coward!

Labour investigates discrimination against Poly graduates by banks
By Victor Ahuma-Young Posted to the Web: Wednesday, March 22, 2006

CONGRESS of Free Trade Unions of Nigeria (CFTU), a senior staff umbrella body that has the Association of Senior Staff of Banks, Insurance and other Financial Institutions (ASSBIFI) as one of its affiliates, has set up a committee to investigate alleged discrimination against graduates from Polytechnic, state universities and even some federal universities by employers of labour, especially the newly consolidated banks. At the end of the National Executive Council (NEC) of the body which recently took place in Kogi State, members of CFTU vowed to tackle any employer especially in the banking sector that is found to be involved in such unwholesome practice. The communique released at the end of the NEC meeting and signed by CFTU’s General Secretary, Comrade Didi Adodo, however adjudged the recently concluded re-capitalisation in the banking sector as a welcome innovation.

http://allafrica.com/stories/200603220073.html


Redesign Post-HND Programmes in Polytechnics - Leo Okereke, President, NATE

Vanguard (Lagos)INTERVIEWMarch 22, 2006Posted to the web March 22, 2006



]President Olusegun Obasanjo recently redressed the discrepancies between holders of the Higher National Diploma and University graduates in the country's civil service. Correspondent, Chidi Nkwopara, cornered the National President and Chairman of Council, Nigerian Association of Technologists in Engineering, Chief Leo N. Okereke, for his comments on the development. He is of the view that government should do more to save Polytechnic education in the country. Excerpts.

THERE has been this nagging discrepancy between Higher National Diploma certificate holders and Bachelors Degree holders in Nigeria. How did it come about and when did the policy begin?

"The ugly policy came about when some university graduates ganged up and formed an engineering association, the Nigerian Society of Engineers. They immediately started discriminating against graduates from the Polytechnics from being registered as engineers. This did not augur well for the Polytechnic graduates and they in turn decided to form a parallel association of their own. So, while the university graduates ganged up under an umbrella union, the polytechnic graduates equally ganged up and formed a division of their own. It was only in 1976 that the Corporate Affairs Commission (CAC) gave the Technologists their certificate of incorporation. Since then, they have been waging a war to be recognised and to be acknowledged. From 1976 to 2006 is about 30 years, a whole of 30-years struggle for the removal of man's inhumanity to man and for equal opportunities.

It is a most welcome development that President Olusegun Obasanjo has rescued us from this ugly position hoisted on polytechnic graduates by fellow citizens. We are really grateful that he has removed this bar. A class distinction was also created when Aristocrats designed the university curriculum to the detriment of the ones designed for the Colleges of Technology. This was designed to make the children of the elitist class to see themselves as superior to the less privileged. In an ideal society, everybody should be accorded his or her due respect, especially as there is dignity in labour, as I think there ought to be. There should be no bars, descriminations or restrictions in order to bring out the best in one's productivity, commitment and contributions. In fact, this would ultimately make for a very healthy competition."

Is there a specific difference in the curriculum content of universities and polytechnics?

"The polytechnic curriculum was at par with that of the university but as a result of this man-made discrimination, along the line, they started watering down the polytechnic curriculum because polytechnic graduates were becoming serious threat to university graduates. This was evidenced in industries and in practical work. They were more preferred than university graduates in these areas. So, from the 1980s, they started watering the curriculum down. But now, it is at par again and if you've observed, that is why up till now it is only the poly graduates and university graduates that are going for the National Youth Service Corps (NYSC)."

What efforts did the National Board for Technical Education (NBTE) make in changing the fortunes of polytechnic graduates?

"They have been putting up very concerted efforts. They have also tried to beef up the curriculum content in the nation's polytechnics. It is also the only recognised body that accredits polytechnic studies. Courses, programmes or any field of studies that is not accredited by NBTE is automatically dropped. Also, any polytechnic that is not accredited will be forced to close its doors to students. All the courses that are accredited are automatically recognised and it must be at par with that of the universities. Honestly, I think NBTE has been putting up a good fight for their products. They have been trying. When Council for the Regulation of Engineering in Nigeria (COREN) was established by Decree 57, it was made by only graduates of the university system. But when they saw that Nigerian Association of Technological Engineers (NATE) was putting up this fight for the past 30 years, they now decided to form an engineering family, whereby all shades of engineering graduates w ould be accomodated. We now have Nigerian Society of Engineers (NSE) and we have Nigerian Institute of Technologists in Engineering, which is our own. We have Nigerian Society of Engineering Technicians and we Nigerian Association of Engineering Craftmen. We also have Association of Consulting Engineers of Nigeria (ACEN). All these bodies make the engineering family thick and there is now peace and harmony in the engineering profession because everybody is accomodated and recognised. We have to also thank COREN for successfully midwifing this engineering family and making it to be what it is now by accomodating everybody. It is a very welcome development."

