Liekiller:

Organisms as a whole don't mutate. Their DNA does by means of substitution, insertion, deletion of amino acids. This is referred to as mutation. I'm just pointing this out because the term "mutation" will certainly be misinterpreted in this context otherwise. Apart from that I agree very much that understanding this is fundamental in order to understand evolution. Unfortunately it's almost impossible to get this message across to people who were not fortunate to receive even a minimum of quality education in biology.
By the way mutation is by no means only well proven in microorganisms. It's not some exotic new thing but is very well established and studied in humans too.

Kay17:


Thanks for the clarification, however it is important to begin a persuasion from common grounds of understanding. Since most ID proponets are reluctant to accept mutations in humans it would be hopeless to reach an understanding from that stage.

davien: The emergence of a new species....what do you understand is a species?

EMILO2STAY: An individual belonging to a group of organisms having common characteristics and are capable of mating with one another to produce fertile offspring.

Liekiller:

I'm not sure I understand what you mean, but it sounds as if you believe that anything originating from a common ancestor should still be able to interbreed? Have you ever tried breeding with a chimp? It wouldn't work. And yet we share a common ancestor and still have almost identical genomes. If two closely related but already different species CAN still interbreed it simply means that they are not two completely separate species yet. But I certainly don't see even a minimal clue about how this allegedly contradicts evolution.
Furthermore I will repeat it AGAIN that the theory of evolution as such does NOT make or even try to make any statements about the ORIGIN of life. You can safely believe that there was a "creation" at the very beginning and at the same time accept evolution. These problems are a result of fundamentalist beliefs. MODERATE Christians have NO problems at all with evolution. They are able to see some parts of the bibles as metaphors. Simple as that.

davien: Good....now when a population of a species' cannot breed with the parent population successfully anymore but amongst themselves what do you call that....?

Liekiller: And just a last comment before I say good night: can you explain to me why fundamentalists are so offended by evolution when their biblical story says that all humans on earth are the result of incest between Eve and her sons? I find that idea far more offensive.

EMILO2STAY: hahaha....is this what u want to use and confuse me?, Show a proof of a particular population of living organisms that was studied from the point of speciation due to adaptation to the point where they are unable to interbreed with their parent population.

davien: Quite the contrary i dislike dishonesty....here is the study you asked for,i will even post a commentary from the source

"An excellent example of evolution in action is a 14-year experiment done with Anolis lizards.(Losos et al, 1997) A single species of Anolis lizards was spread across 14 Caribbean islands none of which had any previous lizard populations. Over the time of the experiment, the lizards each adapted to their respective environments. Several new species of lizards evolved. The lizards each changed body shape in response to the flora in their environment. In fact, scientists were able to predict exactly how each lizard population would evolve before seeing the results. Scientists estimate that this change was on the order of 200 darwins, which are measured units of evolutionary change. In comparison, the average rate observed in the fossil record is only 0.6 darwins." from
[url] http://phylointelligence.com/observed.html#speciation [/url]

And also you'd like to read up here to understand speciation in sexually active populations
For organisms that reproduce sexually, speciation begins when parts of a population evolve differences from one another. Eventually, the two parts of the population may evolve so many differences that they can no longer interbreed. This can happen in many different ways — through shifts in mate availability, mate choice, or simply the organisms' ability to mate successfully with one another. Now, two groups of researchers have shown exactly how these mating differences, the first steps in speciation, can evolve in bird populations in less than 50 years.

[url] http://evolution.berkeley.edu/evolibrary/news/100201_speciation [/url]

RikoduoSennin:

The bolded Section is False, a Malicious lie. Quote where such is written in the bible!

This just ruin everything you have been posting on this thread for me.

EMILO2STAY: my dear this has proved nothing now!, the lizard only changed in colour pattarn and size but still remains a lizard,it did not evolve into an aligator or a python.

EMILO2STAY: lol guy ure funny. If humans speciated from chimps due to environmental factor dont u think humans who lost contant with civilation such as those found in the amazon should have speciated into something more like an ape with fur all over their body? Do not use microevolution to prove the macro evolution it cant work that way.
secondly, u cant be a christian and believe in the theory of evolution because that will be like believing that God is an ape.

macof:
Nobody ever said humans separated from chimps.

Pls go read a book. I don't why people are Still bothering with lost illiterates like this

EMILO2STAY: lol guy ure funny. If humans speciated from chimps due to environmental factor dont u think humans who lost contant with civilation such as those found in the amazon should have speciated into something more like an ape with fur all over their body? Do not use microevolution to prove the macro evolution it cant work that way.
secondly, u cant be a christian and believe in the theory of evolution because that will be like believing that God is an ape.

