GabrielYulaw:


[b]I was surprised too when I saw his quote. 200K for an ATGM [/b]and against Boko Haram and ISWAP that lack the resources to launch a counter to missiles of any sort. Lol. Even old ATMG of the sort the Russians and other Eastern countries have in stock will do here. We don't need state-of-the-art ATGMs that cost more than an estate in Lekki
I also agree about the army needing to be strong in land theatre. It needs to acquire lots of short and long range rocket artillery, as well as long range convention artillery. This can replace air strikes when needed.

Yes! As the link showed Chinese analogs like the HJ-8 built in the late 80s are 50% less but the newer models like the -11 and -12 are only 20-30% less in cost. Due to the tech involved,guidance seeker,flight motor,cutting edge production processes etc,etc its not possible to go below a certain price point. See the Javelin diagram.

This Ukrainian buy shows the cost breakdown of roughly 200k$ a piece for the Jav:

WASHINGTON - Congressional and State Department officials on Tuesday preliminarily approved a [b]$39-million sale of shoulder-launched Javelin anti-tank missiles to Ukraine to help the country battle Russia-backed separatists.

First reported by Bloomberg News, the sale of 150 missiles and two additional launchers [/b]comes months after Ukraine requested the additional batch of Javelins earlier this year.

https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-prepares-39m-anti-tank-javelin-missiles-ukraine

My broz, Warthunder is a lecturer in this field, he knows much more than you wrote. He reviewed all spec details of MD-500, it wont defeat ISWAP. Army must be strong on its land. This year June, one Jihadist used ordinary 7.62mm PKM to shoot down a good French armed Gazelle helic, news on internet.

Infantry ATGM low calibre versions made in China Ukraine Pakistan cost only $20 a pop new build, $10k storage stock. Very cheap east side, not USA Javelin. I blame NA because they dont shop right, Little $50 m buys 100 ATGMs launchers (covers all 100 FOBs) with 2,000 missiles for NA, now does ISWAP, BHT have 2,000 Hilux gun trucks to fight such NA in new MTOE & TDA?

If I'm reading you correctly static bases each with cheap ATGMs and a sole launcher will defeat BH. Do you have a source for those bargain basement ATGMs?

kikuyu2:


Yes! As the link showed Chinese analogs like the HJ-8 built in the late 80s are 50% less but the newer models like the -11 and -12 are only 20-30% less in cost. Due to the tech involved,guidance seeker,flight motor,cutting edge production processes etc,etc its not possible to go below a certain price point. See the Javelin diagram.

This Ukrainian buy shows the cost breakdown of roughly 200k$ a piece for the Jav:
https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-prepares-39m-anti-tank-javelin-missiles-ukraine



If I'm reading you correctly static bases each with cheap ATGMs and a sole launcher will defeat BH. Do you have a source for those bargain basement ATGMs?

Not a sole launcher. Multiple launchers, like around 10 per base. Our biggest issue is the gun trucks the enemy uses. These are equipped with AA guns that do a lot of damage. Currently, the NA engages these gun trucks with gun trucks of their own and RPGs. This does not assure a hit. Even old ATGMs can engage a gun truck at ranges the guns in these gun trucks cannot hit anything.
And I do not advocate static bases. They must be gradually pushed forward till we hit the border. We can then secure the border by mining it so heavily that an ant cannot have sex without setting off a mine. We also need 24/7 surveillance of the borders, and this can be done by aircraft our by launching our own surveillance satellite. There are so many things we need, but there is no doubt that this war is fully winnable. But only if the right strategies and weapons are brought to bear.

BabaOwen:
Amid the prevailing insecurity in the country, the military and the police would spend a whopping 91 per cent of their budgets on recurrent expenditure, comprising overhead and personnel costs, while the remaining nine per cent would go to their capital expenditure, estimates in the 2020 Appropriation Bill have shown.

Saturday PUNCH’s analysis of the bill revealed further that the chunk of the recurrent expenditure goes into personnel cost, comprising salaries, wages, allowances and social contributions, while a meagre amount goes into capital expenditure, forcing some of the security agencies to make part payments for security items they would have used to fight insecurity.

President Muhammadu Buhari had on Tuesday, October 8, presented the N10.33tn, comprising N4.88tn recurrent expenditure and N2.14tn capital expenditure, Appropriation Bill to a joint session of the National Assembly.

The President noted that the budget estimate was designed to be one of fiscal consolidation to strengthen the macroeconomic environment, invest in critical infrastructure, human capital development and enabling institutions.

But analysis of the Appropriation Bill revealed that the Ministry of Defence, comprising different operational units like the Army, Navy, Air Force, Defence Headquarters, Nigerian Defence Academy, Defence Intelligence Agency and 11 other units got a whopping N878,458,607,427 total allocation, the second highest allocation.

Of the total allocation, however, the recurrent expenditure stood at N778,589,343,660, representing 88.63 per cent while the capital expenditure is N99,869,263,767, representing 11.37 per cent.

In the recurrent expenditure, however, the total personnel cost, comprising salaries, wages, allowances and others, is put at N722,383,830,531bn, while the overhead cost for travels, transport, training, materials and services, is N56,205,513,129.

The remaining N99bn capital expenditure would, therefore, be used for the purchase of defence equipment, sea boats, rehabilitation of barracks across the six geo-political zones, procurement of ammunition, purchase of operational vehicles, among other things needed to fight insecurity and defend the Nigerian territory.

For example, the Nigerian Army, which got the highest allocation under the Defence Ministry, would get a total of N438.23bn.

While a whopping N424.03bn of the sum goes to recurrent expenditure, comprising N408.40bn for personnel cost (salaries, allowances, wages, etc), and N15.63bn for overhead cost, a meagre N14.20bn was budgeted for capital expenditure.

