@OP, you can go after him in court and you will surely win. This lincolnpixel feels he is smart but like I have always told people I come in contact with, perfection can never be achieved.

He wants you to be scared but be a Man. In the terms of condition, number 2 he stated he owns the xhtml,css and codes and license it to you to use on this project alone. So OP this code belongs to you as long as you don't use it anywhere else. Lincolnpix is a stupid scammer who expects you to stop paying for your hosting so he can sell it to someone else. Stupid lincoln give him full access to his asset. If I were the one I will come after you, because I got igbo brothers everywhere in the world and your full name now. I hate scammers.

lincolnpix:
Morning all,

Hi, Paschal, i hear you.

thanks to all contribuitors on this thread @adewasco2k, @Dmayor7, @Afam4evCraigston, @spikesC

Relationships with clients are always tricky, neither of you are mind readers, so what you come up with and what the client sees in their head may not always be the same thing. And then comes the feedback.

I’m a very trusting person with a huge heart, and over the years I’ve been stiffed out of tens of thousands of dollars.
Not to mention all the time and energy I lost beating myself up for being naive or trying to get people to just honour their agreements and pay for what they received.

No matter what you sell or what industry you’re in, you’re going to experience negative word of mouth (this post is my first experience) it just happens.
Would try to use this negative word of mouth as an opportunity.

Subset is talking complete and utter nonsense.

My answer to the OP is very simple..
I'm not giving him access to the Hosting cpanel because i dont want him to copy my codes, the site is not a ready made script, i designed and developed from scratch and this aspect was previously addressed in the contract.

Guys, to explain my own side of the story attached is a screenshot of the copyright section on the contract with with Paschal's company.


Full contract link: http://d.pr/f/15hf1

My one cent Nairalanders.... I ask that everyone reserve judgement until all the facts have come to light. No need ruining a someone's name by jumping to conclusions.

Paschal, try once in your life to be honest.

Cheers,
Lincoln Gbenga Olagbaju (armed with integrity and passion)

Give him full access to his site, he owns it not you. You are a scammer! He owns the code,xhtml and css as long as he doesn't use it elsewhere and he hasn't used it elsewhere so give him full access.

ydass:



It is quite interesting to know that you would have handled the situation differently but you can not decide for others how to run their business, there is signed contract which I regard as best practice.


You will agree with me that if the client doesn't come in agreement with the contract terms he wouldn't have signed the contract. You can not blame the developer for any misconduct or been unprofessional .

The so called contract simply said all codes/software are licensed for use on only the project, it didn't restrict client from accessing them.

If the domain belongs to the client every other thing in that domain belongs to him.

That is a framed up story. After reading a few of his comment.
Here are my proofs:
No name of the person
No website name
Check his comment that include him mentioning "FRONT PAGE"
No developer can do that, because he would have developed much or more websites.

check his claims for verification and you will find a well-crooked up story.

The developer was clearly determined to exploit his client from start.
The code can be yours to protect but then you should have reciprocated the same gesture from services your depend on to build the site, services like pictures sellers that allow you to buy their pix and have a copy to yourself.

@ subset and lincolnpix
This quite an interesting topic and I will like to come in with my own little experience.

I have been a web application developer for about 11 years and I've worked with clients in almost 30 of the 36 states in Nigeria across varied fields of endeavour.

I will want to be as fair and as neutral as possible. Though it should be noted that in cases like this , any form of arbitration and mediation is always skewed in favour of the client because as they say, the law tends to favor the weak and the victims. The customer in this case automatically tends to assume the position of victims.

I do not have the full picture of your agreements and working relationships but I will point out some standards (granted ICT laws and policy are at its infancy and are always liable to changes). Also I speak from the context of an application developer and not a web designer.



So regardless of your SLA. These are standard expectations

Domain name

The domain name belongs absolutely to the client. The professional only registers on behalf of the client. Infact their are some domains where the company particulars of the client are presented before it is registered. So the domain is the client's and he should have unrestricted access to his domain and can do whatsoever he so wishes with it as long as the payment period (for the domain specifically) is not expired



Hosting Server
Hosting services typically belongs to the developer/Solutions provider unless otherwise stated. By default it 'managed hosting' is assumed in instances of businesses like this (definitely , there are exceptions). You are not expected as a client to have unlimited access to the hosting server because for crying out loud, he might even have other clients packed on the same host so why should he allow one client to carry out activities that might not only be inimical to him but to other clients. There are instances that a client might tell a provider to procure a dedicated server on his behalf so he can get full access but frankly, I don't think that is the case her