Liekiller:


Who ever said that humans originated from chimps? Nobody. And especially not the theory of evolution. They share a common ancestor with humans. Which is why they are so extremely similar to us (no, that's not an insult to anybody). I have made you aware before that this differentiation between micro and macro evolution makes no sense. Evolution is evolution.
Well, you can't be a FUNDAMENTALIST Christian and believe in evolution. But I sure know numerous MODERATE Christians who have no problem with it. I know that any sort of moderation in religion is not common in Nigeria. Instead we practice our imported religion the way it was practiced in Europe in the 13th century. This is not the case in the rest of the world though.

prettyboi1989:
U knw u actually dumber dan d way u talk? Because u don't know something, u fink it doesn't exist? So because u failed at somthing u fink no other can succeed at it? Now I knw the problem of u people. Aliens exists and are known, like or not, no 1 wants the world to believe that aliens exists. Most of nasa's former employees that were involved with aliens in secret missions wind up dead almost immediately after they reveal secrets of what happened. They send people to kill them. M sure ur ignorance will not let u know that there is a place in america called area 51 whch is a base for covert operations with aliens. U can read about it if u r eager. America has been dealing with aliens since time past.
And I repeat, if u don't believe in God u can't phatom hez existence nor his power so don't try to imagine it. Hez real n he works. If many attest to the fact that something is good, its insanity that will make one ordinary person say they are all lying, so they all planned to lie about how good that thing is abi? Think dude. Its eida u believe dat God is or d devil is.

EMILO2STAY: my dear this has proved nothing now!, the lizard only changed in colour pattarn and size but still remains a lizard,it did not evolve into an aligator or a python.

EMILO2STAY: now the question is, if humans speciated from common ancestors with the chimp,... why hav'nt those humans who lost contact with other human civilization speciated into somthing more like an ape with fur all over there body due to change in enviroment.

EMILO2STAY: are u mad!, i should be asking u that . And yes evolutionist believe a big bang occured out of no where and formed the galaxy , was any evolutionist there when it occured? U guys propose a theory and believe in it with no proof is'nt that faith?, I have ask u to show me one primate that has evolved into human but u have not... Give an evidence of a simple life form that has evolved into a complex one. show me proof of amoeba that has evolved into a rat or a goat; if u cant pls shut up and go to sleep.

EMILO2STAY: now the question is, if humans speciated from common ancestors with the chimp,... why hav'nt those humans who lost contact with other human civilization speciated into somthing more like an ape with fur all over there body due to change in enviroment.

Psylas: our life span is too shot for us to notice that, it'll take hundreds million year to notice it

EMILO2STAY: how do u know it will take a hundred million years to notice.

EMILO2STAY: my dear this has proved nothing now!, the lizard only changed in colour pattarn and size but still remains a lizard,it did not evolve into an aligator or a python.

Liekiller:

Err, is it you who decides how something SHOULD evolve?! In fact, nobody decides. Evolution has come up with a million different adaptations. Humans adapted to their environments differently than chimps. And do you have an example of one human population that was isolated from the rest? And if you have such an example can you explain why they would necessarily evolve into "something like a chimp"? Btw I'm still waiting for your explanation about the "creation" of females.

davien: why would a lizard evolve into an already present genetic heirachy?!
And i posted that link for you to read up on...doubtfully you didn't...that goes to show you have a presupposition about it of not being true....if you did bother to read it you would have read about the observed development of entirely new organs(new to that particular specie)

"Lizards of the species Podarcis sicula from a nearby island were introduced by scientists to a new island previously uninhabited by scientists in 1971. Since then, several evolutionary changes have occurred. This included the formation of completely new organs in the lizards known as cecal valves, which helped the lizards digest their new strictly plant diet. To the left is a photograph of the cecal valve in a male specimen."

EMILO2STAY: there are several people in the amazon jungle who have lost contact with civilation and according to ur evolution theory this people should have evolved to somthing more like an ape cuz of the need to adapt to their environment.
As for the eve case; Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos.
so as u can see adam had several sons and daugthers laters and seth would have taken his wife from their offring.

EMILO2STAY: this has not proved anything. According to evolution theory humans speciated from apes to become humans , This lizards should have speciated from a lizard to aligator or somthing totaly different.

EMILO2STAY: this has not proved anything. According to evolution theory humans speciated from apes to become humans , This lizards should have speciated from a lizard to aligator or somthing totaly different.

EMILO2STAY: there are several people in the amazon jungle who have lost contact with civilation and according to ur evolution theory this people should have evolved to somthing more like an ape cuz of the need to adapt to their environment.
As for the eve case; Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, and after his image; and called his name Seth: And the days of Adam after he had begotten Seth were eight hundred years: and he begat sons and daughters: And all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years: and he died. And Seth lived an hundred and five years, and begat Enos.
so as u can see adam had several sons and daugthers laters and seth would have taken his wife from their offring.

Liekiller:


If you need more proof that life forms indeed do share common ancestors, then have a look here. Every species still carries its ancestral DNA. This means you still carry the genes of your very distant reptile, fish etc. ancestors. During embryogenesis you follow the evolutionary path where you came from. This can be seen by the fact that you start off as one cell, then become an aggregation of cells, then you become a fish-like creature with gills etc. So let's look at a few atavisms. These are evolutionary throwbacks. This means that some ancestral genes can be expressed again phenotypically (after they had been "shut off" in the course of evolution, which made us lose certain traits).

The genes that made our ancestor grow fur have been shut off. When they are not suppressed, you get humans with fur.
The genes that made our ancestor have a tail were shut off as well. When they are not suppressed, you get humans with rudimentary tails.
The genes that made our ancestor have rows of nip-ples were shut off during primate evolution. When they are no longer suppressed you get humans with supernumerary nip-ples.
The genes that made the ancestor of snakes have legs were suppressed during the evolution of snakes. When they are no longer suppressed, snakes can grow legs.

Interesting, right?