According to the breakdown in the estimate, the N14bn would be used for the purchase of arms, ammunition, armoured vehicles, spare parts, kitting general, construction of office and residential buildings (barracks) and renovation of destroyed Kur Mohammed Barracks, Bama, among other projects.

Similarly, for the Nigerian Air Force, which got the second highest share in the ministry, its total allocation was N137.87bn.

Out of this, N109.51bn was for recurrent expenditure, comprising N8.85bn overhead cost and a whopping N100.66bn personnel cost (for salaries, wages, allowances, etc), while a paltry N28.36bn is budgeted for capital expenditure.

The N28bn is expected to be used for the purchase of defence equipment, procurement of various small arms and ammunition, purchase of various aircraft and their spares, support equipment and their spares, part payment for procurement of 3 x jf – 17 thunder aircraft, part payment for periodic depot maintenance of 4 x f – 7ni aircraft, among others.

For the Nigerian Navy, which got the third highest share of the ministry’s allocation, the total allocation was N131.69bn, out of which N114.50bn was allocated for recurrent expenditure, comprising N106.76bn personnel cost (salaries, wages, allowances, etc) and N7.74bn overhead cost.

On the other hand, N17.19bn was budgeted for capital expenditure, specifically for the procurement of helicopters, landing ship tank, hydro survey ship, 8 x 17m inshore patrol craft, construction of barracks and the development of Naval War College, among others.

The tilted estimate is the same for many other operation units, like DIA, under the Defence Ministry.

Police and military budgets alike

Meanwhile, for the Federal Ministry of Police Affairs, comprising police formations and commands, the ministry itself and the Nigeria Police Academy, Wudil, Kano, the total allocation is N409,142,271,823.

Of this figure, the capital expenditure is a mere N13,309,986,864, representing a paltry 3.25 per cent, while the total recurrent expenditure is N395,832,284,959, representing a huge 96.75 per cent of the allocation.

Out of the recurrent expenditure, however, the total overhead was N11,088,223,253 while the total personnel cost (salaries, wages, allowances and social contributions) took a whopping N384,744,061,706.

The paltry N13bn capital expenditure, according to the estimate, was for the purchase of security equipment (N2.88bn), motor vehicles, air navigational equipment (N2.19bn), trucks, industrial equipment (N64.82bn), purchase and acquisition of land, computer software acquisition, construction and provision of hospitals, police stations and barracks, while the rehabilitation and repair of police stations and barracks would gulp (N53.62), among other projects.

Thus, on average, the military and police would spend 91 per cent of their budgets on recurrent expenditure, largely salaries, wages and allowances, while about nine per cent would be spent on procuring equipment, weapons and other software and hardware needed to tackle insecurity in the country.

Only sophisticated arms can stop B’Haram, ISWAP – Soldiers insist

In the face of the little funds to procure defence equipment, according to the budget estimate, the Theatre Commander of the army’s Operation Lafiya Dole, Major General Olusegun Adeniyi, said on Thursday that what the army needed to end the ISWAP and Boko Haram war were combat helicopters.

Speaking when he received a delegation of the National Assembly Joint Committee on the army, led by Senator Ali Ndume, on Thursday, Adeniyi stated that Boko Haram had never been as formidable as perceived.

He said, “The only thing that needs to be given to the army now is Nigerian Army Aviation. There is a way you solve a problem that will change the game. The army needs combat helicopters to end the Boko Haram war. These helicopters will be with us at the battlefront. I know this has been on the table for years. When this is done, Nigeria can forget about Boko Haram.”

Meanwhile, military commanders, especially those currently engaged in operations at the battlefield in the North-East, had told Saturday PUNCH in a recent report that they were still using outdated weapons and equipment, including failing Shilka guns procured during the administration of the late Alhaji Shehu Shagari, who was the President of Nigeria between 1979 and 1983.

They noted that this development had exposed the Nigerian troops to attacks by the terrorists, especially the Islamic State in West Africa Province fighters, who, according to them, use more sophisticated weapons.

They, however, said they needed sophisticated weapons to defeat the terrorists.

One of the commanders said, “I can tell you that we have not been supplied with fresh equipment in a long while. Those terrorists, especially ISWAP fighters, are very deadly and confident and they now use foreign mercenaries.”

One of the commanders again told one of our correspondents on Friday that the 2020 budget proposal submitted to the National Assembly implied that “nothing would change in terms supply of arms, ammunition and other equipment needed to fight the war, yet it’s only superior weapons that can defeat them.”

The Governor of Borno State, Babagana Zulum, had said in July that Boko Haram had higher expertise and better technological weapons than the military.

The President also said at a regional summit in Burkina Faso on September 14 that “the frequency of attacks, the determination and resilience of the terrorist groups as well as the ease with which they raise funds and acquire sophisticated weapons were matters of serious concern.”

Also, at the summit, the President of Niger Republic, Mahamadou Issoufou, announced that ECOWAS leaders had decided to mobilise “financial resources of up to a billion dollars for the fight against terrorism.”

Meanwhile, apart from the insurgency in the North-East, there had been concerns over the high rate of killings of innocent Nigerians by bandits, kidnappers and armed robbers. This had made some persons to question the efficiency and capacity of the security agencies, as they tied the challenge to poor funding of the security agencies.

The then Governor of Zamfara State, Abdulaziz Yari, said in March 2019 that the bandits terrorising the state were more equipped than the entire security forces deployed to combat their activities.

Yari told journalists at the State House, Abuja after holding a meeting with the President that the bandits had stockpiled as much as 500 AK-47 rifle in one of their armoury.

