davidylan:


this is actually an illogical argument... a red herring meant to detract from the fact that most who whine about science actually know very little about it. We can prove oxygen exists empirically... where is the empirical proof that macro evolution is true? That is the question and constantly avoiding it in favor of juvenile outbursts such as yours basically exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of your likes.

lol again i see the retort to "thinking outside the box"... the truth is that you aren't thinking outside the box either. Virtually all of your "science" is basically copied from what atheists websites feed you. At least some like to think inside the box, you don't seem capable of any original thought whatsoever.

Point! You need to see this

https://www.nairaland.com/2161883/challenge-nairaland-atheist#30993273

AllNaijaBlogger:


Point! You need to see this

https://www.nairaland.com/2161883/challenge-nairaland-atheist#30993273

lol thanks for the note. The very first post that caught my attention basically highlights the ridiculous idiocy of the typical atheist (quoting from plaetton's post - his words in blue)...

I can entertain the possibility that aliens a million years more technologically advanced than us may have seeded life on earth.

huh? He is ok believing that atheists seeded life on earth but has a problem believing a God could have seeded life on earth? What is the difference? Just the words used to describe those who first seeded life on earth?

However , to say that the universe was designed because of this or that requires that you at least attempt to show what a non-designed universe would look like.

Senseless really. The idea that somehow we live in a non-designed universe is a belief held only by those who have basically switched off their ability to think. Has he taken a look at the human brain and how complex it is? Somehow he claims that just appeared by magic?

There has to be comparison between a god-designed universe and a possibly non god-designed universe.

Well perhaps plaetton should start by showing us what he thinks a god-designed universe would look like? Like liekiller here, they are basically unable to argue the atheist viewpoint... probably because they really have no viewpoint other than the regurgitated nonsense they read off other websites. They are more comfortable spending all day debating religion... from folks who regale us that its all myth of course.

davidylan:


lol thanks for the note. The very first post that caught my attention basically highlights the ridiculous idiocy of the typical atheist (quoting from plaetton's post - his words in blue)...

I can entertain the possibility that aliens a million years more technologically advanced than us may have seeded life on earth.

huh? He is ok believing that atheists seeded life on earth but has a problem believing a God could have seeded life on earth? What is the difference? Just the words used to describe those who first seeded life on earth?

However , to say that the universe was designed because of this or that requires that you at least attempt to show what a non-designed universe would look like.

Senseless really. The idea that somehow we live in a non-designed universe is a belief held only by those who have basically switched off their ability to think. Has he taken a look at the human brain and how complex it is? Somehow he claims that just appeared by magic?

There has to be comparison between a god-designed universe and a possibly non god-designed universe.

Well perhaps plaetton should start by showing us what he thinks a god-designed universe would look like? Like liekiller here, they are basically unable to argue the atheist viewpoint... probably because they really have no viewpoint other than the regurgitated nonsense they read off other websites. They are more comfortable spending all day debating religion... from folks who regale us that its all myth of course.

Like I said- they are good at being anti-religious but at science, they flounder!

AllNaijaBlogger:


Like I said- they are good at being anti-religious but at science, they flounder!

Lol!! Your problem is that you are actually convinced that "creation science" or "intelligent design" is science. Well it isn't. It does not use any scientific method and does not adhere to scientific standards and is therefore not science. This is also why you will never find it in any reputable biology journal (no it's NOT due to discrimination).
I have made the mistake before to waste days days discussing science with creationists. It truly is a waste of time and i am not doing it ever again.
You can go on and on trying to ridicule my scientific credentials (which you can't even evaluate because i have refused to waste my time discussing any science with you guys). It doesn't matter to me, and it certainly doesn't disprove any science. By the way... Since you are so busy doubting my qualification... I asked you guys a dozen times to show us just one - ONE - peer reviewed original article in a reputable biology journal that supports your ideas. The only answer to this were the usual insults. That says it all, eh?

Liekiller:


Lol!! Your problem is that you are actually convinced that "creation science" or "intelligent design" is science. Well it isn't. It does not use any scientific method and does not adhere to scientific standards and is therefore not science. This is also why you will never find it in any reputable biology journal (no it's NOT due to discrimination).

that is mindlessly false. no serious christian even pretends that the book of genesis is science. we know for a fact that the christian faith is what it is... a faith. What is befuddling is that atheists like you who ridicule blind faith are no better considering your own "faith" in pseudo-science is just as blind.

Liekiller:

I have made the mistake before to waste days days discussing science with creationists. It truly is a waste of time and i am not doing it ever again.

We have read this very same pitiful excuse for the last 5 years. It is the same nonsense we read when atheists are asked to back up their claims with actual facts. This thread has gone on 6 pages or so and you have religiously followed it all along... you are fine "wasting your time" debating religion but won't "waste your time" providing the proof to back up your "science". Please spare us the miserable hypocrisy.

