chukwudi,i dont agree with u,is there any church that doesnt practise tithing?

segyemaro:

chukwudi,i don't agree with u,is there any church that doesnt practise tithing?

There are actually a lot of churches that don't pracitse or preach tithing, however if you decided as a memb er to still pay tithes out of your own free will, they would gladly accept. There is nothing actually wrong with tithing. It is the evil manner that it is being preached as compulsory and non negotiable that is the big problem.

kunle how was the christmas?i have never been to a church that tithing is not emphasized. i have been to a curch were a tithing card is given to each tither,so i have never been to a chrch wewe tithing is not forced.

Xmas was nice, had a peacefull time at home with my family. Most old generation churches don't emphasize tithes even though they don't preach that it compulsary tithing is wrong as is being preached by the younger generation churches. Some honetst pastors would even admit to you that tithing as it is being practised today is completely unscriptural.

kunle,when io went through your posting on WHAT MY PASTOR WOULD NOT TELL ME,there is this particular chapter in Deut 26;12,i was made to understand that it is soppose to be a once in a month tithing but not weekly/monthly affair. More grease and vaseline to your brain.

segyemaro:

kunle,when io went through your posting on WHAT MY PASTOR WOULD NOT TELL ME,there is this particular chapter in Deut 26;12,i was made to understand that it is soppose to be a once in a month tithing but not weekly/monthly affair. More grease and vaseline to your brain.

On the contrary biblical tithing was once a year at the time of harvest and there was a second type of tithes which was every three years Deut 14: 22-29

Though I'm pope 1, it's not a religious title and I'm not a Pastor but a Tithe paying Christian.

The Church of God that I know does not need your Tithe. Neither is any one called to be a pastor by God in need of your money but you will forever need HIM. What you think you have in your hand is the only connector to what He has in His store.

Pleaseeeee, stop paying tithe and offering and let see who close down.

if we stop giving tithe and offerings,most of these guys will go out of business.

Giving money the church is not wrong,but threatening people that they must pay 10 percent .Truly no organization can survive without funding,but the donations must be freely given and must not be any fixed percentage.****************************************************************************

@pilgrim.1
hello ma,happy new year o.how're you doing?

Giving God (Church) 10% of all God's blessings is not mandatory unless you want t rob GOD - Read Malachi 3:10. Try GIVING and see if the windows of heaven will not open for you.

i give freely and god has not stopped blessing me.mind you giving freely does not mean it must be less than 10 %.it can be 0,1,2,3,4, 100%.depending on your financial strenght.on the contraly if you give to fulfil the obsolete mosaic law you place urself under a curse(gal 3:10)

Dearest beloved friends,

i'll wish to start by saying a HAPPY NEW ROMAN YEAR to you all

now let me go straight to the topic at hand, i will explain as short as i could



this issue of tithing has been one of the most controversial issues of the endtime church and i really think its because of the way it has been abused by both the ignorant , greedy and callous so called MOG's

first we must all accept the fact that tithe was an injuction that emanated from God himself thru' Moses and intended for the followers of the LAW whom the bible said were followers of the "SHADOWS of things to come"(col.2:14-17)

every thing as seen in the old covenant (testament: if incase we have forgotten) were patterns of what was to be expected in the new covenant, with tithing included

now bible says Jesus was the real substance(embodiment) of wat was all practised in the old covenant

someone said:"but he said tithing in the new covenant? didnt he?"

my answer is yes, but to whom?

was it to his disciples (his true followers) or to the hypocrites (pharisees and oppressors) --- answer for yourself

one thing we all must realise is that the whole old covenant law was divided into two namely

THE RITUALS AND THE[b] MORALS[/b]

the[b] rituals[/b] which were offerings, cleansing, observing of seasons and tithing inclusive were most of 90% intended to the nation isreal because of their hardened minds (Hebrew 3 and 4), apostle paul said "now let no one judge you in food, drink , season and so on" because chirst the substance is wat we should pursue ( paraphrasing the verse as in col.2. . . )

now the morals[/b]were what holds for the new covenant believer and there are justice, mercy and faith"(matt.23:23)

mark this, bible never said "pay ur tithe without which no man shall see God" but the righteousness and holiness

now i am not against tithing in anyway, but listen since tithe emanated from the old covenant (ritual part of the law)then if you pay tithe then u must keep the whole part of the ritual laws, u must keep away from certain meats, u must not wear linen and silk nor cotton together at once and so on and so forth

but, if u choose to keep the new covenant and its instruction then u must keep it with fear and trembling, mind you [b]giving was also an injuction by Jesus (lk.6:38) and apostle paul of the gentiles (2cor.9>>>>

but b4 u say this or that, make sure you know the truth enough to defend yourself (John.8:32) lest any man deceives you (Eph.5:6)


