honeric01:

Is this what you saw in your own bible or this is your own interpretation?

You mean the fall hasn't occurred yet? hehehe I think you are funny.

busy answering a confused fellow. You get time o. Imagine someone saying satan was casted to hell but later he will be casted to earth. Kai! Smh

chuxyz: If satan tempted man to sin against God, and we term satan the father of sin, then who tempted satan to also sin or rebel against God? Another Satan?

Your answer if you really need it is in scripture and it takes revelation to receive it but since you don't appear to be a Christian but want answers you can study the bible and you will get it if you open your heart to it.

Some hints:

1. God created man good and put him in a garden. In that garden there was a tree of the knowledge of good and evil and a tree of life. Man was given choice after the first law telling Him what to eat and what not.
For them not to even know they were naked means they were created 'uninstalled' as it were.

2. When man sinned, God said man has become like one of them KNOWING good and evil. Obviously God's earlier creations may have been created with ability not to die and have the complete knowledge of good and evil. Food for thought.

3. Why would God put a cherubim to guard the tree of life so man would not eat of it after his sin and live for ever? Hmmmmm.

4. Satan obviously never knew the severity and sovereignty of God and must have thought he would ascend without fail. He had something in him that man did not have at creation. Both man and Satan received rewards for what they did but one was given a ray of hope than the other for some reason.

5. A 'choice' aspect applied in all situations. And there was a plan in place by Jehovah, all knowing.


I hope you are not confused.

*If you think I am even beginning to answer your question then think again....how you decide to ponder and research on what I pasted will show if you really want answers.

chuxyz: thank you bro, the question de born pikin continuously. God created man on earth, saw no place to cast satan but on same earth(what about Jupita, Saturn and the rest? Or abyss sef) yet he placed the sins of father on us. I think God should try put himself in our shoes.

Many questions you people ask here arise cos of bad doctrines. Whether he put him in jupitar or mars, none of those places will stop him from entering the earth.

JMAN05:

Many questions you people ask here arise cos of bad doctrines. Whether he put him in jupitar or mars, none of those places will stop him from entering the earth.

His casting him here is for our benefit.

Satan is for our benefit?

Yet you believe satan is evil?


Christians eh.....

@op

Satan's action evidently arose cos of his selfish desires. james 1:13-15.

Those who will live in heaven have been declared righteous. God is going to make a choice from among humans, to select these few. He knows how to prevent any of such things from happening again. Remember those going to heaven were selected after carefully examining their conduct which was solidified through various trials. They worked for there being made perfect, unlike satan who was created so.

What you may not know is that after the destruction of bad persons that is on the way, humans on earth will enter into a 1000-year- long judgment day.

TheBigUrban2:

Satan is for our benefit?

Yet you believe satan is evil?


Christians eh.....

I never said the bold face sentence.

But the statement I made above is still in error, so I withdraw it.

The fact is: sending him to other planet wont hinder him from tempting those here.

twosquare: hell....>lucifer tempted Adam,....>Adam submitted authority(fell).....Lucifer ascended from the hell and take over(air)....>LAST DAYS >Men will join forces with Heavenly armies>Lucifer will be casted down frm air(heaven) to earth>filled with wrath>coz Lake of fire draws near.....

. Quote and Interpret the Scriptures, don't spray your personal opinion without any scriptural backup. (1) Where was it written that Satan was cast to hell, was it Literal or Figurative, What made you conclude that Satan has not been cast to the earth?, Where was it written that Satan will be cast out two different times? Answers please!

Alwaystrue:

Your answer if you really need it is in scripture and it takes revelation to receive it but since you don't appear to be a Christian but want answers you can study the bible and you will get it if you open your heart to it.

Some hints:

1. God created man good and put him in a garden. In that garden there was a tree of the knowledge of good and evil and a tree of life. Man was given choice after the first law telling Him what to eat and what not.
For them not to even know they were naked means they were created 'uninstalled' as it were.

2. When man sinned, God said man has become like one of them KNOWING good and evil. Obviously God's earlier creations may have been created with ability not to die and have the complete knowledge of good and evil. Food for thought.

3. Why would God put a cherubim to guard the tree of life so man would not eat of it after his sin and live for ever? Hmmmmm.

4. Satan obviously never knew the severity and sovereignty of God and must have thought he would ascend without fail. He had something in him that man did not have at creation. Both man and Satan received rewards for what they did but one was given a ray of hope than the other for some reason.

