tonychristopher:


What then do they speak in asaba environs ..maybe enuani

And you also say "Oho ngu" like people from Anaedo clan.

bigfrancis21:


Thanks.

Bigfrancis21, I have sent you the preview of the transcript to review on Whatsapp.

DARKLIGHT:



Bigfrancis21, I have sent you the preview of the transcript to review on Whatsapp.

I saw it. I'll respond to you soon.

bigfrancis21:


I saw it. I'll respond to you soon.

Ok, boss.

And I am yet to get it

OdenigboAroli:


Asaba dialect plus infusion from neighboring towns and Anambra.

Malawian:

and we use "ANI".

you use ani too?,thats good soon odenigboaroli will come and tell you how ur town dont speak ''original idenmili dialect'' lolz

Ani and Ana are used interchangeably in Ogidi. One of the nine villages of Ogidi is called Ogidi-Ani, so I guess Ani is the older version.

According to the most recent linguistic work on proto-Igbo reconstruction that I could find, the proto-Igbo approximation for land is alia. So, in that respect, it would seem that neither ana nor ani can lay any claim to antiquity or ancientness over the other. At least, not in the grand scheme of things.

If anything, it can likely be stated that some communities may have developed ana and then later on adopted ani through contact and vice versa. So, you all can give this tussle a rest.

pazienza:
Ani and Ana are used interchangeably in Ogidi. One of the nine villages of Ogidi is called Ogidi-Ani, so I guess Ani is the older version.

for me, ani means "land", while ana could be used for "under/below"

ChinenyeN:
According to the most recent linguistic work on proto-Igbo reconstruction that I could find, the proto-Igbo approximation for land is alia. So, in that respect, it would seem that neither ana nor ani can lay any claim to antiquity or ancientness over the other. At least, not in the grand scheme of things.

If anything, it can likely be stated that some communities may have developed ana and then later on adopted ani through contact and vice versa. So, you all can give this tussle a rest.

alia?? Or you mean 'ala'?

I am not sure anyone can say for sure which amongst ana, ani, ala, ali, eli, came first. All are mere dialectical variations of each other.

My people, Enugwu-Ukwu say 'ana'. My both parents say 'ana' as well.

And then we have, 'odin ani'

ChinenyeN:
According to the most recent linguistic work on proto-Igbo reconstruction that I could find, the proto-Igbo approximation for land is alia. So, in that respect, it would seem that neither ana nor ani can lay any claim to antiquity or ancientness over the other. At least, not in the grand scheme of things.

If anything, it can likely be stated that some communities may have developed ana and then later on adopted ani through contact and vice versa. So, you all can give this tussle a rest.

Roger Blench's reconstruction?

tonychristopher:


Onye bu usu

Pls behave yourself young woman ..we do not call names here

Loosen up and enjoy a joke when u see one. Understand usu in the context it was used, was never meant to be derogatory!
You asked where do u classify them, usu here meant neither isoko nor igbo. Don't see trouble where there's none

bigfrancis21:
alia?? Or you mean 'ala'?

Nope. Not ala, but alia. In actuality, it was approximated as being more along the lines of ẹlịa with evidence of nasalization. There is also ẹlịe as a possible reconstruction, which was approximated by comparing outside (non-Igbo) cognates. It surprised me too, at first, but after a while I began to understand it. I simply wrote it as alia, because it was orthographically convenient.

Radoillo:
Roger Blench's reconstruction?

No, Roger Blench still hasn't published a reconstruction, but did publish the manuscript (i.e. not officially completed) for a comparative word list which includes proto-Igboid approximations. The reconstruction that I'm referring to was done by one of Kay Williamson's PhD students, Chinyere Ohiri-Aniche. I actually found both manuscripts (if you remember that I referred to them a while back and said I would go digging for them). I had forgotten that I found them until the ana/ani discussion prompted my memory.

I'll upload them within the next 24 hours. It should prompt an interesting discussion here in the culture section, if anyone is willing.

ChinenyeN:

Nope. Not ala, but alia. In actuality, it was approximated as being more along the lines of ẹlịa with evidence of nasalization. There is also ẹlịe as a possible reconstruction, which was approximated by comparing outside (non-Igbo) cognates. It surprised me too, at first, but after a while I began to understand it. I simply wrote it as alia, because it was orthographically convenient.


No, Roger Blench still hasn't published a reconstruction, but did publish the manuscript (i.e. not officially completed) for a comparative word list which includes proto-Igboid approximations. The reconstruction that I'm referring to was done by one of Kay Williamson's PhD students, Chinyere Ohiri-Aniche. I actually found both manuscripts (if you remember that I referred to them a while back and said I would go digging for them). I had forgotten that I found them until the ana/ani discussion prompted my memory.

