Rilwon:
Well, you have the right to type whatever you want with your phone;

Now you believe, do you also know that you have right to type whatever you like on your phone about Bible?

you have the right to quote whichever post you want to quote on Nairaland.

Just the way you're being quoting what you want from Bible on Nairaland.

But for me, my response was directed at the post I quoted, I owe you no arguement. You can as well say that part of the bible was written by muslims, or tell us that the bible God lied in that verse. Thats your cuppa.

No vex bros, he quite understood those verses because Bible unlike Qur'an has details of every history its making reference to.

The same Bible recorded where THE PROMISED of God to ISMAIL WAS FULFILLED.

Ovacoma:

i know one thing for sure allah is satan, and quran is a lie.

Alright, that's what your perspective is. And you should never accept islam if you have that perspective. But as a muslim, it is my responsibility to vhange that perspective of yours. Now I ask, what fuels this perspective of yours?

thorpido:
Sticking out my tongue to you for your comment there @bolded.I understand such reactions.It's gutter though.Doesn't it make sense to you to simply provide a copy since you have spoken so much about the scrolls?

read... The dead sea scroll not only mentions Ahmad, the prophesy of Muhammad. But modern historians have used it in proving the unoriginality of the bible.

Emusan:


Now you believe, do you also know that you have right to type whatever you like on your phone about Bible?
Just the way you're being quoting what you want from Bible on Nairaland. No vex bros, he quite understood those verses because Bible unlike Qur'an has details of every history its making reference to.

Just as you have the right to quote the post that wasn't directed at you, but hey! I'm not here to argue or convince anyone to stop believing what they believed. The first post I quoted on this thread is my major concern - and I believe I have done justice to it. Every other thing you want to say is your cuppa, you have the right to type whatever rocks your boat.

The same Bible recorded where THE PROMISED of God to ISMAIL WAS FULFILLED.

I will like to see this.

KellamLeTorneau:


Please mate, I take offense in the fact that you called me a liar. Please feel free to point out where I lied or I demand you apologise.

u ve told many lies here : u said Jesus will come back to this world, live and die, u wrote that the Jews jealous the Arab, u claim that Jesus is like any of d prophet, etc. D Bible says Jesus is not like any other human, He is the savior, Son of God, etc, and you are writing nonsense here, aren't you a liar then?

Rilwon:


Well, you have the right to type whatever you want with your phone; you have the right to quote whichever post you want to quote on Nairaland. But for me, my response was directed at the post I quoted, I owe you no arguement. You can as well say that part of the bible was written by muslims, or tell us that the bible God lied in that verse. Thats your cuppa.

you can go ahead and ban me

KellamLeTorneau:


Alright, that's what your perspective is. And you should never accept islam if you have that perspective. But as a muslim, it is my responsibility to vhange that perspective of yours. Now I ask, what fuels this perspective of yours?

the issue of muhammed is one of the reasons for the belief, muhammed committed too much evil to be called a normal man, let alone a prophet of a Holy God. What do you say to the best man marrying a 7 years old baby, or can we call her a girl? How about multiple wives, even the wife of his adopted son. How about all the killings he took part in for WHATEVER reasons, since he claimed to be a prophet of God. Another is the denial of the essence of Christianity, Christ personality, His death and resurrection. Another reason i beieve allah is satan is the do or die nature of islam, that is y Christians and other people who are not muslims are killed in Muslim dominated regions and nations. The worst of all is that allah/satan approved muhammedls actions. God wouldn't give the best man, or his holy prophet to take another man's wife, raid caravans, kill non Muslims, deny His son, sleep with a child bride, encourage rape, etc. God cannot do that, only the devil can do such. See terrorist group all over the world defending the prophet and d religion of peace, see bombings in d name of Islam.

KellamLeTorneau:


Lol! So because THE was used therefore he is not infact a prophet that's your explanation?

I'll not take you serious if you actually thought this is my actual explanation.

Lmao this is the use of purpose of "the" denoting one or more people or things already mentioned or assumed to be common knowledge.

After you wrote the @bold with key point underlined you can still go further to write the below statement.

[size=14pt]It can't be[/size] that the "the" signifies his fame and so the people in question knew him? Or that they mentioned him earlier?

Read the bold and underline together and compare it with your above statement to see how ridiculous it is.