5. A 'choice' aspect applied in all situations. And there was a plan in place by Jehovah, all knowing.


I hope you are not confused.

*If you think I am even beginning to answer your question then think again....how you decide to ponder and research on what I pasted will show if you really want answers.

thanks for your time. But why should you think i don't know all that? I am only interested in know how satan's mind was manipulated. Did it happen suddenly? If so, won't such thought come up again after we must have gone to heaven? I hope you understand where i'm heading to this time around. Thanks

JMAN05:

Many questions you people ask here arise cos of bad doctrines. Whether he put him in jupitar or mars, none of those places will stop him from entering the earth.

who told you? Since he was casted out of heaven has he gone back to heaven to rebel or accuse other angels?

chuxyz: I have been pondering over this time after time but have got no answers. Even so called pastors will only meander around the question and end up coming out with no answer. Now the question is this: If satan tempted man to sin against God, and we term satan the father of sin, then who tempted satan to also sin or rebel against God? Another Satan? If your answer is NOBODY, that means when we all have been raptured and gone to heaven, wont that same NOBODY tempt man to rebel against God again? And we will all start from square-one again back on earth. Please i need insightful answers only. Thanks.

Lucifer or satan was considered to be the
most beautiful of all of God's angelic
creations, the thing about lucifer was
though that he had an ego and he
thought that he should be just like God
too having all knowledge and all power. The angels of heaven loved and
worshipped God above all else and out of
egotistical jealousy Lucifer becomes
jealous and demands to be treated as God
and worshipped as God. But God denied
him this. Then God on the sixth day of creation
after creating man, announces to the
angels of heaven about his creation of
man. Lucifer asks God why he created
man and God states so that God could be
loved and worshipped by yet another being of His creation besides the angels.
Lucifer asks God will they love you
because you command it from them and
God answers yes because I am their
creator. Lucifer then challenges God and
states that if God expects man to love him and worship him, it must not be
because God commands it, man must
have the right to choose whether or not
to do so. Thus the rift in heaven and the creation
of "Free Choice" for man. God declares though that the angels of
heaven do not have this Freedom to
choose and that Lucifer and anyone who
would follow his ways of thinking must
leave heaven and live amongst man on
earth.

malvisguy212: Lucifer or satan was considered to be the
most beautiful of all of God's angelic
creations, the thing about lucifer was
though that he had an ego and he
thought that he should be just like God
too having all knowledge and all power. The angels of heaven loved and
worshipped God above all else and out of
egotistical jealousy Lucifer becomes
jealous and demands to be treated as God
and worshipped as God. But God denied
him this. Then God on the sixth day of creation
after creating man, announces to the
angels of heaven about his creation of
man. Lucifer asks God why he created
man and God states so that God could be
loved and worshipped by yet another being of His creation besides the angels.
Lucifer asks God will they love you
because you command it from them and
God answers yes because I am their
creator. Lucifer then challenges God and
states that if God expects man to love him and worship him, it must not be
because God commands it, man must
have the right to choose whether or not
to do so. Thus the rift in heaven and the creation
of "Free Choice" for man. God declares though that the angels of
heaven do not have this Freedom to
choose and that Lucifer and anyone who
would follow his ways of thinking must
leave heaven and live amongst man on
earth.

bible quotes please

RikoduoSennin: . Quote and Interpret the Scriptures, don't spray your personal opinion without any scriptural backup. (1) Where was it written that Satan was cast to hell, was it Literal or Figurative, What made you conclude that Satan has not been cast to the earth?, Where was it written that Satan will be cast out two different times? Answers please!

check my posts on this thread,you'll find answers to your question.

chuxyz: who told you? Since he was casted out of heaven has he gone back to heaven to rebel or accuse other angels?

When he was in heaven, he was operating from there, do you think that his being sent to jupitar will mar him from coming to earth? We are talking about a spirit here.

God has a way of handling him, ie to "chain and throw him into abyss". this is in God's plan.