Is the Decree 57 to be amended in view of the current situation or are you urging government to amend it? How would it affect your members?

"We are now talking about amendment of the Nigerian Constitution. We believe that we have to send in a memorandum to the National Assembly so that the aspects of this Decree can also be amended to accommodate the HND graduates. That is why the President has told the Committee on Education in both the Senate and Federal House of Representatives to work out the modalities and bring the papers to him. Yes, there should be an amendment of the Decree so that everybody would be accomodated."

Which are the areas that are not favourable to NATE?





"The area which affected us most was the issue of not rising above grade level 14 for those in the public service. This is what Mr. President has graciously removed in a recent policy statement. If you remove the grade level 14 bar and everybody can now hit the skies, anybody can accept any nomenclature in life but the most important is the take-home pay. Somebody stopping you from reaching your goal is anachronistic. You have the same number of papers before you entered the university, the same number of credits before you entered the polytechnic. You again stay the same number of years in the university as in the polytechnic. Sometimes, more time is spent in some courses in the polytechnic and you successfully come out, only to be discriminated against. It is improper. It is satanic. It is a sin. We thank the President for boldly coming out to remove this man made bar. It is the take home that matters. Now, the Technologist can rise to the position of a director, grade leve l 17 in the Federal civil service and grade level 16 in the state civil service. In order words, technologists will no longer stop at Chief Technical Officers. People can now rise to the pinacle of their profession."

Are there areas in Nigeria's technical education that should be redesigned or refined?

"Yes. We would want the Federal government to refine or redesign the post-HND programmes in polytechnics, which was approved a long time ago but has sadly remained in the cooler. We are very confident that the President will one day resurrect this policy and give it the appropriate attention. The polytechnics should be running and awarding higher degrees up to the doctorate level. This same situation is obtainable in the United Kingdom and United States of America, from where Nigeria copied its samples, examples and patterns. The idea is to ensure that nobody stops only at the HND level. Again, no lecturer in the polytechnic system rises to the professorial rank. This is discriminatory and capable of generating serious brain drain. We want all the features that are obtainable in the universities to also feature in the polytechnics".

Are you satisfied with the curriculum content, level of funding and installation of the needed equipment in our polytechnics?

"The funding and equipment is above average but it can be improved upon. Over the years, government has been catering for these institutions, except now that some private organisations and individuals have started setting up private universities and polytechnics. It takes a lot of money to properly equip the engineering departments. My appeal is that government should help in equipping the public and private institutions. Government should seriously come into education because it is the bedrock of the nation's development. It has to increase the funding, the equipment and pay of the lecturers. The whole idea is to ensure that the products of these tertiary institutions would be comparable to those in foreign lands".

How do you feel now that the battle has been fought and won by NATE?

"Honestly, I feel elated. I feel fulfilled. I feel very happy particularly because I was elected National President of NATE only in November last year and January 6, 2006, Mr. President removed this bar. I feel very happy that God has used my tenure to bring about this change."

What promise are you making this nation on behalf of your Association?

"My promise is that the technological transfer has just begun."

Vanguard (Lagos)

OPINION
16 Mars 2006
Publié sur le web le 16 Mars 2006

Promise Adewusi


THE on-going debate on Polytechnic education and the circumstances of its graduates is a welcome one. For one, it has forced this vital sub-sector of our education system on to the front burner of national discourse. For another, it may, at the end, help rethink the purpose of poly education and bring about a much needed reshaping and refocusing of its curriculum and its philosophy.

It has bothered me for too long that holders of our polythechnic diplomas are made to play the second fiddle to university degree holders by employers. This is in spite of the fact that, on paper, the Higher National Diploma {HND} is said to be equivalent to a university first degree. But in practice what you find is that employers categorise the HND holders as middle level manpower and go ahead to discriminate against them in terms of job placements and remuneration. In the Public Service, for instance, while a university degree holder is designated as an Administrative Officer or other such nomenclature, a poly HND holder is designated an Executive or Technical officer, made to stagnate on level 13 as against a degree holder who can rise to the zenith of his career. The HND holder can hardly head a unit {no matter his experience} once a university degree holder is available.