God bless you

@Tonye t
Nice summation

Posted by: chukwudi44
Insert Quote
only the fake churches would go into extinction.churches has survived for centuries without this evil practice called tithing.the church would always survive withou tithes

chukwudi44:


please can you state the churches that survived for centuries and also provide verifiable sources of their funding.

regarding the title of this thread

A person who has faith in Jesus Christ does not worry about whether tithing is commanded in the New Testament. A person who is transformed by Christ to be more like Christ is generous. Such a person wants to give as much as possible to support the gospel and to support needy members. Christians should give generously — but giving is a result of their relationship with God, not a way to earn it. We are given grace through faith, not through tithing. culled from http://www.wcg.org/lit/law/tithing.htm

i also notice all these criticisms are targeted at pastors. what about the congregation with excessive love of filthy lucre? it is the greedy and insincere who are usually gullible. no one forces anyone to go to a particular church and the one you choose is your preferred option. just like there are real and fake doctors, we have real and fake churches. let everyman take heed cos these are the last days. also let everyman approach the Lord with sincerity of the heart. its should also be noted here that giving to the work of the Lord brings blessings in various other ways apart from monetary benefits alons



whether you are paying tithe or offerings it should be borne out of love for the Lord and love for the brethren. it should be out of honest sincere heart and it should be from honest earnings, money brought by corrupt politicians and their contractors should not be accepted because of the rot from source

"No" becuase you are not give it to men but God Almighty in heaven, pay your tithe it with all you heart, dont fill cheated when give any thing to God, God sees your heart.

Angelina wat point are you trying to make?pls expantiate.

Come to think of it is the tithe soppose to be 10% of your basic salary or total gross?

If tithing was a holy institution before then it still is. The same purpose it served it still serves today.

I also want to clear up something that I have seen said by many a persons on the topic. Tithing was never instituted by Moses, nor is something to be restricted to the Old Testament.

In Gen 14:20, we read "And blessed be the Most High God , which hath delivered thine enemies into thine hand. And he gave Him tithes of all."

Its pretty obvious that the principle of tithing was introduced to the patriarchs long before Moses came on the scene. Where did Abraham learn to pay tithes like that? Out of the nowhere?

Stewardship was always a principle encouraged by God among His people to test their faithfulness. How we manage God's resources is usually a strong indication as to where we are going spiritually. True and faithful Christians will be faithful stewards of the three most important things given to man:

1 time

2. treasure (the things we feel we possess but truly belong to God)

3. talents (all the skills that God has bestowed on us)

When tithing was introduced to the Israelites it was a means of maintaining the ministry in order to prevent the priests from having to work for a living. The priests' sole duty was to focus on spiritual matters. It is believed that on those occasions when Israel back slided it was associated with a lack of faithfulness in returning the tithe. When the priests were forced to work then the spiritual feeding of the flock was compromised.

Take a look at those lives who participate in systematic giving, and compare them to those who are only Christians by profession. I am apart of a tithe-paying organization that pays all its pastors a salary that is sourced from tithing. All our denominational educators are also paid from the tithe, because we consider them ministers of Christian education.

Friends we own nothing in this life. All belongs to God. Has anyone seen a text in the NT that has denounced tithing? If it were associated with only Moses don't you think that at least one of the apostles would have mentioned it? Jesus made a passing reference about it, but He didn't suggest it was obsolete, did He?

So why are we making such a big ado about it?

Bobbyaf:

If tithing was a holy institution before then it still is. Tithing was never instituted by Moses, nor is something to be restricted to the Old Testament.

I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on the highlighted.  Moses instituted Tithing because the Israelites were not paying taxes. Also, tithing in Malachi 3 was for the Levi (#11) tribes.  The other ten tribes were to pay tithes to help the Levi tribes.

Tithing was based on the Old Covenant. We no longer live under the Law of Moses, but rather under the Law of Christ hence no mention of Tithing in the NT. 