This is a million dolla question, hope there is priceoo. But to your question: The bible said God(them; including the satan as angel) made man(us) in his image; i understand that to mean qualities. Take satan out of the picture, the natural man aspires ceaselessly for power/better position all through his life time even pastors. No matter where they are they are not satisfied. I believe this quality is what satan also exhibited rather extremely and unfortunately for him. This insatiable quest for position inherent in us is why you see people like Baba Iyabo,the other baba and the other one wey loose election that time want 20 tenures. I no call body nameoo, no be their fault sha

malvisguy212: Lucifer or satan was considered to be the
most beautiful of all of God's angelic
creations, the thing about lucifer was
though that he had an ego and he
thought that he should be just like God
too having all knowledge and all power. The angels of heaven loved and
worshipped God above all else and out of
egotistical jealousy Lucifer becomes
jealous and demands to be treated as God
and worshipped as God. But God denied
him this. Then God on the sixth day of creation
after creating man, announces to the
angels of heaven about his creation of
man. Lucifer asks God why he created
man and God states so that God could be
loved and worshipped by yet another being of His creation besides the angels.
Lucifer asks God will they love you
because you command it from them and
God answers yes because I am their
creator. Lucifer then challenges God and
states that if God expects man to love him and worship him, it must not be
because God commands it, man must
have the right to choose whether or not
to do so. Thus the rift in heaven and the creation
of "Free Choice" for man. God declares though that the angels of
heaven do not have this Freedom to
choose and that Lucifer and anyone who
would follow his ways of thinking must
leave heaven and live amongst man on
earth.

is the God you are talking about here same as the all knowing and all powerful God? if he is all knowing why is he accepting a challenge from lucifer his creation?

why would God answer 'yes, because i am their creator' to lucifer only for him to be proven wrong by lucifer?

how can you write the above and still believe God is all knowing and all powerful?

how can the creation challenge the creator? or was lucifer not his creation?

and this does not answer the question... how did lucifer conceive evil thought?

from where did these thoughts come from?

if he was created perfect... how did imperfect evil thought come into his mind

if he was not created perfect how could a good and perfect God, devoid of evil create an imperfect being? what did he stand to gain? why is he angry at the imperfection he created?

frank317:

is the God you are talking about here same as the all knowing and all powerful God? if he is all knowing why is he accepting a challenge from lucifer his creation?

why would God answer 'yes, because i am their creator' to lucifer only for him to be proven wrong by lucifer?

how can you write the above and still believe God is all knowing and all powerful?

how can the creation challenge the creator? or was lucifer not his creation?

and this does not answer the question... how did lucifer conceive evil thought?

from where did these thoughts come from?

if he was created perfect... how did imperfect evil thought come into his mind

if he was not created perfect how could a good and perfect God, devoid of evil create an imperfect being? what did he stand to gain? why is he angry at the imperfection he created?

Soo many question , not that I don't have answer to your question , but if I answer them, it will result to more more and more question, that why you don't know the affer of God, I believe there is prophecy God made at the beginning of creation is not in genesis because is not relevent to salvation,we are contented with the little we know about God, those who seek for more answer about God will not get it until the time is right,if you don't believe in God, do not blasphemy his name , I know it is the devil that make you do so because this dosent make sense at all , someone you are so sure did not exist why blasphemy his name? Is like a man insulted a baby when the baby is not yet born. Thank you for your time,peace.

frank317:


(1) How can the creation challenge the creator? (2) Or was lucifer not his creation?

(3) How did lucifer conceive evil thought?

(4) From where did these thoughts come from?

(5) If he was created perfect... how did imperfect evil thought come into his mind

.
(1) The same way a subject can challenge his ruler/king/president or a slave his master. NB: Satan did not challenge God's power, he merely raise an issue with God's right to rule all his creation("....you will be LIKE God, knowing good and bad". All intelligent being choosing what is right and wrong by themselves.

(2) Ofcourse God created the angel who later became Satan the devil.

(3) The same way Humans do- desires of our heart (James 1:14,15). After all we are conscious beings with MIND.

(4) From his figurative heart/mind- the seat of his consciousness. (Ezekiel 28:12-17)

(5) The way a well trained child decides to become a thief and a murderer. In the beginning Lucifer lied and opposed God's right to rule humans hence a perfect angel such as him became Satan (opposer/resister) and devil (liar/slanderer). The same way a good man becomes a criminal only after committing a crime.