Besides, my point the fact that they [size=14pt]knew him as a prophet, I'm not questioning whether he is a prophet[/size] or not so you have no point here.[/size]

Thank God you agree that THEY KNEW HIM AS A PROPHET which leads me to my earlier emphasis that NOT THAT THEY ONLY KNEW HIM AS A PROPHET BUT A PROPHET WHO HAD ALREADY MENTIONED/SPOKEN ABOUT BEFORE and with the evidence in the Bible we know that THEY KNEW HIM AS THE ONE MOSES SPOKE ABOUT IN DEUTERONOMY 18:18 which your false professor has applied to Muhammad

You agreed with that verse and for you to change your posit now will be problem and this shows how Muslims always dance around the Bible.

Lmao! And I'm the confused one?

With the evidence provided above.

KellamLeTorneau:
Its simple as that, what agrees with the quran is true, what doesn't must be a fabrication.

Yet where you chose to make Bible agreed with Qur'an also contradict Qur'an i.e John 16 Jesus called God Father whereas there's no Fatherhood of Allah in Qur'an.

Jesus refers to god as the father and like biblical scholars admit, it doesn't mean that in a literal sense,

Waoooooo clap for yourself for knowing what Allah failed to know, now is about time to teach Muhammad's god that being called Son or sons of God don't literally mean God married any wife to Father Son or sons as Qur'an portrayed it.

if so then how many sons does the father have?, did your bible not say you are all sons of god?

After all you can reason beyond Qur'an now, so if God has millions sons it doesn't literally mean God gets wife before He could father them.

You can't compare literary terms and methods used in the Quran and the bible.

Of course why will I be comparing an inspired Book of God with the one fabricated by Muhammad who thought that by saying Son or sons of God means God must get a wife before He could father Son or sons.

And by the way, I think you mean "confused".

So what if I meant confused, do you have problem with that?

[quote author=Emusan post=34465225]


Then in your foolishness you failed to realize that you just confirmed jesus is not the begotten son of God as you claimed.

Waoooooo clap for yourself for knowing what Allah failed to know, now is about time to teach Muhammad's god that being called Son or sons of God don't literally mean God married any wife to Father Son or sons as Qur'an portrayed it.

Again, you are shooting yourself in the leg. That's our point, God did not beget, nor was he begotten, I'm glad you've accepted this.

After all you can reason beyond Qur'an now, so if God has millions sons it doesn't literally mean God gets wife before He could father them.

When arguing about something like this and you bring up such issues it just shows how clueless you are. Quran Arabic, bible Hebrew. And btw no one says God has a wife, but the question is what makes jesus gods begotten son like you claim.

Of course why will I be comparing an inspired Book of God with the one fabricated by Muhammad who thought that by saying Son or sons of God means God must get a wife before He could father Son or sons.

I have no problem with the word as long as it is used and spelt correctly.

So what if I meant confused, do you have problem with that?

Rilwon:
Just as you have the right to quote the post that wasn't directed at you, but hey! I'm not here to argue or convince anyone to stop believing what they believed. The first post I quoted on this thread is my major concern - and I believe I have done justice to it. Every other thing you want to say is your cuppa, you have the right to type whatever rocks your boat.

You've turned to a preacher now waooo

So the post you first quoted, does it concern you?

I will like to see this.

OK.
Brother Rilwon help us open your Bible to the book of Genesis chapter 25 starting from verse 12 to 18.

Welcome to today's Bible study.

[quote author=Emusan post=34464515]



And it didn't cross your mind that they called him a prophet because that's what he was, that's what he claimed to be and that's what they knew him as? Again your lack of understanding of simple english shows.

Thank God you agree that [b]THEY KNEW HIM AS A PROPHET[/b] which leads me to my earlier emphasis that NOT THAT THEY ONLY KNEW HIM AS A PROPHET BUT A PROPHET WHO HAD ALREADY MENTIONED/SPOKEN ABOUT BEFORE and with the evidence in the Bible we know that THEY KNEW HIM AS THE ONE MOSES SPOKE ABOUT IN DEUTERONOMY 18:18 which your false professor has applied to Muhammad

[quote author=KellamLeTorneau post=34465767][/quote]

Mr man rearrange your post so that I can quote it. No time for copy and rearrange.

I beg to differ

Ovacoma:

the issue of muhammed is one of the reasons for the belief, muhammed committed too much evil to be called a normal man, let alone a prophet of a Holy God.

The common consensus was the marriage was at 6and consummation at 9. This was in line with the tradition of the people back then as even modern historians assert. Mary got pregnant with jesus when she was 12 according to christians and she was engaged to Joseph who was between 36-90, around the same time according to christian traditions. Until recent times minimum age for marriage in European countries were as low as seven.

What do you say to the best man marrying a 7 years old baby, or can we call her a girl?

