Now I know what ask.

Did you know that Jesus was Tired?

Did you know that Jesus was hungry?

Did you know he was Thirsty?


Do you know that People can die of Nervous breakdown?

Do you know that people can Die of Thirst ?

Do you know that there sicknesses that are based on Malnutrition?

The Study sickness and ailments had not improved as we have now.

There alot of Sickness based on Pathogens now than those days. The sickness of those days was more Physiological nutritional and Psychological.

I quite understand that what you believe is that everyone is meant to fall sick.


Is tis then a lie,if you believe it for yourself and not what paul experience,what will your conclusion be

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


what will your conclusion be,without thinking about pauls experience?


But If you chose to choose Pauls experience to the Word,that says God quickens my body by his spirit. I rest my case. And surely I cant witness because am Christs

@Infourmer,

Infourmer:

Backslider link=topic=22923.msg1518955#msg1518955 date=1190387738:

Paul Had infirmities

How many did you know of?

2 Cor. 11:30 -- "If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmities."

2 Cor. 12:5 -- "Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmities."

2 Cor. 12:10 -- "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmities, in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

       Galatians 4:13
      "Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first."

How many are you refusing to acknowledge when Paul spoke of his infirmities in the plural?

Infourmer:

what are you talking about? That I said I chose to follow Christ,those that mean I said Paul wasnt following Crist?

This is what I'm talking about: that you should face the issues being discussed and try to be clear so no one misreads you. Nonetheless, you obviously said that people should follow Christ's example and not Paul's. In which case I asked you if Paul was not following Christ by example? What is the meaning of your surprised reaction - or where did I misquote you? No be you talk am again?

Now, just an example of what Paul himself said:

* Php. 3:17 -- "Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample."

* 1 Cor. 4:16 - "Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me."

* 1 Cor. 11:1 - "Be ye followers of me, even as I also am of Christ."

Now Infourmer, did we read that we should "follow Christ's example and not Paul's"?  We hear you.

Infourmer:

Dont jump to conclusions,thats exactly what your problem is,you knew paul had infirmities but you never chose to know why?

Have you taken time to respond to the points I made as to why Paul suffered such?

If God Quickens your body then you were Ill and this does not mean you are a sinner or you don't have the knowledge of the Spirit of God.

He came to heal the sick and save the Lost.

God does not want us to think we are supermen and that is why he allows infirmities on us.

pilgrim.1:

@Infourmer,

How many did you know of?


2 Cor. 11:30 -- "If I must needs glory, I will glory of the things which concern mine infirmit[b]ies[/b]."

2 Cor. 12:5 -- "Of such an one will I glory: yet of myself I will not glory, but in mine infirmit[b]ies[/b]."

2 Cor. 12:10 -- "Therefore I take pleasure in infirmit[b]ies[/b], in reproaches, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong."

        Galatians 4:13
       "Ye know how through infirmity of the flesh I preached the gospel unto you at the first."

How many are you refusing to acknowledge when Paul spoke of his infirmities in the plural?

pilgrim didnt you notice the difference between 2 corinthians and galatians?

lol, In 2 corinthians,Paul used the plural tence because he had found a revelation,he was glad that even If infirmities should come his way,he would glory in them. That didnt show at all that he actually had infirmities.Guess you didnt notice he was using "I will" meaning that infirmities actually had not befell him then,except the one he was experiencing at that time. In 2cor2:12,why didnt he say " I took pleasure" because itwas something he taught he would experience now and then.

In galatians, why then did he use a singular tence in a[b] past tence [/b] formation of words. He used infirmity(singular),preached(past),  . . .meaning he had one infirmity in the past,preaching the gospel.

Infourmer:

I quite understand that what you believe is that everyone is meant to fall sick.


