When Jesus came to the earth,there was no place were we were told that,people complete forms to see him for either prayer or healing.But for our dear pastors before you can see any of them fo counselling,you will have to book and be given an appointment before you can see him,.Pls why is it like this?

segyemaro:

When Jesus came to the earth,there was no place were we were told that,people complete forms to see him

How dare you compare Jesus with pastors To the best of my knowledge most of these so called pastors don't even follow the teachings of christ which is centred on practical love. What they teach are mostly man made doctrines presented as the word of God.

I don't see any problem filling a form before seeing a pastor but my concerned is to know whether
it is of the spirit (led by God) doing so or just to boost their own ego. May God deliver us.

Pastors are big-headed arrogant knobs nowadays!!

i dont know about filling a form but i do know that pastors are human beings and some of them have families to cater to.

having said that, the form thing sounds sketchy to me

wat i see is that they are doing that to boost their ego,i doubt if any of them can cast out demon or go to okija shrine to destroy there.

The church is meant to be a family of believers, can you imagine filling a form to see your dad

you can imagine that,pastors are General overseers while their wives are second in command,then the children are shareholders,realy God is merciful.

hehehehe Its Naija

Pastors are "big men" . . . what do you expect? They are too busy to tend the sheep.

segyemaro:

you can imagine that,pastors are General overseers while their wives are second in command,then[b] the children are shareholders[/b],realy God is merciful.

The children are definitely not shareholders as they don't get to share out of the proceeds of the business, they can at best be describe as customers or servants.

.

[b]L O L!!!


Because church is a business, and he needs to keep track of who is paying tithes or not!! L O L.

Its absolute nonsense, why should I fill in a form to see my Pastor.

www.churchwhereabouts.com

There is so much cynicism in the house!

Some pastors require you to complete forms so their time can be scheduled/managed properly - they know who is coming and why, and thus can better attend to your needs. It also serves as a form of records that can be used to pray or intercede on behalf of the person.

This is particularly relevant when a large congregation is involved in order to prevent the pastor being overburdened with constant consultation and being unable to attend to prayer, seeking God's face and searching the scripture to bring forth valuable insight/revelation from the Father to feed the flock as required.

Filling a form serves administrative/time management purposes - how many 'dads' have 300 'children' who want to see him at the same time? Besides, God is our true Father, we don't need to wait or fill any forms to go to Him.

Bottom line is, even Jesus was not available at every moment, he went to the mountain to meditate on his own at times and to visit family and friends - pastors deserve the same consideration.

The truth is that 90% of what people are going to see pastoors for are not even necessary, as christians we have been made priests of our lord Jesus christ and we don't need an earthly intercessor. however pastors like to create an impression that they are closer to God than you hence their prayers would be better answered, thus keeping you psycologically dependent on them.

Oh my my Really?

I have neva heard of this in my life. i pray that pastor burn in hell

I guess it is for admin purposes.

Believers & Priesthood

In the Body of Christ, there are no class or hierarchical divisions. The only real distinction is maturity in your walk and time spent in His presence (Acts 4:13). There is no mandate or requirement to have some believers differentiated (i.e. elevated) by ordination or theological/seminary training (John 7:15).

The bible clearly attests to the priesthood of all believers (1 Peter 2:9, Revelations 1:6). More mature believers if they fulfill the criteria may serve as elders (this role is the same as pastor/shepherd/bishop, the different renderings merely describe various facets of the same role). Likewise, others may serve as deacons. The personal qualities for both are clearly spelt out in the pastoral epistles (Timothy & Titus). These are the only roles required in NT Christianity.

Furthermore, the ethos is one of servant-leadership;
Matthew 20:25 But Jesus called them to Himself and said, "You know that the rulers of the Gentiles lord it over them, and those who are great exercise authority over them. 26 Yet it shall not be so among you; but whoever desires to become great among you, let him be your servant. 27 And whoever desires to be first among you, let him be your slave-- 28 just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many."

