Before i talk abt Al banna

anengiyefa:


Extrenism:
Definition: a tendency or disposition to go to extremes or an instance of going to extremes, esp. in political matters: leftist extremism; the extremism of the Nazis. Any political theory favoring immoderate uncompromising policies

Extremist:
One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.
QED!

Good definition please could you now tell me what makes hamas an exremist organisation and what qualifies Israel not to be an extremist State.

Israel, while acting purely in self defence, is blessed with the good fortune of being able to use overwhelming force against her adversary. Israel does not advocate the destruction of any other state or or any other people. She acts only in defence of her right to exist!

On the other hand, the only reason why Hamas is employing violence against Isarel, is because of Hamas' deeply held uncompromising and intolerant (extremist) religious views; views that border on fanatism. It is this extremism that is their downfall, because such intolerance is no longer acceptable anywhere in the world. Read about Hamas and what they stand for. Read about their history and the public statements that their leaders make. And then come back and tell us that they are not extremist if you can! It is Hamas that is the extremist here!

Lagosboy:


NOTE : The person that wrote the piece abt Hassan Al Banna. Pls could you state your reference of him been a Nazi supporter?

@Lagosboy, you need to take a look at this as well. The information here on the website of the Assyrian International News Agency is extensive.

http://www.aina.org/news/2007070595517.htm

anengiyefa:

Israel, while acting purely in self defence, is blessed with the good fortune of being able to use overwhelming force against her adversary. Israel does not advocate the destruction of any other state or or any other people. She acts only in defence of her right to exist!

On the other hand, the only reason why Hamas is employing violence against Isarel, is because of Hamas' deeply held uncompromising and intolerant (extremist) religious views; views that border on fanatism. It is this extremism that is their downfall, because such intolerance is no longer acceptable anywhere in the world. Read about Hamas and what they stand for. Read about their history and the public statements that their leaders make. And then come back and tell us that they are not extremist if you can! It is Hamas that is the extremist here!

Israel actions PURELY self defence ? - Shelling of UN installations isn’t self defence is it?
Killing of babies isn’t self defence is it?
Laying of economic siege on a people isn’t self defence is it?
Occupation of a people’s territory is the mother of all aggression and not self defence.
Ashkelon on which they say rockets land has the ruins of Palestinian farmland and under the UN charter the houses there are considered settlements on disputed territory,

If you say Israel has a right to defend itself do you accept the Palestinians have a right to resist occupation?
Hamas is an ideological movement that believes Israel is an illegal state because it sits on Palestinian territories.
You talked abt Hamas having an intolerant view of others. Have you heard of its intolerant attitude towards the Palestinian Christians?
Hamas is intolerant to the state of Israel as long as it sits on their lands and that is justified.
Hamas is intolerant to the Terrorist state of Israel as long as it doesn’t recognise the right of millions of Palestinian refugees of 60 years to return to their homeland.
How does this make them extremist?

Is Israel tolerant of the Palestinian people? How come they did not respect their choice of leadership when they voted Hamas into power. Is their not the height of intolerance?

Why does hamas not have a right to want an Islamic state when Israel is a Jewish state officially.

Do you understand what Zionism means if you do you would not call Hamas an extremist organisation while Israel isn’t according to your definition. There arte thousands of jews that oppose the state of Israel and call Zionism an extremist and evil ideology.

The state of Israels map at 1948 compared to now higlights the robbery and stealing of lands of the Palestinians. No country takes land by force again except Israel.

Israel is not just an extremist state it is a Terrorist state. Otherwise you would not kill
1300 people 40% babies and women in 22 days while saying you are hitting hamas. You would not destroy 20000 homes and partially destroy 40000. You would not render about 200000 civilians homeless neither would you bomb their power stations and water supply. These are crimes against humanity.

@ Lagosboy: Let us put aside your illogical, emotional rant for a minute.

I thought you were going to try and convince us that Hassan al Banna was not a Nazi sympathiser and that Hamas was not spawned by the Muslim Brotherhood which also spawned Al Quaeda.