I'll upload them within the next 24 hours. It should prompt an interesting discussion here in the culture section, if anyone is willing.

Okay, please do. Being a non-linguist, I feel super-awkward (even arrogant and stupid) having to disagree with some of these guys' conclusions on proto-Igbo words.

Roger Blench, for instance, argued that proto-Igbo for leopard was agui. His argument was that since leopard in Ogba was agi, and agu in many of the remaining lects, the proto-Igbo word must have contained both i and u at the end - hence, agui. Now, I don't understand his argument for why both sounds must have been present in proto-Igbo, instead of one sound replacing the other in some of the lects at some point during the evolution of the Igbo 'language'.

(Personally, I had thought that proto-igbo for leopard would be a word like egu or possibly eku.)

Now, coming to alia, I immediately sense that Ohiri-Aniche must have used a similar argument to support that reconstruction. That is, the i in ali/ani and the a in ala/ana suggested to her that both the i sound and the a sound must have been present at the end of the proto-Igbo - hence alia.

I like that she has an alternative reconstruction that takes into consideration non-Igbo cognates. Personally, I have always felt that these non-Igbo relatives (Edoid and Yoruba languages, most importantly; but also Idoma and Nupe) and Ekpeye must be taken into consideration by scholars attempting to reconstruct proto-Igbo words. Taking these relatives (and Ekpeye) into consideration, I had long thought proto-Igbo for 'earth' would sound close to ale.

This is just me voicing out my thoughts. They are the professionals in this; I'm not.

soonest:

Loosen up and enjoy a joke when u see one. Understand usu in the context it was used, was never meant to be derogatory!
You asked where do u classify them, usu here meant neither isoko nor igbo. Don't see trouble where there's none

i understand but they might not find it funny u know

Radoillo, I partly feel what you feel about the awkwardness, since we did not major in linguistics or work as professionals in that field. However, I still feel that we are in a real position to address the reconstructions, both as active speakers and as learned individuals with a fundamental understanding of linguistics (at least, for those to whom the statement applies). The justification for agui doesn't make much sense to me. My reasoning for the statement would take a few paragraphs, so I won't explain it now.

As for Ohiri-Aniche, I suspect you may be correct. If I am to be honest though, my line of thought is similar to yours in that I would have expected the proto-Igbo equivalent to have been similar to ale.

Anyway, I've opened up a new topic for the discussion, just so we (ourselves and anyone else interested) can have a clean discussion without the baggage of any previous topics. The manuscripts aren't part of the initial post, but I will post them a few hours from now.

ChinenyeN:
Radoillo, I partly feel what you feel about the awkwardness, since we did not major in linguistics or work as professionals in that field. However, I still feel that we are in a real position to address the reconstructions, both as active speakers and as learned individuals with a fundamental understanding of linguistics (at least, for those to whom the statement applies). The justification for agui doesn't make much sense to me. My reasoning for the statement would take a few paragraphs, so I won't explain it now.

As for Ohiri-Aniche, I suspect you may be correct. If I am to be honest though, my line of thought is similar to yours in that I would have expected the proto-Igbo equivalent to have been similar to ale.

Anyway, I've opened up a new topic for the discussion, just so we (ourselves and anyone else interested) can have a clean discussion without the baggage of any previous topics. The manuscripts aren't part of the initial post, but I will post them a few hours from now.

Odi Great...

RapLawd:
Odi Great...

Bata la threadi (https://www.nairaland.com/2362388/finally-igbo-languages-proto-igbo-reconstructions), soro anyi.

[quote author=emmysoftyou post=33029188]yu can say it again
Hausa is number one it has speakers in Ghana,Cameroon,equitarial guinea etc
Yoruba is second, it has speakers in nigeria, Ghana,Togo,Benin,Brazil and Cuba etc.
igbo is the third, it has speakers in Nigeria, Cameroon,equitarial guinea .


while there are Igbo's in equitarial guinea and cameroon there are not indigenous unlike Yoruba and Hausa's in their respective countries. Hausa is the second most populous and wide spread language in Africa, Yoruba is third. Yoruba is the third most known african ethnic groups world wide after Zulu and swahili

sonnie10:
Isuama is an Igbo dialect spoken in by the emacipated slaves from Igbo Origin in Sierra Leone...