2 Corinthians 9 clearly states how God wants us to give. . . . .  we give cheerfully (Offering); I don't recall in the NT a 10% rule, and I can’t find one when I search.   We are more obligated to our family and help who are in need as per the book of Timothy.  Charity begins at home


Peace

@ Cayon

I'm sorry, but I must respectfully disagree with you on the highlighted.  Moses instituted Tithing because the Israelites were not paying taxes. Also, tithing in Malachi 3 was for the Levi (#11) tribes.  The other ten tribes were to pay tithes to help the Levi tribes.

So on what basis did Abraham pay his tithe?

Tithing was based on the Old Covenant. We no longer live under the Law of Moses, but rather under the Law of Christ hence no mention of Tithing in the NT.

That is why I asked you to explain to the fora why Abraham payed tithes of all? Moses was not yet around much less the children of Israel.

2 Corinthians 9 clearly states how God wants us to give. . . . .  we give cheerfully (Offering); I don't recall in the NT a 10% rule, and I can’t find one when I search.   We are more obligated to our family and help who are in need as per the book of Timothy.  Charity begins at home

Likewise I haven't seen anything against it.  The absence of proof doesn't mean proof of absence.

Peace

Bobbyaf:

@ Cayon

So on what basis did Abraham pay his tithe?

If I am understanding you correctly -

Didn't God command Abraham and others to pay 10% of profits from war? 10% for feasting and 1/2 shekel regardless of their debts etc.

Bobbyaf:


Likewise I haven't seen anything against it.  The absence of proof doesn't mean proof of absence.

True, but how one can make something out of nothing

Peace

If we do not give,How do U expect the pastor to provide for him and his family?

Bobbyaf,

The tithe that Abraham paid before Moses' time was something he did of his own freewill;it was not based on an order from God or any commandment of God.It was a freewill situation.
In other words,if he had not given the tithe then,it would not have meant he would have lost favour in God's sight.he chose to do it on his on volition.

Now,under the old covenant which was established through Moses, and spanning to the Malachi accounts,the tithing there was based on God's command,so the people paid it/returned it/gave it because of that command and not because they were operating on freewill.As is very obvious,there were penalties for not paying such tithes.
Therefore,the tithe paying/giving then was not because the people had love for others or felt compassion for the needy;it was because they were under compulsion by the commandment(that is not to say some people didn't genuinely have compassion for othrs then).

In the new covenant,every form of giving which exists is based on the freewill and the compassion and love of the giver towards those that are in need.It does not flow along the same lines as giving based on commandments and specific stipulations.Tithes which are based on commandments and specifics don't belong to the order or way of the new covenant.

But,the most reasonable reason why tithes can not be under the new covenant is because they were a law to the people under the old covenant which Christians do not operate under anymore.

If a christian, out of love for others or a specific need to be met,gives 10% of what he has to help out, it is labeled as giving as he/she purposes or settles in his/her mind and not a tithe.If a Christian gives 10% of what he/she has to any cause or need out of the compulsion of the "Pay tithes" commandment,and not because of genuine love and willingness to help out, such a Christian is simply obeying an abolished law and is forcing Galatians 5:4 upon himself/herself.
Paying of tithes because of the law to pay it;that is paying it in accordance to the law,defeats the theme of the new covenant,which is love as the basis of everything done.

The new covenant only supports giving of different kinds,different amounts,- there are no specifics or stipulation and they all stem from love and also from willingness to help and are done according to the determination of the giver.Anybody can definitely see that the rules of tithes don't agree with these conditions.

SeanT21:

If we do not give,How do U expect the pastor to provide for him and his family?

Nobody told the Pastor that he should not have another job to support himself and his family.Don't they have Paul and other Apostles as examples to follow?
It is the current structure and organization of most denominations today which were established by men that is forcing the pastors to make tithes become the source of their livelyhood.

circumcision was also instituted by God to abraham ,before he gave the law to moses,yet st paul condemmed it in his teachings as being part of the law.
How many times did abraham pay tithes to melchizedek?

@tt

very well said

Peace

SeanT21:

If we do not give,How do U expect the pastor to provide for him and his family?

Churches advocating tithing as compulsory are putting pressure on their congregations.  The NT speaks of “Giving” as opposed to tithing

2 Cor 9:7
Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver

There is a big difference between giving to God and giving to the church.  Ask God to direct you and give from your heart NOT AS THE PASTOR DIRECTS YOU.


