alutacontinua:

lol, you must have a problem with English Language.

if you can't see the correlation between the quote from your link and what I originally typed, what can I say?

I specifically stated some things (the paramesonephric duct to be precise) has to regress in a male fetus, else, na uterus and cervix him go get.


Unlike you, I didn't learn this from random links on the internet
I actually do know it

You have the problem with English. You specifically said they all start female which is not true. What we see is they develop features for both and when the cycle of development calls for sex differentiation the other regresses. How does androgynous translate to 'they all start female'?

LordReed:

You have the problem with English. You specifically said they all start female which is not true. What we see is the develop features for both and when the cycle of development calls for sex differentiation the others regresses. How does androgynous translate to 'they all start female'?

aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh
early monday morning for Christ's sake. I don't even know where the post is again to quote ot but if I can still remember, I said the grandscheme is for all to be females, meaning if the regression doesn't happen, we all will come out female. If the development just continued without the regression, you'll be a woman (not sure you ain't one anyways ) KAPUT?

some people were using the whole thing as a point for argument and I just pointed it out, didn't even see it's relevance to their argument anyways.


Guy, I'll walk you through the stages of fertilization and sexual differentiation without a single link. Stop trying! Thanks!

alutacontinua:


aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhhh
early monday morning for Christ's sake. I don't even know where the post is again to quote ot but if I can still remember, I said the grandscheme is for all to be females, meaning if the regression doesn't happen, we all will come out female. If the development just continued without the regression, you'll be a woman (not sure you ain't one anyways ) KAPUT?

some people were using the whole thing as a point for argument and I just pointed it out, didn't even see it's relevance to their argument anyways.


Guy, I'll walk you through the stages of fertilization and sexual differentiation without a single link. Stop trying! Thanks!

You are confused. Do fetuses have both features for male and female prior to differentiation, yes or no?

Kay17:

Holy books are not relevant in this discussion, because with holy books the most monstrous evils can be justified and have been justified.

You are speaking from your experience and because of the class of women that surround you. Probably your mother and your sisters and your wife are the lily livered women which everyone despises and marches over, but it is unhealthy to overgeneralise and believe all the women in the entire world behave like your mother and sisters.

However for me, Angela Merkel, Golda Meir and Dilma Rousseff are not such women. They are models of leadership for everyone.

dis I mention just holy book, understand the intent of my post and stop being legalistic.

I haven't generalised per se, but I have used the majority'..

LordReed:

You are confused. Do fetuses have both features for male and female prior to differentiation, yes or no?

sex organs arise majorly from 2 ducts: mesonephric and paramesonephric.
in the absence of the mullerian Inhibiting factor, the paramesonephric goes on to develop into the female organs. In other words, the original plan is to be female. In the presence of MIF from the sertoli cells in the testes, the paramesonephric/mullerian duct regresses and the mesonephric duct forms the male organs.


why is it difficult to understand that?
the scheme on its own would give rise to female organs, if it is left untampered with by MIF!
MIF is what saves you guys from having an uterus, a cervix and the upper 2/3rds of a vagina.


what else do you want me to explain?

Guy, you could just accept you made a mistake, we all do!
I don't state facts that I ain't aure of, I've heard it tima and again from medical doctors/lecturers that we practically all start out as females before the differentitation. Doesn't really mean you once had a vagina, it only means you once had a paramesonephric duct (which if left alone, would have given you a vagina)

LordReed:

I didn't say women can't lead. I am asserting that default is the male. If a woman is stronger she will lead but that is not the norm. Strength is not about brute force but the ability to strike through confusion and drive the nail home. Men are ideally more suited to tasks that require forward thinking and breach situations. Women are emotional creatures and panic alot so are not quite suited for all hell breaking loose situations. A woman who does not fit this mold is a diamond.

I beg to differ with you on this. Particularly when you refer to woman as "not quite suited for all he'll braeking loose situations." To most women a divorce is one of their "all hell brake loose" situation and there seem to be more women led single homes vs men, which without a doubt shows the strength of any individual because not only are they dealing with economic hardships but the burden to ensure that they mold great individuals to release to the world.