Perfect Man Adam was not deceived, He choose on his own to disobey God because he loved his wife more than God-hence he lost his perfection just the same way a computer program is no longer perfect if it has an error within its code.

malvisguy212: Soo many question , not that I don't have answer to your question , but if I answer them, it will result to more more and more question, that why you don't know the affer of God, I believe there is prophecy God made at the beginning of creation is not in genesis because is not relevent to salvation,we are contented with the little we know about God, those who seek for more answer about God will not get it until the time is right,if you don't believe in God, do not blasphemy his name , I know it is the devil that make you do so because this dosent make sense at all , someone you are so sure did not exist why blasphemy his name? Is like a man insulted a baby when the baby is not yet born. Thank you for your time,peace.

how i wish u answered my questions... i know you are contented with the little you know about God. this means you dont know the answers as you claimed but you are ok with the little you know. i prefer when you reply me in honesty and not trying to be cunning.

well you are contented with what u know but i am not and that is why i am asking. if i dont get answers then i will come to a conclusion that everything told to us about God is false. i dont know what you mean by blasphemy here. thats not my interest, but that wouldnt stop me from criticizing and analyzing somthing that does not look right to me. thanks.

RikoduoSennin: .
(1) The same way a subject can challenge his ruler/king/president or a slave his master. NB: Satan did not challenge God's power, he merely raise an issue with God's right to rule all his creation("....you will be LIKE God, knowing good and bad". All intelligent being choosing what is right and wrong by themselves.

dont get it twisted. you make ordinary out of God when you compare him with earthly rulers like king/president and slaves. this shows how you belittle your God. a slave can challenge a master because at the back of a slaves mind he knows all humans are equal and that the master is in that position because of opportunity. unless you are trying to tell me this is the same situation between devil and God. God is the creator, there is no comparison between him and his creation. the gap is far far apart. without the creator the creation will not exist, the creation will not have certain powers to use... if slave can respect their ordinary masters who were created equally with them, Satan should be terribly afraid to talk to his creator who brought him into being.
he shouldn't raise any issue, he had no say on how God decided to deal with his creations (even him) before everything was created.

(2) Ofcourse God created the angel who later became Satan the devil.

or perhaps, God created him so that he can become satan the devil... mayb that was the sole purpose of creating him, except you are trying to tell me the angelic satan took him by surprise(and wouldnt that be laughable?)

(3) The same way Humans do- desires of our heart (James 1:14,15). After all we are conscious beings with MIND.

no no no... we know that the presence of the devil and eating of the fruits led to the fall of man thereby opening our eyes and mid to evil desires. or did satan eat any fruit too? pls i will repeat the question, "How did Satan conceive evil?" dont be hasty in answering, think and let the holy spirit guide you.

(4) From his figurative heart/mind- the seat of his consciousness. (Ezekiel 28:12-17)

please erase and re-answer after reading my reply to answer number three. the seat of his consciousness can come up with evil if it was not capable of conceiving evil or did the creator create it in a way that it had the ability to conceive evil? wouldnt that be funny given the way the creator reacts to evil?

(5) The way a well trained child decides to become a thief and a murderer. In the beginning Lucifer lied and opposed God's right to rule humans hence a perfect angel such as him became Satan (opposer/resister) and devil (liar/slanderer). The same way a good man becomes a criminal only after committing a crime.

young man, stop comparing humans who are offsprings of fallen Adam to satan who had no evil mentor. you seem not to understand your bible. do you even know about the fall of man? we all know what led to the fall of man. stop talking as if it is the same thing thta led to the fall of satan.

Perfect Man Adam was not deceived, He choose on his own to disobey God because he loved his wife more than God-hence he lost his perfection just the same way a computer program is no longer perfect if it has an error within its code.

adam was not deceived? what was the role of the serpent? why was the serpent punished. ok, if Adam was not deceived that mean God already created us with the ability to fall in the first place... why was he angry, remember he is all knowing too.

frank317:

dont get it twisted. you make ordinary out of God when you compare him with earthly rulers like king/president and slaves. this shows how you belittle your God. a slave can challenge a master because at the back of a slaves mind he knows all humans are equal and that the master is in that position because of opportunity. unless you are trying to tell me this is the same situation between devil and God. God is the creator, there is no comparison between him and his creation. the gap is far far apart. without the creator the creation will not exist, the creation will not have certain powers to use... if slave can respect their ordinary masters who were created equally with them, Satan should be terribly afraid to talk to his creator who brought him into being.
he shouldn't raise any issue, he had no say on how God decided to deal with his creations (even him) before everything was created.

