Rilwayne001:


Malviguy is not just dumb, he is super-dumb. Maybe because he dropped out of secondary school at the very crucial age when he needs education. He is showing the effect of half education. The other minions on this thread are deliberately foolish. No doubt any reasonable individual reading this thread will notice that.

You sef have time for them .

rotfl!

Demmzy15:

Bros Rilwayne001 wallahi this guy is sooo dumb, he created threads about this nonsense and he was refuted to the core. https://www.nairaland.com/2408973/explanation-wanted

Even on plainbibletruth thread, he asked about the Kaaba and the black Stone and it was explained thoroughly for this lying hypocrite https://www.nairaland.com/2410291/which-son-did-god-ask/3

Malvisguy212 you made a point about Moses destroying the idols himself, didn't the Prophet Muhammad destroy the idols in the Kaaba too? Guy you're so dumb!!

you guys are soo deluded, did Moses sanctioned pagan worship like muhammed did ? Moses destroyed the golden calf but muhammed , when he destroyed the idols in the kabba, he did not destroyed the BLACK STONE.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8,
Number 392:
Narrated Bara’ bin ‘Azib: Allah’s
Apostle prayed facing Baitul-
Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen
months but he loved to face the
Ka’ba (at Mecca) so Allah revealed:
“Verily, We have seen the turning of
your face to the heaven!” ( Surah 2 Al-
Baqarah 144) So the Prophet faced
the Ka’ba and the fools amongst the
people namely “the Jews” said,
“What has turned them from their
Qibla (Bait-ul-Maqdis) which they
formerly observed” (Allah revealed):
“Say: ‘To Allah belongs the East and
the West. He guides whom he will to a
straight path’.” ( Surah 2 Al-Baqarah
142).
Why did Muhammad express a desire to pray facing the Ka’ba while it remained a pagan shrine? At the time when Surah 2:144 was revealed to change the Qiblah from Jerusalem to Mecca,the Ka’ba was still a pagan shrine housing 360 pagan idols.Why would Allah permit his Prophet to bow towards the Ka’ba while it was still polluted with 360 pagan idols? The command given in the Qur’an to change the Qiblah predates by years the conquest of Mecca. Those idols were destroyed only after the conquest of Mecca. Thus, during all those intervening years, between the time the Qiblah was changed towards the Ka’ba and the
conquest of Mecca, whenever Muhammad faced the Ka’ba to pray, the
Ka’ba remained a shrine of idol worship.

This is not an insignificant matter in
terms of worship. Why was Muhammad
not commanded to wait until the removal of those idols? Why did Allah submit to Muhammad’s desire and as a result make it a requirement for the early Muslims to bow towards the direction of the pagan idols, whenever they approach him in prayer during all those intervening years? Did not Allah say, “To Allah belongs the East and the West”? Why, then must the prayers of the Muslims be directed towards the pagan shrine in order to reach the ears of Allah? Notice the commanding tone of Allah in Surah 2:144:

“Wherever ye are, turn your faces in
that direction.”

The following Hadith clearly shows that
the idols were destroyed only after the
conquest of Mecca which took place
several years later after the Qiblah was
changed towards the Ka’ba.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59,
Number 583:
Narrated By Abdullah: When the
Prophet entered Mecca on the day of
the Conquest, there were 360 idols
around the Ka’ba.

Now we will consider another serious
problem in Islam.

Surah 2:125: “And when WE MADE THE
HOUSE (at Mecca) a resort for
mankind and sanctuary, (saying):
Take as your place of worship the
place where Abraham stood (to pray).
And We imposed a duty upon
Abraham and Ishmael, (saying):
PURIFY MY HOUSE My for those who go
around and those who meditate
therein and those who bow down and
prostrate themselves (in worship)
.” (Pickthall)

According to Islam, Allah is said to have
built the Ka’ba centuries before the time
of Judaism and Christianity. It was
supposedly restructured later by
Abraham and Ishmael. The Ka’ba also
known as “Baitullah” means “House of
Allah.” Now, how did the “House of
Allah” which was “made by Allah”
become a pagan temple housing 360
pagan idols? How can a House of God
become a pagan Temple of Idols? Why
did Allah allow this to occur to his place
of worship? If the Ka’ba was the original
“House of Allah” as the Qur’an asserts,
then there is absolutely no logical or
theological reason as to why Muhammad directed the first Qiblah towards Jerusalem – unless he believed that it was holier than the Ka’ba.