The mere fact that it is the norm for men to leave their wives with kids in some cases like Nigeria with out even a monthly allowance to help take care of the kids but women still carry this challenge without cease is proof enough of how endowed and gifted women are to survive and withstand the most difficult situations without breaking.

i just think men like it when women act powerless and emotional, most women know this and have mastered it to afford men their desire of being the "head" but that
does not mean they (women) are.

alutacontinua:

sex organs arise majorly from 2 ducts: mesonephric and paramesonephric.
in the absence of the mullerian Inhibiting factor, the paramesonephric goes on to develop into the female organs. In other words, the original plan is to be female. In the presence of MIF from the sertoli cells in the testes, the paramesonephric/mullerian duct regresses and the mesonephric duct forms the male organs.


why is it difficult to understand that?
the scheme on its own would give rise to female organs, if it is left untampered with by MIF!
MIF is what saves you guys from having an uterus, a cervix and the upper 2/3rds of a vagina.


what else do you want me to explain?

Guy, you could just accept you made a mistake, we all do!
I don't state facts that I ain't aure of, I've heard it tima and again from medical doctors/lecturers that we practically all start out as females before the differentitation. Doesn't really mean you once had a vagina, it only means you once had a paramesonephric duct (which if left alone, would have given you a vagina)

Female Development.

In a female embryo, from about the sixth week, the Wolffian ducts degenerate, and the Mullerian ducts develop towards the Fallopian tubes, uterus and vagina. Meanwhile, by the twelfth week, the indifferent gonad begins to develop into an ovary.

Pray tell what are the Wolffian ducts that are degenerating in the female fetus?

LordReed:

Female Development.

In a female embryo, from about the sixth week, the Wolffian ducts degenerate, and the Mullerian ducts develop towards the Fallopian tubes, uterus and vagina. Meanwhile, by the twelfth week, the indifferent gonad begins to develop into an ovary.

Pray tell what are the Wolffian ducts that are degenerating in the female fetus?

good!
now, you're actually reading from your link.
if you read well, you'll realise the wolffian ducts (mesonephric ducts) regress SPONTANEOUSLY. Which is what would have happened to everyone, but the MIF saves y'all from that, the MIF instead regresses the mullerian and leave the wolffian to develop into the male organs.

the ovaries and testes develop from the indifferent gonads, but would you really wanna have a cervox, vagina AND testes? We're talking the development of other organs here (ducts, penis, uterus etc). As far as we're mostly concerned, anybody with a vagina is a woman, NO?

BluIvy:

I beg to differ with you on this. Particularly when you refer to woman as "not quite suited for all he'll braeking loose situations." To most women a divorce is one of their "all hell brake loose" situation and there seem to be more women led single homes vs men, which without a doubt shows the strength of any individual because not only are they dealing with economic hardships but the burden to ensure that they mold great individuals to release to the world.

The mere fact that it is the norm for men to leave their wives with kids in some cases like Nigeria with out even a monthly allowance to help take care of the kids but women still carry this challenge without cease is proof enough of how endowed and gifted women are to survive and withstand the most difficult situations without breaking.

i just think men like it when women act powerless and emotional, most women know this and have mastered it to afford men their desire of being the "head" but that
does not mean they (women) are.

Once again I am not denigrating the capabilities of women but merely pointing out the general trend male and female differentiation takes us.

LordReed:

Once again I am not denigrating the capabilities of women but merely pointing out the general trend male and female differentiation takes us.

Gotcha!!!

alutacontinua:

good!
now, you're actually reading from your link.
if you read well, you'll realise the wolffian ducts (mesonephric ducts) regress SPONTANEOUSLY. Which is what would have happened to everyone, but the MIF saves y'all from that, the MIF instead regresses the mullerian and leave the wolffian to develop into the male organs.

the ovaries and testes develop from the indifferent gonads, but would you really wanna have a cervox, vagina AND testes? We're talking the development of other organs here (ducts, penis, uterus etc). As far as we're mostly concerned, anybody with a vagina is a woman, NO?

You make it sound like magic. MIF is saving us guys, lol. The Y chromosome has already determined that MIF will act so I don't see how the Grand scheme is for all to be female if the maleness was pre-determined at the moment of conception.