I thought you were going to try and convince us that Hamas is not fighting a Jhad, with its sole aim being to exterminate all Jews and establish a single Islamic state that includes the whole of the land that Israel currently occupies?

Why have you failed to address these most important points and taken a sharp left turn into emotional mumbo-jumbo about destroyed Palestinian property and 'stolen' lands? You emotional people make me want to puke sometimes.

@Anengiyefa

Why all the assumption and trying to steer an arguement that doesnt exist. The muslim brotherhood does exist and of course hamas is an ofshoot so whats the problem. the muslim brotherhood has people in the egyptian parliament so whats the fuss about. Does germany not have a party called the christian democratic union?

You talked about islamic state my question is is Israel not a jewish state with 30% population of arab muslims.

So what is wrong if hamas says they want an islamic state as well.

anengiyefa:

@ Lagosboy: Let us put aside your illogical, emotional rant for a minute.

Why have you failed to address these most important points and taken a sharp left turn into emotional mumbo-jumbo about destroyed Palestinian property and 'stolen' lands? You emotional people make me want to puke sometimes.

This statement of yours just shows how intelligent you are on this subject otherwise you would not trivialise the "stolen lands" and call it emotional rants. Any sane person knows the issue at stake is occupation. You cannot put aside occupation and focus on hamas. The palestinian struggle transcends hamas.

The bone of contention here is OCCUPATION and you call it emotional rants.

The killing of 1300 people would trigger emotions in any person with human milk. If not emotions why is Israel killing babies for the sake of protecting the illegal settlers of Ashekelon. If not for emotions why did Bush invade Afghanistan after 9/11. If not emotions why does europe thinks it owes the jews something back for the wrongs of d nazis.

Lets be real there is emotion in any war and what is wrong is emotions should not becloud sensible judgement.

anengiyefa:

@ Lagosboy: Let us put aside your illogical, emotional rant for a minute.

I thought you were going to try and convince us that Hassan al Banna was not a Nazi sympathiser and that Hamas was not spawned by the Muslim Brotherhood which also spawned Al Quaeda.

I thought you were going to try and convince us that Hamas is not fighting a Jhad, with its sole aim being to exterminate all Jews and establish a single Islamic state that includes the whole of the land that Israel currently occupies?

I thought I thoughh I though, Why thinking what is not, Assumtions and presumptions has no place here talk on what i have said.

Hamas is fighting a jihad - yes. jihad is the struggle against oppression so whats the fuss.

i raised issues to question your Israels "purely self defence" and rather than talk on it you call it emotional outburst.

Israel has always responded to aggression, small or great, with greater aggression. Engage Israel in war, it's win or be devastated. The tactic continues to prove effective, even if it's given the country a psychology of aggression.Hamas keeps engaging Israel in battles it can't win. People die in war. Innocent and guilty alike, they die. It's impossible to not have civilian casualties. That's the horror of it. That's why war is a very expensive way to settle international issues.Hamas and the entire palestinian people should have counted the cost and determined that they can afford it.

While Israel's strategy is obvious,the fact is those casualties are people,children included. There is such a thing as overkill. Even the country seems to realise it crossed a line. More Hamas soldiers should be the victims of the conflict, not needless thousands of civilians. It simply isn't justifiable.

It's unfortunate that Hamas imagines it can eradicate Israel. It submerges each generation in a history of injustice and visions of a glorious re-occupation of its lands. Every act of aggression from Israel feeds their sense of injury and persecution and their hatred of Israel. One hopes for a lasting truce. Children being killed, and for what? Enough.

bbc have our say:

Hezbollah General Secretary Hassan Nasrallah.
told a Lebanese TV audience last night that had he had known that the operation to take two Israeli soldiers would end as it did, then he not have taken that course of action. "If there was a one percent possibility," he said. "We would not have done that. We would not have done any capturing.

