Guy dont get it wrong the best schools in the world how many poly are in top 10,
In Africa how many are in top 10, In Nigeria if there is any rating how many are in top 10, you picked Polytechnic of Namibia is the school the best in Namibia?
All Uni grads are not geniuses even all Harvard grads cant be geniuses
Are all poly grads geniuses either definitely not if all uni grad and their lecturers cant write computer programs are you sure all poly grad and their lecturer can write the progs

The polytechnic of Na mibia is better than all Nigerian Uni agreed but remember we are comparing Nigerian University and Nigerian Poly not Namibia compare Namibia university with Namibia Poly ,American Uni with Poly and tell me which one comes on top

Can you compare someone thought by Wole Soyinka or Chike Obi to someone taught by Mr XYZ or tell me any notable poly lecturer or are you telling me that the quality of your teacher does not affect the product?

The POLYTECHNICS are in a world of their own. Is not a University and everybody need not go university before making a contribution,we are not expected to do the same work, Why stealing the work of polytechnic graduate. You that were students of Political professors, what contribution have you made to Knowledge. Nigeria do not need arrogants

All,

Since we are using the Computer Science discipline as an example, I hope you know there is much more to the field than programming, Ishmael?  Computer Science is not programming.  Programming is just a subset of Computer Science.  I maintain that a Prof of Computer Science has so much to devote his time to in the field than writing C++ codes!  He can leave that to his students and graduate assistants, which is the practice worlwide.

For instance, in the life-cycle of software development, coding (i.e. programming) which is where a language comes in is just a step (about the 4th step!).  A lot happens before and after.  A Prof who is a system analyst for example, has no business writing codes.  He will leave that to the programmers.  And that is just talking about software development alone.  Where do you place networking, data structures, system architecture, hardware, embedded systems etc?

Professors concentrate on principles, paradigms, methodologies, systems and underlying fundamentals.  That is why they don't teach a particular language in most universities of the world.  Check out their curricula.  What you will see are courses like High Level Languages, Low level Languages etc in which they may introduce the students to one language as an instance of the course and leave the rest for the students to study- that is why you are a student!

The reason for this is not far-fetched.  A university is not a certification centre where they teach a particular narrow subject proprietary to a certain company.  The languages do change from time to time but principles don't change so often.  Yesterday it was COBOL, today it is Java, tomorrow, it will be something else.  The university, or shall I say education generally, is supposed to equip you to cope with challenges and dynamics of life.  I will rather be taught principles of programming that will allow me to adapt quickly to any new language than be taught C++ language.

To answer Hnd-holder , the fact that Bill Gate and Galiliogalili were not degree holders does not diminish the importance of degrees.  They just happen to be the exceptions rather than the rule.  Every now and then geniuses and exceptionally brilliant individuals do show up.  But they are the exceptions.  I happens maybe once in a generation.  How many, Isaac Newtons, Thomas Eddisons and even Bill Gates have we seen?  They don't come all the time.  So let's use everyday people.

I have spoken.

Analytical, you have spoken. I must confess I'm enjoying this debate with you. Yes, programming is just one aspect of computer science, agreed. So you have to agree with me too that university graduates and professors cannot know and do everything, but the way you people talk about professors potray them as people who know everything in this world. There are some things that are better done by polytechnic graduates. My point is this; university graduates and their professors cannot know or do everything better than polytechnic graduates. There are some things that are better left for the polytechnic graduates to handle. You have your own role to play as an engineer while the engineering technologist has his own role to play in any engineering project. And no engineering project can be done without technicians and technologist. Let me ask you one question; can you do the job of an engineering Technologist??

Silsoe was a polytechnic in UK it has proffessors, So many Polytechnic universities in US, I was a student of Prof Obiako at Federal Polytechnic Akure. Prof Ademosun was also my lecturer at another Polytechnic, People like you made the polytechnic unattractive for research and student that everybody ran then we were left with very Good misters, and so many misters today in the university as lecturer, Some department manage to have one PhD holder as visiting lecturer. Stop defending LIES man. We have professors of Engineering Technology diffrent from prof. of Engineering in overseas university, Ignorants on educational matters and societal robbots I salute you.

People should not forget that external moderators of very high status do carry out verifications of exams and project defense in the polytechnic.
At university of Ibadan same to other universities, most of the courses are thought by Master degree holders on behave of the lecturers who may even be prof.

We were in the universities too we know what we are talking about, the OND is like a 200 level course with one year practicals then 2 years of advance for the HND. Some HND were actually obtained from universities
Most prof. are reserved for Masters students and PhD student not for under graduates

That you went through university is not a sign of success.
All Nigerian rulers ever known never had University degree. Some in university got there through back doors Why are you afraid of HND holders please give us a chance as we do not have the same mandate in the economic development of Nigeria, leave us to play our own role and stop discouraging us as we face our own world.