LordReed:

You make it sound like magic. MIF is saving us guys, lol. The Y chromosome has already determined that MIF will act so I don't see how the Grand scheme is for all to be female if the maleness was pre-determined at the moment of conception.

now, you understand what I was saying
have a good day

next time, don't attack people the way you did. It ain't cool
most especially, when you ain't a genius at what you're tryna argue about

craziebone: how i wish Bluivy can just make her point without insulting others. The likes of you are the reasons why some people are a bit skeptical about your likes.

I know someone who was merely expressing a different opinion from the likes of you and you know what the likes of you did? They went on her facebook page where it was easy to find some informations including info about her daughter's down syndrome. Your likes used it to attack her daughter!

You mentioned women earning six digits. My question is how many women on earth earn six digits?

I dont think we have to argue this very much. I have heard it from independent ladies themselves that they are not ready to shoulder the role of bread winner. For them, men must at least be working before they can consider him for a partner. But for guys, a lady doesnt necesary have to be earning anything for her to be dateable! It is that simple. I wonder why we deliberately decide to argue about something as plain as this!

...please can you honestly stop all the false postulations you have been spewing?..

..There are more women standing as bread-winners than the other way round in present day Nigeria.Most married folks i know depend to a very large extent on the bacon the wife brings.The fact that the women are not singing it as a song does not mean it does not exist..most keep quiet because of love and loyalty to their husbands and the feeling of 'shame'..
...They do not like it but what choices do they have since their husbands are incapable of living up to their responsibilites?..

..I am all for a man being the 'head' or whatever,but how many are really living up to the responsibilities that goes with being the 'head' huh?..

..I am of the firm believe that those crying here(including you) about what the op said have apsolutely no clue of the enormous responsibilites that comes with being a head..reason why women contributing half to the running of the home(financially) or even completey is more common than ever before..i kid you not!..I know that the economic situation in the country plays some part but mehnn most of our men who love to pride themselves on being the 'head' are not trying at all when it comes to walking the talk..
..to you all its all about lounging around shouting 'submission' and quoting bible passages forgeting that the same bible said that a man who cannot take care of his family is worse than an infidel..i rest my case.

alutacontinua:

now, you understand what I was saying
have a good day

next time, don't attack people the way you did. It ain't cool
most especially, when you ain't a genius at what you're tryna argue about

I didn't attack you, I merely pointed out that science does not support your assertion. The fetuses are androgynous until differentiation which in turn was predicted by the presence or lack of Y chromosome so there can be no grand scheme of femaleness.

Ngokafor:




...please can you honestly stop all the false postulations you have been spewing?..

..There are more women standing as bread-winners than the other way round in present day Nigeria.Most married folks i know depend to a very large extent on the bacon the wife brings.The fact that the women are not singing it as a song does not mean it does not exist..most keep quiet because of love and loyalty to their husbands and the feeling of 'shame'..
...They do not like it but what choices do they have since their husbands are incapable of living up to their responsibilites?..

..I am all for a man being the 'head' or whatever,but how many are really living up to the responsibilities that goes with being the 'head' huh?..

..I am of the firm believe that those crying here(including you) about what the op said have apsolutely no clue of the enormous responsibilites that comes with being a head..reason why women contributing half to the running of the home(financially) or even completey is more common than ever before..i kid you not!..I know that the economic situation in the country plays some part but mehnn most of our men who love to pride themselves on being the 'head' are not trying at all when it comes to walking the talk..
..to you all its all about lounging around shouting 'submission' and quoting bible passages forgeting that the same bible said that a man who cannot take care of his family is worse than an infidel..i rest my case.

Thank you for your honesty! Real man are not phased by reality and do not turn a blind eye to the truth but strive
to be the best they can be. You are a role model!

BluIvy:

I beg to differ with you on this. Particularly when you refer to woman as "not quite suited for all he'll braeking loose situations." To most women a divorce is one of their "all hell brake loose" situation and there seem to be more women led single homes vs men, which without a doubt shows the strength of any individual because not only are they dealing with economic hardships but the burden to ensure that they mold great individuals to release to the world.

The mere fact that it is the norm for men to leave their wives with kids in some cases like Nigeria with out even a monthly allowance to help take care of the kids but women still carry this challenge without cease is proof enough of how endowed and gifted women are to survive and withstand the most difficult situations without breaking.

i just think men like it when women act powerless and emotional, most women know this and have mastered it to afford men their desire of being the "head" but that
does not mean they (women) are.

