Once he has a distinction in a relevant field

I have a lower credit in Accountancy

You will do yourself more good if you proceed to MBA and try to have ICAN.

I guess it's high time we stop this long discrimination,

Can u imagine two fresh graduates (a BSc holder and a HND holder) employed by a company, and both of them were being paid the 100,000 and 50,000 naira respectively.

Government should please stop this discrimination and advice present employer,

All the best to all HND holders

Government said the man with HND is middle level. He should have obtain a Bsc, since HND was his best because due to one reason or the other he found himself in the polytechnic. I am sure he want to go to university too.
What made he to go to polytechnics made him to earn little.

@HND-holder
HND holders are treated as outcasts in Nigeria. Even Government paratatals and ministries discriminate against holders of HND certificate. Companies and corporate organisations see HND holders as the best materials for contract jobs. They are employed to do the same work together with holders of BSc certificates, but their own terms of employment are always different, usually low pay and no good benefits compared to employees with BSc. But the funny thing is that they do the same job in the same office; but they are seen as the best materials for contract jobs.

Gaskiya allah dey

Ismael,i will like to have a personal discussion with you.I have HND in statistics too.You can get to via my mail omobollaji@yahoo.com.
thanks

Hi guys, the arguement is heated up. If you have an HND, why not go for further studies than just arguing? No money? No problems. www.worldfreeschools.com , www.studyfreeinfo.com, and www.globalfreestudy.com have great resources to see all of you through higher education for FREE!

Come are you trying to advertise your product here. I am a PhD holder in Engineering with a lot of publications. I work for a highly rated company. Still my HND is a Big Obstacle in my career, they say I am not a convect.

I am very proud of my HND cert. All HND holders should strive ride above this discrimination. i got into the poly with straight A's. After graduation, i have supervised three bsc holders. Remuneration wise, I am currently on 6 digit per month and regular vacation abroad while many boasty bsc holders are still cluching on their application papers, knocking on doors year after year. Many PHD's will never achieve half of my living standard in their lifetime. Hold your head high brother, 4 yrs + 1yr ind. experience is no tea party.

In some few months time, i also will be awared HND in Elect/Elect Engr (telecoms Option). Well am proud of my certificate and i know it is something i can defend, and the future seems so bright for me, cos i feel that deeply within me.
My advice to same fellas, is have confidence in yourself and try to do your best in any situatuion you find yourself.

But I will really like you guys with enough expereince to share your experiences with people like me on what we shuld be expecting out there, and how should we prepare for it.

very soon it will be BSc vs BTech, because awarding BTech to polytechnic graduates will still not solve the problem of discrimination against polytechnic graduates. Our government are the reason behind this discrimination, and until they stop discriminating btw poly and uni as well as HND and Bsc the discrimination will always be there. Employers might change strategy by asking for "Degree from a recognised university". Only God will help Poly graduates in Nigeria.

May the BTech certificate not suffer like the HND certificate, that's my own.

I am glad i found this website, this is the same question i have been asking myself about Btec and Bsc,

i am currently based in the uk but having difficulties with uni :-( I am currently a BTEC ND holder and looking to go for HND. would you say, uni is the way forward or HND? n in terms of career prospect, who would get a job first?!

BTEC holders or Uni grads??

ToughLife:

I am glad i found this website, this is the same question i have been asking myself about Btec and Bsc,

i am currently based in the uk but having difficulties with uni :-( I am currently a BTEC ND holder and looking to go for HND. would you say, uni is the way forward or HND? n in terms of career prospect, who would get a job first?!

BTEC holders or Uni grads??

Pls i will advice you to stay away from any certificate that is not a Degree. Do not go for HND, rather go for Bsc.

Bsc holders get jobs first in Nigeria, but i don't know of other countries.

i have decided to go for Bsc in computing and electronics, rather than HND because it is like a foundation level to a degree. Don't worry, I will be coming back to work in Nigeria after my degree

ToughLife:

i have decided to go for Bsc in computing and electronics, rather than HND because it is like a foundation level to a degree. Don't worry, I will be coming back to work in Nigeria after my degree

Better for you. Foreign Degree certificates are honoured here in Nigeria. When you come back to Nigeria you will see.

unless the government change the structure the way these two degree are administered, the discrimination will continue. my suggestion is that HND should be scrapped

richness:

unless the government change the structure the way these two degree are administered, the discrimination will continue. my suggestion is that HND should be scrapped

No, not HND alone, but Polytechnics should be scrapped as a whole; cos any certificate (whether HND, Bsc, BTech, Msc or MTech) that bears the name of any polytechnic will still face discrimination.

really ishmael, I think ND or OND can remain to provide middle level technical/professional skills because really not everybody will be able to or have the opportunity go to the university. Polytechnics should just produced ND and stop there, at least nobody will say ND and BSc should be equal (I hope so). A ND holder can now proceed to the university to obtain a BSc.