HAHAHAHAHA, HND-holder you go kill me with laugh here. But that is the truth sha oo; i 4got to tell analytical that most professors and Doctors lecture post graduate students and not under graduates. Even in the polytechnic too we had professors who were also our lecturers. Dr. Asiribo (now professor Asiribo) in the Dept of Statistics, uni agric abeokuta was my lecturer in the polytechnic; he took us Design and Analysis of Experiment and Non-parametric statistical techniques in our 300 and 400 levels (HND I and II). All this professors and Doctors you talk about also lecture or teach in the polytechnics too. Funny enough some polytechnic products that have MSc and PHd now also teach in the universities as well. But really o, why is it that university graduates are always afraid and never comfortable each time they see polytechnic HND holders around them?? They always think we want to take over their jobs from them.

That is how they will not guide their mouth unill we expose them that they got to university because they can cheat in UME JAMB EXAMS.

Not that they are better in anyway. I challenge those in engineering to let me know what is CAMBER,Castor etc to start with, they will never know unless the search computers.

At no point have I said that university graduates and professors know and can do everything in this world.  If you follow my reasoning well in the earlier posts you will agree with me.  I have said both polytechnic and university products have their place in any system, without one being inferior to the other, if we properly understand the place of each.

Yes, there are some things that are better done by polytechnic graduates by virtue of their trainings and there are things that university graduates are better placed to handle.  Refer to my ealier posts.  What any tertiary education should give you is to free your mind and equip you.  Any graduate should be able to develop him/herself.  The degree is not an end in itself.

Permit me to use my own example here.  I happen to be a product of two of the best of both systems here in Nigeria.  So I can say I'm talking from experience.  I have ND in Computer Science from The Polytechnic of Ibadan and a Bsc in Computer Engineering from O.A.U. Ife.  We entered straight into Computer Science courses from the year 1 of my ND program.  I used to teach year 3 and 4 students of university programming.  As far as the field was concerned at my level, I was good (I don't mean to sound proud here, but I had a Distinction).  But when I entered OAU with my ND (direct entry into 200 level) I found a new world entirely!

I almost didn't cope initially (thank God I eventually made 2:1).  I discovered the two systems were quite different.  While my lecturers in the polytechnic were actually teaching and[i] supervising [/i] , with a practical approach, the ones in OAU were lecturing and leaving me to do the studying.  Furthermore, while I was already programming in COBOL, BASIC, FORTRAN and C with ND, I had to do all sorts of courses in so many departments both in Faculty of Technology and others like Law, Admin etc in OAU.  I had a culture shock, having to cope with so many courses I thought were irrelevant!  Here lies the difference.  These all add up to making the university graduate more rounded and broad, e.g. as engineers or professionals, while the poly graduate more specific, e.g as technologists.  Both are required in the workplace.  It has made me easy to work with geologists, surveyors, mechanical, electrical, civil engineers etc and to better interface with them on the job.

I rest my case here.

With your ND you are given what you should know. The rest left for the HND class. Do not compared OND with BSc but HND and BSC. I was using my own HND notes at Masters and I had 4.59 with hich I moved to PhD then.

Enginering Technology is a degree course in Uk,US, CANADA and South Africa

The NBTE was forced to add Technology to all courses ran in the Polytechnic before we took their case UP. FUTA still run technology courses same to LADOkE

Hey, Analytical i'm enjoying you. So you actually started from poly too? Why did you not do HND? In the polytechnics we did borrowed courses from other departments too. Students in accountancy and bus admin, public admin, marketing etc. do biology, physics and chemistry as part of their course. Science and engineering students do economics, government, psychology, international relations, history of africa and so on. Dont you think all these also broaden the minds of polytechnic students?? you were a good polytechnic ND student i believe, so coping in the university would not have been a problem to you.

He must be running away from discriminations, No discriminations for OND only HND ahhh!

@dayokan
you made a very brilliant point i acknowledge.

the simple truth is that the policies formulated have given d B.sc graduates edge and have made them see the polytechnic graduates as inferior to them.Even when Wole Soyinka teach, have d students turned as good as him in those reasonings.

If there were no bad policies, they wouldnt have been such debates. would you tell me you dont have friends that are HND graduates that you strongly respect.
i have got dissapointed in many occassions i encountered d b.sc graduates. i have seen briliant students who couldnt cope in some polytechnics that got transfered to the uni after ND and came out with 2.1
i have encountered both institutions and i remark that even though the uni curriculum is more theory and reasoning exposed, the poly education is harder to cope with.

But na wa oo, so becos professor Wole soyinka teach you english that means to say you go sabi english pass oyibo people sef. Good talk. So if professor chike obi teach you mathematics you go sabi maths pass every other person on earth?? So where people wey soyinka teach english and chike obi teach maths dey now?? Why we no dey hear about them?? Pally you are being naive and talking from a myopic direction.

I thought I had rested my case, but you guys made me come back.