Is tis then a lie,if you believe it for yourself and not what paul experience,what will your conclusion be

Em. . . Infourmer, I think you'd have to be careful and not begin to be dishonest for the mere sake of trying to win an argument. Where did you read that I made the statement that "everyone is meant to fall sick"? Where did you begin to tow such dishonest lines? Now, it is interesting that you making such assumptions and at the same stating that it's a lie. The point, to me, is that you're posting your lies. Or I don't see the reason why you would dishonestly ascribe issues to me that I never stated directly or indirectly.

Could you just have the grace of heart to be honest, please? Thank you.

Infourmer:

1 Peter 3:18
For Christ also hath once suffered for sins, the just for the unjust, that he might bring us to God, being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit:


1 Corinthians 15:45
And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.


Romans 8:11
But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you.


what will your conclusion be,without thinking about pauls experience?

Without thinking of Paul's experience, I still would not confuse the facts in the New Testament to demonstrate that Christians have experienced sickness - as in Timothy's and Epaphroditus' cases.

Infourmer:

But If you chose to choose Pauls experience to the Word,that says God quickens my body by his spirit. I rest my case. And surely I can't witness because am Christs

No wahala. You're not Christ to determine what should be the experience of each believer. For even the same Christ indeed knew of the pains and sufferings of His own; and instead of asking them to cast out this and that, His word to them was:

  "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison,
   that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give
   thee a crown of life." (Rev. 2:10)

It pays to have a balanced understanding of God's WORD and not try to read human ideas into it.

Cheers.

The Words I posted are straight from the Bible yet you believed not.
concerning this

pilgrim.1:

Em. . . Infourmer, I think you'd have to be careful and not begin to be dishonest for the mere sake of trying to win an argument. Where did you read that I made the statement that "everyone is meant to fall sick"? Where did you begin to tow such dishonest lines? Now, it is interesting that you making such assumptions and at the same stating that it's a lie. The point, to me, is that you're posting your lies. Or I don't see the reason why you would dishonestly ascribe issues to me that I never stated directly or indirectly.

Could you just have the grace of heart to be honest, please? Thank you.

Didnt you say as a believer its part of the suffering we must endure?
Sure you did,so is that not as much as everybeliever must experience sickness?

I dont think have said anything thats not true here,only if you want to deny you never said such.

@Infourmer,

Infourmer:

pilgrim didnt you notice the difference between 2 corinthians and galatians?

lol, In 2 corinthians,Paul used the plural tence because he had found a revelation,he was glad that even If infirmities should come his way,he would glory in them. That didnt show at all that he actually had infirmities.

why then did he use a singular tence in a[b] past tence [/b] formation of words. He used infirmity(singular),preached(past),  . . .meaning he had one infirmity in the past,preaching the gospel.

Lol. . . my dear brother - na efry day we dey learn. Here, let me help you understand this point:

The word "infirmities" and "infirmity" are the same word in Greek. If we read them in singular or plural occurences in our English Bibles as in the KJV, it does not mean that they are different. The same Greek word is translated as "diseases" in Acts 28:9 --

  "So when this was done, others also, which had diseases [ασθένεια - "astheneia"] in the island, came, and were healed".

So, whether it was "infirmity", or "infirmties", or "diseases", they are all just the same Greek word as highlighted above.

pilgrim.1:


No wahala. You're not Christ to determine what should be the experience of each believer. For even the same Christ indeed knew of the pains and sufferings of His own; and instead of asking them to cast out this and that, His word to them was:

  "Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison,
   that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give
   thee a crown of life." (Rev. 2:10)

It pays to have a balanced understanding of God's WORD and not try to read human ideas into it.

Cheers.

I think you missed something here,the full verse you only took but what about what it started with?

8And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;

9I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.

10Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.


Do you think this verse had anything to do with sickness?