Data and/or Database
The data in any given project and REGARDLESS of any agreement that might have been signed before hand belongs to the client. he must ALWAYS be allowed access to his data. You might say but I designed the database and the schema is mine - those are moot points, The data is the clients property, you can not and SHOULD NEVER deny him access to his data, even if he defaults in payments. (of course, I have been a developer for so long and there are work arounds to deal with erring clients) but in explicit terms, you can't deny him of his data


Codes

Unless otherwise stated, the codes (as distinct from the markup) are the intellectual property of the developer. You are paying for a service and not his codes (unless the agreements EXPLICITLY states that the codes were included in the payment). Even freeware software does not give you rights to their codes. You only have automatic access to codes in OPENSOURCE software arrangements. Question is - is lincolnpix company an opensource organization - I don't think so. And by the way, if you are not a developer, what is your business with his codes ?
I have only once given access to my codes to a client and that's because in addition to paying for my service he also paid for the codes. Infact, the codes were developed specifically for him, such that he had more rights over it than me and he probably could prevent me (the developer) from using it in other projects. But this case is clearly different.


Maintenance Fees

I think in this case, one of you is trying to be wise by half, there are two components to a software project. the implementation and a recurrent service fee.
It is expected that these obligations will be explicitly specified before the commencement of the project. And it is actually the professional's responsibility to make the client aware of these charges.
So if the developer was silent about maintenance fee from ground up, then the client can safely assume that there are no maintenance charges on the software - subset and lincolnpix should give further clarifications on these
In the case where the client was duly informed but due to prevailing circumstances that subset mentioned (about the site not gaining traction), if the client cannot continue paying the said amount, then they should resort to a gentleman's agreement, to alleviate the burden. Even though it is understandable that not all project generate returns as expected, it is probably not lincolnpix fault, he has done his own part of the job. so if this is the case, then it is more of sit down and renegotiate terms based on current exigencies
However, the client - subset- can press against lincolnpix for exploitation because clearly the project/website is a transaction based system and the standard in charging for developers on such projects is supposed to be on transaction charge basis subject to a maximum cap such that the developer only benefits from the success of the setup. Making the client pay regardless of results can rightly be seen as exploitation. As a professional you are not just a developer but also a consultant (very important) and for your reputation should be able to steer clients away from dud project, it's not just about your money.
So this is my two cents, I'll love to hear your feedback

pak:

Codes

Unless otherwise stated, the codes (as distinct from the markup) are the intellectual property of the developer. You are paying for a service and not his codes (unless the agreements EXPLICITLY states that the codes were included in the payment). Even freeware software does not give you rights to their codes. You only have automatic access to codes in OPENSOURCE software arrangements. Question is - is lincolnpix company an opensource organization - I don't think so. And by the way, if you are not a developer, what is your business with his codes ?
I have only once given access to my codes to a client and that's because in addition to paying for my service he also paid for the codes. Infact, the codes were developed specifically for him, such that he had more rights over it than me and he probably could prevent me (the developer) from using it in other projects. But this case is clearly different.

It is wrong to use Toyota car Engine on Honda car, since the engine is Toyota Intellectual Property.

But the Toyota car and the Engine is mine, if fully paid for.

You get it

GuiltySpark343:
(clears throat)...let me introduce myself

First degree: Electrical/Electronics and Computer Engineering
PgD: Strategic Business Information technology
Msc: computing with IT management
Certification: Oracle certified Associate Java Programmer

Before I contribute in anyway @wethebest,@wallie and @zeking have spoken justly ( with is appropriate in this case)

Now...It is evident that subset does no much about E-commerce which also has to do with using websites to carry out transaction, what you did wrong was not to have consulted an expert to tell you ALL that is entailed, if you didnt have money for consultancy(which is my most of us run to NL in the first place), you should have asked of help by posting in the programming section of NL, and you would have gotten 70percent of the work done, you would have known what Website for e-commerce entails, and all knowing NLers would be happy to assit you.what you did was to look for a contractor on NL, and what you are experiencing now you would have experienced it with some other person

Now, weather contract or no contract this is the entitlement and responsibility of parties involved

Linonpix
Develop and deploy website according to customer specification and ensure the safety and predictability of this code if he has sence
Charge a little stipend for maintenance, means that the client can shout on him if the website is non responsive, so he wont hesitate/ decline refreshing things
Must sell source code, remember i said must(the client must ensure this is possible initially)

The client subset
Pay for webhosting and increase payment when higher storage and bandwidth is need to cope with increase in sales
(that is as much as I can remember for now..oh wait)
Own all customer details contained in the website