Hamas did not learn from that

as long as religion continues to blind them fighting would continue, let us give hamas 1 week and see if they wont lunch rockets into Isreal

and @lagosboy, rocket firing precedes the blockade by 6 years

while a lot of your post made sense, much of it was a shrill unrealistic rehash of the same double standard applied to jews only.

Mad_Max:

Engage Israel in war, it's win or be devastated.

Can you really blame them? should they lose they will be virtually wiped out.

Mad_Max:

While Israel's strategy is obvious,the fact is those casualties are people,children included. There is such a thing as overkill.

There is no such thing and if it exists at all it strangely seems to apply to Israel only. Why are the cries of "overkill" for Sudan and Rwanda? Was it overkill to carpet bomb Germany during WWII or drop nuclear weapons on Japan?

Mad_Max:

Even the country seems to realise it crossed a line.

Exactly what line?

Mad_Max:

More Hamas soldiers should be the victims of the conflict, not needless thousands of civilians. It simply isn't justifiable.

Was WWII also justifiable or do we bring out these bogus words for Israel only?

When HAMAS militants dress up as civilians, launch rockets from mosques, schools and markets what do you expect the jews to do? sit still because to retaliate is "unjustifiable"? I for one i'm glad the jews just ignored the hypocritical babble from the rest of the world. Sit enduring rockets from your neighbors for 8yrs then tell Israel its decision to protect its citizens are "unjustifiable".

Is it "justifiable" for HAMAS to send rockets to elementary schools?

Mad_Max:

Every act of aggression from Israel feeds their sense of injury and persecution and their hatred of Israel.

That, we know, is all a lie. They already hate Israel . . . they are indoctrinated to thru mosques and schools. they hated the jews in 1948 when there was no war, they hated them in 1953 and 1966 when there was no "occupation" . . . whether Israel retaliates or not the quran has told them they must hate Israel. All the other excuses are sanctimonious drivel.

anengiyefa:

Being overly emotional leads to the abrogation of common-sense and a loss of contact with reality and reason. Terrorists are often foiled because their passion and their actions are fuelled and propelled solely by emotion! Good judgement is invaluable and this often requires a calm disposition. Screaming murder from the rooftops usually serves no useful purpose other than to create a lot an unpleasant noise!

The actions taken against Germany by the Allies were not fuelled by emotion. Neither was the deliberate establishment of a Jewish homeland in Palestine. Nelson Mandela calmly ascended to the leadership of his country. And to return to your persistent reference to the ANC, the fundamental difference between the ANC and Hamas, is that the ANC is not a religious movement.

What has "being overly emotional" got to do with our discussion? Being overly "anything" is not helpful! What's with the plenty yarns?

The point remains that you can't remove emotions from human suffering. When survivors of the Holocaust talk about their experience in Nazi camps, the emotion is raw! Of course the Nazi perpetrators won't have much emotion about it.

I don't know where you're going with your "emotion" talk.

RichyBlacK:

What has "being overly emotional" got to do with our discussion? Being overly "anything" is not helpful! What's with the plenty yarns?

The point remains that you can't remove emotions from human suffering. When survivors of the Holocaust talk about their experience in Nazi camps, the emotion is raw! Of course the Nazi perpetrators won't have much emotion about it.

I don't know where you're going with your "emotion" talk.

Richyblack when the guy doesnt know what to say he resorts the good old tactic . "your just too emotional". anyone that highlights the suffering of the Palestinians on their on land is too emotional.
418 children died -- emotional talk
112 women got killed - emotional talk
110 Elderly men killed - emotional rant
12 medics slaughtered - overly emotional
4 Journalist slaughtered- emotional talk

Power statiions bombed
Water supply destroyed
Desease outbreak imminent
Sewage system broken

It is all emotional rubbish

I wonder if we would be human if the emotions in us never pricks our conscience.

Only a man without conscience would addreess the slaughtering of babies when highlighted as emotional talk.

Whoever Supports Israel needs to go for a brain scan.

NONSENSE!!!

When ever has War brought about anything good

Isreal has to realize that Hamas is not just a group of people, but a movement

Hamas will live to fight another day.