Budget estimates offer no hope of improved security – Security experts

A security expert and President, African Council on Narcotics, Mr Rekpene Bassey, described the proposed 2020 budget for the Ministry of Defence and the police as grossly inadequate.

He said, “If you convert the total amount that has been budgeted for the Ministry of Defence, N878.458bn into dollars, what you have is about $2.4bn, while the capital expenditure of N99.86bn comes to about $275m. It is even worse for the police that have a total expenditure of N403.32bn, about $1.114bn while the capital expenditure is just about $34m.

“The implication of this proposed capital expenditure in the military and police is that we are going to face more security challenges in terms of the internal and national security environment.

“This portends a lot of dire challenges in the months ahead in terms of security and I cannot fathom why they have proposed that.”

Also, a security expert, Mr Chigozie Ubani, said the proposed capital expenditure, especially for the police, was a negative signal, adding that Nigerians should not expect anything new in terms of tackling criminalities from security operatives in the coming year.

He said, “The implications are grievous for us. The budget proposal, especially for the police, is worrisome. Note that budget is an estimate and over the years we have not met the police budget, even up to 80 per cent. So, what it means is that the estimated proposal for the police in 2020, I can bet you that less than 40 per cent of it will be drawn down.

“The implication is not good for us because until we fix our police, our challenges will continue to fester. What we are fighting today in the North-East was initially the affair of the police, but they could not deal with it and that was how it became a military affair.”

“In my view, there is nothing in the budget that shows that there is a conscious effort to improve on the quality of policing the nation.”

Military looking at alternative funding sources — DHQ

Meanwhile, the Defence Headquarters has said that to tackle the imbalance in the budgetary allocations for the military, the armed forces have been looking for and moving towards alternative sources of funding.

The Acting Director, Defence Information, Col Onyema Nwachukwu, said the military had begun to produce “armoured carriers, and ships locally.”

In an interview with our correspondent on Friday, he said, “If you look at the 2020 budgetary allocations, about N100bn is what is allocated to defence. And when you talk about recurrent and capital expenditure, you find out that the recurrent is quite higher than the capital.

“The idea is that from the outset, we have always talked about seeking alternative sources of funding for the military. We are working in this regard. The Nigerian military is evolving, considering the various contemporary security challenges, which are of course a global phenomenon. There are various theatres of operation around the country and the military has been very innovative despite the budgetary allocations.

Also, Force spokesperson, DCP Frank Mba, in his response to the lopsided budget estimate said, “I’m sorry, I may not be able to respond to this enquiry now. I can only give you an appropriate response after due consultation with the Budget Department. I will do that and revert to you as soon as possible, please.”

https://punchng.com/2020-military-police-to-spend-91-of-budgets-on-salaries-others/

Please be careful with sponsored op.eds by military aparatchiks. The Nigerian military is adequately funded. The generals are very wasteful and they are not buying right. 80% of the worlds military have the same problem (wastefulness) so maybe its just as well. I know the NAF and NA are very wasteful. Capital budgeting has been going to shiny new barracks and soft skinned Toyotas for very long. There is no Boko Haram problem, there is a Nigerian Army/ Nigerian Airforce problem. They dont want the problem to go away and ISWAP is just a boon to them.

How else do you explain spending four years to buy three choppers for the NA?. Look at the last three years capex profile.
..its a joke. The NA and NAF have become military barracks development companies not wartime destroyers of Nigerias enemies.

Now they are paying (bribing) for articles in Punch Newspapers because it is budget defence season.

Let them explain how they match the capital budget to the threats. Why does a vehicle last only six months in theatre?. Where are the UAVs they bought?. Where did we get only two flight-loads (air cargo) of equipment in two years?. Why have the JF 17S not landed?

These ate the questions?

kikuyu2:


Yes! As the link showed Chinese analogs like the HJ-8 built in the late 80s are 50% less but the newer models like the -11 and -12 are only 20-30% less in cost. Due to the tech involved,guidance seeker,flight motor,cutting edge production processes etc,etc its not possible to go below a certain price point. See the Javelin diagram.

This Ukrainian buy shows the cost breakdown of roughly 200k$ a piece for the Jav:
[url]https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-prepares-39m-anti-tank-javelin-missiles-ukraine[/ur

If I'm reading you correctly static bases each with cheap ATGMs and a sole launcher will defeat BH. Do you have a source for those bargain basement ATGMs?

ATGMs dont work in the heat of battle....set up time too long and then it is at least 45s to take out a "technical ". ATGM emplacements and crews can be taken out by snipers or more often suicide bombers. We know BHT spends days on recce before they attack formations. The recce is high endurance stuff involving staying inside the mud and grime for hours and days..tracking and observing.
The whole point of ATGM for base defence is too defensive to be a philosophy for eradicating BHT.
Hunting and killing is what we intend to do and that's choppers, artillery, MLRSs and fast MRAPs