Subnet lincolnpix is not as bad as you make him to be...Let me give you a scenario, what if the ownership of your domain name is ascribed to him, it means you have to re-register a new company name(what a night mare)...people literally register domain names that the think will sell and wait for people to come and buy it off from them

lincolnpix gave you some right which is a good gesture from him and now you are asking for ascess to the database(I dont know if you are a programmer), the content is yours even without a written contract!!!!!!!!!!!, I advice you to tell him what you what to do...see the stages involved in software develpment are
1 finding out of requirement - means the programmer finds out what the client wants
2 the design - the programmer designs stuff, flowcharting and algorithim conception
3 implementation, translate client requirement and specification to codes(
4 .verification(Which you didnt do- the client verifies that software is designed to specification and can scale appropriately, lets leave scaling for now
5. maintenance - involving paying fees for website up keep


Also you are not clear about that you want the website to do, you dont need any access what so ever since you are not a web developer
, further more little tweaking can be ofset by maintenance fees

we are a family in NL and miss understanding should be settled amicable, unless the person is a scammer.

To help you I also want you to get to know the NL with moniker @avosoft, I was thinking he has the person you are talking about, men this guy is an all- rounder,hell-of-a-guy, he was ment to tweak my programme but I ended us solving by myself,his number is on his profile page, give him a call

What you should do are
1. ensure your domain name is owned and registered to you and you have sole right over it
2. use a company not an individual, (a small one for lower cost)... so your business doesn't come to an end if the person falls of the planet
3. agree on how you will be charge if you what to make addition to your website, afterall you previous you state your requirement and have been billed

Remain blessed
A Nler that has your interest at hand

I wish I can quote everyone that have asked the question " what am I (the client) using the access to the database for? But I will use this quote to address the question

As spikesC, DualCore1, Afam4eva earlier mentioned

This is very clear, I'm displeased with the attitude of the current developer (lincoln). How can I be working with a developer that threatens to shut down my business because of 6days delay of his monthly maintenance fee --A maintenance fee I have No idea of until the project was completed. We were literally force into it as a means of extortion from him.

Currently, as I stated earlier, Lincoln is yet to complete the deliverable as regards to the website and he has refused to do that, all because we stopped paying him his monthly stipend.

At my own expense and time, I have outsourced a developer to give me what I want on the site but the greedy guy won't give me access to the codes

Funny part is, he also registered the domain name for us - I know this might sound stupid. But it was all because of the trust and relationship we had.

What's your opinion in this case?

@ lincolnpix

My sincere advice for you is this - in most instances, fighting with a customer is a lose-lose situation. You can never win.
Try as much as possible to settle with you client. losing money can only hurt you in the short term but losing reputation will hurt you forever.

For one, I can assure you that you can probably never get another project from any nairalander reading this thread (that is how the court of public opinion works, though unfair but people make judgements fairly fast). And what's more you don't know how far this exchange can hurt you, this is the digital age, the last thing you'll want to have is any form of negative digital footprint.

I have a policy of never having to join issues with clients (unless of course, my reputation is at stake). I have been in the north for a little while and it is unbelievable how much close knit these guys are - you do a project in Bauchi and you go to Sokoto and the next thing is the guy in Sokoto is talking about what the Bauchi guy said about you. Reputation is everything in this business.
Settle with your client and if it means losing money, do so. You will make so much more in future as long as your works are good.

The wise thing is to always protect yourself from ground up. Though some issues are inevitable.

I have a client that paid me for a software and was supposed to start paying me subscription/maintenance after one year. He hasn't. I even heard he brought in someone to see if he can hack into my system so as to get my codes and make it theirs (the server is physically hosted in the client's premises). i don't bother about these, experience shows that it is easier to develop your own app than hacking someone else's to your taste. As a developer, you know how difficult it is to go back to old codes atimes, talk less of someone who wasn't there when you were developing. Also, the DB requires some form of maintenance to keep working optimally at least once a year, so I know I can always get them without having to tussle but even if...... I will rather walk away than get into a quarrel with a client over money.
The sky is large, the misbehaviour of one bird should not stop another from flying freely

My sincere advice

Ok OP, gimme the cpanel address or whatever it is you av. The guy say na db dey with m she? Leave matter for mthias. Lemme copy d sourcecode without db, gimme a carton of origin bottle and bitters each and 48hrs, I will reproduce the poo in the db. Without the products tho. Tell me d drop off point for my drinks, I will charge you a reputation.

prince3009:


When a client meets me for a job, i charge for both Domain Registration and Hosting. I have an account with Dreamhost which allows me to purchase a domain name of my choice except .com.ng TLDs and then host the domain there on my account depending on my choice. if i want to host under DH, i simply add the domain i just purchased to host. If i want to host elsewhere, i have the option host in let's say Syskay for instance but must point the nameservers to Dreamhost since i purchased the domain name under Dreamhost.

