fratermathy:


You laugh but what has Christianity done about our modern day suffering and terrorism??

Kikikiki Kikikikikikikikakakakakakaka Kikikiki Kikikikikikikikakakakakakaka Kikikiki Kikikikikikikikakakakakakaka Kikikiki Kikikikikikikikakakakakakaka Kikikiki Kikikikikikikikakakakakakaka

You said you've read the book "MANKIND SEARCH FOR GOD", if actually you have you'll know that God is not happy with the many practises going on in the world today in the name of serving God.... The fact that the suffering has continued for a long time now does not mean he doesn't care or have abandoned us.. Rather he keeps giving us the strength to continue to bear.. Acts 14:22, There they strengthened the disciples, encouraging them to remain in the faith and saying: “We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations..
God will act in a very little or no time, Révélation 21:3,4 Psalms 37:9,11,29

Alezy:
Yes all nu said about igbe is true but they don't worship God. what they do is self righteousness.

wait...how is that their indigenous belief??

Igbes worship GOD- Oweya is their name for God just as Allah is an Arabic term for God.


They believe the path to God is by purity, love and good deeds. This is the essential truth in all religions; Buddhism, Christianity, Hinduism, Zoroastrianism, Taoism, etc.


Igbe indigenous beliefs are numerous. For one they believe that putting on white clothes symbolise the purity of the soul
They believe that dancing is a route to reach God as the emotions are heightened when dancing
They believe that it is our deeds that determine our afterlife

These, and many more, inform their core tenets.

AmAlbert:


You said you've read the book "MANKIND SEARCH FOR GOD", if actually you have you'll know that God is not happy with the many practises going on in the world today in the name of serving God.... The fact that the suffering has continued for a long time now does not mean he doesn't care or have abandoned us.. Rather he keeps giving us the strength to continue to bear.. Acts 14:22, There they strengthened the disciples, encouraging them to remain in the faith and saying: “We must enter into the Kingdom of God through many tribulations..
God will act in a very little or no time, Révélation 21:3,4 Psalms 37:9,11,29

End time bullsh!t

The world was, is and ever shall be... No bible verse can change this, BRO!

Your recourse to quoting bible verses instead of approaching the matter you raised which I collaborated and counterfoiled is disturbing. What religion does to the mind.

fratermathy:


There is no true "earth religion" and even if there was, Christianity or Judaism has no right to it. We'd be looking at the early ancestral cults and animistic religions of Greek, Rome and Egypt. These religions, including Zoroastrianism, predate Christianity and Judaism by far!

Hey Mathy, Greek, Rome and Egypt are big kingdoms with beginnings. So any religion that originated from these kingdom can never be said to be the true earliest.

And when I said "Jewish religion", I don't mean the modern Judaism. I mean that practiced by Jews till Jesus fulfilled a greater portion of it and then presented the new "way" as a continuation.

fratermathy:


I've read this book over and over ahead. It's exciting as it presents a broad spectrum of religions.

By the way, I hope you are not recommending it to me to read because you think I am an Igbe member! Well, I am not a member but I have no prejudice towards their members. I respect them and I am fascinated with their practices as they represent a part of my culture which I am interested in.

No, not recommending because I think you are an Igbe, but because you referred to Christianity as white man's.

AgricSalt:


Hey Mathy, Greek, Rome and Egypt are big kingdoms with beginnings. So any religion that originated from these kingdom can never be said to be the true earliest.

And when I said "Jewish religion", I don't mean the modern Judaism. I mean that practiced by Jews till Jesus fulfilled a greater portion of it and then presented the new "way" as a continuation.

So you think ancient Judaism has no beginnings

I laugh at this display of ignorance.


Go into the history of religion and you'd realise that even before the belief in anthropomorphic beings, there were various forms of religions such as animism, fatalism, ancestral cults, fertility cults, mystery cults, etc. Anthropomorphic beings came in quite LATE and even at that, Judaism or Christianity was not the first. Zoroastrianism has a better argument to subsist as the first than Christianity. Heck, even Hinduism has a better chance than Christianity.

The problem is that you rely on the BIBLE as a primary document of history! Even Bible scholars who are proficient in Exegesis compare Biblical "stories" with historical accuracies and sadly, only a few Biblical stories, especially those in the Old testament period, are verifiable by modern historiographers.

Open your eyes and read wide, it still wont affect your christianity, BRO!

AgricSalt:


No, not recommending because I think you are an Igbe, but because you referred to Christianity as white man's.

As far as Africa is concerned, Christianity is a whiteman's religion! In Europe and America, the sentiment may be different because they are the "whiteman"!

And Fratermathy, another thing you will bear in mind is this fact: when I or any other Jehovah's Witness on this forum talks about Christianity, we are talking about the bible. Not the fake "Christianity" that those that claim to wait for God's rulership and still actively participate in politics throw on people's faces. No. We are talking about the first century Christianity.

fratermathy:


End time bullsh!t

The world was, is and ever shall be... No bible verse can change this, BRO!

