Syncan:


Lol, I think you also "did not read and understand very well" like me.

Gombs:


which church preaches that? that is a huge lie from the pit of hell...God gave us herbs to heal our bodies. i know you are making this up sha, am not surprised.

SalC: There's nothing to defend here, you guys think Frosbel is wrong for saying he is evolving or is it his thought that is evolving sef which ever one it is. Yet right after that you talked about your church evolving.
If a whole church can evolve why not an individual

Syncan:

Hahaha, it seems this thread was opened for comedy. Now I do not comprehend "very well", what is plain to all eyes here. Stop inviting others to come to your aid, Unlike you, I believe there is a perfect Church, for the Church is the mystical body of Christ, this must be perfect. .

DrummaBoy:

This will be a very difficult question to answer to you knowing what your position is already.

Your Pastor had answered that question in a stormy meeting he had with members of your church in the UK earlier this year, who were suspected of dissenting. So who am I to dare say anything to the contrary?

PastorKun:

Abag sharrap there, do you know how many people have lost their lives after they attended CE's (evil) healing school and they were made to stop taking drugs in exercising "faith" that they had been healed Examples abound even amongst NL members.

alexleo:

You quoted that I supported someone's reply to frosbel and used it to codemn my post. When I now explained to you and mentioned names you said I'm looking for people who will support me. I don't even understand how you people see this forum. A money making forum or what? If people support me how much will it drop in my bank account? Na wa for una.
I still maintain that no church- Roman Catholic, Apostolic Faith, Deeper Life, RCCG, Winners etc, is perfect. I don't need to argue this with you. That's what I said so na u sabi wetin you understand about my statement. I don't need to argue this with you.

Syncan:


Hahaha, typical clutching on straw instead of facing fact. Now you maintain an opinion/belief in the face strong contradiction, yet you flay another for having his own. Again check out the name for that in one of the posts with the biggest fonts earlier on in this thread.

Am not arguing with you, just making sure Frosbel's thread remains his own, unsullied by pontificating from a shaky foundation, till he finishes his story. I find much entertainment in it.

alexleo:

I'm not arguing with you too. Yet I have the right to make an input where I find neccessary since my church is among the ones he mentioned. As you can see I'm not making blind argument and worthless defence as you people do whenever your Roman Catholic church is being criticized. By now you people would ve rained countless abuses on the OP but you can see the difference is clear here. I made it plain from the begining that what I'm giving is an update (because its been long he left the church)but because I ve always had issues with some practices in your RCC that's why you are picking on my post, and even doing it wrongly too. You said you are protecting frosbel's thread whereas frosbel made it clear at the begining that he reserved the front page for his story while we can now respond in the other pages yet people like you will turn a blind eye to such info. Again he has finished his story on my church and moved to the next church before I responded. Now the question is- why are you crying more than the bereaved? I'm yet to understand why a stranger is weeping and wailing more than the bereaved. Continue with your wailing if it gives you peace.

Gombs:

You and your usual delusions! U started a thread about he and his wife's 'troubles' then someone came along and said pastor Chris said some really funny things in the bid of calming the brethren. (Now, going through that thread of yours, I not only find it silly but outright malicious, with enough stench of bitterness and monumental evidence of the bile u carry in your heart)

Now Deji, be as the bereans and search the scriptures for yourself and answer me, don’t try to side step this one...

Does the Church of God practice Democracy? Or should they practice democracy!?

Pastor Chris has said " I don't preach denominationalism, I look at the scriptures" that explains for example why BLW in not a member of PFN (not that PFN is a wrong body or evil). Now, I implore u to please oblige me...for posterity sake!

DrummaBoy:

The church should not operate a democracy. The church should not even contemplate a theocracy . The church should NOT operate an autocracy. And many of our churches are doing a good job at this.

# We have a system of one man government; where this man is the General Overseer, General Superintendent, Serving Overseer, or Senior Pastor. The church should never operate a system of elders.

Its totally unbiblical and anywhere this is mentioned in the New Testament, the bible must have made a mistake.

God's all time will is for one man to head his body the church. That man should not be Jesus; that man can be the Pope. And how well Pentecostals are emulating Catholics in this regard.

# The church should never operate a democracy; talk less of a theocracy.

We should never allow people to think for themselves, lest they make eternal mistakes. We must set up committees in church to take care of marriages, naming ceremonies, ordination, and burial. Never you permit the laity to worry themselves about thinking on these things. The government of church should think for them.