But i preferably purchase and host under Dreamhost because they give everything from Bandwidth, Space, Emails, Sub Domains etc UNLIMITED compared to some other foreign and Nigerian hosting companies.

So lets say i log in to my dreamhost account on panel.dreamhost.com and put in my username and password...

you will see that i have like www.abcd.com, www.efgh.org, www.ijkl.net and etc. all under that account which were purchased there and is all hosted there. But in a case where you see www.mnop.com.ng in my dreamhost account, then it means i purchased that domain under let's say www.syskay.com or www.registeram.ng but hosted it under dreamhost and pointing dreamhost's nameserver (ns1.dreamhost.com and ns2.dreamhost.com etc) to the domain under Syskay or Registeram's panel

I hope this explanation helps.

He perfectly understood you, he just want to confirm if you are hosting your clients website as an addon domain and you just confirmed it.

Thats very unprofessional!

emmatok:


It is wrong to use Toyota car Engine on Honda car, since the engine is Toyota Intellectual Property.

No it is not wrong to use a Toyota Engine on a Honda car as long as both the Toyota and Honda are mine and I have the technical werewithal to pull it off. They are products that are fully paid for.
Infact, I have a 2003 V6 Honda car. If you are good with cars, you know that this model has a very fragile power steering - I used to change it every six months. I have since replaced the power steering with that of another car entirely and for two years now, I have not had any problem. Nobody can arrest me for that nothing even the CEO of Honda. I have commited no offence

emmatok:

Buy the Toyota car and the Engine is mine, if fully paid for.

You get it

That's where the issue is different, Software are also services. I gave you a house maid and you paid for her service, does that give you the rights to go ahead and sleep with her ?? Of course it is possible to pay for her maid service and bride price but that is not the case in this scenario.
Infact, we are lucky because web development mainly works with script that can be accessed. In the days of desktop programming, we won't even be having this arguments because the software would have come across as compiled executables.
Ask yourself, even if you pay for and buy the original version of microsoft office, have you ever been given or request acess to the source code. No - you only use the software for the specified period.



And as a vindication, subset has just posted a reply that has nailed him

subset:



Currently, as I stated earlier, Lincoln is yet to complete the deliverable as regards to the website and he has refused to do that, all because we stopped paying him his monthly stipend.

At my own expense and time, I have outsourced a developer to give me what I want on the site but the greedy guy won't give me access to the codes

What's your opinion in this case?

He has called in a new developer (nothing wrong with that). Yet he wants the new guy to build on lincolnpix sweat and blood (totally and ethically wrong)
If the new guy his so good, let him also develop his the way lincolnpix.

As much as it is professional to sympathise with clients, calling someone else to work on lincolnpix's code without his express permission, regardless of what might have led to it is plainly, plainly wrong and in a way justify's the developer's desire to restrict access to his codes in the first place

@lincolnpix

It is obvious that your arrogance is stemming from the fact that you inserted
one ambiguous clause in the signed agreement but if you know enough about
law you will know that even signed contracts can be easily overturned in a court of law
under certain circumstances which I can enumerate for you if you like.
It is clear that your intentions from onset were dishonourable. You spotted the gap
in subset's knowledge and planned to fully exploit it to your shame.

Repeatedly, @Subset has stated that monthly maintenance was not part of this signed
agreement and yet you have not refuted this even once. You have set aside the original
contract you are relying upon by not appending this act of extortion by means of a monthly
charge to the original signed contract. In other words, you no longer have a 'locus standi' to
withhold any codes. You were smart but not smart enough so hide your greed by just
handing over his code to him and moving on to something else.

Failing this, i will encourage subset to take legal action against you. He will surely win.

For those asking what is subset's biz with the codes, it is clear that having seen the extortionist
tendencies in lincolnpix, he wants to move away from him. Which biz minded person will still ask why?

@Pak - Subset only took the decision to call someone else after lincolnpix turned mercenary.
You do not wait for permission from your enemy to defend yourself

olyivy:


He perfectly understood you, he just want to confirm if you are hosting your clients website as an addon domain and you just confirmed it.

Thats very unprofessional!

Well, not in all cases and not for all clients.

If you purchase dedicated hosting or VPS. You always have a primary account on the server.
And unless you are handling a gargantuan project , it is expected that you will have other domains (and hosting account ) under the primary host. Nothing wrong with that as long as the server specifications can handle the demands of the projects included.

The catch is that any standard service provider should allow you to create personalized management interfaces or cpanels for any other domain you create such that any client can mantain is own account independently of each other

pak:




Hosting Server
Hosting services typically belongs to the developer/Solutions provider unless otherwise stated. By default it 'managed hosting' is assumed in instances of businesses like this (definitely , there are exceptions). You are not expected as a client to have unlimited access to the hosting server because for crying out loud, he might even have other clients packed on the same host so why should he allow one client to carry out activities that might not only be inimical to him but to other clients. There are instances that a client might tell a provider to procure a dedicated server on his behalf so he can get full access but frankly, I don't think that is the case her

This is so untrue that it gives one further insight to why you nigerian guys act like the lincoln guy has done.