It seems you don't get me, well this will help. Try reading the bible, I will let it answer you;

(1) Yes God created all things, but his relationship with all his intelligent creations goes beyond "Creator and Created". The bible calls the angels-"Sons of God"- Job 1:6; 2:1. Adam is called the son of God- Luke 3:38, Other humans are called Sons of God- Rom 8:14. Jesus used illustrations to describe God as a loving Father. So even if humans and the demons (fallen angels) fear God that doesn't mean they can't do bad things- James 2:19. We were not created as a Robot-who is programme to obey every command of its maker- intelligent beings like man and the angels can choose to do what they like.

frank317:


or perhaps, God created him so that he can become satan the devil... mayb that was the sole purpose of creating him, except you are trying to tell me the angelic satan took him by surprise(and wouldnt that be laughable?)

(2) He was not created with evil in him, he chose to become evil. Ezekiel 28:15 " You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till iniquity was found in you."

frank317:


no no no... we know that the presence of the devil and eating of the fruits led to the fall of man thereby opening our eyes and mid to evil desires. or did satan eat any fruit too? pls i will repeat the question, "How did Satan conceive evil?" dont be hasty in answering, think and let the holy spirit guide you.

(3) Hear what the creator says in his own mouth about your question. Ezekiel 28:17 "Your heart was proud because of your beauty, YOU corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. " Satan's inner thought lead him to sin. James 1:14,15 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed, when the desires has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.

frank317:


please erase and re-answer after reading my reply to answer number three. the seat of his consciousness can come up with evil if it was not capable of conceiving evil or did the creator create it in a way that it had the ability to conceive evil? wouldnt that be funny given the way the creator reacts to evil?

(4) Intelligences, Consciousness and the Freedom to choose what we do. Both angels (which satan was formerly a member) and Humans were not created as a Robot whose sole purpose is to obey/Follow every whim of its creator.

frank317:


young man, stop comparing humans who are offsprings of fallen Adam to satan who had no evil mentor. you seem not to understand your bible. do you even know about the fall of man? we all know what led to the fall of man. stop talking as if it is the same thing thta led to the fall of satan.

(5) Well, the Fall of Man and Satan happened the same day, hence Satan also being called the original serpent (Rev 12:9). Prior to that event how did Satan commit Murder and lie as Jesus pointed out was Satan fall in the beggining- John 8:44.

frank317:


adam was not deceived? what was the role of the serpent? why was the serpent punished. ok, if Adam was not deceived that mean God already created us with the ability to fall in the first place... why was he angry, remember he is all knowing too.

(6) Remove your preconceived ideas from your mind please. 1 Timothy 2:14 " and Adam was NOT DECEIVED, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Gen 3:1-6 confirms it, think, did the Serpent speak directly to Adam? Did Eve force deceive him? No!! God is all-Knowing? I never said that! Gen 22:12 " He said, Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him, FOR NOW I KNOW that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me" . Gen 6:6,7 "and the LORD was SORRY that he had made man on the earth and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground...for I am SORRY that I have made them" . Would you regret what you already know will happen?

RikoduoSennin:

It seems you don't get me, well this will help. Try reading the bible, I will let it answer you;

(1) Yes God created all things, but his relationship with all his intelligent creations goes beyond "Creator and Created". The bible calls the angels-"Sons of God"- Job 1:6; 2:1. Adam is called the son of God- Luke 3:38, Other humans are called Sons of God- Rom 8:14. Jesus used illustrations to describe God as a loving Father. So even if humans and the demons (fallen angels) fear God that doesn't mean they can't do bad things- James 2:19. We were not created as a Robot-who is programme to obey every command of its maker- intelligent beings like man and the angels can choose to do what they like.



(2) He was not created with evil in him, he chose to become evil. Ezekiel 28:15 " You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till iniquity was found in you."





(3) Hear what the creator says in his own mouth about your question. Ezekiel 28:17 "Your heart was proud because of your beauty, YOU corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. " Satan's inner thought lead him to sin. James 1:14,15 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed, when the desires has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.




(4) Intelligences, Consciousness and the Freedom to choose what we do. Both angels (which satan was formerly a member) and Humans were not created as a Robot whose sole purpose is to obey/Follow every whim of its creator.




(5) Well, the Fall of Man and Satan happened the same day, hence Satan also being called the original serpent (Rev 12:9). Prior to that event how did Satan commit Murder and lie as Jesus pointed out was Satan fall in the beggining- John 8:44.



