^^^I cannot find this Part Two you are quoting from. Where is it?

DrummaBoy: ^^^I cannot find this Part Two you are quoting from. Where is it?

Part 2 can be found here :

https://www.nairaland.com/1842233/pentecostal-experience#25216051

Sorry I have not replied on the tithe tract issue ( getting busier again ), it is still on my radar, the next mail will be to move into the next steps.

frosbel:

Part 2 can be found here :

https://www.nairaland.com/1842233/pentecostal-experience#25216051

Sorry I have not replied on the tithe tract issue ( getting busier again ), it is still on my radar, the next mail will be to move into the next steps.

OK.

I will be expecting your mail.

alexleo:
You are right but that was an individual assumption among old members in those days when we were still growing up but in this our time, people of our generation have done away with such nonsense believe. (Tho its still very annoying when we hear some oldies make such statements in our time). Well, we can't do much to change them totally at this time of their lives since that is the mentality they ve had for decades now. Honestly it annoys me when they say it. It was a hectic task before I could get my parents to do away with such wrong notion.

I love your honesty alexleo. Your post here is very candid. This was the mentality I had too as a child growing up in deeperlife. We believed only deeperlife and apostolic faith folks were true Christians. In fact my elder sister who had rebelled and had started attending faith foundation church was despised by me as fit only for hell for having the audacity to perm her hair.

Like you opined, the mentality is changing among the new generation but public perception of these 2 churches will be difficult to change. Just as the oldies are rigid with their beliefs, so the public is rigid in their perception.

I don't know how true this is but I don't see anything wrong in Kumuyi trying to follow peace with all men(as the scripture instructed) by reaching out to a church he was part of before, especially if they had some frictions before he left. I think there was a time in the scripture that paul had to reconcile with an apostle or so. But I can tell you that the Apostolic Faith has a good relationship with Kumuyi.

I see nothing wrong too if Kumuyi decided of his own to restitute whatever. Maybe its the type of restitution or the content that troubled frosbel. We might never know.

This is just perculiar to the church in Nigeria. I think it just has to do with how they want church workers to appear. They just want a clean shave. They are not saying its a sin if you don't shave.

Actually, these type of lifestyles slowly become doctrine for members. I remember it took a Tuesday bible study tape by Kumuyi in 1989 or 1990 (cant remember for sure) to help us realise it wasn't a sin for a woman to leave her hair open in public. Folks saw Biodun Kumuyi's lifestyle and converted it to heavenly requirement. In fact when Kumuyi encouraged women to allow their hair get aerated when they're outside church, the auditorium erupted in applause and you could almost touch the relief all the women felt.

Let me state that most of the things you wrote about the church is perculiar to Nigeria branch and some west african countries too. The oyibo men that started the church are not as rigid as us here. Some other things you wrote are perculiar to our ibadan branch which is one of the most rigid branch. Some branches are much freer than the others depending on the level of exposure of their various leaders.
I ll respond to the other issues you raised in my next post. Thanks.

Yeah, some branches make it more difficult than others.on the issue of drugs, my MIL former colleague (AF member)almost died when she refused to take drugs to normalise her BP. I even think it was a stroke that brought her to her senses. She believed it was a sin to seek such help.

That said, no single church is perfect (though some are outrightly criminal). We all can only try as long as we are in this body of flesh and as such, church leaders need to learn to allow their members exercise liberty of the spirit to live their lives.

Godbless you once again alexleo for your honesty.

alexleo:
You are right but that was an individual assumption among old members in those days when we were still growing up but in this our time, people of our generation have done away with such nonsense believe. (Tho its still very annoying when we hear some oldies make such statements in our time). Well, we can't do much to change them totally at this time of their lives since that is the mentality they ve had for decades now. Honestly it annoys me when they say it. It was a hectic task before I could get my parents to do away with such wrong notion.


I don't know how true this is but I don't see anything wrong in Kumuyi trying to follow peace with all men(as the scripture instructed) by reaching out to a church he was part of before, especially if they had some frictions before he left. I think there was a time in the scripture that paul had to reconcile with an apostle or so. But I can tell you that the Apostolic Faith has a good relationship with Kumuyi.