Muhammad destroyed the rest of the
idols at the conquest of Mecca but left
the preeminent idol of the Ka’ba – the
Black Stone – untouched. Why? It was
simply due to deep-rooted
subconsciousness brought on by years of submission to stone worship. He not only had to leave the Black Stone unharmed to represent Islam but he also kissed it to show his affection for the pagan stone.

The Black Stone that was sacred to the
pagans became sacred to the Muslims
and is now revered by them. The kiss
that the pious Muslim pilgrims bestow on the Black Stone is a survival of the old pagan practice, which was a form of
stone worship in Arabia. While Christians can clearly see this as absolute idolatry, Islam is blind to this abomination. Even the Egyptian writer, Muhammad Husayn Haykal, who relies heavily on the works of Ibn Hisham, admitted in his book, The Life of Muhammad (p. 30):

In fact, the Arabs venerated these
stones so much that not only did
they worship the black stone in the
Ka’bah, but also they would take
one of the stones of the Ka’bah as a
holy object in their travels, praying
to it and asking it to bless every
move they made.

Demmzy15:

Yes and hope it's not your problem, Christians baptised themselves in River Jordan during pilgrimage because Jesus and other disciples did.

Because Allah commanded us to.


If you were paying attention, we mentioned earlier that she was looking for water.


I posted an answer to either you or truthman2012, go back and read


Why do Christians go for pilgrimage?

Guy stop asking unreasonable questions, you aren't asking to know more but to show your folly.

There is absolutely nothing in history to prove Muslims' claim that these rituals were practiced by Adam, Noah and Abraham. Any claim that it is so is nothing but pure myth, totally unverifiable in history. Most of these rituals including the Hajj have been shown by history to be solely of Arab pagan origin. 

There is no evidence in history, apart from that concocted by Islam, to prove that Abraham or even Hagar were ever in Mecca. The bringing in of Abraham is to give islam's absurdity a makeover. 

It is clear that Mohammed sought ways to attract Jews, Christians and even the pagans to his new religion. The initial worship facing Jerusalem must have been an attempt at this to gain Jewish support. The running between two mountains is  certainly to draw the pagans into his new religion as seen by the reduction in Meccan opposition to him after the incorporation of this ritual into his religion. 

In order to make them attractive to those he wanted to bring into his new religion Mohammed became very imaginative and drew from the different beliefs of the people around him and attached his own meanings to the rituals as he felt convenient.

plainbibletruth:


There is absolutely nothing in history to prove Muslims' claim that these rituals were practiced by Adam, Noah and Abraham. Any claim that it is so is nothing but pure myth, totally unverifiable in history. Most of these rituals including the Hajj have been shown by history to be solely of Arab pagan origin.

Really? Please proves.

[b]There is no evidence in history, apart from that concocted by Islam, to prove that Abraham or even Hagar were ever in Mecca. [/b]The bringing in of Abraham is to give islam's absurdity a makeover.

I don't need any prove for that, Allah has confirmed it so that's OK by me! Shikena

[s]It is clear that Mohammed sought ways to attract Jews, Christians and even the pagans to his new religion. The initial worship facing Jerusalem must have been an attempt at this to gain Jewish support. The running between two mountains is  certainly to draw the pagans into his new religion as seen by the reduction in Meccan opposition to him after the incorporation of this ritual into his religion.[/s]

Nonsense, you've started again ba? Typical fan of Sam Shamoun

In order to make them attractive to those he wanted to bring into his new religion Mohammed became very imaginative and drew from the different beliefs of the people around him and attached his own meanings to the rituals as he felt convenient. 

