Dapper,

macof:

Rubbish! Ijebu is a Yoruba language, different from standard Yoruba (Oyo) but it's Yoruba

but why do most of them claim they aint yoruba and they dont speak yoruba but ijebu just like eguns...maybe you will tell me that benin is yoruba also..cos i understand benin and I understand yoruba and i have not seen much similarity in both..they are different...just take the basic words like come,go,food,god,etc...they aint same in both languages

Foreign observers often commented favorably on Benin's discipline and organization as "better disciplined than any other Guinea nation", contrasting them with the slacker troops from the Gold Coast

brownlord:

Never heard of this, but it's true the King does not see the heir to the throne and as such is often used as parable. Oba e guoba dia, meaning a king is no slave to a king. But the present Oba broke the jinx in 2012.

wao!!! Gooddy him!that ancient tradition cant possibly stand in this jet age...gotta know n see who taking after,of cos.

macof:


Oduduwa is not what Brought Benin and Yoruba tribes together...before Oduduwa we used to have a good relationship

their is oba edare oodua of ife, i tried asking his son about the origin of oodua, unfortunately the guy knows nothing