Really, considering the structure of the University and Polytechnics, there is no way both degrees can be considered equal- let face the fact. An academic degree is judge by the positions of those administering it and not the length of time

It's being a very long discussion. I just stumbled on it today (November 26th, 2008) and I was able to follow the discussion from when it started. As you might have guessed, I am also a product of the Polytechnic institution. I graduated in 2003 and completed my mandatory NYSC in 2004 before moving to the US in the same year. When I completed my ND, I had attempted to go to OAU to obtain a BSc. However, the prevalent admission politics stopped me from achieving that. I went back to the Polytechnic to complete my HND. Today, I am glad that I did. Some of my colleagues who had the patience and wherewithal to deal with the admission process got admitted a year after. Unfortunately, majority of them didn't graduate until 2007, 4 years after I completed my HND! Who has that time to waste?

I am currently pursuing a Masters in Information Technology with concentration in Telecommunications Management at a University in the US. One of the entry requirements for getting an admission for graduate studies is to first have your credentials evaluated by a Credential Evaluation agency like www.wes.com To my surprise, my HND evaluation came back as "Equivalent to a US 4 year BS degree". Now, someone else who comes from Nigeria to pursue a Masters degree over here who has a BSc from Nigeria will also get the same I evaluation that I got. The point is, the discrimination we are experiencing is an evil offspring of bad government educational policy. By the way, is the university becoming a cult system? How else can we explain the term "convocate"? I will prefer to define it as a University cult system for students who passed through a university educational system in Nigeria. If our dear friend HND-Holder was able to distinguish himself with Ph.D in Engineering, while should someone with inferiority complex and low self-esteem criticize him for passing through a Polytechnic? It's utter nonsense which I think should stop. I'm confident that it will eventually stop as we continue to have more and more Ph.Ds like HND-holder who are willing to stand up for the cause.

In the US, they also have a system of Colleges, Polytechnics and Universities. Some colleges award degrees up to BS. You achieve an Associate degree when you complete a 2 year course in a college, which is equivalent to our ND. Then you can proceed to the University to complete an additional 2 years to obtain a BS. You can enter directly to the university from year one to end but it's more expensive that way. That's why most people opt to college first and then transfer to a university to finish up. Putting that in perspective, I am for the idea of preserving the Polytechnic system for awarding ND as "mid-level manpower" producing institution. HND should be scraped and replaced with BS or cease to exist.

We are all a victim of a faulty system where some people just want to feel superior at someone else's expense even though everything about them says otherwise. They shouldn't be allowed to get away with this crime. Yes, it's a crime. The system is so worse now that you can only gain admission to most universities only if you are willing to "buy" it. Some people will demand up to NGN 80,000 to offer you admission. What for? That's the reason why our university system keeps churning out mediocres. A director at a major oil company recently made a remark about the university system producing first-class graduates who don't even understand basic concepts of Geology. I was expecting the University community to put up a logical defense. The few responses I read in the Newspapers then was further disappointing. A lecturer from LASU wrote that there are not enough fund to carry out research. I think you can only get funds when an entity realizes the potentials of your research. The reality of the matter is, majority of our academicians are not keeping up with recent developments in their fields. They are relying on archaic knowledge and principles, further passing that on to their students. By the time the students graduate and get into the field, they soon discover that things are different from what they are thought.

I also have a thing against going from classroom to classroom to become a lecturer/professor. The crucial industrial experience element is missing! How can you teach a concept that you do not have a hands-on experience with like it should be thought? It's not possible! Let our professors go and compare their credentials with that of their foreign counterparts, they will realize that their foreign counterparts have industrial experience first before opting for the academics. That's the route that the Polytechnic system follows. Make no mistakes, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Polytechnic system. The problem is the system in which it is being run. The Polytechnic system, if given its due recognition, is the system that will take us to the technological level that we put us at par with developed nations like the US and UK. What is killing us in Nigeria is the denial of our own ability. If we embrace home-grown technology and encourage people to be creative like it's done in countries like India, China and Japan, we would realize that we can compete favorably at all levels with those countries technology-wise. The lecturer at LASU claiming that they don't have funds and equipments to work with in order to perform meaningful research is very wrong in his argument. We want government to provide everything. An academic community should be able to improvise. What happened to reverse-engineering? If government is able to buy one of an equipment, I think the best thing should be for them to disassemble it and come up with a means of producing a similar technology and even refine it to make it better. This is what we can do with even the little resources that we have in that country. If a computer science professor is doing a research in clustered or grid computing and he is complaining about not having enough resources to perform a research, how about him putting up a Beowulf cluster with scraps from computer village and good old Linux OS?