**yawns** read our above posts, I tried to be reasonable with you but I can see you don't deserve it.

malvisguy212:
(1) Both Hindu and Muslim male
devotees are required to shave their
heads during their pilgrimage.
(2) And similar to their Hindu counterparts, male Muslim pilgrims are
also required to dress in a garment
consisting of two sheets of white cloth.
This type of garment is known as Dhoti in Hinduism.
(3) Just as the worshippers of Shiva
observe a rite in which they walk around their object of reverence seven times,Muslim pilgrims also walk around the Ka’ba seven times.
(4) Both their objects of reverence are
Black Stones. In Hinduism, the Black
Stone is known as Shiva lingam.
(5) While Hindus drink water from the
Ganga River as part of the sacred rites in their worship of Shiva, Muslims drink
from the Well of Zamzam during the
Hajj.
(6) Additionally, the Crescent moon, which is associated with the Hindu deity
Shiva, is also a symbol for Islam. In the
Hindu portrayal of the Shiva symbol, the crescent moon is always painted across his forehead. Moreover, in every
portrayal of Shiva, there is always a
depiction of a snake curled around his
neck. Weirdly, in pre-Islamic times, Allah is supposed to have sent a snake to guard the treasures of the Ka’ba.

7) And Jesus had beard like that of Muslims
Additionally, nuns cover up like Muslims sisters n women

malvisguy212:
you guys are soo deluded, did Moses sanctioned pagan worship like muhammed did ? Moses destroyed the golden calf but muhammed , when he destroyed the idols in the kabba, he did not destroyed the BLACK STONE.

You like running your mouth anyhow, do Muslims bow down to the black stone? Do we ask for favours through the black stone?! Better think before you type, do you even know the source of the black Stone before you require it's destroyed?

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 1, Book 8,
Number 392:
Narrated Bara’ bin ‘Azib: Allah’s
Apostle prayed facing Baitul-
Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen
months but he loved to face the
Ka’ba (at Mecca) so Allah revealed:
“Verily, We have seen the turning of
your face to the heaven!” ( Surah 2 Al-
Baqarah 144) So the Prophet faced
the Ka’ba and the fools amongst the
people namely “the Jews” said,
“What has turned them from their
Qibla (Bait-ul-Maqdis) which they
formerly observed” (Allah revealed):
“Say: ‘To Allah belongs the East and
the West. He guides whom he will to a
straight path’.” ( Surah 2 Al-Baqarah
142).

Narrated by Bara' bin 'Azib
Allah's Apostle prayed facing Baitul-Maqdis for sixteen or seventeen months but he loved to face the Ka'ba (at Mecca) so Allah revealed: "Verily, We have seen the turning of your face to the heaven!" (2:144) So the Prophet faced the Ka'ba and the fools amongst the people namely "the Jews" said, "What has turned them from their Qibla (Bait-ul-Maqdis) which they formerly observed"" (Allah revealed): "Say: 'To Allah belongs the East and the West. He guides whom he will to a straight path'." (2:142) A man prayed with the Prophet (facing the Ka'ba) and went out. He saw some of the Ansar praying the 'Asr prayer with their faces towards Bait-ul-Maqdis, he said, "I bear witness that I prayed with Allah's Apostle facing the Ka'ba." So all the people turned their faces towards the Ka'ba.

Why did Muhammad express a desire to pray facing the Ka’ba while it remained a pagan shrine? At the time when Surah 2:144 was revealed to change the Qiblah from Jerusalem to Mecca,the Ka’ba was still a pagan shrine housing 360 pagan idols.Why would Allah permit his Prophet to bow towards the Ka’ba while it was still polluted with 360 pagan idols? The command given in the Qur’an to change the Qiblah predates by years the conquest of Mecca. Those idols were destroyed only after the conquest of Mecca. Thus, during all those intervening years, between the time the Qiblah was changed towards the Ka’ba and the
conquest of Mecca, whenever Muhammad faced the Ka’ba to pray, the
Ka’ba remained a shrine of idol worship.