Your recourse to quoting bible verses instead of approaching the matter you raised which I collaborated and counterfoiled is disturbing. What religion does to the mind.

Stop getting pained bruh, if yhu don't believe in the Bible even after claiming you're a Christian, well am sorry to disappoint you I Authoritatively do, moreover I never said the earth was gonna be destroyed
Ecclesiastics 1:4 A generation is going, and a generation is coming,But the earth remains forever. rather there's gonna be an overhaul of the elements (humans) who'll reside in a perfect and cleansed earth,
Please whatever argument or point you're trying to make/create about creation or about the worship of God without proof from the Bible is a NO NO for me.. Really sorry

bezimo:



If you can celebrate another religion with roots in idolatry your christianity is obviously complete fake.You can deceive yourself but not me.

Besides I used the word "many" not all. So I guess you are in the few I didnt include because your phrase of "defines us" "our culture" makes me think you might be on your own and alone in that line of thinking.

Your firebrand zealotry is commendable but it will score no points with me, my commendations of the igbe religion were from a cultural and historical standpoint while i declined proffering an opinion from a religious or spiritual standpoint given my professed Christianity, how difficult is that to understand? As a fellow christian i would hate to put myself in a situation where i will be judge over you so if it makes you feel better you're more christian and righteous than me. Happy? gosh!
When i said it is part of us, it includes you! That generalisation isn't optional historically so long as you have urhobo/isoko ancestry that predates western colonisation so go figure your holiness!

fratermathy:


As far as Africa is concerned, Christianity is a whiteman's religion! In Europe and America, the sentiment may be different because they are the "whiteman"!

"Europe" and "America" are not the cradle of Christinity.

fratermathy:


CHRISTIANITY HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH URBANISATION!!!
Infact, Religion in general is anti-development and anti-progressive.

It is a drug that must be eradicated for spirituality to subsist.


The great visionaries in USA, UK, Germany, China, etc are NOT CHRISTIANS!!! They are scientists who want to better their society.. Something we clearly lack in Nigeria!

The age of Christianity and the Church in Europe is called the "MEDIEVAL PERIOD" for a reason. Google that out.

Look at Galileo, Faraday, Einstein, Oppenheimer, Graham, Hawkings, Zuckerberg, etc and other world greatest minds- THEY ARE NOT CHRISTIANS!!! and these are the one who developed their nations simply because they are patriotic- something Nigerians clearly lack as well.

I am referring to activities in the past which set the foundation of what we see today.

Read this article and be enlightened from your ignorance so you can stop propagating it.

How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and the Success of the West
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/how-christianity-led-to-freedom-capitalism-and-the-success-of-the-west.html

fratermathy:


So you think ancient Judaism has no beginnings

I laugh at this display of ignorance.


Go into the history of religion and you'd realise that even before the belief in anthropomorphic beings, there were various forms of religions such as animism, fatalism, ancestral cults, fertility cults, mystery cults, etc. Anthropomorphic beings came in quite LATE and even at that, Judaism or Christianity was not the first. Zoroastrianism has a better argument to subsist as the first than Christianity. Heck, even Hinduism has a better chance than Christianity.

The problem is that you rely on the BIBLE as a primary document of history! Even Bible scholars who are proficient in Exegesis compare Biblical "stories" with historical accuracies and sadly, only a few Biblical stories, especially those in the Old testament period, are verifiable by modern historiographers.

Open your eyes and read wide, it still wont affect your christianity, BRO!

I'm a preacher of religion. Ignorance is not what can be attributed to me when the discourse is religion.

Well ancient Judaism as you like to call it has beginnings. Is that what we are debating? Even the world has a beginning. We are talking about the earliest.

AgricSalt:


I'm a preacher of religion. Ignorance is not what can be attributed to me when the discourse is religion.

Well ancient Judaism as you like to call it has beginnings. Is that what we are debating? Even the world has a beginning. We are talking about the earliest.

You are a preacher.. Well I AM A SCHOLAR AND TEACHER of RELIGION!!!


The earliest religion, simply put, is NOT JUDAISM. Whoever told you so was trying to feel important.

AmAlbert:


Stop getting pained bruh, if yhu don't believe in the Bible even after claiming you're a Christian, well am sorry to disappoint you I Authoritatively do, moreover I never said the earth was gonna be destroyed
Ecclesiastics 1:4 A generation is going, and a generation is coming,But the earth remains forever. rather there's gonna be an overhaul of the elements (humans) who'll reside in a perfect and cleansed earth,
Please whatever argument or point you're trying to make/create about creation or about the worship of God without proof from the Bible is a NO NO for me.. Really sorry

People who cannot argue with verifiable facts rather than "stories" are not even worthy of my time. However, I can best you in any argument you may want to present. I did not claim to be a Christian. I said I was born a Christian.