Lets know the part of Igbo land where they are currently found

Isuama in Pre-Colonial Era
Isuama was the dialect spoken by the emancipated slaves of Igbo origin in Freetown and Fernando Po in 1800's. It was from this dialect that the first Igbo book titled 'Isoma-Ibo primer was written in 1859 by Bishop Crowther. The Isoama-Ibo became the official dialect used by the early missionaries for Christianization activities in Igbo interior. But in the cause of time it gave way to Union-Ibo, which metamorphosed into Central-Ibo, and then to a generally accepted form termed Standard-Ibo (Igbo-Izugbe).

www.columbia.edu/itc/mealac/pritchett/00fwp/igbo/igbohistory.html

Isuama Dialect and Its Current Speakers
The Isuama dialect or sometimes called Orlu dialect (because many of its speakers are dominant in Imo West Senatorial Zone).
Isuama dialect of the Igbo language is spoken among the Igbo clans within the Isu(Njaba)/Nkwerre(Nwangele)/Orlu(Orsu)/Oru/Ideato, as well as in Mbaitoli, Ikeduru, Mbano, Onuimo, Okigwe, Obowo, axis of Imo state and also in Ihiala Nnewi South, Orumba, Aguata axis in Anambra state.
Many towns with the prefix Isu, Orsu and Nkwerre, located in the territories of present Abia, Enugu, Delta, Anambra, and Rivers are believed to be founded by people from the Isuama cluster. An offshoot of the Isu people in Anambra, The Isuaniocha are the founders of the town of Igbuzo in Delta state.

Isuama Influence on other Dialects
For decades, Igbo historians have propagated the theory/hypothesis of an "Igbo homeland" within the Isu complex. This, they did despite the wealth of traditions to the contrary. Sub-groups like Mbaise, Umuahia(Ohuhu), Owerri ( Oratta), Ngwa, Aro, Egbema, Etche, Ikwerre, Ndoki, are believed to have their roots from Orlu(Isu) axis. However, this theory is being countered by other oral versions of non-Isu origin from among these groups.

According to Historian Elizabeth Isichei the Orlu(Isu) and Awka belt constituted the abode of the early Igbo ancestors, from whence migratory to other areas took place. In the case of Orlu(Isu), many groups left as a result of population push, which affected agricultural activities to settle in non-habited areas west of the river cross and to the southern part close to the sea.

Chiwude, that last paragraph of yours is misinformation propagated by older Igbo historians, which we need to start correcting.

If you really wanted to be truthful, you could state that the period of migration which led to the establishment of the Isuama, brought the Isu ancestors into increasingly close contact with some of those aforementioned groups and also led to the establishment of some communities within those dialectal regions.

ChinenyeN:
Chiwude, that last paragraph of yours is misinformation propagated by older Igbo historians, which we need to start correcting.

If you really wanted to be truthful, you could state that the period of migration which led to the establishment of the Isuama, brought the Isu ancestors into increasingly close contact with some of those aforementioned groups and also led to the establishment of some communities within those dialectal regions.

Tell me which part is misinformation.

Well, Chiwude, I believe I invariably did, when I suggested how you might go about restating the paragraph. However, I guess it wouldn't hurt to be a bit more explicit. Simply put, for decades, Igbo historians have propagated the theory/hypothesis of an "Igbo homeland" within the Isu complex. This, they did despite the wealth of traditions to the contrary.

Now, I can't claim to speak for all the non-Isu groups you mentioned in your post. However, I am certain when say that the original inhabitants of the Mbaise-Ngwa-Umuahia axis are not recognized in traditions as having any ancestral connection with the Isu or the Orlu complex. In fact, traditions in this axis concerning Isu are rather explicit in noting the later arrival of the Isu into the area.

ChinenyeN:
Well, Chiwude, I believe I invariably did, when I suggested how you might go about restating the paragraph. However, I guess it wouldn't hurt to be a bit more explicit. Simply put, for decades, Igbo historians have propagated the theory/hypothesis of an "Igbo homeland" within the Isu complex. This, they did despite the wealth of traditions to the contrary.

Now, I can't claim to speak for all the non-Isu groups you mentioned in your post. However, I am certain when say that the original inhabitants of the Mbaise-Ngwa-Umuahia axis are not recognized in traditions as having any ancestral connection with the Isu or the Orlu complex. In fact, traditions in this axis concerning Isu are rather explicit in noting the later arrival of the Isu into the area.

Very helpful. Have made appropriate corrections.