Liekiller:

You can go on and on trying to ridicule my scientific credentials (which you can't even evaluate because i have refused to waste my time discussing any science with you guys). It doesn't matter to me, and it certainly doesn't disprove any science. By the way... Since you are so busy doubting my qualification... I asked you guys a dozen times to show us just one - ONE - peer reviewed original article in a reputable biology journal that supports your ideas. The only answer to this were the usual insults. That says it all, eh?

which is funny considering i've been asking the exact same question since page 2 only to be met with stony silence and insults. Funny how you find it a waste of your time to provide peer-reviewed articles to support your own idea but sit on your high horse asking others to provide articles to support theirs. We asked first... how about you show us first.

Genuine scientists have no problem discussing the science and providing proof that they are indeed knowledgeable in the field they spout. It is the fake ones who waffle on about "time wasting" as an excuse. I've been calling for a science-only thread since, you basically dismiss it as a "waste of your time"... funny.

davidylan:


that is mindlessly false. no serious christian even pretends that the book of genesis is science. we know for a fact that the christian faith is what it is... a faith. What is befuddling is that atheists like you who ridicule blind faith are no better considering your own "faith" in pseudo-science is just as blind.



We have read this very same pitiful excuse for the last 5 years. It is the same nonsense we read when atheists are asked to back up their claims with actual facts. This thread has gone on 6 pages or so and you have religiously followed it all along... you are fine "wasting your time" debating religion but won't "waste your time" providing the proof to back up your "science". Please spare us the miserable hypocrisy.



which is funny considering i've been asking the exact same question since page 2 only to be met with stony silence and insults. Funny how you find it a waste of your time to provide peer-reviewed articles to support your own idea but sit on your high horse asking others to provide articles to support theirs. We asked first... how about you show us first.

Genuine scientists have no problem discussing the science and providing proof that they are indeed knowledgeable in the field they spout. It is the fake ones who waffle on about "time wasting" as an excuse. I've been calling for a science-only thread since, you basically dismiss it as a "waste of your time"... funny.

First of all, I didn't say that you claim that the book of genesis is science. I referred to the pseudoscience of "intelligent design" which is by no means the same as the book of genesis. Secondly, you didn't ask me for peer-reviewed articles. You asked me to re-type and discuss published research, which I won't. I don't owe you any proof that I am "knowledgeable". I repeat again that this research is all published. Whoever wants to see it can look it up. And if you find any of it to be wrong you are free to conduct your own research and publish it in scientific journals. I also repeat again that it disproves absolutely NOTHING to accuse me of being a fake scientist. You would have to disprove 150 years of research in order to do that. Since you apparently can - why don't you You are also free to open a science thread and present your "evidence" if that's so important to you - why don't you?

davidylan:

this is actually an illogical argument... a red herring meant to detract from the fact that most who whine about science actually know very little about it. We can prove oxygen exists empirically... where is the empirical proof that macro evolution is true? That is the question and constantly avoiding it in favor of juvenile outbursts such as yours basically exposes the intellectual bankruptcy of your likes.

first of all, im a big fan of science and not a scientist.
im pretty sure if they tell someone like you 400years ago that you breathe in oxygen and that's why you live, you will probably shout witchcraft and burn whoever tell you the nonsense in front of the pope.

till today, some of your fellow theists don't believe gravity exists. they will ask if you have been to space to know that one stupid gravity exist..that god is the one holding the moon from falling down... that i read about stupid gravity on some scientific blog and stupid journal... same crappy excuse you are giving to me now...
if you want to se macro evolution, challenge those that make the claim... go to laboratories. im not here to lecture you about evolution cos in your locked mind. evolution is fake. god is ultimate.

lol again i see the retort to "thinking outside the box"... the truth is that you aren't thinking outside the box either. Virtually all of your "science" is basically copied from what atheists websites feed you. I mean case in point... the very first post on this thread is basically a shameless copy/paste from an anti-religious website. At least some like to think inside the box, you don't seem capable of any original thought whatsoever.

now, i will leave the rants with this meme...
enjoy your ignorance and have fun with it.

Liekiller:


First of all, I didn't say that you claim that the book of genesis is science. I referred to the pseudoscience of "intelligent design" which is by no means the same as the book of genesis.

Another mindless lie. No one has called intelligent design a science... it is simply faith in a divine creator... at least creationists are willing to acknowledge the truth no matter how unpalatable.

Liekiller:

Secondly, you didn't ask me for peer-reviewed articles. You asked me to re-type and discuss published research, which I won't. I don't owe you any proof that I am "knowledgeable".

the above is ridiculous musical chairs. you dont need to discuss published research, simply posting links to published research is good enough... and you have so far failed to do that in 7 pages...

It is true that you dont owe us proof of anything... just wonder why you're here howling for proof that religion is true. Cant have it both ways dear.

Liekiller:

I repeat again that this research is all published. Whoever wants to see it can look it up.

that is the same excuses others like you give when they cannot provide the facts to support their claims. Cant post links to science, but can sure waste her time ferreting the web for anti-religious dribble.

Liekiller:

And if you find any of it to be wrong you are free to conduct your own research and publish it in scientific journals. I also repeat again that it disproves absolutely NOTHING to accuse me of being a fake scientist. You would have to disprove 150 years of research in order to do that. Since you apparently can - why don't you You are also free to open a science thread and present your "evidence" if that's so important to you - why don't you?