(6) Remove your preconceived ideas from your mind please. 1 Timothy 2:14 " and Adam was NOT DECEIVED, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Gen 3:1-6 confirms it, think, did the Serpent speak directly to Adam? Did Eve force deceive him? No!! God is all-Knowing? I never said that! Gen 22:12 " He said, Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him, FOR NOW I KNOW that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me" . Gen 6:6,7 "and the LORD was SORRY that he had made man on the earth and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground...for I am SORRY that I have made them" . Would you regret what you already know will happen?

in other words God created in all of us (both angels and man) the probability to commit evil(do bad) and the probability to do good and left the choice for us to choose when necessary? please answer me.

while you answer remember everything that started on earth was wheeled by God.

you said Satan's inner thought led him to sin... ok, did Satan create himself? did he give himself the ability to have an evil inner thought?

you just repeated my question "How did satan conceive evil?" by replying "Satan's inner thought led him to sin." how is that an answer to my question. again did satan create himself? did man create himself? how did man get the ability to be proud and wicked?

what did the creator put in his creation that made this behaviour possible?

frank317:

in other words God created in all of us (both angels and man) the probability to commit evil(do bad) and the probability to do good and left the choice for us to choose when necessary? please answer me.

.

A Child is like a blank slate until he choose his own path or if his path he chosen for him.

frank317:
you said Satan's inner thought led him to sin... ok, did Satan create himself? did he give himself the ability to have an evil inner thought?

Do you really understand what it means for an Artificial Intelligence to become Self Aware- it is free to do as it please, without its creator pre-programming it so. So because you gave birth to a child, it means every evil act he commits is because of your DNA, is it?

frank317:
did satan create himself? did man create himself? how did man get the ability to be proud and wicked?

Yes both Satan and Man were created beings, Just like some chidren do not inherit some traits from their Parents, Proud and Wicked Men imitate the actions of Satan who was the first sinner.

frank317:
what did the creator put in his creation that made this behaviour possible?

Free will, Choice, intelligence . If you believe you were created- why is that you could choose to Obey his command or not. If you do not believe in a Creator- why would any being tell us that being Proud and Wicked is bad, What right does any being have to say so or otherwise. We can choose what is right and wrong by ourself even if others say otherwise.

frank317:

or perhaps, God created him so that he can become satan the devil... mayb that was the sole purpose of creating him, except you are trying to tell me the angelic satan took him by surprise(and wouldnt that be laughable?)

.

Having gone through your posts here, i appreciate the calm manner you ve been responding to people's posts here even when you dont agree with them. Let me make my contributions and views to your post.

I believe Lucifer did not take God by surprise. God was aware of everything about Lucifer before even creating him. He is an all knowing God according to the description given in the scripture about him. This simply tells that there is a purpose behind why God allowed Lucifer go the way he did. I mean God is a creator, he couldnt have created without a purpose.

RikoduoSennin:

It seems you don't get me, well this will help. Try reading the bible, I will let it answer you;

(1) Yes God created all things, but his relationship with all his intelligent creations goes beyond "Creator and Created". The bible calls the angels-"Sons of God"- Job 1:6; 2:1. Adam is called the son of God- Luke 3:38, Other humans are called Sons of God- Rom 8:14. Jesus used illustrations to describe God as a loving Father. So even if humans and the demons (fallen angels) fear God that doesn't mean they can't do bad things- James 2:19. We were not created as a Robot-who is programme to obey every command of its maker- intelligent beings like man and the angels can choose to do what they like.



(2) He was not created with evil in him, he chose to become evil. Ezekiel 28:15 " You were blameless in your ways from the day you were created till iniquity was found in you."





(3) Hear what the creator says in his own mouth about your question. Ezekiel 28:17 "Your heart was proud because of your beauty, YOU corrupted your wisdom for the sake of your splendour. " Satan's inner thought lead him to sin. James 1:14,15 "But each one is tempted when he is drawn away by his own desires and enticed, when the desires has conceived, it gives birth to sin, and sin when it is fully grown brings forth death.




(4) Intelligences, Consciousness and the Freedom to choose what we do. Both angels (which satan was formerly a member) and Humans were not created as a Robot whose sole purpose is to obey/Follow every whim of its creator.




(5) Well, the Fall of Man and Satan happened the same day, hence Satan also being called the original serpent (Rev 12:9). Prior to that event how did Satan commit Murder and lie as Jesus pointed out was Satan fall in the beggining- John 8:44.