I believe this verse was addressing those that'll will go through sufferings from haters of the gospel and not sickness.

pilgrim.1:

@Infourmer,

Lol. . . my dear brother - na efry day we dey learn. Here, let me help you understand this point:

The word "infirmities" and "infirmity" are the same word in Greek. If we read them in singular or plural occurences in our English Bibles as in the KJV, it does not mean that they are different. The same Greek word is translated as "diseases" in Acts 28:9 --

   "So when this was done, others also, which had diseases [ασθένεια - "astheneia"] in the island, came, and were healed".

So, whether it was "infirmity", or "infirmties", or "diseases", they are all just the same Greek word as highlighted above.

lol,pilgrim you're making me laugh my whole system out.

why then did you claim it was in plural? By the way sef its not only that. Didnt you notice the use of words in those verses you posted?
that the plural word of infirmities was used with future tence,and the singular word(infirmity)was used with past tence?

Or are they too the same in greek?

@Infourmer,

Infourmer:

The Words I posted are straight from the Bible yet you believed not.

You were simply using them out of constext - and when asked to address them contextually, you started over-reacting. That's just the point.

Infourmer:

concerning this
Didnt you say as a believer its part of the suffering we must endure?
Sure you did,so is that not as much as everybeliever must experience sickness?

I never said every believer MUST experience sicKness. Here is what I stated:

[list]"You requested a verse that clearly states that Christians are meant to experience "sickness" - and here are just two that shows that Christians indeed may experience sickness as part of their suffering. It does not mean that God no longer heals or that He deliberately wants His children sick. But the Bible is clear that Christians pass through various kinds of "trials" and "sufferings" - including sickness. This was confirmed in the experiences of the apostle Paul and his fellowlabourers - and you still haven't been able to discuss their experiences clearly, other than making assertions about their being immature at the time they suffered such - which is not what is taught in God's WORD."[/list]

That does not sound like I was making sickness the lot of every believer. The points to be distinguished are these:

   * suffering is a common lot of EVERY Christian - Php. 1:29

   * suffering takes various forms - James 1:2 - ("diverse trials"

   * one of the forms of suffering for Christ's sake may include sickness (as in Paul's case)

   * there are OTHER forms of suffering for Christ's sake.

Now, for you to force the idea that I was making "sickness" the lot of every believer is an unhealthy attempt to deliberately misread my rejoinders. I hope you can see the point now?

Infourmer:

I don't think have said anything thats not true here,only if you want to deny you never said such.

Please check again and let me know if what you asserted is the same thing that I stated earlier.

Cheers.

@Infourmer

what you quoted means Satan can take us to prison ONLY?

God Allows Satan to deal with us so that we can be purified in him.

Job was sick
Jesus was Hungry tired hungry he did not have a house of his own
Paul was sick

There is one "MAN of GOD" called Dr. Creflo Dollar he actually was preaching and denying the deity of Jesus because He was said to be Tired thirsty and Hungered.

For a scripture to be accepted you must have pretext and context.

Infourmer:

I think you missed something here,the full verse you only took but what about what it started with?. .

Do you think this verse had anything to do with sickness?

I believe this verse was addressing those that'll will go through sufferings from haters of the gospel and not sickness.

Indeed it focuses more on "suffering" rather than on "sickness" specifically. However, is it not true that we have been discussing "sickness" as part of "suffering"?

The point is that Christians face various kinds of trials and suffering - and the Lord's recommendation to those who are His and would be facing such trails is rather opposite what some super-spiritualists would have us believe.

AM REDEEMED FROM SICKNESS,CAN NEVER FALL SICK BECAUSE MY KIND DONT FALL SICK. ITS NOT IN MY BLOOD LINE OR SHOULD I SAY IN MY SPIRIT LINE,AMAZING GRACE AND LOVE IS ALL ABOUT ME.


I TAKE YOUR WORDS AS THE ONLY TRUTH GOD AND ALL MEN LIARS.

THE FRUIT OF MY BODY IS HEALTH AND HEALTH ALONE.