I ask you this question, when Muslims were asked to change Qibla to the Kaaba what happened to the Makkah in a short time? It looks like you're trying to play smart, huh? I quote from http://www.onislam.net/english/ask-about-islam/faith-and-worship/aspects-of-worship/167429-al-aqsa-mosque-and-the-qiblah.html

[b][size=14pt]"[/size]AL-ISRAA' AND AL-MIRAJ

This stage started from the event of Al-Israa' and Al-Miraj (Night Journey and Ascension), the night in which five daily prayers were firstly prescribed. On that day, Almighty Allah made it obligatory for Muslims to pray five times a day and that happened while the Prophet was still in Makkah.

The direction Muslims were commanded to face at that time was the Ka`bah in Makkah on the condition that it has to be faced in a way that make them face Al-Aqsa Mosque in Jerusalem at the same time.

Obviously, facing the direction of Al-Aqsa Mosque while in Makkah means facing the Ka`bah at the same time, simply because the geographical location of Makkah happens to be south east of Jerusalem and therefore, Muslims were facing two qiblahs at the one time. (Muhammed Abu Zahra, Khatim Al-Nabiyeen, Vol. 2, Dar Al-Fikr Al-Arabi, 2004 pp. 538)

BEFORE THE BATTLE

After sixteen or seventeen months of facing Jerusalem, and right before the Battle of Badr which marked the true confrontation between truth and falsehood and the beginning of the collapse of idolatry, the Prophet received commands from his Lord to face the Ka`bah again; i.e. to get back to the first qiblah.

The happiness of the Prophet and the Muslim community with the command was great and significant. It proved to them that soon the idols will be removed from around the Ka`bah and it will be purified. Not long time afterwards that the Prophet returned to Makkah and the Divine grace was completed upon him.

With regard to the issue of the idols around the Ka`bah, it should be understood that the Prophet was not facing the idols; rather, he was facing the Ka`bah and [size=14pt]the idols were around not inside or beside it."[/size][/b]

So I hope you perfectly understand?

This is not an insignificant matter in
terms of worship. Why was Muhammad
not commanded to wait until the removal of those idols?

Are you trying to question the Almighty? Bera be careful o!

Why did Allah submit to Muhammad’s desire and as a result make it a requirement for the early Muslims to bow towards the direction of the pagan idols, whenever they approach him in prayer during all those intervening years? Did not Allah say, “To Allah belongs the East and the West”? Why, then must the prayers of the Muslims be directed towards the pagan shrine in order to reach the ears of Allah? Notice the commanding tone of Allah in Surah 2:144:

“Wherever ye are, turn your faces in
that direction.”

You need to know under which circumstances the verses of the Quran are revealed. If you continue like this, then you're not different from boko-are-rams and ISIS because they all jump into conclusions without even knowing they're wrong. This verse was revealed when some Jews were pissed off because the Qibla was changed, so Allah commanded to tell them he(Allaah) owns all directions so it's not their business in whichever direction he faces.

The following Hadith clearly shows that
the idols were destroyed only after the
conquest of Mecca which took place
several years later after the Qiblah was
changed towards the Ka’ba.

Sahih Bukhari, Volume 5, Book 59,
Number 583:
Narrated By Abdullah: When the
Prophet entered Mecca on the day of
the Conquest, there were 360 idols
around the Ka’ba.

Your deception is exposed, here is what the hadith actually states.
Narrated `Abdullah:
When the Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) entered Mecca on the day of the Conquest, there were 360 idols [size=14pt]around[/size] the Ka`ba. The Prophet (sallallaahu alayhi wa sallam) started striking them with a stick he had in his hand and was saying, "Truth has come and Falsehood will neither start nor will it reappear."

Fraudster open your eyes well, you're just embarrassing yourself here.

Now we will consider another serious
problem in Islam.

For hin mind o! OK lets go!