This is just perculiar to the church in Nigeria. I think it just has to do with how they want church workers to appear. They just want a clean shave. They are not saying its a sin if you don't shave.

Let me state that most of the things you wrote about the church is perculiar to Nigeria branch and some west african countries too. The oyibo men that started the church are not as rigid as us here. Some other things you wrote are perculiar to our ibadan branch which is one of the most rigid branch. Some branches are much freer than the others depending on the level of exposure of their various leaders.
I ll respond to the other issues you raised in my next post. Thanks.

Hmmm, You praised Drummaboy for raising concern that frosbel's thought was "evolving" and not "rooted", yet you come to the defense of a whole church by playing the "evolving" card. I think there's a name for such behaviour, can someone remind me please?


Anyway, make frosbel finish first.

From what av deduced so far not just from what the op but the confirmation of alex and candour above makes me wonder why the catholic church is so so so criticized by pentecostals
Imagine telling someone it Is a sin to take pills...smh
No wonder the devil is succeedingly converting many people to atheism. There is just so much division in christianity!

alentyno: From what av deduced so far not just from what the op but the confirmation of alex and candour above makes me wonder why the catholic church is so so so criticized by pentecostals
Imagine telling someone it Is a sin to take pills...smh
No wonder the devil is succeedingly converting many people to atheism. There is just so much division in christianity!

Of course the pentecostals are as guilty as the roman catholics. There is no perfect church organisation anywhere. What remains true is the body of Christ and it has as members all who believe and accept the finished work of Christ irrespective of the name on the building where they congregate to worship God.

Christians need to be honest with themselves. Only then can we help ourselves make the necessary corrections that would make the church a beacon of light that it was meant to be. Our denominations are not perfect. It won't hurt to admit to this fact and make amends.

Of course the pentecostals are as guilty as the roman catholics. There is no perfect church organisation anywhere. What remains true is the body of Christ and it has as members all who believe and accept the finished work of Christ irrespective of the name on the building where they congregate to worship God.

The pentecost are more guilty than the roman catholics.

I read about not going to the hospital, that is so dangerous and every year some kids die because their pentecost parents didnot go to the hospital with them. I never hear this here in europa that when you are ill you should only pray and when your prayer not working because you are still ill than you are a siner sorry but this has nothing to do that you are a good christian.
God give us the brain that we can search for help for every illness, did you know that we have many hospitals here in europa who starts from the catholic church.
I know from a pentecost pastor he told a pregnat woman that she shouldnot go to the hospital for a cesarian because there is no need and she should come in the church and deliver in the church, after 3 days of pain the pastor brought her to the hospital and than is was to late for her and the child, when you tell me now that this is a real christian sorry that is not tru.

pastors are semi Gods in nigeria and that is the problems and every church has her own doctrin what has nothing to do with the bible.

nora544:
[size=20pt]The pentecost are more guilty than the roman catholics. [/size]

at least you finally admit guilt, i thought Catholics here said with such boldness that the Catholic church s perfect?

I read about not going to the hospital, that is so dangerous and every year some kids die because their pentecost parents didnot go to the hospital with them. I never hear this here in europa that when you are ill you should only pray and when your prayer not working because you are still ill than you are a siner sorry but this has nothing to do that you are a good christian.
God give us the brain that we can search for help for every illness, did you know that we have many hospitals here in europa who starts from the catholic church.
I know from a pentecost pastor he told a pregnat woman that she shouldnot go to the hospital for a cesarian because there is no need and she should come in the church and deliver in the church, after 3 days of pain the pastor brought her to the hospital and than is was to late for her and the child, when you tell me now that this is a real christian sorry that is not tru.

pastors are semi Gods in nigeria and that is the problems and every church has her own doctrin what has nothing to do with the bible.

[img]http://media./media/ftXvsSyRzKXXG/giphy.gif[/img]

coooool story, u shd consider a career in script writing.

Syncan:


Hmmm, You praised Drummaboy for raising concern that frosbel's thought was "evolving" and not "rooted", yet you come to the defense of a whole church by playing the "evolving" card. I think there's a name for such behaviour, can someone remind me please?


Anyway, make frosbel finish first.