I have over 20 published research papers on US pubmed so spare us the "publish your own" nonsense. You sound like ooman, plaetton and co. The same useless excuses rather than showing us the science. I dont need to disprove 150 years of research... the research to support macro evolution just does not exist... i challenge you to provide publications to support that it does. You're the one who came here lecturing us on how science has made religion obsolete... we ask you to go ahead and show us and you turn around to ask us to disprove your claims? Laughable cowardice.

ribbit:
first of all, im a big fan of science and not a scientist.

there really is no point debating you. Unlike you, i am actually a molecular biologist with over 5 years direct bench research experience with genetic manipulation so please come back when you have learnt basic genetics then we can discuss.

davidylan:

i am actually a molecular biologist with over 5 years direct bench research experience with genetic manipulation.

So are you a degree (Bsc) holder in this field?. This must have squeezed your pocket during studies.

This program will cost you between 40k-50k in masters dg in the US, depends on school of-course with great annual salary of between 35k-100k, isnt that wonderful

Empiree:
So are you a degree (Bsc) holder in this field?. This must have squeezed your pocket during studies.

This program will cost you between 40k-50k in masters dg in the US, depends on school of-course with great annual salary of between 35k-100k, isnt that wonderful

Not sure what the point is? I actually passed the bachelors stage over 10 years ago and i went to grad school (all 5 years of it) on a US government fellowship. What was your point exactly? By the way, $35k is not a "great" annual salary... that is a poverty wage.

davidylan:


Not sure what the point is? I actually passed the bachelors stage over 10 years ago and i went to grad school (all 5 years of it) on a US government fellowship. What was your point exactly? By the way, $35k is not a "great" annual salary... that is a poverty wage.

Just above minimum wage

davidylan:


Not sure what the point is? I actually passed the bachelors stage over 10 years ago and i went to grad school (all 5 years of it) on a US government fellowship. What was your point exactly? By the way, $35k is not a "great" annual salary... that is a poverty wage.

Lol, Congratulations!

true2god:
@ Empiree, can you explain how and when Islam abolished slavery using the quran. I don't want us to dabble into hadith because I will give you a lot of hadith that you wont like to read, so that you dont tell me it is not authentic.

AllNaijaBlogger:

I almost believed you until I noticed that you hardly quoted the Quran. Now, I haven't read the Quran or Hadith and so, I have to take your word on it. Remember that Ifeann and co, have quoted from the same hadith which you and others claim to be unreliable.

This is just my opinion. You almost convinced me.

"Contrary to your claim, Islam was the first religion to address slavery as a social problem. Since slavery was deeply entrenched in the society, it was not possible to abolish it at once but Islam put strategies in place for its gradual erosion, just like it treated other social problems. With respect to granting slave owners permission to have relations with slaves, this allowed for slaves to gain their freedom by getting pregnant for their masters, according to the law created to protect slaves and gradually destroy slavery. Children that were born under this circumstance automatically became free along with their mothers and they enjoyed the same right as other children, unlike in the Jewish tradition where children of slave women were treated differently from children of free women. In reality, therefore, the permission granted for having relations with slave women was one among the many unique steps taken by Islam in practically eradicating slavery."


Quran 2:177 "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him (Allah), for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves;...."

Quran 24:33 "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),"

Quran 90: 8-13
Have We not made for him two eyes?
And a tongue and two lips?
And have shown him the two ways?
But he has not broken through the difficult pass.
And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?
It is the freeing of a slave

Below is full chapter of Quran partially talks about freeing slaves, being kind to orphans and feed misers. Feed your eyes below: It is called Sura (chapter Balad) verses 1-20. Balad means city.


1 I do call to witness this City;-

2 And thou art a freeman of this City;-

3 And (the mystic ties of) parent and child;-

4 Verily We have created man into toil and struggle.

5 Thinketh he, that none hath power over him?

6 He may say (boastfully); Wealth have I squandered in abundance!

7 Thinketh he that none beholdeth him?

8 Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?-

9 And a tongue, and a pair of lips?-

10 And shown him the two highways?

11 But he hath made no haste on the path that is steep.

12 And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-

13 (It is) freeing the bondman;

14 Or the giving of food in a day of privation

15 To the orphan with claims of relationship,

16 Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.

17 Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.

18 Such are the Companions of the Right Hand.

19 But those who reject Our Signs, they are the (unhappy) Companions of the Left Hand.

20 On them will be Fire vaulted over (all round).

There are other verses spread out in the Quran like i previously told you.

Empiree:



"Contrary to your claim, Islam was the first religion to address slavery as a social problem. Since slavery was deeply entrenched in the society, it was not possible to abolish it at once but Islam put strategies in place for its gradual erosion, just like it treated other social problems. With respect to granting slave owners permission to have relations with slaves, this allowed for slaves to gain their freedom by getting pregnant for their masters, according to the law created to protect slaves and gradually destroy slavery. Children that were born under this circumstance automatically became free along with their mothers and they enjoyed the same right as other children, unlike in the Jewish tradition where children of slave women were treated differently from children of free women. In reality, therefore, the permission granted for having relations with slave women was one among the many unique steps taken by Islam in practically eradicating slavery."