Did the client pay for hosting?

so where in the terms of contract/payment did you state that you are going to park his website on shared hosting platform managed by you solely?

if this is your normal practice, better stop it.

You should always let clients know this little sticking points upfront before proceeding. Who says the client will want you to manage the site after building it?

there should be no restrictions. ever. you buy each client's domain name and hosting separately. not all these penny pinching, greedy practices.

pak:
Data and/or Database
The data in any given project and REGARDLESS of any agreement that might have been signed before hand belongs to the client. he must ALWAYS be allowed access to his data. You might say but I designed the database and the schema is mine - those are moot points, The data is the clients property, you can not and SHOULD NEVER deny him access to his data, even if he defaults in payments. (of course, I have been a developer for so long and there are work arounds to deal with erring clients) but in explicit terms, you can't deny him of his data

Simple. and this is the sticking point in this relationship. Denial of access to DB on the excuse of "it contains my top secret codes"

pak:
Codes

Unless otherwise stated, the codes (as distinct from the markup) are the intellectual property of the developer. You are paying for a service and not his codes (unless the agreements EXPLICITLY states that the codes were included in the payment).

Unfortunately even the clause highlighted by this developer states explicitly that he has licensed these codes "for this project"

pak:

Even freeware software does not give you rights to their codes. You only have automatic access to codes in OPENSOURCE software arrangements. Question is - is lincolnpix company an opensource organization - I don't think so. And by the way, if you are not a developer, what is your business with his codes ?

I have only once given access to my codes to a client and that's because in addition to paying for my service he also paid for the codes. Infact, the codes were developed specifically for him, such that he had more rights over it than me and he probably could prevent me (the developer) from using it in other projects. But this case is clearly different.

This is not even the problem here. The client has not asked for codes. he asked for access to his DB.

the Lincolnpix guy's real grouse is that his maga has woken up and decided to end the milking scheme. The client is about to transfer the job to another developer and he does not want this, hence the convenient excuse that the DB contains his code.


So he should change the DB to one that does not contain his code and hand over the complete package to the client. Simple.



besides, if he was really competent at this stuff obfuscating his code should not be so difficult to do.

Closedoor:



Give him full access to his site, he owns it not you. You are a scammer! He owns the code,xhtml and css as long as he doesn't use it elsewhere and he hasn't used it elsewhere so give him full access.

Closedoor,
u're not not on point, u're just barking like a dog.

GuiltySpark343:
(clears throat)...let me introduce myself

First degree: Electrical/Electronics and Computer Engineering
PgD: Strategic Business Information technology
Msc: computing with IT management
Certification: Oracle certified Associate Java Programmer

Before I contribute in anyway @wethebest,@wallie and @zeking have spoken justly ( with is appropriate in this case)

Now...It is evident that subset does no much about E-commerce which also has to do with using websites to carry out transaction, what you did wrong was not to have consulted an expert to tell you ALL that is entailed, if you didnt have money for consultancy(which is my most of us run to NL in the first place), you should have asked of help by posting in the programming section of NL, and you would have gotten 70percent of the work done, you would have known what Website for e-commerce entails, and all knowing NLers would be happy to assit you.what you did was to look for a contractor on NL, and what you are experiencing now you would have experienced it with some other person

Now, weather contract or no contract this is the entitlement and responsibility of parties involved

Linonpix
Develop and deploy website according to customer specification and ensure the safety and predictability of this code if he has sence
Charge a little stipend for maintenance, means that the client can shout on him if the website is non responsive, so he wont hesitate/ decline refreshing things
Must sell source code, remember i said must(the client must ensure this is possible initially)

The client subset
Pay for webhosting and increase payment when higher storage and bandwidth is need to cope with increase in sales
(that is as much as I can remember for now..oh wait)
Own all customer details contained in the website

Subnet lincolnpix is not as bad as you make him to be...Let me give you a scenario, what if the ownership of your domain name is ascribed to him, it means you have to re-register a new company name(what a night mare)...people literally register domain names that the think will sell and wait for people to come and buy it off from them

lincolnpix gave you some right which is a good gesture from him and now you are asking for ascess to the database(I dont know if you are a programmer), the content is yours even without a written contract!!!!!!!!!!!, I advice you to tell him what you what to do...see the stages involved in software develpment are
1 finding out of requirement - means the programmer finds out what the client wants
2 the design - the programmer designs stuff, flowcharting and algorithim conception
3 implementation, translate client requirement and specification to codes(
4 .verification(Which you didnt do- the client verifies that software is designed to specification and can scale appropriately, lets leave scaling for now
5. maintenance - involving paying fees for website up keep


Also you are not clear about that you want the website to do, you dont need any access what so ever since you are not a web developer
, further more little tweaking can be ofset by maintenance fees

we are a family in NL and miss understanding should be settled amicable, unless the person is a scammer.