[size=30pt]Hypocrisy![/size]

alentyno: From what av deduced so far not just from what the op but the confirmation of alex and candour above makes me wonder why the catholic church is so so so criticized by pentecostals
Imagine telling someone it Is a sin to take pills...smh
No wonder the devil is succeedingly converting many people to atheism. There is just so much division in christianity!

which church preaches that? that is a huge lie from the pit of hell...God gave us herbs to heal our bodies. i know you are making this up sha, am not surprised.

Gombs:

at least you finally admit guilt, i thought Catholics here said with such boldness that the Catholic church s perfect?



[img]http://media./media/ftXvsSyRzKXXG/giphy.gif[/img]

coooool story, u shd consider a career in script writing.

you are really giving nora cramps...

Gombs:


which church preaches that? that is a huge lie from the pit of hell...God gave us herbs to heal our bodies. i know you are making this up sha, am not surprised.

How can he be making it up... You didnt read the part where someone said his mother refused taking pills for her high BP or you dont knw of JW that dont take blood transfusion even at the point of death...

Rich4god: How can he be making it up... You didnt read the part where someone said his mother refused taking pills for her high BP or you dont knw of JW that dont take blood transfusion even at the point of death...

It's a personal choice, which should not be a doctrine in the church, but what I said he's making up is the "taking pill is a sin" part

Syncan:


Hmmm, You praised Drummaboy for raising concern that frosbel's thought was "evolving" and not "rooted", yet you come to the defense of a whole church by playing the "evolving" card. I think there's a name for such behaviour, can someone remind me please?


Anyway, make frosbel finish first.

You didn't read and understand what DrummaBoy wrote very well. You ve also not been following frosbel's thread of recent so you can't understand why I commended Dboy. May be you need to go and do a proper follow up of what I mentioned here for u to understand. And you said I'm defending the church? Pls go and read my reply to frosbel again. If you ve been following my posts in this forum you ll know that I ve always believed that no church is perfect and that has been my issue with you people when you claim that Roman Catholic is perfect. I ve also departed from church praising long ago( of course I learnt that from frosbel even tho he is singing some strange songs now). I still commend DrummaBoy and Tgirl4real for speaking out. That's how to be a good friend. When you see your friend acting strangely you speak out. There are other friends of Frosbel who can't speak out even if they find his action strange. That's not it. Mind you I'm also his friend and I commend or condemn his actions as the case may be. Change is inevitable but you must not do it in isolation. Nobody has the monpoly of knowledge so as you discover things you also make room to view contrary opinion and make adjustment where neccessary. This is where frosbel needs to look into as he is evolving or whatever. And this is where you catholics need to look into. You can't know it all alone. Cheers.

Candour:

I love your honesty alexleo. Your post here is very candid. This was the mentality I had too as a child growing up in deeperlife. We believed only deeperlife and apostolic faith folks were true Christians. In fact my elder sister who had rebelled and had started attending faith foundation church was despised by me as fit only for hell for having the audacity to perm her hair.

Lol

I can relate too. Almost every christian who got born again around the 80s and 90s believed and practised this style of christianity to one degree or the other, for a while.

Mine was even worse, you didn't even need to perm your hair to be a sinner, you only needed to be beautiful. To me, every beautiful girl was a queen of the coast -whatever that means.

I remember one day in secondary school when I trekked the very long distance back home from school. I refused to take our school bus home coz they were playing a "worldly song" in the bus. Guess the song? I believe I can fly by R. Kelly. Lol, it was that bad.

But I must also admit, after God delivered me from that form of extreme legalism, I drifted to the other extreme -extreme liberalism.

I practised licentious grace for a while as well. I believed that no matter what you do wrong, God doesn't see it, coz you're robed in Christ's righteousness. That was another reckless phase of my christian walk.

Some of my old friends who knew my strict "holiness" in secondary school will try to talk to me, but I wouldn't listen. And they could not out-debate me, coz I knew the word -or should I say the letter.

Until I came under strong conviction and true repentance by the Holy Spirit.

With hind-sight now, I can say both extremes were wrong and don't truly or fully represent Christ or His gospel truth. Truth is usually (not always) found somewhere in between two doctrinal extremes.