Quran 2:177 "It is not righteousness that ye turn your faces Towards East or West; but it is righteousness to believe in God and the Last Day, and the Angels, and the Book, and the Messengers; to spend of your substance, out of love for Him (Allah), for your kin, for orphans, for the needy, for the wayfarer, for those who ask, and for the ransom of slaves;...."

Quran 24:33 "Let those who find not the wherewithal for marriage keep themselves chaste, until God gives them means out of His grace. And if any of your slaves ask for a deed in writing (to enable them to earn their freedom for a certain sum), give them such a deed if ye know any good in them: yea, give them something yourselves out of the means which God has given to you. But force not your maids to prostitution when they desire chastity, in order that ye may make a gain in the goods of this life. But if anyone compels them, yet, after such compulsion, is God, Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful (to them),"

Quran 90: 8-13
Have We not made for him two eyes?
And a tongue and two lips?
And have shown him the two ways?
But he has not broken through the difficult pass.
And what can make you know what is [breaking through] the difficult pass?
It is the freeing of a slave

Below is full chapter of Quran partially talks about freeing slaves, being kind to orphans and feed misers. Feed your eyes below: It is called Sura (chapter Balad) verses 1-20. Balad means city.


1 I do call to witness this City;-

2 And thou art a freeman of this City;-

3 And (the mystic ties of) parent and child;-

4 Verily We have created man into toil and struggle.

5 Thinketh he, that none hath power over him?

6 He may say (boastfully); Wealth have I squandered in abundance!

7 Thinketh he that none beholdeth him?

8 Have We not made for him a pair of eyes?-

9 And a tongue, and a pair of lips?-

10 And shown him the two highways?

11 But he hath made no haste on the path that is steep.

12 And what will explain to thee the path that is steep?-

13 (It is) freeing the bondman;

14 Or the giving of food in a day of privation

15 To the orphan with claims of relationship,

16 Or to the indigent (down) in the dust.

17 Then will he be of those who believe, and enjoin patience, (constancy, and self-restraint), and enjoin deeds of kindness and compassion.

18 Such are the Companions of the Right Hand.

19 But those who reject Our Signs, they are the (unhappy) Companions of the Left Hand.

20 On them will be Fire vaulted over (all round).

There are other verses spread out in the Quran like i previously told you.

www.nairaland.com/attachments/2093838_lies_jpeg5e1cde8fb6098c71e04bbae34144c42d



Your first sentence is a lie. Even the bible tackles the issue of slavery both for and against it. Islam did not bring anything new. Also consider that some societies never even had slavery throughout their history.

Another lie is that sleeping with slaves and having children with them grants them freedom. Only marriage, ransom or a release from a master frees a slave. An unmarried female slave is still a slave and also children of unfreed slaves are slaves themselves. I went to research more on slavery and Sharia law/Islam. Even, so what about male slaves? You know that most of them couldn't marry Arab women, right?


I told you to stop trying to preach with deception.

1. Drying the sources out
2. Widening the avenues of emancipation
3. Enjoining good treatment

I shall expatiate on these three processes as time permits


CONTINUED FROM PAGE 4

1. Drying the sources out

This means that Islam started with blocking most of the means that used to pour new victims into the river of slavery. Only two sources were left; namely, prisoners of legitimate wars and the progeny of slave parents. Even the POWs were given the opportunity to restore their freedom through either a gracious offer of freedom for them or a ransom paid as explained in the following Qur’anic verse:

{Thus whenever you (believers) face (in battle) those who disbelieve, strike their necks (a lethal blow), until, when you have thoroughly pacified them, you shall tie fast their bonds. Thereafter, let there be either a gracious offer of freedom for them or a ransom paid.} (Muhammad 47:4)

Thereupon, when the war is over, the POWs are either to be graciously emancipated or exchanged for Muslim captives.

Remarkably, Islam kept this last source as a way of mutual or reciprocal treatment with the other. This means that, if the other nations used not to enslave the Muslim POWs, Muslims would have done the same with non-Muslim captives and thus putting an end to the slavery system for good. This would have left the block of already existing slaves that could be dissolved through emancipation by means of widening the mouth of the river of slavery.

2. Widening the avenues of emancipation

While Islam tightened the sources of slavery, it widened its drains or outlets. In so doing, it activated its noble values and social justice system through endearing to Muslims the act of emancipating slaves voluntarily. It dictated that the emancipation of each member of the slave’s body is a reason for saving a similar member of the master’s body from Hell-fire.

In the same vein, Islam considered the deliverance of slaves and rescuing them from bondage as an expiation or penance for sins and offenses. The Qur’an states what means,

{Thus, whoever kills a believer by mistake, then their atonement shall be the freeing of a believing human being from bondage...} (An-Nisa’ 4:93)

^

AllNaijaBlogger:
Are you saying that people freed slaves in Islam because of heavenly reward and not because slavery itself is wrong? i just want to understand you.
You can also please lead me to the Quranic verse abolishing slavery. Plesse, this is interesting. Teach me.