Phut:

I am from Ugwuta 1. Amaeshi ... Obodo giro giri.
Mbona, nyirita'm. I ghotara ife'm kwuru?
BTW, I am female

Hi

@Tonychristopher You seem well versed in this dialect. Iv'e been looking online for this for a while. In my dialect we say;
O ngee?- instead of O gini(what is it)
Wee-wee(ee as in egg) vs ugbua(now)
Mmwaa vs Mma (mother)
Ni vs Gi(you)
Ele/Elenie/Elenia vs kedu( how are you?)
Agbasa vs?? ( main road/tarred Road)
Owu nne vs Owu eziokwu (that's the truth)
Mmowu vs Mmawu ( masquerade)
Ulo (o as in open) vs Ulo (o as in hot)
Suffixes like;
Imecha-gwele(imechala?)(have you finished?)
Agbali-gwelem( agbalialam( I have tried)


Eg. Mmwaa ni na akpo ni, O si ñi bia wee wee. (The ni and ñi is interchangeable)
Vs Mma gi na akpo gi, O si gi bia ugbua/kita.

It's from the Orsu clan, though we (me)are technically in Orlu Lga. I just found out from my dad the name of the dialect is "IGBO DI IGBO". IGBODI'IGBO.

Most people born and brought up there still speak it, but once you're out it might easily get diluted because the pace of the dialect is slower/ more laid back than other igbo dialects.

Does anyone have any info on igbodigbo? I'll really appreciate It.

stynhaq:




Very Myopic. Count out Delta from your rubbish Igbo ideology. Ukwuani is an Independent Language Spoken by the Ndokwas so is Ika and Aniocha. There is no correlation.

aniocha is an Igbo word
ukwuani, an igbo word
ndokwa, an igbo word. They are part of the greater Igbo nation. Language,culture and art with religion a paramount criteria. Nigerian politics no go take people anywhere

sosoella:
@Tonychristopher You seem well versed in this dialect. Iv'e been looking online for this for a while. In my dialect we say;
O ngee?- instead of O gini(what is it)
Wee-wee(ee as in egg) vs ugbua(now)
Mmwaa vs Mma (mother)
Ni vs Gi(you)
Ele/Elenie/Elenia vs kedu( how are you?)
Agbasa vs?? ( main road/tarred Road)
Owu nne vs Owu eziokwu (that's the truth)
Mmowu vs Mmawu ( masquerade)
Ulo (o as in open) vs Ulo (o as in hot)
Suffixes like;
Imecha-gwele(imechala?)(have you finished?)
Agbali-gwelem( agbalialam( I have tried)


Eg. Mmwaa ni na akpo ni, O si ñi bia wee wee. (The ni and ñi is interchangeable)
Vs Mma gi na akpo gi, O si gi bia ugbua/kita.

It's from the Orsu clan, though we (me)are technically in Orlu Lga. I just found out from my dad the name of the dialect is "IGBO DI IGBO". IGBODI'IGBO.

Most people born and brought up there still speak it, but once you're out it might easily get diluted because the pace of the dialect is slower/ more laid back than other igbo dialects.

Does anyone have any info on igbodigbo? I'll really appreciate It.

sounds so much like my in-laws dialect
they are from njaba lga

i remember when their mother was asking me if i was hungry and wanted to eat,i was lost
she said sumtin like iriwe giele?
didnt know what she was saying until somebody translated it

whenever i find myself in egbema either in imo or rivers state and i speak a smirk of central igbo, the tend to either call me onye anambra or isu. The latter is a term im not used too but it seems like a term used in egbema used to refer to mainstream igbo language.

Okay, please do. Being a non-linguist, I feel super-awkward (even arrogant and stupid) having to disagree with some of these guys' conclusions on proto-Igbo words.

Roger Blench, for instance, argued that proto-Igbo for leopard was agui. His argument was that since leopard in Ogba was agi, and agu in many of the remaining lects, the proto-Igbo word must have contained both i and u at the end - hence, agui. Now, I don't understand his argument for why both sounds must have been present in proto-Igbo, instead of one sound replacing the other in some of the lects at some point during the evolution of the Igbo 'language'.

(Personally, I had thought that proto-igbo for leopard would be a word like egu or possibly eku.)

Now, coming to alia, I immediately sense that Ohiri-Aniche must have used a similar argument to support that reconstruction. That is, the i in ali/ani and the a in ala/ana suggested to her that both the i sound and the a sound must have been present at the end of the proto-Igbo - hence alia.

I like that she has an alternative reconstruction that takes into consideration non-Igbo cognates. Personally, I have always felt that these non-Igbo relatives (Edoid and Yoruba languages, most importantly; but also Idoma and Nupe) and Ekpeye must be taken into consideration by scholars attempting to reconstruct proto-Igbo words. Taking these relatives (and Ekpeye) into consideration, I had long thought proto-Igbo for 'earth' would sound close to ale.

This is just me voicing out my thoughts. They are the professionals in this; I'm not.

That is possible because ale is the word for land in SE Yoruba dialects.