Surah 2:125: “And when WE MADE THE
HOUSE (at Mecca) a resort for
mankind and sanctuary, (saying):
Take as your place of worship the
place where Abraham stood (to pray).
And We imposed a duty upon
Abraham and Ishmael, (saying):
PURIFY MY HOUSE My for those who go
around and those who meditate
therein and those who bow down and
prostrate themselves (in worship)
.” (Pickthall)

According to Islam, Allah is said to have
built the Ka’ba centuries before the time
of Judaism and Christianity. It was
supposedly restructured later by
Abraham and Ishmael. The Ka’ba also
known as “Baitullah” means “House of
Allah.” Now, how did the “House of
Allah” which was “made by Allah”
become a pagan temple housing 360
pagan idols? How can a House of God
become a pagan Temple of Idols? Why
did Allah allow this to occur to his place
of worship?

God has his reasons for doing things in which can be mysterious to us. Everything was purified when the Prophet Muhammad(the only one from the progeny of Ishmael) came. Now when we look at what "God's Chosen" people did under his watch, then you can say God is indeed a Patient God.
"They built for themselves high places in all their cities . . . . They set up for themselves sacred pillars and wooden images on every high hill and under every green tree; and there they burned incense on all the high places, as the nations had done whom the LORD had carried away before them." (verses 9-11). Further, they "followed idols, became idolaters, and . . . made for themselves a molded image and two calves, made a wooden image and worshipped all the host of heaven, and served Baal" (verses 15-16)." Summary of 2 Kings 17:5-17

[s]If the Ka’ba was the original
“House of Allah” as the Qur’an asserts,
then there is absolutely no logical or
theological reason as to why Muhammad directed the first Qiblah towards Jerusalem – unless he believed that it was holier than the Ka’ba.[/s]

Repeating the same old crap, grow up bro and stop behaving like a robot.

Muhammad destroyed the rest of the
idols at the conquest of Mecca but left
the preeminent idol of the Ka’ba – the
Black Stone – untouched. Why? It was
simply due to deep-rooted
subconsciousness brought on by years of submission to stone worship. He not only had to leave the Black Stone unharmed to represent Islam but he also kissed it to show his affection for the pagan stone.

You're yet to show me anywhere in the Quran or Hadeeth in which the Prophet Muhammad commanded Muslims to bow down, worship and ask favours through the black stone. This trash is coming from a dude whose colleagues and probably himself are know for treating the cross like a god. Your churches are filled with images of Christ and his mother in which you Christians venerate.

What you should know about the black stone is that, it was placed by Abraham and Ishmael after building the Kaaba. So that's why it's respected, you Christians respect stuffs from people of the old. So why criticise Islam?

The Black Stone that was sacred to the
pagans became sacred to the Muslims
and is now revered by them. The kiss
that the pious Muslim pilgrims bestow on the Black Stone is a survival of the old pagan practice, which was a form of
stone worship in Arabia. While Christians can clearly see this as absolute idolatry, Islam is blind to this abomination.

@emboldened so when you kiss your ring, it's now a god right? Why are you like this now?! Guy use your head, don't be dumb.

Now does your Bible allow you to worship bricks and stones in this verse:
"I will bow down toward your holy temple and will praise your name for your love and your faithfulness, for you have exalted above all things your name and your word." Psalm 138:2

I attached a picture below showing Christian pilgrims kissing and romancing the Holy Sepulchre Of Christ, I hope you consider this idol worship or grave worship.

Even the Egyptian writer, Muhammad Husayn Haykal, who relies heavily on the works of Ibn Hisham, admitted in his book, The Life of Muhammad (p. 30):

In fact, the Arabs venerated these
stones so much that not only did
they worship the black stone in the
Ka’bah, but also they would take
one of the stones of the Ka’bah as a
holy object in their travels, praying
to it and asking it to bless every
move they made.

Firstly, did Husayn Haykal claim the Muslims were bowing down, praying to it or any of the above you mentioned after the Prophet Muhammad conquered Makkah? Don't be confused, the pagan Arabs indeed over venerated the black stone, but it wasn't among the 360 idols.

Secondly, I have this book you're talking about. In fact it's the pdf I have and I didn't see the above, I even posted a screenshot of the book. Please check again and correct, I hope you're using takkiyah?

[quote author=Demmzy15 post=36207965][/quote]

Really? Please proves.