*PRESS RELEASE*

*NIGERIAN ARMY TROOPS CAPTURE 10 SENIOR BOKO HARAM COMMANDERS AND ARREST KEY LOGISTICS SUPPLIERS*

As Nigerian Army continues to heighten the tempo of her operational activities against bandits, insurgents and other criminal elements nationwide, the gallant troops of Operation LAFIYA DOLE have stepped up artillery bombardment of identified Boko Haram criminals’ enclaves and hideouts. Troops have equally stepped up the effective blockade of their logistics supply routes and the arrest of some of their key logistics suppliers with devastating outcomes on the criminal insurgent group. For instance, during a successful sting operation conducted on 9 October 2019 by troops of the 26Task Force Brigade, 10 suspected key Boko Haram members were reportedly captured while attempting to sneak into some communities around Bitta in Gwoza LGA of Borno State in a bid to escape the troops’ sustained onslaught against them. Preliminary investigation reveals that the arrested criminals are ranked higher than the Amir in the criminals’ hierarchy. Many of them have been identified to have operated combat vehicles during the infamous Boko Haram attack on Gwoza in 2014.The arrested suspects include ShettimaMustapha Umar, Abba Buji, Alhaji Bukar Madu-(KAHID - a Boko Haram Terrorists’ equivalent of a Brigadier General), Ali Hassan (Boko Haram Terrorist Imam), Alkali Laminu, Bukur Mustapha, Buba Umaru (Alias Black Uhuru) also a KAHID, Madu Nosobe, Mustapha Hussaine and Umar Jeddum all from Bama LGA of Borno State. It is gratifying to note that one of the arrested suspects, Alhaji Bukar Modu is Serial 89 on the high profile Boko Haram leaders wanted list published by the authorities of the Nigerian Army.

Similarly, in 1 Division Area of Responsibility, troops of 1 Division Garrison Tactical Headquarters responded to a reported cattle rustling incident. Acting on reliable information from the locals, the troops intercepted the suspected criminals along with the rustled animals while attempting to cross Polewire Labi, a community in Birnin Gwari LGA of Kaduna State. On sighting the approaching troops however, the criminal bandits abandoned the 23 rustled cows and fled into the forest. Consequently, the animals were recovered by the troops while efforts are on to identify their owners for eventual release to them. Furthermore, in a joint operation conducted by the troops of 3 Brigade in conjunction with the personnel of the Nigeria Police Birniwa Command in Jigawa State, 5 herdsmen complicit in the gruesome murder of one Mallam Haliru Yahaya in his farm were arrested. The arrested suspects are currently in the custody of the Nigeria Police Birniwa Command while troops maintain vigilance in the area to forestall any escalation.

In another development, troops of 4 Brigade operating under the aegis of operation MESA smashed a notorious armed robbery gang that have been terrorizing commuters along a major road at Owa Community in Uhunmwaede LGA of Edo State. One of the suspects, Mr Evans Obidili Ubaka was promptly arrested while other gang members fled. However, concerted efforts are on to track and arrest the fleeing criminals. Also, on same day, the troops conducted a joint operation with personnel of the Nigeria Police Oredo Command. Acting on credible information, the operation led to the arrest of a renowned kidnappers’ informant popularly known as “Mr Jaguar”. Preliminary investigation reveals that the suspect master minded the recent infamous kidnap of a man, his pregnant wife and child in the area.

In a similar vein, troops of 32 Artillery Brigade's Anti-Kidnapping Team conducted a security investigation mission to Ajowa- Akoko village in Akoko North West LGA of Ondo State. The troops met with one Alhaji Zakari Yau, a kidnap victim who escaped from his abductors after spending 2 days in captivity. Information gathered during the mission led to the arrest of one of the suspects named Wasiu Mohammed and 3 other members of the gang. During preliminary investigations, the suspects confessed to the kidnapping of the victim and the demand for a ransom of Five Million Naira (#5,000.000.00) only. Cordon and Search of the kidnappers’ hideout resulted in the recovery of 4 machetes, one TECNO mobile phone, 2 First Bank ATM cards, one voters card and one ID card belonging to one Mr Moses Michael Jackson. Also recovered was the GSM phone used by the prime suspect Wasiu Mohammed. In a related operation conducted by same troops in the same area, another member of a notorious 5 man kidnap gang, 21 year old Jimoh Umar was also arrested and handed over to the DSS Ondo State Command.

Additionally, in 9 Brigade Area of Responsibility, timely intervention by troops averted a heinous attack on personnel and equipment of the Nigeria Customs Service Idiroko Command by some miscreants opposed to the border closure directed by the Federal Government of Nigeria. In the same vein, troops arrested a murder suspect, one Luck Pam, at Rawairu Village in Barkin Ladi LGA of Plateau State. The suspect confessed to the murder of a herdsman on 5 October 2019.

In the Niger Delta region, troops continue to thwart the activities of economic saboteurs and their collaborators by continually destroying all identified illegal refining sites, arresting their operators and illegal value chain benefactors. In the same vein, troops of 343 Artillery Regiment arrested a truck with Registration Number EPE 24 XG loaded with substance suspected to be stolen crude oil along Elele Alimini Road with 3 occupants. Suspects and exhibits will be handed over to the EFCC Rivers State Command at the end of preliminary investigation. Similar operations conducted by troops across the region recently resulted in the destruction of 11 Illegal refineries, 13 storage tanks, 2 boats loaded with stolen crude oil, 3,200 litres of illegally refined petroleum products, 3 metal tanks containing illegally refined petroleum products, one speed boat mounted with 75 HP engine, 4 Cotonou boats, 3 welding machines, 3 generating sets, one gas cylinder, 2 iron plates, 8 iron pipes, 5 pumping machines and 7 boilers under construction.

In the light of the above, the Chief of Army Staff, Lt Gen Tukur Yusuf Buratai wishes to thank all patriotic citizens for availing the Nigerian Army with useful information leading to the successes so far recorded. He also congratulates the troops for the unprecedented successes in the arrest of the 10 Boko Haram criminals while admonishing them to keep the pressure on the insurgents and their collaborators.

You are kindly requested to disseminate above information to the general public for awareness.
Thank you for your usual cooperation.

AMINU ILIYASU
Colonel
Nigerian Army Operations Media Coordinator
10 October 2019

kikuyu2:


Yes! As the link showed Chinese analogs like the HJ-8 built in the late 80s are 50% less but the newer models like the -11 and -12 are only 20-30% less in cost. Due to the tech involved,guidance seeker,flight motor,cutting edge production processes etc,etc its not possible to go below a certain price point. See the Javelin diagram.