My experience with God and His people have humbled me. That's why now I love to listen to other believers, even ones who disagree with me. Coz I now realise that even though they may not have THE TRUTH, they may have A TRUTH. And even though they may not make me cross over to their own extreme, they may deliver me from my own extreme.

Candour:

I love your honesty alexleo. Your post here is very candid. This was the mentality I had too as a child growing up in deeperlife. We believed only deeperlife and apostolic faith folks were true Christians. In fact my elder sister who had rebelled and had started attending faith foundation church was despised by me as fit only for hell for having the audacity to perm her hair.

Like you opined, the mentality is changing among the new generation but public perception of these 2 churches will be difficult to change. Just as the oldies are rigid with their beliefs, so the public is rigid in their perception.




I see nothing wrong too if Kumuyi decided of his own to restitute whatever. Maybe its the type of restitution or the content that troubled frosbel. We might never know.




Actually, these type of lifestyles slowly become doctrine for members. I remember it took a Tuesday bible study tape by Kumuyi in 1989 or 1990 (cant remember for sure) to help us realise it wasn't a sin for a woman to leave her hair open in public. Folks saw Biodun Kumuyi's lifestyle and converted it to heavenly requirement. In fact when Kumuyi encouraged women to allow their hair get aerated when they're outside church, the auditorium erupted in applause and you could almost touch the relief all the women felt.




Yeah, some branches make it more difficult than others.on the issue of drugs, my MIL former colleague (AF member)almost died when she refused to take drugs to normalise her BP. I even think it was a stroke that brought her to her senses. She believed it was a sin to seek such help.

That said, no single church is perfect (though some are outrightly criminal). We all can only try as long as we are in this body of flesh and as such, church leaders need to learn to allow their members exercise liberty of the spirit to live their lives.

Godbless you once again alexleo for your honesty.

Thanks my beloved brother. I ll still respond to the drug issue.

Gombs:

It's a personal choice, which should not be a doctrine in the church, but what I said he's making up is the "taking pill is a sin" part

Guess you didnt read the previous posts thats why you are saying he is making it up...

Rich4god: Guess you didnt read the previous posts thats why you are saying he is making it up...

alexleo:

You didn't read and understand what DrummaBoy wrote very well. You ve also not been following frosbel's thread of recent so you can't understand why I commended Dboy. May be you need to go and do a proper follow up of what I mentioned here for u to understand. And you said I'm defending the church? Pls go and read my reply to frosbel again. If you ve been following my posts in this forum you ll know that I ve always believed that no church is perfect and that has been my issue with you people when you claim that Roman Catholic is perfect. I ve also departed from church praising long ago( of course I learnt that from frosbel even tho he is singing some strange songs now). I still commend DrummaBoy and Tgirl4real for speaking out. That's how to be a good friend. When you see your friend acting strangely you speak out. There are other friends of Frosbel who can't speak out even if they find his action strange. That's not it. Mind you I'm also his friend and I commend or condemn his actions as the case may be. Cheers.

There's nothing to defend here, you guys think Frosbel is wrong for saying he is evolving or is it his thought that is evolving sef which ever one it is. Yet right after that you talked about your church evolving.
If a whole church can evolve why not an individual

ayoku777:

Lol

I can relate too. Almost every christian who got born again around the 80s and 90s believed and practised this style of christianity to one degree or the other, for a while.

Mine was even worse, you didn't even need to perm your hair to be a sinner, you only needed to be beautiful. To me, every beautiful girl was a queen of the coast -whatever that means.

I remember one day in secondary school when I trekked the very long distance back home from school. I refused to take our school bus home coz they were playing a "worldly song" in the bus. Guess the song? I believe I can fly by R. Kelly. Lol, it was that bad.

But I must also admit, after God delivered me from that form of extreme legalism, I drifted to the other extreme -extreme liberalism.

I practised licentious grace for a while as well. I believed that no matter what you do wrong, God doesn't see it, coz you're robed in Christ's righteousness. That was another reckless phase of my christian walk.

Some of my old friends who knew my strict "holiness" in secondary school will try to talk to me, but I wouldn't listen. And they could not out-debate me, coz I knew the word -or should I say the letter.

Until I came under strong conviction and true repentance by the Holy Spirit.