A man desires to be the head of his family? What does a woman desires? Remember, you can only desire what you don't have. The women you described above, have you asked them how much they love what they are doing? Would you prefer to be one of them? Do you desire as a woman, to be on top of your hubby? My advice to you is if you are 25, marry a 15 year old man, if you are a medical doctor, marry a bus conductor, if you have Phd, marry a school cert. holder. That is why most men marry younger women. A wise woman stoops to conquer, a foolish woman raises her ugly head and gets seriously whacked. A word is enough for the wise.

Relationship101:
Who is the originator of marriage? You forget to mention his name.

God is the originator of marriage!

You don't believe in Him? Your doom is sealed!!

You are a lunatic, woman wrapper and pathetic atheist cum feminist!!!

No lady here will fall for your bait.

Go and die!

alutacontinua:

now, you understand what I was saying
have a good day

next time, don't attack people the way you did. It ain't cool
most especially, when you ain't a genius at what you're tryna argue about

Now that you've agreed that its not so about men starting out as women but based on common path of development driven by inital genetic materisl.. Theres no need anymore.

If you had persisted in your line of reasoning.....I wanted to ask if you agreed that men represented the evolution from a base material.

pickabeau1:


Now that you've agreed that its not so about men starting out as women but based on common path of development driven by inital genetic materisl.. Theres no need anymore.

If you had persisted in your line of reasoning.....I wanted to ask if you agreed that men represented the evolution from a base material.

The above is English. He understood my point perfectly.
and my point still stands: the plan laid down tends towards being female, simple!
if you have any question for me, shoot!
you might not get an answer soon though, gotta start my day.

vicoson: A man desires to be the head of his family? What does a woman desires? Remember, you can only desire what you don't have. The women you described above, have you asked them how much they love what they are doing? Would you prefer to be one of them? Do you desire as a woman, to be on top of your hubby? My advice to you is if you are 25, marry a 15 year old man, if you are a medical doctor, marry a bus conductor, if you have Phd, marry a school cert. holder. That is why most men marry younger women. A wise woman stoops to conquer, a foolish woman raises her ugly head and gets seriously whacked. A word is enough
for the wise.

Women desires to have life partner, a friend, a lover, a companion and good father for her kids. Everything else you've said the really is not my business. Top or bottom stuff is self deluding, do you think we sit there headless and directionless or without vision waiting for someone to direct out paths? Well atleast some of us are not.

am not sure what you mean by getting wacked!

alutacontinua:

The above is English. He understood my point perfectly.
and my point still stands: the plan laid down tends towards being female, simple!
if you have any question for me, shoot!
you might not get an answer soon though, gotta start my day.

But the initial blueprint is XY..

No further questions....

BluIvy:

Women desires to have life partner, a friend, a lover, a companion and good father for her kids. Everything else you've said the really is not my business. Top or bottom stuff is self deluding, do you think we sit there headless and directionless or without vision waiting for someone to direct out paths? Well atleast some of us are not.

am not sure what you mean by getting wacked!

Let me break it down for you.. Your family sees your husband as your head, hence they seek his consent whenever they need something from you, may be a visit or service. Your family needs something from your husband, they bypass you and go to him directly. He discusses it with you as a partner. Extend this to the church, work place, the society at large and show me how being a head and a partner are mutually exclusive. Notice that the man did not make himself the HEAD!

LordReed:

I didn't say women can't lead. I am asserting that default is the male. If a woman is stronger she will lead but that is not the norm. Strength is not about brute force but the ability to strike through confusion and drive the nail home. Men are ideally more suited to tasks that require forward thinking and breach situations. Women are emotional creatures and panic alot so are not quite suited for all hell breaking loose situations. A woman who does not fit this mold is a diamond.

Your grand untenable assumptions;

1. Men are not emotional creatures and dont panic a lot.

2. Women are not forward thinking

3. That there is a biological default that deprives women from having leadership qualities.

@Kgoakor or whatever. I want you to tell me where exactly i have quoted the bible.

More women standing as what bread winner?!!! How can that be? It seems you guys dont even know what you are sayin or better still, you dont even know what propaganda to use to make the man look bad or irresponsible.