To help you I also want you to get to know the NL with moniker @avosoft, I was thinking he has the person you are talking about, men this guy is an all- rounder,hell-of-a-guy, he was ment to tweak my programme but I ended us solving by myself,his number is on his profile page, give him a call

What you should do are
1. ensure your domain name is owned and registered to you and you have sole right over it
2. use a company not an individual, (a small one for lower cost)... so your business doesn't come to an end if the person falls of the planet
3. agree on how you will be charge if you what to make addition to your website, afterall you previous you state your requirement and have been billed

Remain blessed
A Nler that has your interest at hand

Thanks a lot GuiltySpark343, you've nailed it better than me.

once again..
I'M NOT ASKING FOR A PENNY, the site is fully functional since the past 13 months, no issues.
Subset has access to the Admin control of the website.
He has access to the main features of the Hosting control panel only the Database is locked.

Afam4eva:

You guys are really getting me confused. Did she pay for hosting initially and did you order for a new hosting account for her or you just created an addon domain cos i don't understand how a hosting account will have other websites in it.

Ignorance is bliss. Most starter web hosting like fasthosts.co.uk come with one 'cpanel' which can hosts up to 500 sites. It appears that this Lincolnpix is a small operator. He should come clean and allow this subset to move his site to another hosts. Subset should be ready to forfeit the balance of his 'hosting plan'. To Lincolnpix, your 'contract' is unenforceable in any jurisdiction, so is unreliable. You are opening yourself to a lawsuit for recklessness. The website is bespoke (in the sense, that he commissioned you to do this for him,mor them anyway), so should not be treated as software as a service (saas), such as templates producers. Move this client to another host and move on.

We had a similar case, and the client won substantial damages as well as costs.

callmenow:


Ignorance is bliss. Most starter web hosting like fasthosts.co.uk come with one 'cpanel' which can hosts up to 500 sites. It appears that this Lincolnpix is a small operator. He should come clean and allow this subset to move his site to another hosts. Subset should be ready to forfeit the balance of his 'hosting plan'. To Lincolnpix, your 'contract' is unenforceable in any jurisdiction, so is unreliable. You are opening yourself to a lawsuit for recklessness. The website is bespoke (in the sense, that he commissioned you to do this for him,mor them anyway), so should not be treated as software as a service (saas), such as templates producers. Move this client to another host and move on.

We had a similar case, and the client won substantial damages as well as costs.

callmenow pseudo lawyer of NL

callmenow:


Ignorance is bliss. Most starter web hosting like fasthosts.co.uk come with one 'cpanel' which can hosts up to 500 sites. It appears that this Lincolnpix is a small operator. He should come clean and allow this subset to move his site to another hosts. Subset should be ready to forfeit the balance of his 'hosting plan'. To Lincolnpix, your 'contract' is unenforceable in any jurisdiction, so is unreliable. You are opening yourself to a lawsuit for recklessness. The website is bespoke (in the sense, that he commissioned you to do this for him,mor them anyway), so should not be treated as software as a service (saas), such as templates producers. Move this client to another host and move on.

We had a similar case, and the client won substantial damages as well as costs.

callmenow pseudo lawyer of NL.

Closedoor:
@OP, you can go after him in court and you will surely win. This lincolnpixel feels he is smart but like I have always told people I come in contact with, perfection can never be achieved.

He wants you to be scared but be a Man. In the terms of condition, number 2 he stated he owns the xhtml,css and codes and license it to you to use on this project alone. So OP this code belongs to you as long as you don't use it anywhere else. Lincolnpix is a stupid scammer who expects you to stop paying for your hosting so he can sell it to someone else. Stupid lincoln give him full access to his asset. If I were the one I will come after you, because I got igbo brothers everywhere in the world and your full name now. I hate scammers.

will be expecting u and ur brothers, olodo!

4llerbuntu:


This is so untrue that it gives one further insight to why you nigerian guys act like the lincoln guy has done.

Did the client pay for hosting?

so where in the terms of contract/payment did you state that you are going to park his website on shared hosting platform managed by you solely?

if this is your normal practice, better stop it.

You should always let clients know this little sticking points upfront before proceeding. Who says the client will want you to manage the site after building it?

there should be no restrictions. ever. you buy each client's domain name and hosting separately. not all these penny pinching, greedy practices.