(6) Remove your preconceived ideas from your mind please. 1 Timothy 2:14 " and Adam was NOT DECEIVED, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression. Gen 3:1-6 confirms it, think, did the Serpent speak directly to Adam? Did Eve force deceive him? No!! God is all-Knowing? I never said that! Gen 22:12 " He said, Do not lay your hand on the lad or do anything to him, FOR NOW I KNOW that you fear God, seeing you have not withheld your son, your only son from me" . Gen 6:6,7 "and the LORD was SORRY that he had made man on the earth and it grieved him to his heart. So the LORD said, I will blot out man whom I have created from the face of the ground...for I am SORRY that I have made them" . Would you regret what you already know will happen?

You need a handshake, beautiful.. You must be a student of the Theocratic Ministry School.

alexleo:

Having gone through your posts here, i appreciate the calm manner you ve been responding to people's posts here even when you dont agree with them. Let me make my contributions and views to your post.

I believe Lucifer did not take God by surprise. God was aware of everything about Lucifer before even creating him. He is an all knowing God according to the description given in the scripture about him. This simply tells that there is a purpose behind why God allowed Lucifer go the way he did. I mean God is a creator, he couldnt have created without a purpose.

God has the ability to foreknow, but he does not use it always. My brother, I think this is the logical conclusion we can reach from what we learn from the bible.

It is true that many people agree that God has predestined everything, but the scriptures leaves us in doubt of that doctrine. In short, that will make God, not only cruel, but wicked. Lets think about it this way.

If we subscribe to the believe that God predestined everything, it means that God created the Devil, God brought temptation, God brought death. It means that God created people to be evil and then punish those evil men for being evil. Is that the God you serve?

Now, for those that believes in hellfire, muse:

God created the Devil to tempt people, God created many people to be bad persons, and when they act out the role to which they have been predestined, God will hurl them into an eternal fire to be burned over things they were created to be. Is that the kind of "God" you serve?

It also means that God created atheists to be atheists, so why do you criticize them for being atheists? Is it not God who is to blame for making them so? How can "God" create Adam and Eve, knowing that the Devil He will be sending will catch them alive, and the same "God" comes and said that He desired no one to be destroye? 2Pet 3:9

How can there be anyone who will not be destroyed, when it is his will, it was His making for billions to be destroyed?

Why should anyone pray against the Devil or label Him bad, when "God" created him so? Shouldn't "God" be blamed instead? How can a robot be held responsible for its actions?

Think about it bro.

JMAN05:

God has the ability to foreknow, but he does not use it always. My brother, I think this is the logical conclusion we can reach from what we learn from the bible.

It is true that many people agree that God has predestined everything, but the scriptures leaves us in doubt of that doctrine. In short, that will make God, not only cruel, but wicked. Lets think about it this way.

If we subscribe to the believe that God predestined everything, it means that God created the Devil, God brought temptation, God brought death. It means that God created people to be evil and then punish those evil men for being evil. Is that the God you serve?

Now, for those that believes in hellfire, muse:

God created the Devil to tempt people, God created many people to be bad persons, and when they act out the role to which they have been predestined, God will hurl them into an eternal fire to be burned over things they were created to be. Is that the kind of "God" you serve?

It also means that God created atheists to be atheists, so why do you criticize them for being atheists? Is it not God who is to blame for making them so? How can "God" create Adam and Eve, knowing that the Devil He will be sending will catch them alive, and the same "God" comes and said that He desired no one to be destroye? 2Pet 3:9

How can there be anyone who will not be destroyed, when it is his will, it was His making for billions to be destroyed?

Why should anyone pray against the Devil or label Him bad, when "God" created him so? Shouldn't "God" be blamed instead? How can a robot be held responsible for its actions?

Think about it bro.

Well i understand what you are saying but i beg to disagree with you bro. One thing we christians have done over the years is trying to defend God and it is this defence that has always brought unsatisfactory answers to this lucifer question. And thats what you ve done in your post hence my disagreement with your submission. If you can keep an open mind now we could discuss it. I mean dont defend God and dont also abuse him. Just keep an open mind and accept the descriptions that the scripture gave about him and relate it to our points and lets see what we can arrive at. Are you ok with that?

one thing yhu people fail to realise is this....
God our Eternal father... created all things...(Planets..galaxies etc...)...He also created all creatures(Angels and Humans)....God didn't create a defective angel that would later rebel and become Satan... in every being God created... he gave FREE CHOICE(or how i call it.. AGENCY)......We all have the freedom of choice..we can choose to Worship God... or we can choose to live a life of Sin...
but beware..
we have the freedom to choose our actions
but we do not have the freedom to.choose the consequences of our actions.....
The rebellion in Heaven.. is Enough proof that God gave his angels freedom of choice.
. ask your self... y didn't God immediately destroy Lucifer when that evil thought of rebellion came into.his mind
In Gods INFINITE wisdom..he knew the best thing to do..was to let it run its course...if yhu want more answers...
y don't yhu live a good Christ like life here.on earth...
when yhu get to Heaven..
yhu can ask God himself...