Obviously, this cannot encourage or enhance productivity as the HND holder is wont to feel and often times does feel a sense of alienation instead of that of belonging. But then, how did we arrive at this sour point in spite of government's good intention of keeping the HND and First degree at par?

It is instructive to note that the entry qualifications into the polytechnics are usually lower than that for the universities. Whereas universities require a minimum of five credits, albeit got from several sittings, some polythechnics admit candidates with three or even lesser number of credits, and most times, also obtained from multiple sittings. Herein lies the dilemma of employers. As is often said in the IT world: "garbage in, garbage out" .The employer is then left in a quandary as to how to equate a HND obtained using an inferior entry qualification, with no attempt made to remedy the deficiency within the pendency of studentship in the poly, to a university degree obtained with a supposed higher entry qualification.

That brings us to the vexed issue of entry qualifications into our institutions of higher learning, be they polytechnics, colleges of education or universities. It is often said that higher education is not an all comers affair. Even though it is desired for all, there are those who by their circumscribed intellectual potentiality, are not well fitted for the process of higher education. This is an unalloyed truism, hard as it may seem. Any child well suited for higher education should be able to obtain five credits out of a possible nine in a singular sitting. It may not necessarily be at the first, or even second attempt, but should be from one sitting and not this "cut and paste" that has become synonymous with five credits from multiple sittings. If this was excused in the past when there was a paucity of qualified candidates for higher education, it cannot be rationalised now that there is a suffuse of qualified candidates within the context of available schools. Really, it is difficult to expect those who, otherwise are not cut out for higher education, specifically those who could not obtain their entry qualifications from a single sitting, not to cut corners when admitted. This is not suggesting that all those who obtain their entry qualifications in one sitting are "hot heads" while those who do not are "dudders" . But insisting on entry qualifications obtained from a singular sitting will be a convenient starting point for sifting the wheat from the chaff.





As for poly education, another issue of controversy is the quality of some of the teachers in some of the schools. It is not that the universities do not have their draw-backs in this regard. For instance, there are some so called lecturers in the universities who merely regurgitate lecture notes given to them by their own lecturers some twenty, or more, years ago without revising them and bringing them in tandem with current trends and advances in their particular disciplines. Such pretenders who are vitiating the quality of our university education do not have any business being in the university environment, if you ask me. But definitely, something has to be done in the area of training, retraining and exposure to modern research methodology of our poly teachers to improve employers' confidence in poly graduates.

Again, my understanding of the polytechnics is that they were set up to provide highly specialised training in some selected disciplines in technology with a view to exposing their students to more practical aspects of technology and equipping them with the necessary skills to kick-start our quest for technological emancipation and advancement. A situation where they now duplicate virtually all the courses, including in some cases the humanities, run by the universities without the necessary facilities to support such courses, leaves much to be desired and is bound to worry the employer.

The popular but erroneous belief that polythechnic education is meant for those students who are unable to get a placing in the universities, is also not helping the plight of poly graduates. Therefore, the admission requirements for entry into our polytechnics should be strengthened to bring them at par with those of the universities. This way, poly education, like " BATA" will be seen to be by choice rather than by frustration. Instead of lowering the entry qualification into the Ordinary National Diploma programmes, government should move to restructure and revitalise the Technical and Trade Schools/ Centres to train those candidates whose academic capabilities may not conveniently support polytechnic education. Such students will form the crop of the middle level manpower in the Labour market. Those who improve on their academic standing, can then go on to the polytechnics, if they so desire.

I believe government should as a matter of urgency do something about the issue of polytechnic graduate and their university counterparts.
I have worked in about 3 multi-nationals (NYSC inclusive) in the FMCG (fast moving consumer goods) the food industry to be precise and we have polytechnic graduates dominating with appropriate test conducted before moving into positions being held; this companies scramble to you because of the experience and after conducting interview, they don't think of looking back because of the rare brilliance shown during the interview. This is not to say my brothers and sisters from the university are not good but the disparity and discrimination is not suppose to be there in fact I applied to a foreign university for post graduate study and was told i had to go through undergraduate classes before admission because they know how Nigerians rate their polytechnic product and you can imagine me making enough money to sponsor myself through postgraduate studies abroad and it is due to one factor
1.) Almighty God is always there for me because i work in one of the largest Juice manufacturing company in Nigeria with many university graduates as my Subordinates not boosting about that but just writing some of the things God as done for me because of the many experiences i gained during my one year industrial training and my NYSC programme.