In one breath, you will cry women are not economically empowered and in the same breath you will say most women in Nigeria are bread winners. Why dont you tell me that there is no contradiction in the nonsense you have just said. Its either one or the other. It cannot be the two at the same time just to satisfy your craving for relevance!

I have better things to think of than going about any kind of 'submission' mantra. Fact is, i am way too relevant to be ignored. I got to the stage that i am today without the submission of a woman and you think i am going to need a woman moping my floor to continue to exist? You must have beeen hyping your relevance!

Many men around you are not living to their expectation you said? May be you should change your environment then!

these ladies are so fixated of 'submission' that they actually feel the only thing they bring to the table is 'submission'. This is the reason they feel if they take it away from the man, the man will become crippled. What a poor group of people!

Is it your submission that helped the man to fight lions so as to keep the fragile woman safe?

Is it 'submission' that helped the man to stand up to tyranny even when the odds are against him in order to win for humanity a just and fair world where the likes of you, Ngoakor or whatever, could come and claim right and benefits under the underserved quota system?

Is it 'submission' that helped the man to go into far away lands in difficult terrains where disease hold sway so as to find knowledge and insight in order to form institutions and cultures that would advance the cause of the human race?!

infact, it is important to mention that he was far away from the 'submission' of the woman when he was achieving all these things!

You've never been too important to the man, get over it!!!!

Kay17:

Your grand untenable assumptions;

1. Men are not emotional creatures and dont panic a lot.

2. Women are not forward thinking

3. That there is a biological default that deprives women from having leadership qualities.

LoL! My assumptions are supported by the facts of our collective experience.

1. I never said men don't panic. Women are more emotional and panic more than men.

2. I never said women are not forward thinking, fact is men who tend to be more logical in thought process have an advantage over women who tend to think intuitively.

3. The biological default positions the male as the 'shock troopers', the ones designed to bear the brunt. Even in our thought processes the males are seen to tend towards logic. Leadership is first about plotting a course which is a logical process. If the male is defaulted biologically to think logically then it stands to reason the he will pursue leadership.

Acidosis:
Very s¡lly question, bro/woman.

The fact that you do not have a common bible doesn't mean others do not study theirs daily.


Get well soon.

I am very very well mate, I note you didn't even answer the question!.

You men take a single verse from the Bible out of context and you carry it on your heads and use it to make your wives lives a misery. It becomes an excuse to be extremely lazy around the house, have no accountability whatsoever and pretty much do whatever the heck you like. The fact is that you lot follow NO other edicts contained in the bible. Truth be told if you were to love your wife truly like she was a part of your body, submit to EACH other, marriage would be heaven.

godjohnson: I pray ur husband see's this, only then would you realize how silly you are. fantasizing about a stranger who u know nothing about and ranking him above someone who ure married to. that's just plain silly

Tbh, i don't give a monkeys if my hubby saw this, he knows my stance. Also I will admit I had only read the ops 1st post and not he/shes subsequent posts and old topics and after doing so I retract my statement

Did anyone observe that OP is actually seeking attention here? All i can say for now is that MAN na MAN

BluIvy:

Why are people keeping secrets? How are we going to know what this submission refers to if its not shared? Please on what or how do we submit to out husbands to be exactly? Having said that I also think this needs to be taught to some men as well as they see submission as their right to abuse their women.

*scratching head... My dear, with all humility I would say I am not an expert in the matter, but I do read a lot, and I watch couples-old and young; and come to my own conclusions...I make up my mind what I want to adopt and what I don't.

But basically the ting nor be rocket science like that.
1. Submission is firstly RESPECT.

RESPECT. RESPECT. RESPECT.
Its like air to a man. You don't belittle or talk down at him. A lot of women are guilty of this..I've seen some do it in public sef. I cringe.

We need to respect the man as the leader. Like it or not, that's what he is.
He gives you a simple instruction but you hiss and na d tin wey dey your mind you do...not good.

And every good leader KNOWS he cannot achieve much without the help and support of his followers.

He may be about to make a really bad decision, but there are ways to go about trying to convince him that would make him listen to you.
Yorubas have this saying "pele ni ako, o ni abo".
Literal Translation: "sorry" get male and female format.
That is to say: E get as u go tell person "sorry" wey Im mind go come down, and e get as you go say "sorry" wey the person go just vex all the more.