^Imam An-Nasafi (d. AH 710) commented on this verse as saying,

“Verily, as the killer forced a believing soul to leave the troop of the living human beings, it becomes incumbent upon him to help another soul to enter the realm of the freedom. This is due to the fact that rescuing a slave from bondage is similar to reviving him…”[5]

Moreover, Islam empowered the state and the public system as to play a role in the process of emancipating slaves through dictating that freeing slaves is one of the eight ways prescribed for spending the Zakah.

Thus, Islam made the rescuing of slaves part of Zakah which is one of the five pillars of Islam:

{Indeed, prescribed charitable offerings are only to be given to the poor and the indigent, and to those who work on administering it, and to those whose hearts are to be reconciled, and to free those in bondage, and to the debt-ridden, and for the cause of God, and to the wayfarer. This is an obligation from God.} (At-Tawbah 9:60)

According to Islam, freedom of all people is the original state while bondage is the exception that needs verification. Anyone whose condition is unknown is to be considered free unless there is a solid proof that he is otherwise. Anyone who claims that another is a slave should prove his allegations through presenting irrefutable evidence.

In addition, Islam treated the slaves and the free equally in terms of all religious rights and in most of the civil rights. It also created a desire in Muslims for helping the slaves who want to get themselves rid of slavery through fulfilling a deed of emancipation. A slave in such a case is called a mukatab which stands for, a slave, male or female, who binds himself (or herself) to pay a certain equivalent for his (or her) freedom:

{…Moreover, if those whom your hands rightfully possess desire a deed of emancipation, then write it for them, if you come to know goodness in them. Moreover, give them of the wealth of God that He has given you.} (An-Nur 24:33)

@ AllNaijaBlogger, can you now sincerely deduce proper definition of "right hand possess" that your girl friend, Ifean abuses all the time?.

3. Enjoining good treatment

There is no legislation or system that has ever treated the slaves in a way that maintains and preserves their human dignity as Islam did. Islam recognized the slave’s humanity and his right to dignity and life. Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an,

{O humankind! Indeed, We have created all of you from a single male and female. Moreover, We have made you peoples and tribes, so that you may come to know one another. And, indeed, the noblest of you, in the sight of God, is the most God-fearing of you. Indeed, God is all-knowing, all-aware.} (Al-Hujurat 49:13)

The sole criterion thus is nothing but piety and righteous deeds and not the esprit de corps or tribalism or the like.

The Prophetic Sunnah confirms that Islam has established the principles of brotherhood between the slaves and the masters. The Prophet (peace be upon him) is reported to have said,

“Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.” (Al-Bukhari)

The Islamic way for treating slaves followed unprecedented humane commandments and precepts as well as practical steps that are regarded as a source of pride to Muslims. To cite some, let us recall a Prophetic hadith that shows how one should call a slave or ask him to do something.

Abu Hurairah reported Allah’s Messenger (Peace be upon him) as saying:

“None of you should say: ‘Supply drink to your lord, feed your lord, help your lord in performing ablution,’ and none of you should say: ‘My Lord.’ He should say: ‘My chief, my patron;’ and none of you should say: ‘My bondman, my slave-girl,’ but simply say: ‘My boy, my girl, my servant.’” (Muslim)

In Nigeria democracy lawyers are slaves to judges. You know what I meant don't you ?

While slavery previously constituted one of the biggest sources of the master’s richness, Islam turned it – through applying the above system of values which regarded the master and the slave as equal human beings – into a financial burden for the master. The master is required to feed the slave of what he eats and dress him of what he wears and not to ask him to do things beyond his power. Moreover, the master is even required to use euphemistic terms such as my boy, my girl or my servant instead of bondman and slave-girl respectively to safeguard the dignity of the slave.

Amazingly, Islam has gone far beyond the mere emancipation of slaves, as it did not leave them astray in the maze of the new world of freedom without arming them with the necessary power, team spirit or affiliation. Rather, it prescribed integrating them into the tribes and clans in which they previously lived as slaves. In so doing, Islam empowered them with the dignity, honor, rank and power of those tribes and clans through al-Walaa’ (allegiance).

But, why did Islam adopt gradual approach in prohibiting slavery?

Islam did not suddenly prohibit slavery for a number of reasons such as the reciprocal or mutual treatment with the other as is explained above.

Another reason is that modern history attests to the fact that enslavement has been regenerated in many different forms. Consequently, the most effective remedy for enslavement is to treat it whenever and wherever it reemerges in the same way as Islam gradually did.

Here, an important question arises: Did the decision to stop slavery in the modern age really abolish it?

It is true that the French Revolution (1789-1799) cancelled slavery in Europe and President Lincoln did the same in the USA just as the whole world have agreed to do this. However, is not the white slaves traffic a lucrative trade that is widespread today all over the world, especially in the USA and Europe?