This Ukrainian buy shows the cost breakdown of roughly 200k$ a piece for the Jav:
https://www.voanews.com/usa/us-prepares-39m-anti-tank-javelin-missiles-ukraine

If I'm reading you correctly static bases each with cheap ATGMs and a sole launcher will defeat BH. Do you have a source for those bargain basement ATGMs?

Donor grants to Academic Board funds us for exchange programs, trips to security Think Tanks, excursions to OEMs, field demo public sales promos. Yes low calibre ATGM is cheap in Belarus, Pak, Serb, etc, get a good deal negotiator not weak negotiators Govts always send because they hold high office.

NA can deploy 3 ATGM launchers per FOB, I only said one launcher on a low fund of $50 million. NA gets $180 m average per year for capital procurement, COAS confirmed $120 m for army alone in 2020 capital procurement.

Gentleman do I hav 2 xplain everytin? Am tired writing long story

Man port PGM is a killer ECOWAS armies can't grasp it's game changing because their armies never fired ATGM in their life time. Can't keep explaining details without incentive for my labour sir and expensive Javelin is for killing ERA APS MBT not BHT Hilux.

Jimi24:


ATGMs dont work in the heat of battle....set up time too long and then it is at least 45s to take out a "technical ". ATGM emplacements and crews can be taken out by snipers or more often suicide bombers. We know BHT spends days on recce before they attack formations. The recce is high endurance stuff involving staying inside the mud and grime for hours and days..tracking and observing.
The whole point of ATGM for base defence is too defensive to be a philosophy for eradicating BHT.
Hunting and killing is what we intend to do and that's choppers, artillery, MLRSs and fast MRAPs

You say ATGM don't work in heat of battle because it's 45 seconds set up time is too long? For the 6 hour long fights our FOB guards fight BHT assaults before our base falls? How? Even Metele firefight our troops lost base in 45 minutes, they would have fired off 10 ATGMs in 30 minutes and all the powerful ISWAP anti-aircraft Hilux gun trucks that defeated us would have been destroyed, leaving weak DSHK, PKM vehicles and AK-47, RPG men on foot that we will grind to powder with our own DSHK, NSV, and LG AGL, to win the day for us, and win every other day if we resupply expended ordnance.

Bruz, this North East war is mission impossible because NA leadership makes it look so.

Na from this budget you go know say we no get useful military leaders.

The Army is getting $1.2bn and 1.1 of it is recurrent! Why?One major reason; very useless constabulary deployment around the motherland or in their brag tone "we are deployed in 31 out of 36 States". How about asking how with so much go to personnel cost we still have boys on the field praying for their pay?

With just barely $50m for capital expenditure can we all see these bats including the "supposed officer" that wants helicopter parked near trench are high and clueless?
To us on the keyboard, can we fathom how many MRAPs/APCs, HMGs, Mortar tubes (minus smaller things like Comms, webbings) we can buy from this peanuts

Can we see how small NAF budget is? Who is still asking for Air backup for every attack?
Can we tell NAF to slow down on "building" Regiment & SF numbers?

Meanwhile, military commanders, especially those currently engaged in operations at the battlefield in the North-East, had told Saturday PUNCH in a recent report that they were still using outdated weapons and equipment, including failing Shilka guns procured during the administration of the late Alhaji Shehu Shagari, who was the President of Nigeria between 1979 and 1983.
They noted that this development had exposed the Nigerian troops to attacks by the terrorists, especially the Islamic State in West Africa Province fighters, who, according to them, use more sophisticated weapons.

How on earth did we get "military commanders" that cannot give a useful brief to a military-ignorant politician!! How many shilkas do we have in the first place that the person is making it look like they lost their FOBs cause of it
How about saying "due to aging of what we have now (shilka), the are cheap effective alternatives (23-30mm cannon stations) we NEED desperately"

Since the ones at the front are still lying to themselves that Terrorists use more sophisticated weapons- the same weapons that the Army donated, then its a sorry case

GabrielYulaw:

Not a sole launcher. Multiple launchers, like around 10 per base. Our biggest issue is the gun trucks the enemy uses. These are equipped with AA guns that do a lot of damage. Currently, the NA engages these gun trucks with gun trucks of their own and RPGs. This does not assure a hit. Even old ATGMs can engage a gun truck at ranges the guns in these gun trucks cannot hit anything.

Think of mortar bomb with flechettes

& 107mm MRL

WARTHUNDER:


My broz, Warthunder is a lecturer in this field, he knows much more than you wrote. He reviewed all spec details of MD-500, it wont defeat ISWAP. Army must be strong on its land. This year June, one Jihadist used ordinary 7.62mm PKM to shoot down a good French armed Gazelle helic, news on internet.

Infantry ATGM low calibre versions made in China Ukraine Pakistan cost only $20 a pop new build, $10k storage stock. Very cheap east side, not USA Javelin. I blame NA because they dont shop right, Little $50 m buys 100 ATGMs launchers (covers all 100 FOBs) with 2,000 missiles for NA, now does ISWAP, BHT have 2,000 Hilux gun trucks to fight such NA in new MTOE & TDA?

Regarding helicopter shoot down

Well a war zone of full of surprises , even then one cannot take a few exceptions to be the norm. That would be foolhardy.

ATGMs r of different types which makes them suitable or unsuitable for unconventional warfare.

In a unconventional war the hostilities rely mainly on ambush and hit and run tactics . They present a target for a few seconds before they disappear. They have the luxury of choosing the terrain and vegetation to suit their needs and put the other side at a disadvantage.