#The church should not operate a democracy but an autocracy,

where people are instructed on how to use their finances. First and foremost, people must TITHE for the church to run its autocratic government. Then, they can begin to give other free will offerings. They should not also forget the firstfruit. The church of Jesus is a military barrack and needs a despot in human flesh to head it.

The church is not a democracy o and anyone that wishes to speak his mind should get out!

"When we started this ministry, where were you? Now you want to give us opinion. To hell with your opinion. The church is not a democracy".

I hope you got the answer you wanted, Gombs?

frosbel: Part 3

( I have added a few bits to Part 2 this evening , so you may want to read the last 3 paragraphs ).

2 events happened that rocked my faith and led to my leaving the church within less than a year. You see when they talked about the evils of medicine at church and the need for faith to heal , as a young gullible fool that I was, I bought into this doctrine hook line and sinker. I remember my sister ( the one I was close to ) tell me time and time again that the snake logo for medicine was occultic and of the devil. This scared me no joke.

Example :



The first event happened in the library when I was preparing for my exams. I will admit that I swore at God for some problem I was going through at the time and for which there did not seem to be an immediate remedy. As I slept in the library after a few minutes of study , it suddenly felt like I was descending downwards through a black tunnel and being dragged forcefully by unseen hands. I desperately fought like a mad dog but was unable to overcome whatever this strange phenomenon was. Then I remembered to shout the name of Jesus and a few cries later I woke up with a jolt , sweating profusely and wondering why no one in the library heard my screams. I thanked God all the same but was severely shaken by that event.

The second event

I started the day as usual cleaning my room and helping with the house chores and forgot about the event. A few hours later I started to feel the early signs of malaria and as the hours progressed and became days I fell seriously ill. I called for the elders of the Apostolic Faith church to pray for me and they encouraged me in my faith not to take any medicine. Despite all their prayers and mine of course my sickness became worse till I stopped eating and was beginning to vomit green bile. This was almost a week after the illness started and still the church elders never once advised me to go to see a doctor or chemist.

My uncle heard about my situation and stubbornness in rejecting medicine and came to see me in a hurry ( my Dad was still in Lagos at this time ). By this time I was 80% dead, as thin as a skeleton and almost going into hallucination mode. After my uncle's pleas I agreed to go to hospital , he brought me some food which I ate and vomited almost immediately. When I got the the hospital my condition was so critical that they rushed me to the emergency section for immediate treatment. The doctor was shocked at what he saw and told my relatives that I would have had only a short time to live if they had not brought me that same day. I was given multiple injections and drip and wheeled into the ward were I was admitted for a week. My relatives who came to see me were distraught at my state and were even more worried because I could not talk but stare into space in a gaze like fashion.

When my Dad returned from his business trip and heard what happened, he went into a fit, tantrum, mad rant and was so angry he arranged to have the pastors arrested and swore to disown me forever ( of course he did not mean it ). In the hospital I could barely bring myself to read any apostolic faith magazines as it seemed that this was the poison that almost caused my death. After a week of release , I felt faintly better and was discharged back home to the joy of my beloved dad. I vowed never again to go back to Apostolic Faith and kept to my word. When I made this decision something strange happened, I saw a small fireball fall from the sky , it jolted me a little but that was about it.

Now was time to go back to campus as the holidays were over , I bade my dad good bye , collected my provisions and money and headed back to Lagos. From Lagos I went back to campus. This was the semester when I went from frying pan to fire, i.e from Apostolic Faith to Deeper Life.

Part 4 should be ready by 11pm tonight. If anything changes as per delay I will let you know.

Thanks.

Syncan:

hahahahaha. Yes you have a right to make an imput no doubt, just as I have the right to take you up on it. Surely you don't make blind arguments and worthless defense, you only make hypocritical ones. Its a fact that the Catholic church is the most attacked on NL, many can attest to it even if your hypocrisy wont allow you. So if i take you up on any aspect of your post, it is on its merit alone, and not on any bloated importance you attach to your opinion, who cares about that. Protecting frosbel's thread does not mean you shouldn't respond, but your responses has evoked my reaction because of its hypocritical content, which wanted to sour the story for me. I am waiting for you to wriggle yourself out of the drug ish on your church. We know who is wailing.

alexleo:


To some persons, its an honest presentation that I made and to you its hypocritical just as yours is nonsensical and worthless to me.

alexleo:

On this issue of medication, the church based its stand on James 5:14. Of a truth, many have experienced healing of various sicknesses through prayers without medication(including myself and family members) over the years. Many have had similar sicknesses and even worse ones than yours and they got healed through this means. Also there are some who had similar cases as yours and even less cases than yours and they went to hospital and still died after several efforts to restore them. So its not as if there is any of the medium that has recorded zero death in its history. However a few years ago some of us started seeing other places in the bible that shows that God can heal us through any means contrary to the one rigid means we were made to follow. Some of the present crop of leaders also have a liberal approach now to this issue so it is no more an offence for a member to take medications. However some oldies are seeing it as end time things (lol ) and they ve refused to join us. My parents have been in this church for almost sixty years now without taking medidcation and God has been healing them in time of sickness. They are old now yet stronger than some youngies and look younger than their ages. Iin 2012 my dad was terribly sick that we thought all hope was lost, there was nothing we didn't do to convince him to take medication but he refused and the church kept praying for him and he was totally healed. Today if you see him walking briskly and travelling here and there you won't believe this was the same man that was near death 2 years ago. There are a lot of them like that too in the church.
In recent years when some of us began travelling overseas we now discovered that the headquarter church in the U.S. never said people shouldn't take medication rather the baba(Oshokoya) that brought the church to naija in the 1930s had to place that ban because what was in vogue in those days was babalawo. This was my own findings and some others too. Well like I said, no church is perfect, no individual is perfect, we keep perfecting as we study the scripture more and more with the help of the Holy Spirit. For me I know these old leaders did whatever they did to the best of their understanding of the scripture at their time and I don't blame them. There are things we are doing now that the generations following us will see in their time and consider it foolish or inappropriate. Yet we are doing it to the best of our knowledge now. There are some of your new discoveries/ideologies now that you ll look back in some years to come and pick a lot of holes in them. Such is life. The room for improvement is the largest room in the world. It cannot be fully saturated. Thanks frosbel.

alexleo:

On this issue of medication, the church based its stand on James 5:14. Of a truth, many have experienced healing of various sicknesses through prayers without medication(including myself and family members) over the years. Many have had similar sicknesses and even worse ones than yours and they got healed through this means. Also there are some who had similar cases as yours and even less cases than yours and they went to hospital and still died after several efforts to restore them. So its not as if there is any of the medium that has recorded zero death in its history. However a few years ago some of us started seeing other places in the bible that shows that God can heal us through any means contrary to the one rigid means we were made to follow. Some of the present crop of leaders also have a liberal approach now to this issue so it is no more an offence for a member to take medications. However some oldies are seeing it as end time things (lol ) and they ve refused to join us. My parents have been in this church for almost sixty years now without taking medidcation and God has been healing them in time of sickness. They are old now yet stronger than some youngies and look younger than their ages. Iin 2012 my dad was terribly sick that we thought all hope was lost, there was nothing we didn't do to convince him to take medication but he refused and the church kept praying for him and he was totally healed. Today if you see him walking briskly and travelling here and there you won't believe this was the same man that was near death 2 years ago. There are a lot of them like that too in the church.
In recent years when some of us began travelling overseas we now discovered that the headquarter church in the U.S. never said people shouldn't take medication rather the baba(Oshokoya) that brought the church to naija in the 1930s had to place that ban because what was in vogue in those days was babalawo. This was my own findings and some others too. Well like I said, no church is perfect, no individual is perfect, we keep perfecting as we study the scripture more and more with the help of the Holy Spirit. For me I know these old leaders did whatever they did to the best of their understanding of the scripture at their time and I don't blame them. There are things we are doing now that the generations following us will see in their time and consider it foolish or inappropriate. [size=20pt] Yet we are doing it to the best of our knowledge now.[/size] There are some of your new discoveries/ideologies now that you ll look back in some years to come and pick a lot of holes in them. Such is life. The room for improvement is the largest room in the world. It cannot be fully saturated. Thanks frosbel.

Gombs:

Bros, form the bold, whatsoever happened to Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever? Do your Holy Spirit change?

All Hagin, Kenyon etc taught in ages past were consistent with the scriptures, today... and will be, ALWAYS.

And as for the enlarged... Peter was saying in his 2nd letter chapter 1 verse 21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

How did you arrive at "Yet we are doing it to the best of OUR KNOWLEDGE now. "

ayoku777:

Lol

I can relate too. Almost every christian who got born again around the 80s and 90s believed and practised this style of christianity to one degree or the other, for a while.

Mine was even worse, you didn't even need to perm your hair to be a sinner, you only needed to be beautiful. To me, every beautiful girl was a queen of the coast -whatever that means.

I remember one day in secondary school when I trekked the very long distance back home from school. I refused to take our school bus home coz they were playing a "worldly song" in the bus. Guess the song? I believe I can fly by R. Kelly. Lol, it was that bad.