With hind-sight now, I can say both extremes were wrong and don't truly or fully represent Christ or His gospel truth. Truth is usually (not always) found somewhere in between two doctrinal extremes.

My experience with God and His people have humbled me. That's why now I love to listen to other believers, even ones who disagree with me. Coz I now realise that even though they may not have THE TRUTH, they may have A TRUTH. And even though they may not make me cross over to their own extreme, they may deliver me from my own extreme.

I was blessed reading this.

I am studying Colossians for our home fellowship this weekend. Most commentaries I contacted for this said the Colossian epistle was written mainly to counter the Gnostic heretics.

These men taught a gospel that included extreme ascetism and profligate licence at the same time. Christianity has forever been walking the narrow road in BTW these two extremes since it was birthed.

alexleo:

You didn't read and understand what DrummaBoy wrote very well. You ve also not been following frosbel's thread of recent so you can't understand why I commended Dboy. May be you need to go and do a proper follow up of what I mentioned here for u to understand. And you said I'm defending the church? Pls go and read my reply to frosbel again. If you ve been following my posts in this forum you ll know that I ve always believed that no church is perfect and that has been my issue with you people when you claim that Roman Catholic is perfect. I ve also departed from church praising long ago( of course I learnt that from frosbel even tho he is singing some strange songs now). I still commend DrummaBoy and Tgirl4real for speaking out. That's how to be a good friend. When you see your friend acting strangely you speak out. There are other friends of Frosbel who can't speak out even if they find his action strange. That's not it. Mind you I'm also his friend and I commend or condemn his actions as the case may be. Cheers.

Hahaha, it seems this thread was opened for comedy. Now I do not comprehend "very well", what is plain to all eyes here. Stop inviting others to come to your aid, Unlike you, I believe there is a perfect Church, for the Church is the mystical body of Christ, this must be perfect. If the catholic church is not perfect, then the body of Christ isn't, for the catholic Church is the mystical body of Christ, Instituted by him on the Pentecost, as he promised to do in Matt 16 :17-19. Do not confuse the perfection of the church instituted by Christ with the flaws of her members, it is not the members that make the church Holy but her Union with Christ. Her members though described as "Saints" are only called to strive towards perfection.

However, we are not dealing with this now, just pointing out your quickness to defend your church, which you know is not perfect, yet whose teachings you stand on to judge the beliefs of frosbel others. Cheers.

SalC: There's nothing to defend here, you guys think Frosbel is wrong for saying he is evolving or is it his thought that is evolving sef which ever one it is. Yet right after that you talked about your church evolving.
If a whole church can evolve why not an individual

Lol, I think you also "did not read and understand very well" like me.

Syncan:


Lol, I think you also "did not read and understand very well" like me.

Me too o....they making me think I am dyslexic

ayoku777:

Lol

I can relate too. Almost every christian who got born again around the 80s and 90s believed and practised this style of christianity to one degree or the other, for a while.

Mine was even worse, you didn't even need to perm your hair to be a sinner, you only needed to be beautiful. To me, every beautiful girl was a queen of the coast -whatever that means.

I remember one day in secondary school when I trekked the very long distance back home from school. I refused to take our school bus home coz they were playing a "worldly song" in the bus. Guess the song? I believe I can fly by R. Kelly. Lol, it was that bad.

But I must also admit, after God delivered me from that form of extreme legalism, I drifted to the other extreme -extreme liberalism.

I practised licentious grace for a while as well. I believed that no matter what you do wrong, God doesn't see it, coz you're robed in Christ's righteousness. That was another reckless phase of my christian walk.

Some of my old friends who knew my strict "holiness" in secondary school will try to talk to me, but I wouldn't listen. And they could not out-debate me, coz I knew the word -or should I say the letter.

Until I came under strong conviction and true repentance by the Holy Spirit.

With hind-sight now, I can say both extremes were wrong and don't truly or fully represent Christ or His gospel truth. Truth is usually (not always) found somewhere in between two doctrinal extremes.

My experience with God and His people have humbled me. That's why now I love to listen to other believers, even ones who disagree with me. Coz I now realise that even though they may not have THE TRUTH, they may have A TRUTH. And even though they may not make me cross over to their own extreme, they may deliver me from my own extreme.