ikes9: one thing yhu people fail to realise is this....
God our Eternal father... created all things...(Planets..galaxies etc...)...He also created all creatures(Angels and Humans)....God didn't create a defective angel that would later rebel and become Satan... in every being God created... he gave FREE CHOICE(or how i call it.. AGENCY)......We all have the freedom of choice..we can choose to Worship God... or we can choose to live a life of Sin...
but beware..
we have the freedom to choose our actions
but we do not have the freedom to.choose the consequences of our actions.....
The rebellion in Heaven.. is Enough proof that God gave his angels freedom of choice.
. ask your self... y didn't God immediately destroy Lucifer when that evil thought of rebellion came into.his mind
In Gods INFINITE wisdom..he knew the best thing to do..was to let it run its course...if yhu want more answers...
y don't yhu live a good Christ like life here.on earth...
when yhu get to Heaven..
yhu can ask God himself...

Yeah you are right that God gave us freewill but the question here now is- Since God is all-knowing, did he know that Lucifer will fall before he created him or did lucifer's action take him unawares? If he knew, then what made him to go ahead and create him, and if he didnt know, then does that not mean that he is not all-knowing? Whats your take on this pls?

alexleo:

Having gone through your posts here, i appreciate the calm manner you ve been responding to people's posts here even when you dont agree with them. Let me make my contributions and views to your post.

I believe Lucifer did not take God by surprise. God was aware of everything about Lucifer before even creating him. He is an all knowing God according to the description given in the scripture about him. This simply tells that there is a purpose behind why God allowed Lucifer go the way he did. I mean God is a creator, he couldnt have created without a purpose.

Thank u very much for this answr. If this answer had come since this thread wouldn't have reach 2 pages.

What most christians don't know is that people just don't make decision to be atheists without think so religious doctrines through. Most times sincere answers such as this help in leting them get their minds of some things.

@Rikoduosennin, I am nt satisfied with ur answer and I would advice you to reevaluate this line of thinking u are threadin on. Stop comparing man and child reatioship with man and God. They are different. Man is not the creator of his child according to christian doctrine. He does nt give his child the ability to think. But God gave man the ability to think because without God man would not know what thinkin or choice making is. So I don't know why u keep repeating yourself in the name of answerin my question.

I want to quote u 'a child is like a blank slate until he choses his path' this quote simply means u don't even understand my dilimma.
A blank slate, yes, bt chose from what option? Who made the option possible? (Assuming lucifer was the child here), was the evil the child chose already existin before the creator started creating? If not how did satan conceive the evil option?
Ok, the creator gave him freedom, wouldn't the creator provide what his creation would chose from with the freedom he gave?

At this state I expect a more intelligent answer from u, thanx

When Christians begin to use logical reasonings to question God's ways, that is the beginning of apostasy. This is a sign of the last days, so beware. Remember, the foolishness of God is better than the wisdom of man.

Christians, do the needful while on earth. Serve God and keep His commandments. When we get to heaven, we'll understand all these things.

alexleo:

Yeah you are right that God gave us freewill but the question here now is- Since God is all-knowing, did he know that Lucifer will fall before he created him or did lucifer's action take him unawares? If he knew, then what made him to go ahead and create him, and if he didnt know, then does that not mean that he is not all-knowing? Whats your take on this pls?

The death of Christ on the cross was done even before God created Adam and Eve. Does that answer your question?

frank317:

is the God you are talking about here same as the all knowing and all powerful God? if he is all knowing why is he accepting a challenge from lucifer his creation?

why would God answer 'yes, because i am their creator' to lucifer only for him to be proven wrong by lucifer?

how can you write the above and still believe God is all knowing and all powerful?

how can the creation challenge the creator? or was lucifer not his creation?

and this does not answer the question... how did lucifer conceive evil thought?

from where did these thoughts come from?

if he was created perfect... how did imperfect evil thought come into his mind

if he was not created perfect how could a good and perfect God, devoid of evil create an imperfect being? what did he stand to gain? why is he angry at the imperfection he created?

Thank you!!!