I must confess to the person reading this that the knowledge and experience that I am using at work right now is a knowledge that I acquired while I was a student. It is easy for me to transfer that knowledge to any area of IT. I was trained on DOS, now I work on Linux and Unix. The transition was seamless and have even come to enjoy it more than Windows! One thing that I also have to say is that what you become after school is not a function of who taught you at school. It's not a function of being taught by a professor or a "Mister" (I wonder what that means). It's a function of who you are. Those people are not meant to be "all-knowing". There role is to guide your learning and answer your questions. That's another problem that we have in the Nigerian educational system. Our professors and "Misters" think their role is to exact their academic prowess by failing students. Well, I don't think that's what they should be doing. The government should institute a policy that will enable students too to evaluate their teachers. I can tell you that not all the "misters" that taught me knew so much about what they were teaching. In fact, most times, I get more confused after a lecture. Which is why at times, I prefer to skip some classes (little confession) because I am way ahead what the "mister" was going to teach. The "mister" is relying on solution from a lecture not to grade my work whereas I am giving him a practical approach which could be different from the book or lecture note solution. I can't tell you how many times I was bitten before I realize the truth. What's the point, what you become after school is not and will never be a function of what you were taught in school. It's more a function of who you are and what you can do with what you learnt in school.

I hope to some day retire from the industry to the classroom to teach after obtaining my Ph.D like HND-holder. The one and only place I would like that to happen is in Nigeria. I hope I will not be discriminated against by my academic colleagues too. If that happens, I will start a technology institute that will bring "real" people together to produce solutions that will affect our system. At this age in Nigeria, we should have our own home-made car. Someone attempted that recently but he was also sabotaged. We should have our own home made electronics. A lot of Nigerians are involved in the design and development of such things outside the country. I wonder why they can't do that within? Sabotage! As any one read the story of Jelani Aliyu, the guy that designed the GM next generation electric car? Has anyone heard about Emeagwali? Google this names and see what they are doing in diaspora. They are like you and I. Jelani Aliyu is also a Polytechnic product. He had the opportunity to go to a University both chose a Polytechnic instead. He wanted practical experience and the Polytechnic system suits his purpose and vision. Look what he's doing today.

I rest my case for today.

This should not be a debatable topic if we actually understand the roles played by the two different institutions awarding these certificates. Bsc holders are the administrative cadre while HND holders are the technical staff, and each category of staff enjoys equal opportunities at their places of work. http://www.BizInfo1.com/?ix=4455

amata053:

This should not be a debatable topic if we actually understand the roles played by the two different institutions awarding these certificates. Bsc holders are the administrative cadre while HND holders are the technical staff, and each category of staff enjoys equal opportunities at their places of work. http://www.BizInfo1.com/?ix=4455

What difference does that make? Can the administrative cadre do all the work without the technical cadre? Everybody should be encouraged whether admin or technical staff. Equal opportunity should be given to all cadres.

amata053:

This should not be a debatable topic if we actually understand the roles played by the two different institutions awarding these certificates. Bsc holders are the administrative cadre while HND holders are the technical staff, and each category of staff enjoys equal opportunities at their places of work. http://www.BizInfo1.com/?ix=4455

RUBBISH if you could call HND administration technical we do not know what we are doing in this country

@HND-holder

Help me ask the guy o.

when will this discrimination against poly graduates end??

ishmael i think you are retard, is it about that number of courses or the quality of those that lectured those courses. how many professors taught you in school? you better wake up to reality and do what is neccesary to make you a fulfiled man. because i know that if ure not bothered u will not even reply to this post because you will be unruffled.

From Topic : Hnd Is Now B.tech Degree In All Nigerian Polytechnics at https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-138041.0.html  which relates to this topic I have the following to say.