But I must also admit, after God delivered me from that form of extreme legalism, I drifted to the other extreme -extreme liberalism.

I practised licentious grace for a while as well. I believed that no matter what you do wrong, God doesn't see it, coz you're robed in Christ's righteousness. That was another reckless phase of my christian walk.

Some of my old friends who knew my strict "holiness" in secondary school will try to talk to me, but I wouldn't listen. And they could not out-debate me, coz I knew the word -or should I say the letter.

Until I came under strong conviction and true repentance by the Holy Spirit.

With hind-sight now, I can say both extremes were wrong and don't truly or fully represent Christ or His gospel truth. Truth is usually (not always) found somewhere in between two doctrinal extremes.

My experience with God and His people have humbled me. That's why now I love to listen to other believers, even ones who disagree with me. Coz I now realise that even though they may not have THE TRUTH, they may have A TRUTH. And even though they may not make me cross over to their own extreme, they may deliver me from my own extreme.

Candour:

My belief has always been that the body of Christ is made up of believers from very different backgrounds. No denomination has the exclusive right or claim to truth. There'll be more harmony if we all realise this

Syncan:


Haba na . I wasn't the one that gave it the name "Hypocrisy" which it truly is, more so, going by the only evidence before us, I got 7 likes and still counting on that post of mine, you got none on yours, what then informs this bogus claim of yours? Now that I've told you, you can go get your Yard church people to like your post

Gombs:

Bros, form the bold, whatsoever happened to Jesus, the same yesterday, today and forever? Do your Holy Spirit change?

All Hagin, Kenyon etc taught in ages past were consistent with the scriptures, today... and will be, ALWAYS.

And as for the enlarged... Peter was saying in his 2nd letter chapter 1 verse 21
Knowing this first, that no prophecy of the scripture is of any private interpretation.

How did you arrive at "Yet we are doing it to the best of OUR KNOWLEDGE now. "

frosbel:
There should be no denominations whatsoever , Jesus came to build ONE church not 42,000 denominations.

frosbel:
The problems with denominations are many but here are a major few :
1. The leaders lord it over the sheep which is unbiblical.

frosbel:
2. One MAN is the head of such a group ,again making it unscriptural.

frosbel:

3. Each denomination restricts the distribution of resources and money to it's own church. In other words a redeemer may see a catholic brother starving to death and not care one iota..

frosbel:
4. They take collections from people under a false concept and impoverish the poorer brethren while enriching the middle class.
5. It encourages laziness among the pastors and leads to every man or woman wanting to start their own church on the premise of some questionable calling.
6. It causes immense friction in the body of Christ as we cannot even agree on the major bible doctrines talk less of unity
7. It encourages arrogance in the leaders and results in unaccountability in the way they treat the sheep and spend their money
8. It is rotten to the core.
We need a solution to destroy ( not modify ) this tower of babel ( confusion ).

alexleo:

Bro there are some teachings of Hagin that are also not consistent with the scripture. Before his death he wrote a book(can't remember the name) to correct some of the errors. There is nothing wrong about someone receiving more light in scriptural application except you want to be hypocritical about it. That your pastor gave a scriptural interpretation hundred years ago and remain on it doesn't mean that he is right. Did you see the Bereans going back to the scripture to search if what Paul taught them was in alliance with the scripture? But the christianity of our time is the one that whatever pastor, G.O. Pope etc says you swallow it without raising objection over the annointed man of God's teaching. But again some people are begining to realise that it shouldn't be so. Your pastor remains a human, you don't even know when his preaching/teaching is propelled by the Holy Spirit and when it is propelled by his personal interest, ego, whims and caprices, greed, level of exposure etc. Hence the need to make your research too. I believe that scriptural issues shouldn't be a one man decision thing. Its something that brethren should reason together.

Gombs:

Please try and employ paragraphs in your posts.....it makes reading easier

Thanks for your opinion though!

alexleo:

Ohhh you are even checking how many likes you get? I didn't notice you have 7 likes. Oya clap for yourself.

Syncan:

hahahaha what manner of man is this . You claimed people appreciated your post, while mine was "nonsensical", then i decided to check the truthfulness of your claim, then i found out seven people appreciated mine enough to like it, and none liked yours . Now you want to make me ask the name for such a claim.

Syncan:

hahahaha what manner of man is this . You claimed people appreciated your post, while mine was "nonsensical", then i decided to check the truthfulness of your claim, then i found out seven people appreciated mine enough to like it, and none liked yours . Now you want to make me ask the name for such a claim.