Meaning that mode of presentation is key!

BOTTOM-LINE:
Submission is allowing him to be the leader...of course you're his helper and you certainly have an input in the decision-making process, BUT don't make life difficult for him abeg. He has enough battles outside without coming home to an atmosphere of war, constant nagging, disagreement and insubordination.

And truly, real men don't employ the "my way or take the highway" approach.
They would seek your counsel and ideas especially if you have shown yourself to be trustworthy, wise and reasonable, but ULTIMATELY he expects you to support him if he makes the final decision.
Truth is, there are areas in your affairs that he would also leave totally to your decisions and discretions.

SOMETIMES, ITS TRUE THAT THEY JUST WANT TO FLEX MUSCLE ...it may be annoying...but just say "yessir"... humour him and move on..you won't die! At the end of the day, we know who REALLY runs the show... . The power of a woman is influence..incredible if she is wise to know how to use it. A wise woman stoops to conquer...May God grant us that wisdom.

SUBMISSION AND THE TONGUE
If you feel he is not doing well maybe financially, the medicine for that is encouragement, NOT an acid tongue..
Let's not lie, some women dey get terrible, terrible bad mouth ...many a wife has turned a perfectly reasonable man to something else.
A submissive tongue is one that encourages, not one which tears down..

NAGGING: another act of unsubmission...you are trying to harrass him to do your will be that. You want to get your way by all means..usually its counterproductive.

You want something, but you nearly nag him to death...he naturally just balks and you will hit a brick wall. For example, you need him to be more helpful with domestic stuff, and na nagging u start... naija men?...they will just log out.

RECOGNITION OF THE ALMIGHTY MALE EGO. (TSK TSK!!)
We usually roll our eyes at the male ego thing (I do too!!), but Nne, that thing is there and apparently its not going anywhere! .
We just have to learn how to manage it ni.
Even my 4yr old nephew sometimes dey try to prove say he be boy, to his older sister. It tickles me no end

Another thing that is key in submission: APPRECIATION. APPRECIATION. APPRECIATION.
You are preggers and he manage cook indomie for you, wetin u do na to grumble about how e burn am.

Appreciate him verbally for the little things he does..he will go out of his way to do far more. EVERYBODY--(men and women) loves people who are appreciative.

A friend went to sell Ankara fabric to a man, say make e buy for him wife, he just hissed and said, "there's no point, she nor dey appreciate anything jare". He say "ah fit buy am now, she go complain about the colour or pattern. Abegi!"
And I bet that woman would probably be complaining that the guy doesn't buy her anything, not knowing say from history, na she shoot herself in the foot.
Tell me; who lose?

If you are the type who appreciates him, you give him respect, when u want something e fit nor pass to just rub his back and rub his stomach and start all those "olowo-ori mi" psyching ..he may answer with a grumpy "Ehen. what do you want now?"...but trust me at the end of the day they stress themsleves to make you happy. Because you make his life easy and beautiful!

WHAT SUBMISSION IS NOT:
Submission isn't acceptance of physical abuse and battery...capital NO. Na "till death do us part" not "till he kills you."
I would ask any woman unfortunate to be experiencing that, to separate herself from the bros. Separate yourself..till he gets help or something.

Submission does not mean you would lose yourself, your identity, your career or whatever.
It does NOT mean the man shouldn't respect you, either. We are not footmats, real men know that.

Men should not use the submission card as an excuse to abuse the woman emotionally, too.

Which is why I would say we shine our eyes well and not get hitched to an insecure caveman who would lock you up and throw away the key.
There are men like that too, unfortunately.
Be sure he supports your dreams, the things that are truly important to you.

Because sincerely; as he carry his head and his destiny come, na so you carry yours come too.
Imagine if the husbands of the likes of the late Dora Akunyili (God rest her soul) hadn't been supportive.

BUT and capital BUT: as he supports you in your dreams, career and all that, even if you are the oga-patapata-bosslady at work; when you rish ya house every evening, you go carry that title hang for your doormouth before you enter the house. You pick it up again on your way to work the following morning.

Hope that helped...that's my own sha .
I leave the rest to the more experienced and happily married folks.
cheers dear.