Hierarchies, reporting lines and corporate structures are simply not necessary in the Body of Christ (and I believe that authority stems primarily from the family and not the Church. 1 Corinthians 11:1-3).

1 Peter 5:1 The elders who are among you I exhort, I who am a fellow elder and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, and also a partaker of the glory that will be revealed: 2 Shepherd the flock of God which is among you, serving as overseers, not by compulsion but willingly, not for dishonest gain but eagerly; 3 nor as being lords over those entrusted to you, but being examples to the flock;

Christian leadership is a sacrificial service aimed at providing an example to the less mature and guidance, counsel and direction for the whole flock of God. The aim of our collective fellowship, the various gifts and all the offices, so beautifully enunciated in Ephesians chapter 4, is to bring all believers to maturity in Christ.

And just as the interaction between the Head and members of this family is relational, likewise, fellowship between the individual members of the body of Christ is clearly meant to be relationship based and not functionally ordered. It’s corporeal and not corporate, a body not an institution. It is edification by knitting together through love. He’s a Father not a Chairman/CEO.

As long as a hierarchical (religious) divide exists between clergy and laity, this will never be the case. Ironically, it takes both sides to both justify and perpetuate. To do this they have to foster spiritual dependence by the laity (so called) on the clergy (so called). For this unscriptural state of affairs to continue, certain truths have to be suppressed or misapplied. The situation is further compounded by the cult of personality, which grows up around certain religious figures. Please, don’t let the fallen nature (and it’s lust for Power, Profit, Position & Prestige) along with your affection for human culture and love of religious tradition to rob you of intimacy with God.

The new covenant appoints a new royal priesthood comprising of ALL BELIVERS (1 Peter 2:5, 9, Revelations 1:6), and a new High priest, sworn by an oath according to the order of Melchizedek. (Hebrews 6:20, 7:26, 8:1, 9:11). Hallelujah! Praises to God most high. It’s that simple.


God bless
TV

^{note: the mandate assumed by so called pastors in most churches today is a self-arrogated one and nowhere found in scripture. Eldership in a church setting is always by a plurality of qualified male elders (all things being equal). Nowhere in the biblical narrative is there leave or example of a single person "pastoring" a church. I acknowlege the right of all to make kings over themselves if they so wish.}

I agree with your surmise TV01, but you cannot neglect the fact that, in large groups of people, it becomes cumbersome to deal with everything simply on a 'family basis' - there are church finances to be managed, buildings, provisions and the like - to properly achieve this, you will require some level of formalisation to have proper accountability in those areas.

I believe there shouldn't be heirachial operation in the church, but you do require functionality and delegation of responsibility to manage things properly.

It's all well and good to say it is all a family arrangement, but there is also responsibility as well.

As to your last bit about 'pastoring' a church, I think it depends. If one goes to a new area and starts off a church, will he immediately form an 'elders council' from his new converts? There will be some level of formal leadership from one person at some point, even if it's not a be all, end all person. The elders are required as well, but in a case where someone gets to know Christ and grows, moves to a new area and forms a fellowship of believers - which body of elders will he report to? We do not have a single structure of elders to which all christians can agree to as the leading body, so inevitably, till there is growth within a particular fellowship for that to occur, individuals will have to take on that role.

Even in the household of God, there is still a need to submit to authority/leader in certain aspects.

People do need to be weaned off needing to see the Pastor so often, but in the interim, administrative measures are needed to ensure that all members of the family get their desired audience with the shepherd.

OBVIOUS:

Because church is a business, and he needs to keep track of who is paying tithes or not!

I wont be surprised if most pastors are the first set of people lined up to rot in the most ferocious part of hell fire!!

What a waste of time filling in a form to a see a Man of God, I will never do that.



www.churchwhereabouts.com

Unbelievable

debosky:

I agree with your surmise TV01,

Actually, I don't think you do, but no problemo!

debosky:

but you cannot neglect the fact that, in large groups of people, it becomes cumbersome to deal with everything simply on a 'family basis' - there are church finances to be managed, buildings, provisions and the like - to properly achieve this, you will require some level of formalisation to have proper accountability in those areas.