Exactly why the Master Instituted a church as a perfect guide for us, it is not the pastors, nor the written word; that was called the foundation of truth, no, it was the Church...the "pillar and ground of truth" 1tim 3:15. From extreme to extreme...even now...you may still move, nothing is assured.

Gombs:

Me too o....they making me think I am dyslexic

Chai...there is God o.

Edited.

Candour:

Actually, these type of lifestyles slowly become doctrine for members. I remember it took a Tuesday bible study tape by Kumuyi in 1989 or 1990 (cant remember for sure) to help us realise it wasn't a sin for a woman to leave her hair open in public. Folks saw Biodun Kumuyi's lifestyle and converted it to heavenly requirement. In fact when Kumuyi encouraged women to allow their hair get aerated when they're outside church, the auditorium erupted in applause and you could almost touch the relief all the women felt.

One day, many years ago, I was reading Acts 15, the place were the apostles sent letters to the church in Antioch to tell them that they need not listen to the Judaizers about circumcision. They should follow a certain minimum and they were OK. scripture records somewhere there that the people were happy. I could see relief too in that passage, the very thing Candour is describing here. Acts 15:30-31 - " ... and when they had gathered the multitudes together, they delivered the epistle: which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation". God knows how much more he wants his people to rejoice over, which church leaders prefer to bind people up in misery instead.

One of the biggest disservice church leaders can do to a flock is, in their bid to protect the flock, to then begin to list out dos and donts for them. It leads to bondage. When eventually truth is pointed out, relief and joy comes.

Should God's people not have a right to relief, joy and freedom all the time? Should churches bind up people in a bid to protect them? Is God not sufficient to save and keep safe till the end?

Forgive my Lamentations. I cannot help it sometimes.

Syncan:

Chai...there is god God o.

Fixed

DrummaBoy:

One day, many years ago, I was reading Acts 15, the place were the apostles sent letters to the church in Antioch to tell them that they need listen to the Judaizers about circumcision. They should follow a certain minimum and they were OK. scripture records somewhere there that the people were happy. I could see relief too in that passage, the very thing Candour is describing here. Acts 15:30-31 - " ... and when they had gathered the multitudes together, they delivered the epistle: which when they had read, they rejoiced for the consolation". God knows how much more he wants his people to rejoice over, which church leaders prefer to bind people up in misery with.

One of the biggest disservice church leaders can do to a flock is, in their bid to protect the flock, to then begin to list out dos and donts for them. It leads to bondage. When eventually truth is pointed out, relief and joy comes.

Should God's people not have a right to relief, joy and freedom all the time? Should churches bind up people in a bid to protect them? Is God not sufficient to save and keep safe till the end?

Forgive my Lamentations. I cannot help it sometimes.

I don't quite agree with the bind term u used, but, leaders are assigned by God to watch over His flock....do's and don't are very relevant, eg how marriages should be in a church like Christ Embassy might not be so in the Anglican communion, so with Catholics.

But a quick quiz bro, does the Church of God practice democracy or should they practice democracy?

Gombs:

I don't quite agree with the bind term u used, but, leaders are assigned by God to watch over His flock....do's and don't are very relevant, eg how marriages should be in a church like Christ Embassy might not be so in the Anglican communion, so with Catholics.

But a quick quiz bro, does the Church of God practice democracy or should they practice democracy?

I was gonna take on that, but you got it covered. True freedom comes from knowing and obeying the truth Jn 8:32, all that is needed is "is it the truth of what God needs from us?" It matters not if it is a cross to our flesh, carry it, that's where true joy and freedom repose.

Gombs:

But a quick quiz bro, does the Church of God practice democracy or should they practice democracy?

This will be a very difficult question to answer to you knowing what your position is already.

Your Pastor had answered that question in a stormy meeting he had with members of your church in the UK earlier this year, who were suspected of dissenting. So who am I to dare say anything to the contrary?

Gombs:

It's a personal choice, which should not be a doctrine in the church, but what I said he's making up is the "taking pill is a sin" part

Abag sharrap there, do you know how many people have lost their lives after they attended CE's (evil) healing school and they were made to stop taking drugs in exercising "faith" that they had been healed Examples abound even amongst NL members.