Solomon had hundreds of wives, so did many other biblical personalities including Abraham who had 2. Islam is the only religion that actually restricts Marriage to 4, I don't know where christians got monogamy from because it's sure as hell not from the bible. Another later innovation. Zaynab bint jash was Muhammads cousin, she was offered to him as a wife but rejected it, he later gave her as a wife to Zayd, a slave who he adopted in order to raise the status of slaves but in the end zaynab the woman from a powerful family felt superior to zayd, the former slave, the marriage didn't work and Zayd asked for permission from the prophet to divorce her, the prophet declined and told him to be patient but eventually Zayd divorced her and Muhammad married her, so that people can have no doubts about the issue of adopted sons in the future.

How about multiple wives, even the wife of his adopted son

.


No! I would like to see proof of where Muhammad ordered unjust killings. Heck if you read your bible you'd see Moses killed a lot more than Muhammad. Is he not a prophet?

How about all the killings he took part in for WHATEVER reasons, since he claimed to be a prophet of God.

We deny this because it is a lie.

Another is the denial of the essence of Christianity, Christ personality, His death and resurrection

.

Another reason i beieve allah is satan is the do or die nature of islam, that is y Christians and other people who are not muslims are killed in Muslim dominated regions and nations. The worst of all is that allah/satan approved muhammedls actions. God wouldn't give the best man, or his holy prophet to take another man's wife, raid caravans, kill non Muslims, deny His son, sleep with a child bride, encourage rape, etc. God cannot do that, only the devil can do such. See terrorist group all over the world defending the prophet and d religion of peace, see bombings in d name of Islam.

Bombings and suicide attacks are all forbidden in Islam. I think the verse below sums up everything.


Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

— trans. Yusuf Ali, Quran 2:256

Ovacoma:

u ve told many lies here : u said Jesus will come back to this world, live and die, u wrote that the Jews jealous the Arab, u claim that Jesus is like any of d prophet, etc. D Bible says Jesus is not like any other human, He is the savior, Son of God, etc, and you are writing nonsense here, aren't you a liar then?

So in your definition, a liar is someone who interprets things differently from you? Or has different opinions? Even when he brings up proof to back up his claim?

Emusan:


Mr man rearrange your post so that I can quote it. No time for copy and rearrange.

That which is made explicit to the lazy is not worth my time.

KellamLeTorneau:
That which is [size=14pt]made explicit[/size] to the lazy is not worth my time.

The @bold shows how knowledge is far from you.

I simply said you should rearrange your post because as I click quote on it, it was only your name within the quote tag that appeared.

So do the necessary thing and let the Bible study continues.

KellamLeTorneau:
Bombings and suicide attacks are all forbidden in Islam. I think the verse below sums up everything.

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

— trans. Yusuf Ali, Quran 2:256

This is the very issue I was discussing with one Muslim, so Allah knows this yet commanded Muhammad to fight those people UNTIL THEY SUBMITTED AND ACKNOWLEDGED THAT ISLAM IS THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION.

Beside, from Muhammad himself down to his successors (the caliphates) tell me anyone who didn't fight, why do they fight if there's no compulsion in Islam?

Emusan:


The @bold shows how knowledge is far from you.

I simply said you should rearrange your post because as I click quote on it, it was only your name within the quote tag that appeared.

So do the necessary thing and let the Bible study continues.

You really like "bolding" stuff don't you? I don't know which point that proves or why it was a necessity. What about "made explixit" implicates me? I suggest you go back and refute my claims, that is of course if you can. Stop giving me an excuse to paint you as a buffoon.

Emusan:


This is the very issue I was discussing with one Muslim, so Allah knows this yet commanded Muhammad to fight those people UNTIL THEY SUBMITTED AND ACKNOWLEDGED THAT ISLAM IS THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION.

Beside, from Muhammad himself down to his successors (the caliphates) tell me anyone who didn't fight, why do they fight if there's no compulsion in Islam?

Let's focus on Muhammad here. Here I ask why did Moses fight wars? Also I ask where Muhammad ordered the unjustified killing of a person.

Emusan:


You've turned to a preacher now waooo
So the post you first quoted, does it concern you?
OK.
Brother Rilwon help us open your Bible to the book of Genesis chapter 25 starting from verse 12 to 18.Welcome to today's Bible study.

Which means you accept my point. Very good of you.

Rilwon:


Which means you accept my point. Very good of you.

Lol! That's what he's been doing. When you refute his claims and he has no way of digging himself out of the hole he dug for himdelf, he repeats what you say and then attempts to imply that that's what he meant in the first place and in doing so devouring his own beliefs. Its quite sad really.