And here's why; My underlying premise is that church should not be "institutionalised". I believe that is what you are suggesting, or maybe I should say what you are suggesting will inevitably lead to.

debosky:

I believe there shouldn't be heirachial operation in the church, but you do require functionality and delegation of responsibility to manage things properly.

Elders and deacons only. Church assembly is to equip and care for believers.

debosky:

It's all well and good to say it is all a family arrangement, but there is also responsibility as well.

As above. Elders and deacons, give the assembly of believers enough structure, without forcing it into an organisational mould.

debosky:

As to your last bit about 'pastoring' a church, I think it depends. If one goes to a new area and starts off a church, will he immediately form an 'elders council' from his new converts? There will be some level of formal leadership from one person at some point, even if it's not a be all, end all person. The elders are required as well, but in a case where someone gets to know Christ and grows, moves to a new area and forms a fellowship of believers - which body of elders will he report to? We do not have a single structure of elders to which all christians can agree to as the leading body, so inevitably, till there is growth within a particular fellowship for that to occur, individuals will have to take on that role.

I made that caveat in the subscript - all things being equal, i.e. in normal circumstances. Contingent situations will have to be dealt with on that basis. What if there are 3 or 4 believers in a female prison? I'm not being religious about it.

In most "normal" situations these days, what could be considered the norm does not obtain. It's usually a hierarchy of pastors, with a "sole authority pastor" atop. Everything from associate, assistant, co-head, head, conference, regional national overseer, G.O and variations thereof. Attendant in most denominations it may be, but it's not the biblically prescribed norm. IMO.

debosky:

Even in the household of God, there is still a need to submit to authority/leader in certain aspects.

I agree. In certain respects, to certain degrees, in certain ways and perhaps for certain times.

debosky:

People do need to be weaned off needing to see the Pastor so often, but in the interim, administrative measures are needed to ensure that all members of the family get their desired audience with the shepherd.

God never gave anyone a pastor, nor is there anyway to discern what obtains for the normal "SAP" mandate from the biblical narrative. The audience of Christianity is with the "Most High". If you would allow, God would place exactly who you need in your path when you need them. And it may not be a "pastor". No administration required. Can a pastor be with you - or promise to go with you - wherever you go, even to the ends of the earth?

I don't deny people the right to exercise or fellowship in anyway they see fit, I am merely enunciating what I see outlined in the biblical narrative.

God bless
TV

Well Debosky has being exceptional with his reply.The problem is that many people are not realistic or practical.I believe in most cases,the major aim of filling forms is for better administration. How is it you have a head pastor over close to or more than 5000 people and then members and non members are coming to see him for one thing or another,and then you find it wrong for people to fill forms stating their purpose of visit?It's to sort out in level of priority. The truth is that most of this people who came to see the pastor don't even have to see/disturb the pastor. Most of their cases are cases that can be personally handled or prayed for by their cell leader or some other junior leader in the church. But maybe because of human nature or something they want to make sure it is pastor that prays for them before they believe it is well. Thats why forms should be filled and the necessary cases can be brought forward to the pastor while other cases can be well taken care of by other reliable hands in the church.Maybe you should put yourself in others shoes first before you come condemning.
This is normal administrative wisdom that has being in effect as far back as the time of Moses and written for our learning.You can check Deuteronomy 1v15 and co. Also in Acts 6,some people came complaining about something to the apostles.7 others were appointed to meet the need while at least 12apostles,not one,12 focused on what they felt were more important.and then TV01 is saying God never gave anyone a pastor?what happened to Jeremiah 3v15 and Ephesians4v11 and 12?

Evidently the struture of most churches as they stand and operate today as no biblical basis

All i know is that there was no place in the bible were people completed forms before seeing Jesus,and He had the more crowd than any of the pastors we can think of.Who are these pastors emulating?

its realy wrong for any pastor to ask anyone to complete form before seeing him.well these our so called pastors are full of egostic,i am sure very soon one of them will write his bible.

yea, Jesus never asked for anyone to complete a form before seeing him.