So my brothers and sisters; don't loose hope oooo!!! because as a polytechnic graduate you will definitely make it to the top if you remain focused

Just check this website out then you'll understand me well

http://www.aau.org/studyprogram/notpub/ugwomej.pdf#search=%22polytechnic%20education%20versus%20university%20education%20in%20nigeria%22

Some schools will give you a PGD, but it depends on your credit load sha. Some schools require atleast 120 credit units, so if you have not done up to 120 credits in ur HND you will be asked to do some undergraduate courses 1st to make up the 120 credit units b4 proceeding to do the PGD.

This case! we must settle it this year. The white paper on HND Vs Bsc will out soon. I shall ask Nairaland to publish it. Regards

From Daily Graphic GHANA

This how they settle their own
Polytechnic Education
(11/22/2005)


The country’s polytechnics have been given approval by the government to run Bachelor of Technology programmes to enable holders of the Higher National Diploma to undertake higher academic pursuits more readily.

It has not been easy upgrading facilities at the polytechnics to get to the level where they will have the competence to award degrees,in addition to the diploma certificates.

The focus of polytechnic and university education is not the same and cannot be the same or similar.

Whereas the content of programmes at the polytechnic level has a preponderance of practical training,the university curriculum is informed more by theory.

Unfortunately,however,in our attempt to re-engineer polytechnic education and make it diffused regionally,we fell into the temptation of comparing and equating the HND to bachelor degrees,to the extent that when some HND holders secured jobs and they were placed lower than their colleagues with first degrees,it resulted in nationwide strikes by polytechnic students.

Indeed,the Ghana National Union of Polytechnic Students resolved that it would stop at nothing until HND holders were placed and paid the same level of remuneration as their first degree counterparts from the universities.

Matters were not helped by the fact that the tendency in this country is that we see the first degree of the university as superior to any certificate from the polytechnic,when the rest of the world fully acknowledges the worth of the polytechnic student when it comes to skill training and performance.

But whatever the problems and difficulties,approval has been given to the polytechnics to offer first degree programmes,with the possibility of offering higher degrees in due course,depending on the development of faculty.

However,if the internal structures of the polytechnics are not improved upon,their students could still be disadvantaged.

One of the major frustrations confronting polytechnic students is the undue delay in the release of their examination results.

Presently,results of the final examinations of the universities are released before the students undergo national service.

Thus students who passed out of the universities in the last academic year have got to know their results and those who needed to resit in some subjects have done so.

On the other hand,the polytechnic students who have completed their national service are yet to know whether they were successful in their examinations or otherwise.

Therefore,if university and polytechnic students who completed their courses in the 2003/2004 academic year were to go into the job market,there is no way that polytechnic students whose results are not known could compete favourably with their university colleagues whose results have been published.

It is our hope that the polytechnics would look at ways to improve upon their efficiency in the management of examinations and release of results,such that the “underprivileged”polytechnic student would not be further disadvantaged in competing on the job market on the basis of time.

if thats the case let nigerian polytechnic students go on strike each time any bank or company discriminates against polytechnic graduates. In Ghana HND courses lasts for 3 years with intensive practical /industrial work while the Bsc courses lasts for 4 years. There is nothing like ND in Ghana. U do ur HND straight spending just 3 years unlike nigeria where you do ND 1st for 2 years followed by 1 year industrial trianing then 2 years HND which takes 5 years all together.While 4 years is required to run most Bsc courses, 5 years for BTech and BEng. Let nigerian polytechnic students borrow a leaf from their Ghanian counterparts. I really like the way they tackled the Bsc Vs HND issue.