Rilwon:
Which means you accept my point. Very good of you.

Accept your point that?

KellamLeTorneau:
Let's focus on Muhammad here. Here I ask why did Moses fight wars?

Moses fought war as a result of God judging the Amorites for their iniquity not because Moses wanted them to serve his God by force.

Also I ask where Muhammad ordered the unjustified killing of a person.

This is not the initial point you've deviated from it.

You quoted a verse from Quran that says "Let there be no compulsion in religion:..." 2:256 and I said so Allah knows this yet commanded Muhammad to fight those people UNTIL THEY SUBMITTED AND ACKNOWLEDGED THAT ISLAM IS THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION.

So we are talking about compulsion or forceful conversion here not killing unjustly.

In case you forget this is the verse "FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor the LATTER DAY, nor do they prohibit what ALLAH and his Apostle prohibited, nor FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, out of those who have been given the the Book, UNTIL they pay tax in acknowledgment of superiority AND they are in the state of SUBJECTION" S 9:29 Shakir (Capital, bold & underline-mine)

Yet Allah still said there's no compulsion in religion.

KellamLeTorneau:
You really like "bolding" stuff don't you?

Yeah so that your damn closed eyes can see my points.

I don't know which point that proves or why it was a necessity. What about "made explixit" implicates me?

What is he saying

I suggest you go back and refute my claims, that is of course if you can.

Your arrogancy won't allow you to learn.

You said I should refute your claims but I didn't even see any though i love to reply your post but your inability to properly make use of simple post TAG had prevented me not to and I'm trying to correct your ignorance but you're proving stubborn.

Stop giving me an excuse to paint you as a buffoon.

The person who supposed to be referring to as buffoon is making ignorant noise.

For the last time if you're serious, go back to that your PREVIOUS POST use the QUOTE TAG in a right place so that if I quote it, it won't display EMPTY POST. OK!

Emusan:


Yeah so that your damn closed eyes can see my points.



What is he saying



Your arrogancy won't allow you to learn.

You said I should refute your claims but I didn't even see any though i love to reply your post but your inability to properly make use of simple post TAG had prevented me not to and I'm trying to correct your ignorance but you're proving stubborn.



The person who supposed to be referring to as buffoon is making ignorant noise.

For the last time if you're serious, go back to that your PREVIOUS POST use the QUOTE TAG in a right place so that if I quote it, it won't display EMPTY POST. OK!

Lol! Silly excuses.

Emusan:



Moses fought war as a result of God judging the Amorites for their iniquity not because Moses wanted them to serve his God by force.

Tell me one single war Muhammad fought that wasn't out of necessity, or self defense.


Read the parts in bold, your claims say until they acknowledge islam and the verse you brought as proof says until they pay Jizya, see how confused or rather blind you are?

This is not the initial point you've deviated from it.

You quoted a verse from Quran that says "Let there be no compulsion in religion:..." 2:256 and I said so Allah knows this yet commanded Muhammad to fight those people UNTIL THEY SUBMITTED AND ACKNOWLEDGED THAT ISLAM IS THE ONLY TRUE RELIGION.

So we are talking about compulsion or forceful conversion here not killing unjustly.

In case you forget this is the verse "FIGHT THOSE WHO DO NOT BELIEVE IN ALLAH, nor the LATTER DAY, nor do they prohibit what ALLAH and his Apostle prohibited, nor FOLLOW THE RELIGION OF TRUTH, out of those who have been given the the Book, [b]UNTIL they pay tax in acknowledgment of superiority AND they are in the state of SUBJECTION" S [/b]9:29 Shakir (Capital, bold & underline-mine)

Yet Allah still said there's no compulsion in religion.

Yes, and Allah does not contradict himself.

KellamLeTorneau:



So in your definition, a liar is someone who interprets things differently from you? Or has different opinions? Even when he brings up proof to back up his claim?

Anyway, you are entitle to your own personal interpretations. But you shouldn't make your personal interpretations final.

Ovacoma:

Anyway, you are entitle to your own personal interpretations. But you shouldn't make your personal interpretations final.

Neither should you. Apology accepted, it takes a big man to admit when he's wrong.

KellamLeTorneau:
I beg to differ


The common consensus was the marriage was at 6and consummation at 9. This was in line with the tradition of the people back then as even modern historians assert. Mary got pregnant with jesus when she was 12 according to christians and she was engaged to Joseph who was between 36-90, around the same time according to christian traditions. Until recent times minimum age for marriage in European countries were as low as seven.