Eg u cannot fire wire guided ATGMS or laser guided ATGMs through vegetation becz the guidance wire will get sagged in the bushes and laser beams will get disrupted.

Also MCLOS/SACLOS type of missiles u referred to are not fire and forgot ATGMs.

They require to be set up and need a clear LOS view and requires profiency on the part of the crew to obtain desired efficiency. % of success will vary considerably especially against small sized fast moving targets.

Also warheads of ATGMs are intended for armoured targets and hence many a times don't function optimally again soft skinned targets like technicals.

Then there is the OODA loop ( observe orient decide act ) , I will not make it complicated , so simplistically speaking one needs to detect the target before he can act. Does NA have the system's in hand to preemptive any ambush or attack . Without corresponding situational awareness corresponding firepower will suffer shortfalls.

But nevertheless these types can be used for defence of fixed positions like FOBs provided they r located properly and have a unobstructed LOS and all vegetation / foliage has been removed from the designated fire zones surrounding the FOBs.

Only IIR based fire and forget ATGMs offers a higher kill probability . It rectifies all the deficiencies of the above systems but costs higher.

If ATGMs r a requirement then IMO what u guys need is something like mini spike or something in its category and functionality.

nemesis8u:


Regarding helicopter shoot down

Well a war zone of full of surprises , even then one cannot take a few exceptions to be the norm. That would be foolhardy.

ATGMs r of different types which makes them suitable or unsuitable for unconventional warfare.

In a unconventional war the hostilities rely mainly on ambush and hit and run tactics . They present a target for a few seconds before they disappear. They have the luxury of choosing the terrain and vegetation to suit their needs and put the other side at a disadvantage.

Eg u cannot fire wire guided ATGMS or laser guided ATGMs through vegetation becz the guidance wire will get sagged in the bushes and laser beams will get disrupted.

Also MCLOS/SACLOS type of missiles u referred to are not fire and forgot ATGMs.

They require to be set up and need a clear LOS view and requires profiency on the part of the crew to obtain desired efficiency. % of success will vary considerably especially against small sized fast moving targets.

Also warheads of ATGMs are intended for armoured targets and hence many a times don't function optimally again soft skinned targets like technicals.

Then there is the OODA loop ( observe orient decide act ) , I will not make it complicated , so simplistically speaking one needs to detect the target before he can act. Does NA have the system's in hand to preemptive any ambush or attack . Without corresponding situational awareness corresponding firepower will suffer shortfalls.

But nevertheless these types can be used for defence of fixed positions like FOBs provided they r located properly and have a unobstructed LOS and all vegetation / foliage has been removed from the designated fire zones surrounding the FOBs.

Only IIR based fire and forget ATGMs offers a higher kill probability . It rectifies all the deficiencies of the above systems but costs higher.

If ATGMs r a requirement then IMO what u guys need is something like mini spike or something in its category and functionality.

you just dey talk ATGM up and down, have you thought of the very high likelihood of these ATGMs being captured from our boys in FOBs? Giving how poor our FOBs are?? Make we dey realistic na abeg

Interesting developments in potential defence procurements

https://mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/af/idUSKBN1WQ20W?__twitter_impression=true

nemesis8u:


Regarding helicopter shoot down

Well a war zone of full of surprises , even then one cannot take a few exceptions to be the norm. That would be foolhardy.

ATGMs r of different types which makes them suitable or unsuitable for unconventional warfare.

In a unconventional war the hostilities rely mainly on ambush and hit and run tactics . They present a target for a few seconds before they disappear. They have the luxury of choosing the terrain and vegetation to suit their needs and put the other side at a disadvantage.

Eg u cannot fire wire guided ATGMS or laser guided ATGMs through vegetation becz the guidance wire will get sagged in the bushes and laser beams will get disrupted.

Also MCLOS/SACLOS type of missiles u referred to are not fire and forgot ATGMs.

They require to be set up and need a clear LOS view and requires profiency on the part of the crew to obtain desired efficiency. % of success will vary considerably especially against small sized fast moving targets.

Also warheads of ATGMs are intended for armoured targets and hence many a times don't function optimally again soft skinned targets like technicals.

Then there is the OODA loop ( observe orient decide act ) , I will not make it complicated , so simplistically speaking one needs to detect the target before he can act. Does NA have the system's in hand to preemptive any ambush or attack . Without corresponding situational awareness corresponding firepower will suffer shortfalls.

But nevertheless these types can be used for defence of fixed positions like FOBs provided they r located properly and have a unobstructed LOS and all vegetation / foliage has been removed from the designated fire zones surrounding the FOBs.

Only IIR based fire and forget ATGMs offers a higher kill probability . It rectifies all the deficiencies of the above systems but costs higher.

IMO what u guys need is something like mini spike or something in its category and functionality.

French Gazelle shot down by Jihadi in Mali is not a one off exception, it was simple 7.62mm that killed it, that means if those Jihadis have enough 14.5mm x 2 and 23mm x 2 they will shoot down Rafale jet that enters AAA range at subsonic speed.

Next, you missed many things bruv;

ATGM are two different types, HEAT warhead to kill armour like Leopard tanks, Thermobaric warhead to kill soft skin vehicles like CT-COIN insurgents Toyota Technicals, fortified bunkers, low altitude helicopters, etc.

Then BHT attacks our FOBs a lot, forcing us to retreat to super camp, storming NA FOB is an assault not ambush.

Most of our N.E. is open dry land apart from few like Sambisa Forest that is not a real thick Mangrove jungle, it's Savannah sparse bush land.

We won't use wire guide, we will use laser beam riding, bros am not a maize farmer to recommend wire guidance in urban or woodland clutter theatre. You assume I don't know the depth of ATGM, brah you assume wrongly

Mini Spike 1.5 km range won't do well for NA against ISWAP ZSU-23 AAA 2.5 km range. I prefer Red Arrow like low budget nations Rwanda, South Sudan use.