Thanks for the reply.
I am on the side of subset (because he is the client)

But's lets not allow sentiments to override our reasoning.

Now my post was addressing general cases, since I do not have the specifics here.

I will want to assume you are a professional too since you have decided to give me professional advice

One, It is only in dedicated server hosting that the concept of 'unlimited access' to hosting account comes in.
A dedicated server machine comes in at the cost of upwards of a minimum of a million naira per year and it was never intended to handle 'one small project' (not just in Nigeria but all over the world).
Dedicated servers are meant to host several projects or a major project due to size or security concerns.

90% of projects the average developer works on will not require dedicated servers. Infact in this age of cloud systems, the concept of dedicated servers is being thrown out of the window. The standard practice in web computing is that resources are shared unless otherwise specified.
If you buy a space from amazon or even google (the biggest players) , do yo think it is dedicated ? Sorry to burst your bubble, unless otherwise specified, the answer is no. Even most ISP in Nigeria do not have full management of their hosting servers talkless of clients.

I have a VPS with Hostgater (the biggest non cloud based server hosters in the world) and i can't even change the 'effing' server clock. Why because it would affect other hosts on the machine (if you are not a professional , you won't understand). The support team suggest i change the time on my DB server installation or the config of the programme module of I'm using on my web server but not the server clock itself. If I can be limited , how much more my client.
So the concept of 'unlimited access' is a myth that marketers sell you. Unless you are buying a server machine, you can't have unlimited access.


As I said, the specifics of this case would determine a lot but hosting is generally assumed to be a 'managed' arrangement.

You can do whatever you want with your website (not my codes) and certainly not my server.

There are somethings that you can only relate with if you are in the field but the emboldened makes me doubt that

subset:


I wish I can quote everyone that have asked the question " what am I (the client) using the access to the database for? But I will use this quote to address the question

As spikesC, DualCore1, Afam4eva earlier mentioned

This is very clear, I'm displeased with the attitude of the current developer (lincoln). How can I be working with a developer that threatens to shut down my business because of 6days delay of his monthly maintenance fee --A maintenance fee I have No idea of until the project was completed. We were literally force into it as a means of extortion from him.

Currently, as I stated earlier, Lincoln is yet to complete the deliverable as regards to the website and he has refused to do that, all because we stopped paying him his monthly stipend.

At my own expense and time, I have outsourced a developer to give me what I want on the site but the greedy guy won't give me access to the codes

Funny part is, he also registered the domain name for us - I know this might sound stupid. But it was all because of the trust and relationship we had.

What's your opinion in this case?

Subset and Lincolnpix must accept that their working relationship has broken down. Subset must understand that all internet related services must be paid in advance. He must also realise that trust works both ways. If you agree to pay someone, don't test the person's fidelity by refusing or reneging on the deal. Your service provider is paying his service provider up the 'food chain'. Internet services has nothing to do with 'gentleman understanding'. Accept that you must move your hosting elsewhere to further your project. Lincolnpix must understand that this business has broken down irretrievably. Therefore, he needs to arrange to move the site away from his 'hosting'. This is a 'Lost' situation. Arguments will not resolve this matter favourably to either party.

There's only one thing I would say:

Science without Conscience leads to human destruction.

@lincolnpix

You ain't fair. Good Developers don't hold clients to ransom except for the fear of not being paid initial fees. What's so spectacular about your code or ERD that nobody ever wrote. If you are reasonable enough, you would be more concerned about your clients' ROI with which your bill would never be an headache cos no one starves the goose that lays the golden egg.

I don't mind spoiling P on my phone for this. The existence of your service should be your priority and not robbing ignorant minds.

Paschal, if you owe him any initial payment, please pay up cos Na your site he used learn work. 7 months no be small thing.

Let this people off the hook joor else I will show and give him access to the database since the client get cpanel access.

Mschew!!!

aristosoft:
There's only one thing I would say:

Science without Conscience leads to human destruction.

@lincolnpix

You ain't fair. Good Developers don't hold clients to ransom except for the fear of not being paid initial fees. What's so spectacular about your code or ERD that nobody ever wrote. If you are reasonable enough, you would be more concerned about your clients' ROI with which your bill would never be an headache cos no one starves the goose that lays the golden egg.

I don't mind spoiling P on my phone for this. The existence of your service should be your priority and not robbing ignorant minds.

Paschal, if you owe him any initial payment, please pay up cos Na your site he used learn work. 7 months no be small thing.

Let this people off the hook joor else I will show and give him access to the database since the client get cpanel access.