I did not compare OND with Bsc.  Please read between the lines.  I was comparing the approach of both the polytechnic and the university.  If you read me well, I said with what I knew as OND holder, I was teaching undergraduates in the university some programming lessons.  I was not even in the university then!

I did borrow some courses from other departments too in my ND days, but you can't compare the two.  In a semester in my year 2, I could remember I only did 2 courses that are computer-related, out of about 9 courses.  You get what I mean?  All I was doing was borrowing courses (both core and electives) from civil, mechanical, electrical engineering fields and many more from other fields (though, as I progressed, I did more of my field).  Remember, as I said, education should broaden your mind.  But you still have some university graduates that cannot even express themselves.

I don't condemn polytechnics nor its HND programme.  I will tell you why I did not go for HND.  I wasn't running away from any discrimination.  During my ND, I found out the concentration was more on software.  It is understandable because the course was Computer Science.  But I wanted something more balanced (both hardware and software), that will make me more of a complete computer professional, which even HND wouldn't have given me, in my case.  That was why I opted for Computer Engineering in the university (OAU had other options of Computer Science with Economics & Computer Science with Mathematics).  Another reason was the beauty of OAU.  I had nursed the ambition of studying there right from secondary school, since my first visit there.  You can't go to OAU and not fall in love with that place.  Oh Great Ife!  Don't let me go off point here by my feeling of nostalgia!!!

Talking about respect, I had a friend who was my coursemate in ND and also had a Distinction.  There was nothing I didn't do to influence his decision of going for HND.  He was adamant.  He opted to do HND instead of going to University.  He was more practical-oriented while I was more on the design side.  Did I respect him?  Oh yes and I still do!  He was a very brilliant chap.

Has anyone considered why they call them poly[b]technic[/b] and [b]univers[/b]ity?  Note my emphasis on the technicality and the universality.

Cheers.

In the past HND mechanical engineering contains all, but now after ND the HND contains options
Auto mobile
Plant
Production
Samething with computer this we complained to UNESCO, It was deliberate to bring HND down it was not like that before. What we had during our HND is quite diffrent from that of today. We are now matured we are ready to fight it out.

That is why the old HND engineering was registerable by COREN direct as Engineer while the New ones from 1983 must do PGD refresher courses to be full engineer.It was engineering technology course in computer that the polytechnics were allowed to offer. It took us time to convice the NBTE of the Dangers involved. Nigerian created all the problem. The society must leave with the problem they created so that we can move on.

@analytical nice talk dude, do u also agree that career is very dynamic? ur friend who is more techie can overtime during his ambition combine techie and design together. there is no knowledge that cannot be gained at any stage if your flexible and interested.

the problem is, if your not given a chance, how do you improve.

how would d HND holder whos not given a chance to apply for a job improve his career.

Now, the banks would rather employ an engineer with 2.2 instead of a business graduate with HND upper credit. does it make sense.

i do not have to compare the b.sc and HND cuzz theres no need for that. the issue is are you good? can you deliver? infact there are people who didnt attend higher institution that does better that some who went to d university.

knowledge and theory is infinite.

HND grads should be given an even playing ground for employment.

when i go through the assigments that my youger ones in the university final year has written i just laugh cuzz the office environment is far far more than that.

HH, of course I'm with you. Career is very dynamic. That is why what you studied in school does not necessarily transform to what you do eventually. I have seen Engineers ending up as bankers, mass communication graduates ending up as designers, geologists doing IT etc.

I have discovered that education is not and end in itself. Rather, it is a means to an end. In fact, it is your starting point. It is to give you a head-start over the uneducated and broaden your horizon so you can venture into any area of interest and still make progress. It is also not static. You only stop learning when you are 6 feet below. As long as you are still alive, there is always an opportunity for improvement in the school of life.

Cheers.

thanks dude, keep it up

Analytical and HH, you guys are rational, and i love chatting with people like you. I will not forget to hail my bros, HND-holder, who is really making this forum lively. Cheers!!!

I love you all for your understanding and standing up to help less privileged you know HND is the poor man son hope. The bigmen can afford 500,000 naira per semester.

thank u ishmael

hello guys
           I think you have personalised this issue.please take it easy because nobody seems to be listening

nurenga:

hello guys
I think you have personalised this issue.please take it easy because nobody seems to be listening

pally we are not personalising issues o, we are only saying the truth.

nurenga:

hello guys
I think you have personalised this issue.please take it easy because nobody seems to be listening

TAke side now on the issue B. Sc. vs HND, is the case settled or what can you do to settle the case .

It will soon be settled; let national assembly finish make we see.

Do you think they will pass the law? They can stop the bill o what do you think. Please let all HND holder move back to school so as to send all this people from getting all jobs.

Lets relax and see what will happen.

We need to make a move o

Where do we start from? Anyway we need people like you to help us initiate the move, then we will give you the necessary support.