The truth is that we have more university graduates in nigeria than polytechnic graduates. This whole thing started when the university graduates were no longer comfortable with the HND holders becos the HND holders were already showing outstanding performances in their various fields; and they felt that one day HND graduates will take over everything from them including administration, so they decided to start relegating and placing bars on HND holders so as to prevent them from taking over from them or dominating. Note that at that time out of every 100 graduate u see only 10 had HND (i.e. 10%) the rest were university degree graduates, and at that time polytechnics just started churning out HND graduates. HND started in nigeria around 1980 or so while we had Bsc graduate as far back as 1950's. So it was very easy for them to manipulate and relegate polytechnic graduates. They so polytechnic graduate as threat to their offices and positions. But today what is the result of all those arrangee?? Under-development especially in the Technical, Technological,Engineering and production sectors. My fellow brothers take it or leave it polytechnics were established to create/invent, tackle technological issues and look for solutions to Technological problems the universities and their curricula cannot solve.

If the Bsc graduates feel they are better than HND graduates theoritically, the HND graduates also feel they are better than the Bsc graduates practically.

Do they even know the theory again? ONly to settle the University lecturers

some of them are trying sha.

Yes but if it comes to praticals No show.

What they know I know but what I know how to do they can,t.

But come oo, why is it that most polytechnic lecturers are university graduates? Do you think they can give the polytechnic students the practical experience they need?? Is it that HND graduates cannot teach? Because from my little experience, you can only teach people something you know and can do well, not something you dont know. Its already affecting polytechnic graduaates because some of them if not most, were taught by uni graduates. I think its high time NBTE looked into that issue. Funny enough they employ HND holders as instructors in the polytechnic while Bsc holders are employed as lecturers. Charity begins at home oo. let the polytechnics stop discriminating their own products too . Pls HND-holder take note of this and help us pass it to NBTE, let them do something about it. Let them make it in such a way that, if you must lecture in the polytechnic you should have passed thru the poly system.

We have exhausted debate on the issue. Most Rectors in the past are University product as well as those in the NBTE board. I think we HND holders need to sit down now with all this and TAKE OVER power from all those who work in the polytechnic and never wish us well.

You both seem lost in a world of your own. Happy sailing!

:p

Guys i feel your concern about this inhuman and baseless discrimnation against the HND holders in the country, but i am not so disturbed about the issue because i believe it is because of the high unemployment rate that has made the supply of graduates higher than what the market demand.The discrimination now is not even against HND only but also against state universities graduates. you can see that in access bank where there is TEAM WORK BUT NO TEAM SALARY.
               I am proud to be a graduate of YABATECH because i am sure i can defend my result and i will work very hard to make sure i remain competetive with BSC holders by upgrading my pali. My advise to all HND holders is;do not fold your arms and look at those adverts, please apply to where you are relevant in all sectors of the economy and you will be given a chance. Another issue that has been mentiond is that of grade discrimination( 2.1/2.2), this has also characterised our recruitment criteria where graduates are also seen as priamary school students.

Nurenga, we are all proud HND holders . And as for employment, we will make sure very soon that only polytechnic graduates are allowed to teach in polytechnics and work in NBTE. How do you expect uni graduates to give polytechnic students the practical skills they need? Is it not when you know something that you will be able to impart it into others?? That is why these days you see lazy polytechnic graduates, they were all taught by university graduates.

please let us discuss things that could be realised and not those that seems like dreams, when federal govt says anything about tertiary education. they will never mention poly and you now expect them to replace the current lecturers.
I dont think the issue is the lecturers because they have done wonderful jobs by impacting the knowledge into us, even in yabatech some of our lecturers are our products and they are very good.the attension should be on the HND graduates about how they will compete in the market

get my point. University is a theoretical school while university is a practical school. How do you expect someone that knows the theory of computing for example to teach very well practical computing? I dont think its possible. You can only teach people something you know about and not what you dont know or cannot do. thats why i said govt should make it in such a way that you must have passed thru poly 1st b4 you can be allowed to lecture in the polytechnic. Polytechnics should churn out practical graduates.

As at the time I was to enter university, the minimum entry requirement into polytechnics was 4 credit and the university was 5 credit ( it might be different now) but that shows that the inputs into the two institution are not equal.
In the university I passed through 22 professors who are Icons in their field compared to my friend who went to a polytechnic and was thought by Misters and Engineers tell me how many professors are in all the Polytechnics put together I am sure they are not equal to the number of professors in any good university and employers of labour recognise this
You cant compare the best student in poly with the worst in the University definitely the poly would be better If you want to compare Take the best student in Yabatech,Kadpoly or IMT or Ibadanpoly and compare them to the best students in Ife, UI, Unilag, UNN or ABU and tell me the result when we were in secondary school the best students go to university and the ones below to Polytechnic

The basi rule of life is OUTPUT=INPUT+ADDITION
OUTPUT= 4 O'LEVEL CREDIT AGAINST 5 O'LEVEL CREDIT+ MISTERS AND ENGINEERS AGAINST PROFESSORS

CAN THE OUTPUTS BE EQUAL? TRY AND BE FAIR

SOLUTION : Take Direct Entry form!!!!!!!