No weapon is 100% accurate, is DSHK 100%? No! So armies should not use it again for that reason?

It's called Single Shot Hit Probability and varies in percentage for each discharger and projectile. Tanks cannon are far worse in hit rate than ATGM.

76mm cannon on NA Scorpion averages below 10% hit rate on BHT Hilux speeding​ 80 kmh at 2 km distance, but ATGM guidance can make 80% single shot hit rate while Scorpion fake tank fires 8 shells and misses, wasting all of them till BHT swings 23mm x 2 cannon on it and kill the Nigerian Scorpion dead.

I just explained how we are losing FOB with heavy weapons, I also explained solution, it's precision guided infantry missiles that will degrade ISWAP to foot men with AK-47 and RPG that has less than 180 metres good accuracy range, while we massacre these enemies with DSHK & AGL, 1,000 m & 2,000 m accuracy range.

I have said much, it's enough for open minded readers, I need to stop or else there will be no end of discussion.

Odunayaw:

Think of mortar bomb with flechettes

& 107mm MRL

Mortars are ok, but a short range MLRS is best due to its massive firepower. Think of the be Vasilesk if it's Chinese equivalent.

oyinpr:
you just dey talk ATGM up and down, have you thought of the very high likelihood of these ATGMs being captured from our boys in FOBs? Giving how poor our FOBs are?? Make we dey realistic na abeg

Baba u blame the wrong guy

I specifically said " if ATGMs r a requirement " and then gave my personal opinion on what type of atgm is the best option.

If u r worried about weapons being captured then what's the point in arming the soldiers abeg ?

WARTHUNDER:


I have said much, it's enough for open minded readers, I need to stop or else there will be no end of discussion.

Let's agree to disagree

Oh boy, make una come see o!

"Nigeria discusses with Russia the possibility to purchase its Su-57 fighters and is also interested in Russian helicopters, tanks and intelligence equipment, Steve Davies Ugbah said.

"You also mentioned Su-57 fighters, negotiations are also underway on them. But sanctions against Russia do not help this cause, as you can imagine. Russia is a reliable partner that always fulfills its obligations," Ugbah said."

https://sputniknews.com/world/201910111077019504-nigeria-has-received-6-russian-mi-35m-helicopters-expects-6-remaining---ambassador/

nemesis8u:


Baba u blame the wrong guy

I specifically said " if ATGMs r a requirement " and then gave my personal opinion on what type of atgm is the best option.

If u r worried about weapons being captured then what's the point in arming the soldiers abeg ?

well maybe that's why our guys ain't "armed" I just hope one day we don't fend the ARA in ISWAP possession

rka2:
Oh boy, make una come see o!

"Nigeria discusses with Russia the possibility to purchase its Su-57 fighters and is also interested in Russian helicopters, tanks and intelligence equipment, Steve Davies Ugbah said.

"You also mentioned Su-57 fighters, negotiations are also underway on them. But sanctions against Russia do not help this cause, as you can imagine. Russia is a reliable partner that always fulfills its obligations," Ugbah said."

https://sputniknews.com/world/201910111077019504-nigeria-has-received-6-russian-mi-35m-helicopters-expects-6-remaining---ambassador/

by now this should be in the garbage truck!

As usual, people on twitter have started drawing up wishlist upandan

Odunayaw:
by now this should be in the garbage truck!

As usual, people on twitter have started drawing up wishlist upandan

the military will probably end up with 2 aircrafts, 3 tanks, 1 extra Mrap and a patrol boat.

How it plays out in my head
Base attack

allahu Akbar allahu Akbar!!..
The fucktards come swarming.
Have the Atgm cheering squad thought of it that 14.5/23mm on a Toyota is not stabilized and can't shoot near spot in slow motion or anything at 80km/h
would I not rather have cheap effective 107mm MRL firing salvo to saturate the general area of those beetches?

Ambush attack.
Any ambush that'd be successful would usually be in the range of small arms hence the usual emphasis on large volume of fire. That said, johnny maddog shared his weed with these thugs.
Won't I rather need a gunner behind a 25-30mm cannon in an IFV!
No one is crying IFVs with cannon+AGL mix, yet am seeing atgm!!


ATGMs should be in our inventory, I just don't see where they'd come in first over every other weapon in this kind of war

rka2:


the military will probably end up with 2 aircrafts, 3 tanks, 1 extra Mrap and a patrol boat.

As far as its this administration...fold thine hands.

su-57 ko, Atlanta-96 ni

rka2:
Oh boy, make una come see o!

"Nigeria discusses with Russia the possibility to purchase its Su-57 fighters and is also interested in Russian helicopters, tanks and intelligence equipment, Steve Davies Ugbah said.

"You also mentioned Su-57 fighters, negotiations are also underway on them. But sanctions against Russia do not help this cause, as you can imagine. Russia is a reliable partner that always fulfills its obligations," Ugbah said."

https://sputniknews.com/world/201910111077019504-nigeria-has-received-6-russian-mi-35m-helicopters-expects-6-remaining---ambassador/

SU-57 with which budget and under what agreement? When just three JF-17s from Pakistan is taking eternity to arrive due to budget limitations and unseriousness. I want to believe this is just Russian propaganda to drive the notion that many countries are now getting interested in the SU-57, or otherwise, a slip of tongue by our Prof Ugbah

No be only SU-57, why not typhoon?