The size of slave trade amounts to tens of billions of dollars annually as women and children are exploited in indecent acts, forced labor, and drugs trafficking and the like in direct contradiction to the international treaties and agreements as has been shown above. Whoever wants to learn about the size of such inhumane trade can be referred to any of the following reliable sources:

*Anti-Slavery International,
*United Nations Office on Drugs and Crime (UNODC),
*Amnesty International (AI),
*UN Children’s Fund (UNICEF), and
*International Labour Office (ILO).

A final word

It has now become apparent that graduation is a divine law that should be adopted in administering people’s affairs when a change is to be effected in their economic or social life. Real change cannot be effected through a sudden decision to be made by a king or a president or an Assembly Council or a Parliament or any form of leadership, etc. Rather, this can be effected only through graduation, that is, to prepare the people intellectually, psychologically, morally and socially to accept the intended change.

That was the very approach adopted by the [size=15pt]Ever-Glorious Qur’an and Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings be upon him) to change the pre-Islamic life of ignorance into an Islamic life.[/size] Prophet Muhammad spent 13 years in Makkah where his mission was to educate a believing generation that later on could shoulder the responsibility of making da`wah. Therefore, the Makkan period was a period of education and formation rather than legislation and codification.

Sources:
[size=5pt][1] Zaqzuq, M. Hamdi (Ed.). Haqa’iq al-Islam fi Muwajahat al-Mushakikkin [Facts of Islam vs. the Doubters’ Distortions]. Supreme Council for Islamic Affairs, Egypt, 2006.

[2] www.moqatel.com

[2] The American Heritage Dictionary.

[3]Excerpted from The American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition 1992 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Electronic version.

[4] Dr. Amir Abdullah, www.hurras.org

[5] An-Nasafi, Abdullah ibn Ahmed. Tafsir An-Nasafi. Verified by Magdi Mansur. Al-Maktabah Al-Tawfikiyyah, Egypt. Vol. 1-2, P. 282.

[6] Al-Khudrawi, Deeb. Dictionary of Islamic Terms: Arabic-English, English-Arabic. Al-Yamamah for Printing and Publishing, Damascus – Beirut, Darussalam, Riyadh, Houston, Lahore, 2004. [/size]

Empiree Is Literally Done With You On This Slavery Topic unless you want annular argument

AllNaijaBlogger:

[size=5pt]Your first sentence is a lie. Even the bible tackles the issue of slavery both for and against it. Islam did not bring anything new. Also consider that some societies never even had slavery throughout their history.

Another lie is that sleeping with slaves and having children with them grants them freedom. Only marriage, ransom or a release from a master frees a slave. An unmarried female slave is still a slave and also children of unfreed slaves are slaves themselves. I went to research more on slavery and Sharia law/Islam. Even, so what about male slaves? You know that most of them couldn't marry Arab women, right?


I told you to stop trying to preach with deception.[/size]

You don't make any sense at all. If your Bible abolished slavery, why did slavery largely exist before prophet muhammad and why New Testament silent on slavery?. Why isn't anything recorded by narrators of NT like Paul, Mathews ,Mark .Luke and John?. Slavery existed in theirs but why did they skip it?

You can't refute me but called me liar. That's not enough. Therefore, your case is dismissed.

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Empiree:
You don't make any sense at all. If your Bible abolished slavery, why did slavery largely existed before prophet muhammad and why New Testament silent on slavery?. Why isn't anything recorded by narrators of NT like Paul, Mathews ,Mark .Luke and John?. Slavery existed in theirs but why did they skip it?

You can't refute me but top call me liar. Therefore, your case is dismissed.

I never said that the bible abolished slavery. What I said was that the bible has both pro and anti slavery verses.

The New Testament is not silent on slavery. It even has one of the most powerful verses used against slavery/racism. I even quote the verse for you in a previous comment

Galatians 3:28 ►
New International Version
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."



And you wonder why I call you a liar. My friend, you are a known decepticon for Islam. We know your tactics.

AllNaijaBlogger:

[size=20pt]I never said that the bible abolished slavery. What I said was that the bible has both pro and anti slavery verses.[/size]
[s]And you wonder why I call you a liar. My friend, you are a known decepticon for Islam. We know your tactics.[/s]

#yeyeman

AllNaijaBlogger: Galatians 3:28 ►
New International Version
"There is neither Jew nor Gentile, neither slave nor free, nor is there male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus."

Even with above verse you quoted above, it shows that it was not in the best interest of Christian leaders during NewTestament era to abolish slavery. So so clear from the Bible verse. But Qur'an has NO pro slavery verses. Islam struggled to eliminate your mess you created before Muhammad (peace be upon him)

Empiree:




1. Drying the sources out
2. Widening the avenues of emancipation
3. Enjoining good treatment

I shall expatiate on these three processes as time permits



1. Drying the sources out

This means that Islam started with blocking most of the means that used to pour new victims into the river of slavery. Only two sources were left; namely, prisoners of legitimate wars and the progeny of slave parents. Even the POWs were given the opportunity to restore their freedom through either a gracious offer of freedom for them or a ransom paid as explained in the following Qur’anic verse:


2. Widening the avenues of emancipation

While Islam tightened the sources of slavery, it widened its drains or outlets. In so doing, it activated its noble values and social justice system through endearing to Muslims the act of emancipating slaves voluntarily. It dictated that the emancipation of each member of the slave’s body is a reason for saving a similar member of the master’s body from Hell-fire.