Look at this one, you want to use professors and input to judge. Which professors are you talking about?? is it the political professors we have in nigeria today that know nothing about advancements in science & technology?? All they have in their brains has to do with 1960's and 1970's. They are not better than non-professors, i totally disagree with you. I have seen a professor in computer science that could not write a working C++ and Java program and yet he is a professor in computer science, whereas even people with ND in computer science will write working programs with those languages. The professor's excuse was that he has never tried learning those languages because they were not available during his time. Keep that one aside i beg. And secondly, if you want to use input to judge why is that those with 8 or 9 distinctions that go into the university dont always graduate with 1st class?? Some people with C6 in 5 o'level subjects even beat them hands down with their distinctions. It will be very naive of you to believe that your entry qualification (input) determines your graduating grade (output) in this case. That law of gabbage in gabbage out does not hold here. Look for something better and tell us jo.

Fellow Nairalanders,

I have been following this discussion with some interest for some time now and I see the way we don't understand ourselves and issues involved sometimes.  I understand that as human beings, we tend to defend ourselves most times.  That is why we continue to argue about which is better between HND and Bsc with each category defending itself.  This is understandable, but quite unnecessary if we recognise each system for what it is, in an ideal situation.

In life, distinctions exist between practicalists and theorists, specialists and generalists, pragmatists and idealists, technologists and engineers and so on.  These are two streams of workforce that are required in every system, without one being inferior to the other in terms of quality and productivity.  In fact, both are necessary for any system to work.

While the theorists are the minds that think out the ideas and bring it from abstract to design stage, the practicalists work on the implemetation side.  Is one better than the other?  NO!  Without the design, there can't be the device.  One needs the other.  While the specialists focus on depth, the generalists are broad.  Is one better than the other?  NO!  Both are required for completeness.

Both theories and practicals are required which is where people like ismael and dayokanu are not quite right.  The focuses of polytechnic and university education are quite different.  While the polytechnic strives to raise practical-oriented graduates that have hands-on approach, and technical depth in a specific area, the university on the other hand focuses on theoretically sound and broad graduates that can manage processes, challenge ideas and change systems.  That is why a polytechnic graduate makes a better specialist and a university graduate a better manager, all things being equal!

Check the misters and the engineers who teach in the polytechnics and you can't fault them as far as hands-on practical experince is concerned.  But to talk ill of professors and stop short of calling them dunces is uninformed.  While a professor of Computer Science may not be able to write programs in C++ or Java languages, except that is his area of specialty, he is more interested in the languge structure, the algorithms that transcends any particular language!  While your ND holder writes the programs, the professor designs the compilers that interprete the programs.  That is why they are into researches, and why any great establishment worth it's name in the world still goes back to the academia, or engage them, in their research and development.  I hope I'm making my point.

I will come back later on this topic.

dayokanu:

As at the time I was to enter university, the minimum entry requirement into polytechnics was 4 credit and the university was 5 credit ( it might be different now) but that shows that the inputs into the two institution are not equal.
In the university I passed through 22 professors who are Icons in their field compared to my friend who went to a polytechnic and was thought by Misters and Engineers tell me how many professors are in all the Polytechnics put together I am sure they are not equal to the number of professors in any good university and employers of labour recognise this
You can't compare the best student in poly with the worst in the University definitely the poly would be better If you want to compare Take the best student in Yabatech,Kadpoly or IMT or Ibadanpoly and compare them to the best students in Ife, UI, Unilag, UNN or ABU and tell me the result when we were in secondary school the best students go to university and the ones below to Polytechnic

The basi rule of life is OUTPUT=INPUT+ADDITION
OUTPUT= 4 O'LEVEL CREDIT AGAINST 5 O'LEVEL CREDIT+ MISTERS AND ENGINEERS AGAINST PROFESSORS

CAN THE OUTPUTS BE EQUAL? TRY AND BE FAIR

SOLUTION : Take Direct Entry form!!!!!!!