Pilgrim am really sorry to say this,but you can go on experiencing sickness as you believe. But I must say am out of that system because am born of God and the bible declares in

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith.

I have over come the world and its system,am not subject to the world but the world is subject to me.

Backslider:

@Infourmer

what you quoted means Satan can take us to prison ONLY?

That is why I've been asking him to look at the meaning of any word he is discussing and gather their context! I just dey laff!

Infourmer:

I TAKE YOUR WORDS AS THE ONLY TRUTH GOD AND ALL MEN LIARS.

You should realize that "ALL MEN" includes you, Infourmer. 

Infourmer:

Pilgrim am really sorry to say this,but you can go on experiencing sickness as you believe. But I must say am out of that system because am born of God and the bible declares in

I'm sorry for you, Infourmer, but I've stated already that since I came to know Christ, I haven't been sick. Yes indeed, I'm a hard worker - and experience tiredness like everyone else; but is that "sickness"?

So, just because I'm born again does not mean that I should assume to be spiritually superior to other born again Christians. God has been merciful to me - but that should not make me become proud over those who have a closer and more mature walk with him and have suffered and experienced deep suffering for His Name sake.

@infourmer

Past tense?

Oh this is great.

I think I have to run now. Pilgrim1 hope you journey well.

Shalom Shallom

Backslider:

I think I have to run now. Pilgrim1 hope you journey well.

Shalom Shallom

Shallom, dear Backslider. . . enjoy His grace.

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

@infourmer
I perceive you are from the fold of the CHRIST EMBASSY. I may be wrong.

I just listened to his message in Ghana before i came online. he envelopes false doctrine in his preaching. Pilgrim you can imagine what one False sermon can do to one man. me and you have been explaining to Infourmer since. The entry point was his preacher.

Infourmer:

Revelation 3:12
Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

And while we're here waiting the Lord's return, . . .?

Revelation 3:5
He that overcometh, the same shall be clothed in white raiment; and I will not blot out his name out of the book of life, but I will confess his name before my Father, and before his angels.

Backslider:

@infourmer
I perceive you are from the fold of the CHRIST EMBASSY. I may be wrong.

I just listened to his message in Ghana before i came online. he envelopes false doctrine in his preaching. Pilgrim you can imagine what one False sermon can do to one man. me and you have been explaining to Infourmer since. The entry point was his preacher.

why should you judge another prophet,are you God?
That is one thing that points that you know not what you say,its clear that what you know is not what I believe. I believe in eternal life,but you believe in sickness.

Backslider:

@infourmer
I perceive you are from the fold of the CHRIST EMBASSY. I may be wrong.

I just listened to his message in Ghana before i came online. he envelopes false doctrine in his preaching. Pilgrim you can imagine what one False sermon can do to one man. me and you have been explaining to Infourmer since. The entry point was his preacher.

Well, for me I have great respect for preachers of the Gospel; but I don't necessarily agree with everything they teach - especially when they make assertions that are unfounded in God's WORD. This is why I'm humbled by the teaching we had last week in Bible Study: in summary - we should love people deeply enough to point them to the truth, even if it means that we suffer to our disadvantage in doing so.

Infourmer may have his convictions; and I greatly admire that. But two things we're seeking here are:

  (a) for him to defend his ideas from God's WORD - especially as regards his assertions of Paul, Timothy,
       Epaphroditus. . . and Job. Unfortunately, he has not been able to do so - and yet, we should love and
       respect his convictions all the same.

  (b) that some of us are enjoying divine health should not make us become so proud to assume untrue
       things about other mature believers. Where I try to do so, then I bring myself under the conviction
       of a pride that God hates.

I just hope he could have the grace to see these points - but if he doesn't, all's well. The glory to God alone.

Cheers.

Infourmer:

why should you judge another prophet,are you God?
That is one thing that points that you know not what you say,its clear that what you know is not what I believe. I believe in eternal life,but you believe in sickness.