OT Tithing

Levite's tithe

Lev 27:30
'A tithe of everything from the land, whether grain from the soil or fruit from the trees, belongs to the LORD; it is holy to the LORD.
Lev 27:32
The entire tithe of the herd and flock-- every tenth animal that passes under the shepherd's rod-- will be holy to the LORD.
Num 18:24
Instead, I give to the Levites as their inheritance the tithes that the Israelites present as an offering to the LORD. That is why I said concerning them: 'They will have no inheritance among the Israelites.'"
The Lord then commanded the Levites to give a tenth of their portion to the priests (see also 2 Chronicles 31:4), 

Num 18:28
In this way you also will present an offering to the LORD from all the tithes you receive from the Israelites. From these tithes you must give the LORD's portion to Aaron the priest.

Harvest tithe

Deut 12:11-12
Then to the place the LORD your God will choose as a dwelling for his Name-- there you are to bring everything I command you: your burnt offerings and sacrifices, your tithes and special gifts, and all the choice possessions you have vowed to the LORD.
And there rejoice before the LORD your God, you, your sons and daughters, your menservants and maidservants, and the Levites from your towns, who have no allotment or inheritance of their own.

Poor people tithe

Deut 14:28-29
28 At the end of every three years, bring all the tithes of that year's produce and store it in your towns,
29 so that the Levites (who have no allotment or inheritance of their own) and the aliens, the fatherless and the widows who live in your towns may come and eat and be satisfied, and so that the LORD your God may bless you in all the work of your hands

The Pastor is suppose to focus on preaching the gospel.He needs to study the bible from Monday-Saturday.How do U expect him to do all this if he has 2 jobs.

With out tithe how will the church bills be paid?

SeanT21:

The Pastor is suppose to focus on preaching the gospel.He needs to study the bible from Monday-Saturday.How do U expect him to do all this if he has 2 jobs.

With out tithe how will the church bills be paid?

A Pastor does not need to study from Monday to Saturday to know what to preach.He can study at anytime he can.And besides,regular and frequent studying is supposed to have given a pastor enough and proper info about the gospel message to be able to preach the word of God at any point in time;not necessarily the traditional Sunday church service

Churches of today have incredulous bills to pay based on their man made structure and organization which do not conform to the structure of the gospel.
Churches can operate today without acquiring or accumulating bills.But even if bills do come up,they can be handled by the generous and freewill giving from the congregation.I know of a church that does not acquire any bills except for its rentage fee.

@ ttalks

The tithe that Abraham paid before Moses' time was something he did of his own freewill; it was not based on an order from God or any commandment of God. It was a freewill situation.

Jacob vowed a vow, saying, Gen 28:22

"This stone that I have set up as a pillar will be God's house, and of all that you give me I will give you a tenth"

Here was a man of God without being asked or commanded who freely established systematic giving.

In other words, if he had not given the tithe then, it would not have meant he would have lost favour in God's sight. he chose to do it on his on volition.

And why didn't Melchezidek refuse it? Yet we don't know for sure if there was not something already in place. We can't assume either way.

Now,under the old covenant which was established through Moses, and spanning to the Malachi accounts,the tithing there was based on God's command,so the people paid it/returned it/gave it because of that command and not because they were operating on freewill.

What kind of a people would that make them out to be if they only paid the tithe that was based on a command. What kind of a God would that be that forces people's free will to pay a tithe if they didn't desire to pay? Tithing can't be wrong if its based on a command, because in the NT we have been commanded to teach and preach, among other things. In fact adultery, stealing, and other sins have been commanded against which have been passed down through the dispensations regardless of whether or not we are under the OT, or NT.

I raised that point to say that God's command doesn't in any way affect one's free will. There had to have been a reason why God commanded it in the first place, and that was based on the stark reality that the temple needed the resources in order to function effectively, and that those stiff necked people needed to see that.

As is very obvious,there were penalties for not paying such tithes. Therefore, the tithe paying/giving then was not because the people had love for others or felt compassion for the needy; it was because they were under compulsion by the commandment(that is not to say some people didn't genuinely have compassion for othrs then).

And there were penalties for other laws that were broken too. You see sometimes God has to command things as if we were children. They were spiritual children at the time and needed laws to mold them. Although God's laws are always meant for good, sometimes they can be not so appreciated by those on the receiving end. There is a difference between free will and choice. Free will is a gift we have of God who doesn't need robots to worship Him. A choice is something we make based on the free will we have, and based upon the relationship we have with God.