In the same vein, Islam considered the deliverance of slaves and rescuing them from bondage as an expiation or penance for sins and offenses. The Qur’an states what means,


3. Enjoining good treatment

There is no legislation or system that has ever treated the slaves in a way that maintains and preserves their human dignity as Islam did. Islam recognized the slave’s humanity and his right to dignity and life. Allah Almighty says in the Qur’an,

I just have to laugh at all these lies you have copied and pasted. Arab slavery bloomed hundreds of years after the prophet died- From 7th century to 15th century.

Do you know how many slaves alone died crossing the deserts from Sub-saharan Africa into the middle east?


There is no such thing as "ethical slavery". You are trying to make the case that slavery in your religion is understandable. We might as well have "peaceful murders" or "righteous molestation"

Empiree:
#yeyeman


Even with above verse you quoted, is shows that it was not in the best interest of Christian leaders during NT era to abolish slavery. So so clear from the verse. But Qur'an has NO pro slavery verses. Islam struggles to eliminate your mess you created before Muhammad (peace be upon him)

Instructions on having sex with female slaves is what? Anti-slavery?

AllNaijaBlogger:



Instructions on having sex with female slaves is what? Anti-slavery?

Lol, i knew you would say that. That's my next task cus i know you don't understand

davidylan:


there really is no point debating you. Unlike you, i am actually a molecular biologist with over 5 years direct bench research experience with genetic manipulation so please come back when you have learnt basic genetics then we can discuss.

he heheheh, Okay Mr molecular biologist, aka false science.
What is your 5 years research on again? How god used great magic to manipulate genetics?
Well, it's Internet, you can be whatever you wanna be.

Anyway, most atheist I know, even the ones on Nairaland mostly don't claim to be scientist but a fan of science..but you keep ranting as if every atheist is a scientist. I for one didnt even become atheist because of science I only picked interest in science along the way. And science makes more sense than fairy tales written by barbarians under iroko tree


Anyway, good luck man.

Empiree:
Lol, i knew you would say that. That's my next task cus i know you don't understand

Are you not tired of defending lies and the atrocities of the Islamic prophet?

Can the arabs apologize for enslaving the blacks without, directly or indirectly, indicting your prophet? Na wa for you ooo.

true2god:
Are you not tired of defending lies and the atrocities of the Islamic prophet?

Can the arabs apologize for enslaving the blacks without, directly or indirectly, indicting your prophet? Na wa for you ooo.

Go back and sink your head in the sand if you have no reasonable counterclaims. I know you will call me liar since that's your exist strategy.

ribbit:
he heheheh, Okay Mr molecular biologist, aka false science.
What is your 5 years research on again? How god used great magic to manipulate genetics?
Well, it's Internet, you can be whatever you wanna be.

Anyway, most atheist I know, even the ones on Nairaland mostly don't claim to be scientist but a fan of science..but you keep ranting as if every atheist is a scientist. I for one didnt even become atheist because of science I only picked interest in science along the way. And science makes more sense than fairly tales written by barbarians under iroko tree


Anyway, good luck man.

I'm not sure how science can make sense when you don't even understand the basic principles. Do you just like how science sounds or how spouting stuff makes you feel important? I'm beffudled as to how something can make sense without understanding it at all... That is the very definition of an oxymoron.

davidylan:


I'm not sure how science can make sense when you don't even understand the basic principles. Do you just like how science sounds or how spouting stuff makes you feel important? I'm beffudled as to how something can make sense without understanding it at all... That is the very definition of an oxymoron.

Seriously, what are you doing here? The OP says ten signs u are a fundamentalist christian... How in the world did you digress to discussing science? What has science got to do with the points the op raised?

Did you even notice that Christians and Muslims have taken over the thread with accusation? They just proved the op right and instead of thinking and reflecting on it you are here battling with science, yet you call yourself a scientist. What's ur point really? What do you want?

davidylan:


I'm not sure how science can make sense when you don't even understand the basic principles. Do you just like how science sounds or how spouting stuff makes you feel important? I'm beffudled as to how something can make sense without understanding it at all... That is the very definition of an oxymoron.

blehhh... May be you don't understand the definition of being a fan of something since most you theists only think one way like a walking dead..

You can't be a fan of something without understanding the basic thing about what you are fan of.

E.g, I'm a fan of music, I'm not a musician for I understand basic things about music. Get it now?
I'm a fan of Honda doesn't mean I work with Honda but I know pretty much and love Honda.
I'm a fan of science and I understand the basics but not a scientist. I'm not gonna indulge you in any discussion because going by your discussion alone on this thread, it shows that it would be a total waste of time. I know if i keep saying A you will be saying illogical B which most theist do anyway. So why waste my precious time with you.
I had to quote you initially so people won't really think you are that smart because of the way you are using sophistry to say nonsense. Again Goodluck.

ribbit:
blehhh... May be you don't understand the definition of being a fan of something since most you theists only think one way like a walking dead..