You are not saying the truth, you can not go for HND with four credit.

Hnd require your work experience at least one year, then National Diploma plus at least 4 credits

OND is 4 credit not HND.

I will love the challenge practically, to hell with all the rubbish theories that lead us to unemployment

Yes, you have made good points. But I will not agree with you that professors are better than people who are not professors. Is Bill Gates a professor?? NO, but he has written algorithms as well as designed compilers and operating systems. Infact he designed and developed the most widely used operating system in the world today Microsoft windows, and yet he has no Bsc nor PHD in computer science from any college or university.
The problem is with the university graduates; they always believe they are better than polytechnic graduates, and that they cannot have anything in common; so help us tell them or else we will always tell them that they and their professors are not better than ND holders, which incidentally is true because there are so many things the professors cannot do that the ND holder can do (atleast some ND holders can write functional C++ and Java programs which some professors in computer science cannot do). As long as they claim superiority over polytechnics we will make sure we prove them wrong and bring them out. Imagine someone using entry requirements to judge quality. What a naive statement!! Is it possible?? If it's possible then people with distinctions in their o’level subjects should always graduate with distinction or first class too. Enough is enough, no Bsc holder should say that he/she is better than HND holders, else they will not find rest. Let them ask themselves if their right eyes are better than their left eyes. Let's prove ourselves on neutral ground academically and practically.

Ishmael,

If you read my post well, you will se the use of "in an ideal situation" and "all things being equal". This is because in all ideal situation, where things work the way they are supposed to, you don't find people discriminating one against the other. They know the usefulness of the two streams. It is so unfortunate that our educational system in Nigeria has deteriorated so much that graduates of both systems cannot measure up to standards again- not just the polytechnics, but the universities. That is a topic for another day.

Your disagreement that professors are not better than non-professors amuses me. Professors earn and deserve their titles. These are people that have reached the pinnacle of their academic careers. Some get the title 20 years after their doctorates! To say they no know nothing is unfair to them.

Bill Gates, as far as I know, is not a total dunce. You may care to find out a little about him. He was exceptionally brilliant and smarter than most of his peers. He was studying Computer Scince at the best university in the world -Harvard- before deciding to leave school in 3rd year so he could concentrate on business and software development (source: http://www.microsoft.com/billgates/bio.asp, http://ei.cs.vt.edu/~history/Gates.Mirick.html). Moreover, he was not a loner. He employed the best of Harvard graduates. The success is there for all to see!

Analytical, i am not completely saying that professors are not well-knowledged; what i am saying is that some professors in nigeria are not worthy to be called professors. Some of them got there by virtue of academic politics and not by virtue of academic excellence. But in an ideal situation as you,ve said professors are supposed to be better than every other person in the academics.

The fact remains that both Bill Gate and Galiliogalilio were never a degree holder, why killing HND then?

I wonder for nigeria and nigerians oo.

Ishmael you seem to have a preference for the extreme situation of a professor that cant write programs as a measurement of all professors
Definitely you cant compare students of Wole Soyinka ( a Professor at Ife) and Chike Obi (a professor UNN) and so many professors that are legends with those who study under Mister XYZ
I am sure the number of professors of Chemistry in UI is more than all the Nigerian Polytechnics together!!!

In the engineering profession The Engineers Univrersity graduates are the designers at the top and the Poly Grads because of the good knowledge of practicals are the ones who carry the designs out the prctical they are doing is on the brain work of one designer (University Graduate)

You mentioned Bill Gate dont forget that he was a university student never a polytechnic student an outstanding one too that chose to drop out to pursue a personal biz

You speak ill of professors when the pinnacle of academic achievement is being a Professor

Forget about Nigeria and look at the list of best school in the world top 1000 how many poly are there compared to University

and compare the graduates and the great men of academics most were in the University

hey pally it does nt matter, atleast POLYTECHNIC OF NAMIBIA ranks higher than all the universities in nigeria and most of the univesities in africa. I still stand by my word that university graduates are not better than polytechnic graduates. Stop all these about professors. Does a professor turn people into genius?? I expect all uni graduates to be geniuses becos they were tutored by professors. Rubbish!! A Professor in computer science that cannot write a functional C++ or Java program is of no use to the computing and IT world, whereas a Diploma holder in computer that can write out algorithms and programs in C++ and Java to solve real life problems is of significance to the computing and IT world.