In the new covenant, every form of giving which exists is based on the freewill and the compassion and love of the giver towards those that are in need. It does not flow along the same lines as giving based on commandments and specific stipulations.Tithes which are based on commandments and specifics don't belong to the order or way of the new covenant.

The tithing was never about alms. It was never about having compassion for anyone. It was designed to secure and maintain the ministry of the temple. Why do you think that God allowed the prophet Malachi to have used strong language in describing those who refused to support God's cause? God Himself called them thieves, and robbers.

But,the most reasonable reason why tithes can not be under the new covenant is because they were a law to the people under the old covenant which Christians do not operate under anymore.

And I keep saying that the law came into being only when Israel became unfaithful. The fact that God commanded it then, shows its importance.

If a christian, out of love for others or a specific need to be met,gives 10% of what he has to help out, it is labeled as giving as he/she purposes or settles in his/her mind and not a tithe.If a Christian gives 10% of what he/she has to any cause or need out of the compulsion of the "Pay tithes" commandment,and not because of genuine love and willingness to help out, such a Christian is simply obeying an abolished law and is forcing Galatians 5:4 upon himself/herself.
Paying of tithes because of the law to pay it;that is paying it in accordance to the law,defeats the theme of the new covenant,which is love as the basis of everything done.

Let me ask of you a question. If a Christian doesn't commit adultery when tempted must we assume he or she doesn't because the law says so, or because they love God? Only God knows the heart. You cannot use the law as an excuse for not wanting to freely do something for God. The law only acts as a guide.

The new covenant only supports giving of different kinds,different amounts,- there are no specifics or stipulation and they all stem from love and also from willingness to help and are done according to the determination of the giver.Anybody can definitely see that the rules of tithes don't agree with these conditions.

Under the NC what would you consider to be reasonable giving?

Why should we stop paying tithe? Malachi 3: 8-10 states the reason why you should pay it and the result of not paying it . If you desire God`s blessings then pay it irrespective of whatever anyone does with it. it is God you are obeying not man.

Bobbyaf,

Look at it this way:

Hebrews 8:6-13
(6)  But now hath he obtained a more excellent ministry, by how much also he is the mediator of a better covenant, which was established upon better promises.
(7)  For if that first covenant had been faultless, then should no place have been sought for the second.
(8  For finding fault with them, he saith, Behold, the days come, saith the Lord, when I will make a new covenant with the house of Israel and with the house of Judah:
(9) Not according to the covenant that I made with their fathers in the day when I took them by the hand to lead them out of the land of Egypt; because they continued not in my covenant, and I regarded them not, saith the Lord.
(10)  For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, saith the Lord; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: and I will be to them a God, and they shall be to me a people:
(11)  And they shall not teach every man his neighbour, and every man his brother, saying, Know the Lord: for all shall know me, from the least to the greatest.
(12)  For I will be merciful to their unrighteousness, and their sins and their iniquities will I remember no more.
(13)  In that he saith, A new covenant, he hath made the first old. Now that which decayeth and waxeth old is ready to vanish away.

The emphasis I'm trying to lay is on verse 9.God said the new covenant will not be according to the former.That simply means,the new covenant will be different from the old and definitely would have its own requirements and not the requirements of the old.

When the old was established,the requirements were what were required to be kept by the people and not what existed before.Though tithes existed before the law,they were not the same way before the law when practised within the law(Personal decision as against a command).

The titles new and old speak volumes.Old means done away, new means existing and fresh(as regards the covenants).This simply means the old had its way and the new has its own way.

Now,within the new covenant,we are expected to obey the provisions of the new covenant alone and not the provisions of the law or the provisions that existed when there was no covenant.

Hebrews 10:19-20
(19)  Having therefore, brethren, boldness to enter into the holiest by the blood of Jesus,
(20)  By[b] a new and living way[/b], which he hath consecrated for us, through the veil, that is to say, his flesh;

Verse 20 shows we have a new and living way within the new covenant, not a life of incorporation of what was existing before.

Now back to the tithes proper;we all know that tithes before the law and within the law had specific stipulations upon them(as in amount or percentage)and it could also be considered as a form of giving, right?

Now look at this:

2Co 9:7
(7) Every man according as he purposeth in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loveth a cheerful giver.

Giving under the new testament is based on the above condition. Tithes are not as a man purposes or decides for himself because they have specific stipulations that are devoid of how much a man would want to give from what he has.
Also, tithes are of necessity based on the reason for them.
Giving within the new testament is based on love and compassion for those in need.