That your doomsday prophecy shall happen only to you and your people ALONE because as far as I know, and as far as science knows, this world has been around for billions of years! One supernatural event wont change that. We've had several of your JW prophecies about the end of the world since the 19th century and NONE OF THEM HAS EVER COME TO PASS! Have you ever asked why? Now this is where you quote more rubbish concocted and self serving bible verses... Over to you.

bezimo:


I am referring to activities in the past which set the foundation of what we see today.

Read this article and be enlightened from your ignorance so you can stop propagating it.

How Christianity Led to Freedom, Capitalism, and the Success of the West
http://www.catholiceducation.org/en/culture/catholic-contributions/how-christianity-led-to-freedom-capitalism-and-the-success-of-the-west.html

Articles like this are written by Christians to serve Christian purposes much like conspiracy theorist do with their theories.


Show me a link of any scholarly/academic research that proves that there is a correlation between Christianity and development because it behoves my reasoning that Israel and Jerusalem, the birth places of Christianity will be derelict while USA and UK, where Christianity was "taken" to, would be developed. What a logic!!! Continue on that stream of thought... Im ready for you.

Saudi Arabia and Dubai are one of the most beautiful places in the world today. Christianity is not there!
China, Hong Kong, Japan and Russia are advanced and developed. Christianity had no role to play there too!
Even Germany is arguably unchristian in tone and temper
The so-called USA and UK now need African missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses to proselytise to the people who are largely atheists or indifferent.

Yet Nigeria, one of the most religious places on earth is a beehive of suffering, poverty and intolerance. How ironic!!!

AgricSalt:


"Europe" and "America" are not the cradle of Christinity.

Neither was that inferred or did you deduce that from my statement . I think I finally understanding your reasoning faculty.

AgricSalt:
And Fratermathy, another thing you will bear in mind is this fact: when I or any other Jehovah's Witness on this forum talks about Christianity, we are talking about the bible. Not the fake "Christianity" that those that claim to wait for God's rulership and still actively participate in politics throw on people's faces. No. We are talking about the first century Christianity.

Noted! Although it makes no difference as it does not affect my argument.

fratermathy:



You are a preacher.. Well I AM A SCHOLAR AND TEACHER of RELIGION!!!


The earliest religion, simply put, is NOT JUDAISM. Whoever told you so was trying to feel important.

I'm not particularly into this debate to win. But we all have reasoning capability. So without trying to castigate "whoever" told me that Ancient Judaism is the earliest. Can you state the earliest by reasonably linking it to Adam - the first man. Or if you have leanings to evolutionists, you can maybe link it to bingo the first ape.

The Yoruba Ifa is also a Monotheistic religion and has been in existence for hundrerds of years.

fratermathy:


Neither was that inferred or did you deduce that from my statement . I think I finally understanding your reasoning faculty.

Hey Mathy I'm intelligent. You can never water down my argument by attacking my person. Face the substance of our talk. Forget my "reasoning faculty".

After all I haven't claimed I'm the most wise among all those that believe in what I believe in.

ISLAM was never founded in nigeria.

AgricSalt:


I'm not particularly into this debate to win. But we all have reasoning capability. So without trying to castigate "whoever" told me that Ancient Judaism is the earliest. Can you state the earliest by reasonably linking it to Adam - the first man. Or if you have leanings to evolutionists, you can maybe link it to bingo the first ape.

I do not subscribe to Adamic philosophy. I am more of an evolutionist.

I am also not in this debate by virtue of choice but as an obligation to defend my culture and its practices, anywhere and anytime, from any self-righteous chap who dares to call it Idolatry.



As for your question, goto this link:https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timeline_of_religion

Scroll down to 100th to 34th century BCE and read. However, I quote a section for you:

The Neolithic Revolution begins and results in a worldwide population explosion. The first cities, states, kingdoms, and organized religions begin to emerge. The early states were usually theocracies, in which the political power is justified by religious prestige. Beginning of First Sangam, Hinduism 'Shivan' period in South India

From the above, we can see that Hinduism is the FIRST RELIGION based on ARCHEOLOGICAL, VERIFIABLE and HISTORICAL FINDINGS!!!
If you are countering this, do so with objective and rational facts, not the fantasy book you quickly run to when lost.

fratermathy:


There is no true "earth religion" and even if there was, Christianity or Judaism has no right to it. We'd be looking at the early ancestral cults and animistic religions of Greek, Rome and Egypt. These religions, including Zoroastrianism, predate Christianity and Judaism by far!

You have not told a lie bros. What you said has just confirmed the truth of the DOCTRINE OF THE UFOS. check my signature to know more.