EVarn:
SU-57 with which budget and under what agreement? When just three JF-17s from Pakistan is taking eternity to arrive due to budget limitations and unseriousness. I want to believe this is just Russian propaganda to drive the notion that many countries are now getting interested in the SU-57, or otherwise, a slip of tongue by our Prof Ugbah

No be only SU-57, why not typhoon?

There have just been too many false Dawns. National assembly members nearly had coronaries with the Super Tucano purchase, what do you think would happen to them if they used excess crude 'oyel' account for the Russian purchases

rka2:


There have just been too many false Dawns. National assembly members nearly had coronaries with the Super Tucano purchase, what do you think would happen to them if they used excess crude 'oyel' account for the Russian purchases

Probably they will all keel over their parliamentary seats and die of cardiac arrest

However, we know that even if that was done, there is no coherent blueprint for military procurements. We have had billions of dollars released for procurements over the past decade, but nothing tangible has been achieved.

Military purchases in Nigeria is a lucrative enterprise for politicians, generals, profiteers and middle men who have zero care for national defense needs. Truly sad state of affairs. Those in power must learn to be criminal, but not at the detriment of the state.

When BHT storms NA FOB speeding 80 kmh maneuvering on approach to negate hit probability of all NA long range mortars, Scorpion, Vickers, RM-70 rockets and FH-77 artillery. Our DHSK are too short ranged. All NA arsenal turns useless for point effect accuracy defensive fire on moving target. Videos of those hard to hit tactics crazy driving BHT are seen on internet.

As ISWAP is 2 km from open field FOB, they dont need gun stabilization or marksmanship, they just slow to like 50 km, turn to side cross motion and discharge KPV or ZSU ammo shower on FOB that is a large stationary target even dullard BHT gunners wont miss, its area effect fire on such huge fixed target like our FOB, soldiers start dying, our APC, LAV vehicle armour are penetrated even before we can return fire, our troops panic as death and destruction starts, also BHT acoustic effect of KPV kills our boys morale to fight back.

KPVT 14.5 ZSU 23 are explosive bullets and effects like small grenades, they penetrate and also explode on impact, NA cant survive it, reason our FOBs fall and 1,900 own servicemen are dead today.

MRLS, mortars, field artillery, NA cant use in urban bases with civilian towns, or we kill innocent civilians. So, initial attack phase of ISWAP stormers need be stopped with precision fire ATGM, or 25mm 30mm IFV, but people avoid asking for IFV since NA seems sworn to not use IFV in BTOE, MTOE, TDA. If they cant spend $2 million per IFV with 30mm, lets ask for 500k ATGM thats 4 times cheaper. It's also correct to say IFV 25mm 30mm turret will work as excellent options instead of ATGM any of both options will make us happy and safe. $2 million apiece BTR-90 with 30mm will also defeat ISWAP and better than $5 million armed Eurocopter EC135 but NA will need 200 IFV to cover same area as 20 armed copters.

After detailed review of money cost and tech capability for all possible options, cheap China Belarus Pakistan $500k ATGM with $10k old stock missiles, supported with $10 KPV 14.5mm at one anti-aircraft gun per NA Platoon, gives best low cost-high effectiveness to make this combo WARTHUNDER's favourite affordable game changers for Nigerian Army to kill ISWAP beast dead without calling NAF to fly omnipresent sorties everywhere, ISWAP has no air force to call for support, yet they survive.

SamuelAnyawu:
Is there any update on the recent ISWAP attack at Gajiganna in Magumeri LGA yeaterday?

The only update is on Gubio.

*PRESS RELEASE*

TROOPS OBLITERATE BOKO HARAM CRIMINALS CAPTURE ARMS AMMUNITION AND EQUIPMENT

Troops of 242 Battalion in conjunction with elements of Sector 2 Multinational Joint Task Force (MNJTF) Chadian Defence Forces (CDF) yeterday 10 October 2019 encountered a Boko Haram criminals’ ambush at Jigalta Village ahead of Marari, 27 Kilometers from Monguno in Borno State while on a joint clearance operation. The criminals laid an ambush with 5 Gun trucks and unconfirmed number of insurgents.
However, the gallant troops responsively countered the ambush and decimated the uncoordinated criminals. Resultantly, 15 of the Boko Haram criminals were neutralized while few of them escaped with severe gun shot wounds. In addition, 2 Boko Haram Gun Trucks were destroyed while another 2 were captured. Also, 4 Dutshka Anti-Aircraft Guns, 9 AK 47 Rifles and a sizeable catche of ammunition were captured by the gallant troops. Unfortunately, one soldier paid the supreme sacrifice during the cross fire that ensued while a Chadian soldier was also wounded in action. The Commander Sector 3 Operation LAFIYA DOLE/MNJTF, Major General Abdulmalik Biu in company of the Commander Sector 2 MNJTF (CDF), Colonel Bokhit Ali, Commander Sector 3 Operation LAFIYA DOLE Artillery Brigade Brigadier General Jamiu Jimoh and Commander 3 Military Intelligence Brigade Colonel Abubakar Mohammed visited the jubilant troops at the location of the encounter. Major General Abdulmalik Biu commended the efforts of the troops and conveyed the Chief of Army Staff Lt Gen Tukur Yusuf Buratai’s appreciation and commendation as well as the Force Commander MNJTF Major General Chikezie Ude’s words of encouragement to the troops. Additionally, the Commander Sector 2 MNJTF (CDF) Colonel Bokhit Ali expressed his satisfaction with the collaborative effort and renewed his commitment to fighting the menace of the ISWAP/Boko Haram criminals' insurgency together.

You are kindly requested to disseminate above information to the general public for awareness.
Thank you for your usual cooperation.

AMINU ILIYASU
Colonel
Nigerian Army Operations Media Coordinator
11 October 2019

Photos.....

More....

Conclusion...