Mschew!!!

aristosoft the pro developer, kudos

callmenow:


Subset and Lincolnpix must accept that their working relationship has broken down. Subset must understand that all internet related services must be paid in advance. He must also realise that trust works both ways. If you agree to pay someone, don't test the person's fidelity by refusing or reneging on the deal. Your service provider is paying his service provider up the 'food chain'. Internet services has nothing to do with 'gentleman understanding'. Accept that you must move your hosting elsewhere to further your project. Lincolnpix must understand that this business has broken down irretrievably. Therefore, he needs to arrange to move the site away from his 'hosting'. This is a 'Lost' situation. Arguments will not resolve this matter favourably to either party.

Wise words, but the relationship breakdown might not be irreversible though the chances are slim. however, I have seen worse situations resolved.
But each must first realise and admit where they have gone wrong.

Frankly, my gut instinct tells me it is a case where both of them are trying to short change one another

@ lincolnpix
Please stop antagonizing those you feel are not in your support. It's in bad taste and gives a very bad impression.

You are a businessman and even if you are perfect, there are people who would still criticise your work, It part and parcel of the deal.
Wisdom is being able to separate constructive criticism and empty ones.

Customer relations is probably 50% of your job and in this field, everybody is a potential customer

Ydass... How far?
quote author=ydass post=35070891]


No No No, don't sound like this, it's not professional. Some clients can be really nasty. This is not a case of fraud just simple case of communication gap, misunderstanding or bridge of agreement.

Op is yet to tell us all the story, its either Op is trying to play a smart one on the developer. I have worked as a graphics artist, a UI developer and now a backend developer. I can tell you that some clients are very nasty especially the ones that are quick to report, they knw nothing about IT but they'll claim to have an idea.


[/quote]

GreatSoul:
@lincolnpix

It is obvious that your arrogance is stemming from the fact that you inserted
one ambiguous clause in the signed agreement but if you know enough about
law you will know that even signed contracts can be easily overturned in a court of law
under certain circumstances which I can enumerate for you if you like.
It is clear that your intentions from onset were dishonourable. You spotted the gap
in subset's knowledge and planned to fully exploit it to your shame.

Repeatedly, @Subset has stated that monthly maintenance was not part of this signed
agreement and yet you have not refuted this even once. You have set aside the original
contract you are relying upon by not appending this act of extortion by means of a monthly
charge to the original signed contract. In other words, you no longer have a 'locus standi' to
withhold any codes. You were smart but not smart enough so hide your greed by just
handing over his code to him and moving on to something else.

Failing this, i will encourage subset to take legal action against you. He will surely win.

For those asking what is subset's biz with the codes, it is clear that having seen the extortionist
tendencies in lincolnpix, he wants to move away from him. Which biz minded person will still ask why?

@Pak - Subset only took the decision to call someone else after lincolnpix turned mercenary.
You do not wait for permission from your enemy to defend yourself

Assist him with the legal fee.

pak:
@ lincolnpix
Please stop antagonizing those you feel are not in your support. It's in bad taste and gives a very bad impression.

You are a businessman and even if you are perfect, there are people who would still criticise your work, It part and parcel of the deal.
Wisdom is being able to separate constructive criticism and empty ones.

Customer relations is probably 50% of your job and in this field, everybody is a potential customer

Pak, u're right, everyone has an opinion not all opinions are equal. I don't want to continue this pointless communication.The customer has been proved to be a known crackpot.

Afam4eva:
I really don't I understand how a developer will build a site for someone and still reserve the right to own the codes. What exactly does that mean? I think the client made abgrave mistake by not going through the contract papers carefully before signing because as it is, based on what Lincolnpix has said and if true, will win this one in a court of law.

Having said that, we developers should try as much as possible to employ some level of kindness when dealing with people. I know its a business but we shouldn't go to any length to rip off clients who may not understand what they are signing up for.

I had a similar argument around this and I take it like this.. if you are in the employ of a company either contract or full-time, does any work or deals you executed not belong to the company since they paid for that service? even intellectual commodities are subject to the ownership of the company unless they were yours in the first place before you started work with the client.

I see a lot of developers talk about "My Codes". are your codes really Intellectual Property? is there some innovation you have come up with that you can really patent or claim sole rights to? is there an If or Then Statement that you somehow changed its behavior from what Microsoft intended it to be.. even that is infringing on IP rights of Microsoft.

How can you say something or some work someone paid you for is now your Intellectual Property. The only time I understood it from a professional perspective is when a developer turned his code for some website features into widgets he sold separately. e.g Webform Widget, Media Scroller Widget, CV/Resume Widget. but to say that functionality a client paid you for is now your IP that they cannot access because it is CODE.. that is pure unadulterated BS@# and people should learn to take things for what they are. is Microsoft charging you for using their tools to make profit?