You can't be a fan of something without understanding the basic thing about what you are fan of.

E.g, I'm a fan of music, I'm not a musician for I understand basic thing about music. Get it now?
I'm a fan of Honda doesn't mean I work with Honda but I know pretty much and love Honda.
I'm a fan of science and I understand the basic but not a scientist. I'm not gonna indulge you in any discussion because if going by your discussion alone on this thread shows that it would be a total waste of time. I know if keep saying A you will be saying illogical B which most theist do anyway. So why waste my precious time with you.
I had to quote you initially so people won't really think you are that smart because of the way you are using sophistry to say nonsense. Again Goodluck.

Ya... He has a way of coming out all confident likeba smart guy, but if you take your time to read, he actually enjoys going round and round without making much sense. He just sticks to his assumptions and it becomes his reality.

[quote author=davidylan post=31023837]

Another mindless lie. No one has called intelligent design a science... it is simply faith in a divine creator... at least creationists are willing to acknowledge the truth no matter how unpalatable.

It's funny how your only contribution is always to call everybody liars, idiots, morons, while YOU are the one lying. So "no one has called intelligent design a science"? Please...! Like... "no one" except every single proponent of it?? They even created their own "scientific" and "peer-reviewed" journals to pretend it's science after they were unable to publish in established journals! http://www.discovery.org/id/peer-review/

It is true that you dont owe us proof of anything... just wonder why you're here howling for proof that religion is true. Cant have it both ways dear.

Not once did I "howl for proof that religion is true", it's another lie of yours. I did point out however that you don't seem to require any proof for that, while at the same time denying evidence for many other things that actually exists.

I have over 20 published research papers on US pubmed so spare us the "publish your own" nonsense. You sound like ooman, plaetton and co. The same useless excuses rather than showing us the science. I dont need to disprove 150 years of research... the research to support macro evolution just does not exist... i challenge you to provide publications to support that it does. You're the one who came here lecturing us on how science has made religion obsolete... we ask you to go ahead and show us and you turn around to ask us to disprove your claims? Laughable cowardice.

Good. Then you certainly know that a scientific theory can't be proved but only falsified. Evolution has not been falsified in spite of 150 years of research in palaentology, comparative anatomy, embryology, genetics, geology etc. However, this makes your statement yet another LIE. The evidence most certainly does exist, which is why evolution is now a "theory". As you certainly know, this means - in scientific terminology - that it is indeed backed up by abundant evidence and has not been falsified. Another LIE of yours is that I lectured anybody how "science made religion obsolete". While I certainly do find religion obsolete, science is not the reason for my opinion. Furthermore all this mendacious nonsense sheds serious doubt on your claims of being a biologist. You would most certainly be well aware of the evidence if you actually were a biologist!

In order to allow you to move on to the next topic of bitching, here are a few links, just a few thousand articles listed here, in only a minimal percentage of all journals we could be sniffing around in:


NATURE (278 references with keyword macroevolution)
http://www.nature.com/search/executeSearch?submit=go&sp-q-1=&sp-a=sp1001702d&sp-c=25&sp-x-1=ujournal&sp-sfvl-field=subject|ujournal&shunter=1424698399976&sp-q=macroevolution&sp-m=0&sp-p=all&sp-s=&sp-p-1=phrase&pag-end=1

SCIENCE (220 references with keyword macroevolution)
http://www.sciencemag.org/search?submit=yes&site_area=sciencejournals&journalcode=sci&journalcode=sigtrans&journalcode=scitransmed&y=0&FIRSTINDEX=0&fulltext=macroevolution&x=0

JOURNAL OF EVOLUTIONARY BIOLOGY (202 references with keyword macroevolution)
http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/advanced/search/results

Then, as a special treat for you, the self-proclaimed molecular biologist, lets have a look what's in a few renowned molecular biology journals:

GENETICS (69 references with keyword macroevolution)
http://www.genetics.org/search?fulltext=macroevolution&submit=yes&x=0&y=0

JOURNAL OF MOLECULAR BIOLOGY (119 references with keyword speciation, 6994 with keyword evolution, just for some variation....)
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleListURL&_method=list&_ArticleListID=-737803677&_sort=r&_st=13&view=c&md5=3c73e87167ecc3e71a381258795abfb7&searchtype=a
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=ArticleListURL&_method=list&_ArticleListID=-737805822&_sort=r&_st=13&view=c&md5=51bceaabddcfd0e31d387843c7d78389&searchtype=a


and so on, and so on... you'll notice that we haven't even gone into any specialized journals yet. So, as a conclusion, either you truly stink in your alleged field of research, or you are just full of shiiiiit.

P.S. why don't you just make your life easier by claiming that your god created evolution?

frank317:


Seriously, what are you doing here? The OP says ten signs u are a fundamentalist christian... How in the world did you digress to discussing science? What has science got to do with the points the op raised?

Did you even notice that Christians and Muslims have taken over the thread with accusation? [b]They just proved the op right and instead of thinking and reflecting on it you are here battling with science, yet you call yourself a scientist. [/b]What's ur point really? What do you want?

you gotta love the irony, right?