There has indeed been an unfair treatment by employers who perceived HND as inferior to Bachelors Degree.
Here is my feeble attempt to guess a couple of reasons why
1. OND admission required less number of credits than Bachelors
2. A different exam PCE JAMB (easier than UME) is required for admission into ND.
3. Only a Pass in english is required for majority of OND courses.
4. Curriculum of Bachelors is different (not better) but of different objectives from OND and HND
5. University Libraries are better equipped than Polytechnics
6. Academic staff in universities include more Ph.D and Professors (i.e more academic achievement)
7. The Universities do lots of research and relate with academics internationally to keep up with developments
8. Polytechnic, as the name implies, are more technically oriented than universities
9. Universities have some courses that are research based like the education, medicine, agronomy, pharmacy which make the environment charged with too much efficos and grammar which is not required by Polytechnic.
10. Finally, employers know that HND holders have more technical skills than Bachelors holders but their needs in banks oil, telecoms and co, like teller jobs are not that technical and you dont have to be more than a school cert holder to do it, since the job market is full of both Bachelors and HND, first class, 2:1, 2:2, upper credit, lower credit. The companies who dont need your core skills either in engineering or accounting will prefer to employ a Bachelors holder who will speak with their customer, most times represent the company and when necessary take up a higher role in the management of the company. Every staff is a customer support staff. And by the nature of the academic orientation of students from universities, they are able to perform in these non skilled jobs and become professional at them. Speaking plenty grammar.

These 10 reasons are just my own opinion.

I hear now that universities and polytechnics will do the same exam (JAMB) next year and admission into ND will require five credits including maths and english.  That is one very good way of setting the standard to same and removing discrimination. What now needs to be done is for the Polytechnics to achieve the same academically charged environment as universities. Lecturers in poly should also achieve Ph.D and do research. And grounds will level. Disrcimination will be removed. Not only in the mind but also in the content of education delivered to students of poly.

I totally condemn the discrimination I have seen in my work place. I dont support it all. I have B.sc from Nigeria plus M.sc from UK and even B.Sc(Nigeria) is discriminated against compared with B.Sc(UK) even within Nigeria. We all suffer it because its a Nigerian problem.

I have HND IN civil eng. can FUTA admit into 300L

No but PGD

Mr Fox:

From Topic : Hnd Is Now B.tech Degree In All Nigerian Polytechnics at https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-138041.0.html which relates to this topic I have the following to say.

There has indeed been an unfair treatment by employers who perceived HND as inferior to Bachelors Degree.
Here is my feeble attempt to guess a couple of reasons why
1. OND admission required less number of credits than Bachelors
2. A different exam PCE JAMB (easier than UME) is required for admission into ND.
3. Only a Pass in english is required for majority of OND courses.
4. Curriculum of Bachelors is different (not better) but of different objectives from OND and HND
5. University Libraries are better equipped than Polytechnics
6. Academic staff in universities include more Ph.D and Professors (i.e more academic achievement)
7. The Universities do lots of research and relate with academics internationally to keep up with developments
8. Polytechnic, as the name implies, are more technically oriented than universities
9. Universities have some courses that are research based like the education, medicine, agronomy, pharmacy which make the environment charged with too much efficos and grammar which is not required by Polytechnic.
10. Finally, employers know that HND holders have more technical skills than Bachelors holders but their needs in banks oil, telecoms and co, like teller jobs are not that technical and you dont have to be more than a school cert holder to do it, since the job market is full of both Bachelors and HND, first class, 2:1, 2:2, upper credit, lower credit. The companies who dont need your core skills either in engineering or accounting will prefer to employ a Bachelors holder who will speak with their customer, most times represent the company and when necessary take up a higher role in the management of the company. Every staff is a customer support staff. And by the nature of the academic orientation of students from universities, they are able to perform in these non skilled jobs and become professional at them. Speaking plenty grammar.

These 10 reasons are just my own opinion.

I hear now that universities and polytechnics will do the same exam (JAMB) next year and admission into ND will require five credits including maths and english. That is one very good way of setting the standard to same and removing discrimination. What now needs to be done is for the Polytechnics to achieve the same academically charged environment as universities. Lecturers in poly should also achieve Ph.D and do research. And grounds will level. Disrcimination will be removed. Not only in the mind but also in the content of education delivered to students of poly.

I totally condemn the discrimination I have seen in my work place. I dont support it all. I have B.sc from Nigeria plus M.sc from UK and even B.Sc(Nigeria) is discriminated against compared with B.Sc(UK) even within Nigeria. We all suffer it because its a Nigerian problem.

thanks for this. let them keep deluding themselves.