Solomon had hundreds of wives, so did many other biblical personalities including Abraham who had 2. Islam is the only religion that actually restricts Marriage to 4, I don't know where christians got monogamy from because it's sure as hell not from the bible. Another later innovation. Zaynab bint jash was Muhammads cousin, she was offered to him as a wife but rejected it, he later gave her as a wife to Zayd, a slave who he adopted in order to raise the status of slaves but in the end zaynab the woman from a powerful family felt superior to zayd, the former slave, the marriage didn't work and Zayd asked for permission from the prophet to divorce her, the prophet declined and told him to be patient but eventually Zayd divorced her and Muhammad married her, so that people can have no doubts about the issue of adopted sons in the future.
.


No! I would like to see proof of where Muhammad ordered unjust killings. Heck if you read your bible you'd see Moses killed a lot more than Muhammad. Is he not a prophet?


We deny this because it is a lie.
.



Bombings and suicide attacks are all forbidden in Islam. I think the verse below sums up everything.


Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

— trans. Yusuf Ali, Quran 2:256

How many people got Married at that age even i muhammed time as u claimed it was accepted then. If it was accepted then, was it morally, socially or religiously ok? Solomon was not the best man, Christ never use Solomon as good example for Christians to follow.
Christ and the disciples were clear on marriage issues. And nowhere Christ mentioned wives to a man.
None of the prophets in the Bible is a Perfect example for Christians to follow even as none of them can be accused of many evils of muhammed, this is why we are called Christians, meaning followers of Christ, not of Moses, Solomon, David or even Samuel, though many of these were very unique at there time. But muhammed is Muslim perfect example. That is why religious war is rampant among the followers of muhammed because he was a man of war. And, you forgot to quote the more popular verses used by Islam terrorists to justify mass killing of non Moslems.

Ovacoma:


How many people got Married at that age even i muhammed time as u claimed it was accepted then.

" .. in 1396, Richard II of England was joined in marriage to young Isabel of France, who had been 7 years old when their engagement was announced the previous year in Paris. Not only was there no uproar; there was considerable happiness expressed over the assumed probability that this marriage would end the Hundred Years War then in one of its periodic states of truce between the two kingdoms. Peace was to be ensured by joining together this man and this little girl in marriage.

Bianca of Savoy, Duchess of Milan was married aged 13 (1350), and aged 14 when she gave birth to her eldest son, Giangaleazzo (1351).

Theodora Comnena was aged 13 when she was married King Baldwin III of Jerusalem (1158).

Agnes of France was 12 when, widowed, she was married to Andronicus Comnenus, Byzantine Emperor (1182).

St Elizabeth of Portugal was aged 12 when she was married to King Denis of Portugal and gave birth to three children shortly thereafter.

Caterina Sforza was betrothed aged 9, married aged 14, and gave birth aged 15.

Lucrezia Borgia was married to her first husband aged 13 and bore a son within a few years.

Mary became pregnant with jesus at the age of 12, around the same perspire she was betrothed to Joseph.

Further proof of its acceptability is the fact that the marriage is the fathers idea, no one thought of such marriage as a taboo. Not even Muhammads enemies used it against him.

As a christian, what determines a woman's readiness for marriage, sexual maturity or age? Bear In mind God gave order to the universe.

If it was accepted then, was it morally, socially or religiously ok?

But he was the best man of his time was he not?

Solomon was not the best man, Christ never use Solomon as good example for Christians to follow.

Christ or the disciples? And what did they say?

Christ and the disciples were clear on marriage issues.

And nowhere Christ mentioned wives to a man.

Your point is?

None of the prophets in the Bible is a Perfect example for Christians to follow even as none of them can be accused of many evils of muhammed

Again, based on the evidence I provided earlier I beg to differ.

t

his is why we are called Christians, meaning followers of Christ, not of Moses, Solomon, David or even Samuel, though many of these were very unique at there time.

Aha! But then if the law of Moses allows polygamy you must agree with it or you're going against the wishes of jesus.

17"Do not think that I came to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I did not come to abolish but to fulfill. 18"For truly I say to you, until heaven and earth pass away, not the smallest letter or stroke shall pass from the Law until all is accomplished.…Matthew 5:17

But muhammed is Muslim perfect example. That is why religious war is rampant among the followers of muhammed because he was a man of war. And, you forgot to quote the more popular verses used by Islam terrorists to justify mass killing of non Moslems

Oh please, the most terrible of wars were fought by christians. War is more rampant amongst christians than muslims.

The lord is a man of war, the lord is his name. Exodus 15:3

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