Demmzy15:
'Igbe' in yoruba means sh't

It is not pronounced that way as you think in Yoruba. It's pronounced like 'Igbe' as in 'Igberaga'(Pride) in Yoruba. Thank God say i sabi small Yoruba. *cleans sweat.

AgricSalt:


Hey Mathy I'm intelligent. You can never water down my argument by attacking my person. Face the substance of our talk. Forget my "reasoning faculty".

After all I haven't claimed I'm the most wise among all those that believe in what I believe in.

I also find your reasoning faculty quite disturbing though.


However you were given a logical question and you dodged it by focusing on the second part of the statement.


Talk about intelligence!!!

Mathy never claimed to be the most wise as well... So what's your point here?

fratermathy:


Articles like this are written by Christians to serve Christian purposes much like conspiracy theorist do with their theories.


Show me a link of any scholarly/academic research that proves that there is a correlation between Christianity and development because it behoves my reasoning that Israel and Jerusalem, the birth places of Christianity will be derelict while USA and UK, where Christianity was "taken" to, would be developed. What a logic!!! Continue on that stream of thought... Im ready for you.

Saudi Arabia and Dubai are one of the most beautiful places in the world today. Christianity is not there!
China, Hong Kong, Japan and Russia are advanced and developed. Christianity had no role to play there too!
Even Germany is arguably unchristian in tone and temper
The so-called USA and UK now need African missionaries and Jehovah's Witnesses to proselytise to the people who are largely atheists or indifferent.

Yet Nigeria, one of the most religious places on earth is a beehive of suffering, poverty and intolerance. How ironic!!!

Well said, and my mission on earth is to put an end to all religion. THE DOCTRINE OF THE UFOS is here, let Jesus and Jehovah(Satan) start packing their loads to return to their land of nativity.

fratermathy:


People who cannot argue with verifiable facts rather than "stories" are not even worthy of my time. However, I can best you in any argument you may want to present. I did not claim to be a Christian. I said I was born a Christian.

That your doomsday prophecy shall happen only to you and your people ALONE because as far as I know, and as far as science knows, this world has been around for billions of years! One supernatural event wont change that. We've had several of your JW prophecies about the end of the world since the 19th century and NONE OF THEM HAS EVER COME TO PASS! Have you ever asked why? Now this is where you quote more rubbish concocted and self serving bible verses... Over to you.

The funny and very bitter to say truth is that YOU'RE PAINED & MISGUIDED, I never quoted myself rather I quoted the Bible, it's your headache whether you believe in the Bible or not as for me I AUTHORITATIVELY DO, so let's keep watching while the events unfolds but at the interim you could keep very busy with your Atheistic Religion Movement or whatever you call it in the name of Religion..
2 peter3:13, Révélation 16:14, I bet you it'll do you a lot of good to consider these quotations so you'll come to know the truth that liberates and gives freedom. this is the last comment I'll make to you on this subject, you'll have to answer to your subsequent quoting me by yourself

AmAlbert:


The funny and very bitter to say truth is that YOU'RE PAINED & MISGUIDED, I never quoted myself rather I quoted the Bible, it's your headache whether you believe in the Bible or not as for me I AUTHORITATIVELY DO, so let's keep watching while the events unfolds but at the interim you could keep very busy with your Atheistic Religion Movement or whatever you call it in the name of Religion..
2 peter3:13, Révélation 16:14, I bet you it'll do you a lot of good to consider these quotations so you'll come to know the truth that liberates and gives freedom. this is the last comment I'll make to you on this subject, you'll have to answer to your subsequent quoting me by yourself

You can run away. We wont blame you. You've made a big mess so far.
Those Bible verses you quoted wont bail you on this issue. Answer the question: how many times have JW predicted ultimate doom? How many times have they ever happened?
Secondly, you think a book of prophecy is believable than many years of research and scientific facts about the world we live in today?
Get ready for a long ride because you will die, at old age of course, and leave this life the way it is and so shall your children and unborn generations to come. AS IT WAS IN THE BEGINNING, IT IS NOW AND EVER SHALL BE, WORLD WITHOUT END. AMEN!!!

fratermathy:

From the above, we can see that Hinduism is the FIRST RELIGION based on ARCHEOLOGICAL, VERIFIABLE and HISTORICAL FINDINGS!!!
If you are countering this, do so with objective and rational facts, not the fantasy book you quickly run to when lost.

(1). 'Some historians say that Hinduism had its roots over 3,500 years ago In a wave of migration that brought a pale-skinned, Aryan people down from the northwest into the Indus Valley, now located mainly in Pakistan and India.'

(2). 'One reason is that the roots of the Jewish religion go back some 4,000 years in history and other major religions are indebted to its Scriptures to a greater or lesser degree'.

bukster:
The Yoruba Ifa is also a Monotheistic religion and has been in existence for hundrerds of years.

Iro ni