Lol. . . Infourmer, na so spirituality in Christ be?

On the one hand you detested his "judging" another; but then on the other hand you immediately "judge" him. Where has he told you that he believes in "sickness" or that he does not believe in eternal life because you do?

Abeg, small-small, bros. . . such reactions are not the best way to display our Christian testimony.

Cheers.

@Pilgrim

Your points are just not to be thought about because I asked you how many times paul fell sick,its paul this time and not timothy and Epaphroditus, Even them you never said how many times they fell sick,yet you posted a verse claiming plural and singular tence matters not,and that happens to be the only prove you have.

But I understand sha,it s all about what we believe. I have chose what to believe,and so have you.

Let us just live according to the revelation we chose to believe.What I know is that the LIFE we live today is shaped according to what we believe.

Stay blessed.

pilgrim.1:

Lol. . . Infourmer, na so spirituality in Christ be?

On the one hand you detested his "judging" another; but then on the other hand you immediately "judge" him. Where has he told you that he believes in "sickness" or that he does not believe in eternal life because you do?

Abeg, small-small, bros. . . such reactions are not the best way to display our Christian testimony.

Cheers.

he clearly shows it and that is not me judging him because what he said plainly along with you was that,Christians should sometimes experience sickness,thats what you believe innit? cos you said it all.

How have I "Judged"

Another error.

For me to Judge I must Sentence.

I have not sentenced I have said that there is false teaching enveloped in his Sermon.

If I even go ahead to sentence It must what the bible dictates and that must be done in love.

The lady that was Judged and was set free by Jesus was Sentenced the person she committed the sin with was no where to be found.

We must test all spirits.

Ask people who know me on this thread they know my position.

A man may say his a man of God but if I listened to his preaching, I know what to call him.

there some that call themselves men of God but are Outright demon possessed men spreading false hood in the face of the earth and only God can save them from their sins.

@Infourmer,

Infourmer:

Your points are just not to be thought about because I asked you how many times paul fell sick,its paul this time and not timothy and Epaphroditus, Even them you never said how many times they fell sick,yet you posted a verse claiming plural and singular tence matters not,and that happens to be the only prove you have.

Rather than try to hurdle and scale between points, why is it difficult for you to simply acknowledge what the WORD of God reveals? How many times does one have to experience sickness before you count it as such? This kind of reasoning is quite unfortunate, to say the least. You scooted from Paul to Timothy; hurdled that and went to Job; seeing Epaphroditus was too much for you to handle, you went round trying to force an unfounded reason into Job's and Paul's experiences. . . and now the latest mechanical device is to resort to how many times they fell sick before you see the case?

Infourmer, if you simply have nothing to say any further in defence of your unsubstantiated assertions, please let us know - nobody dey argue to win any point.

Infourmer:

But I understand sha,it s all about what we believe. I have chose what to believe,and so have you.

I hear you. The point again is that we should not use our own personal ideas to dictate issues for other Christians - because when they ask questions and you have no straightforward answers, you end up leaving them more confused; and then resorting to misreading other people's post is not helping your arguments at all.

Infourmer:

Let us just live according to the revelation we chose to believe.What I know is that the LIFE we live today is shaped according to what we believe.

No worries - we could do better by studying God's WORD more and not holding on to ideas gathered from preachers who have no answers to serious questions being asked. This is why any objective reader would see that not many preachers who hold the views you espouse have been able to provide real answers to identify what exactly happened in Job's case.

@Backslider,

Backslider:

there some that call themselves men of God but are Outright demon possessed men spreading false hood in the face of the earth and only God can save them from their sins.

Lol. . . take it easy - don't be quick to denounce anyone, "outright" or not. Let God be the sovereign Judge of all. As for us, we have a responsibility to discern; and if we feel unsafe when we listen to anyone, all we can do is "avoid them" (Rom. 16:17).

Yes they do Exist atleast my brotheris one of the true pastor