I don't need any prove for that, Allah has confirmed it so that's OK by me! Shikena

You want me to prove but you don't want to prove.
Anyhow, see: Encyclopedia Britannica
First Encyclopedia of Islam

Nonsense, you've started again ba? Typical fan of Sam Shamoun

Who is he? In NL?

**yawns** read our above posts, I tried to be reasonable with you but I can see you don't deserve it.

The fact that most of these rituals are NOT FOUND in the Quran (which ordinarily should be regarded more than anything else) but in the traditions speaks volume. We see extra-quranic materials given more prominence than that which is supposed to be the holy book. How Muslims fail to see the red-flag in this beats comprehension. 

What we see is actually the Islamization of pagan rituals.

Demmzy15:

Lmaooooo! Old man is already conceding defeat!

Jagoon aka jargons I no get ya time u hear?!

Look at the length of the posts you have been writing on this thread but when it comes to answering a few questions, you said ''you no get your time'' because you cannot answer them. Shame!

Let me repeat the questions for you again:

What is the reason for pagans' compatibility with islamic worship system? Why were they worshiping their idols the same way you worship Allah?

Why did pagans join Muhammad and they both prayed islamically if they were not worshiping the same deity?

If you run away from the questions now, they will keep hunting you.

truthman2012:


Look at the length of the posts you have been writing on this thread but when it comes to answering a few questions, you said ''you no get your time'' because you cannot answer them. Shame!

Let me repeat the questions for you again:

What is the reason for pagans' compatibility with islamic worship system? Why were they worshiping their idols the same way you worship Allah?

Why did pagans join Muhammad and they both prayed islamically if they were not worshiping the same deity?

If you run away from the questions now, they will keep hunting you.

Answer is the Islam is a pagan religion masquerading as a true religion by plagiarising parts of the bible and adopting abraham as a patriarch to gain credibility.

plainbibletruth:







You want me to prove but you don't want to prove.
Anyhow, see: Encyclopedia Britannica
First Encyclopedia of Islam



Who is he? In NL?



The fact that most of these rituals are NOT FOUND in the Quran (which ordinarily should be regarded more than anything else) but in the traditions speaks volume. We see extra-quranic materials given more prominence than that which is supposed to be the holy book. How Muslims fail to see the red-flag in this beats comprehension. 

What we see is actually the Islamization of pagan rituals. 

Look can you leave me alone? If you can't comprehend, then I can't force you. I have presented proofs from the Quran, hadith and even tafsir but you still want to claim boss when in fact you're a kid.

The Quran commanded us to obey the Prophet and his words are found outside the Quran like the hadeeth, etc

"O ye who believe! Obey Allah, and obey the Messenger, and those charged with authority among you. If ye differ in anything among yourselves, refer it to Allah and His Messenger, if ye do believe in Allah and the Last Day: That is best, and most suitable for final determination. Qur’an 4:59

truthman2012:


Look at the length of the posts you have been writing on this thread but when it comes to answering a few questions, you said ''you no get your time'' because you cannot answer them. Shame!

Let me repeat the questions for you again:

What is the reason for pagans' compatibility with islamic worship system? Why were they worshiping their idols the same way you worship Allah?

Why did pagans join Muhammad and they both prayed islamically if they were not worshiping the same deity?

If you run away from the questions now, they will keep hunting you.

If I didn't answer your questions, then go back and see my replies to others on this thread. You aren't making any sense, you want me to keep repeating myself. When I refute, you come again and ask the same question in another form. Guy leave me alone.

All these foolish religious extremist arguing about religion...... The way you guys potray God like he is some evil maniac


This God placed almost two billion people in muslim homes and placed over two billion people in christianity..... And some people were born to idol worshippers

Going by your crazy theories of one religion being the only route to heaven....... Why would God want to punish humanity in such manner


What exactly has humanity done to deserve such


You people should stop making your respective religions look ungodly like it's some evil practice


Whatever you believe in....... Just do the right thing


Your salvation is in your hands.

Demmzy15:

Look can you leave me alone? If you can't comprehend, then I can't force you. I have presented proofs from the Quran, hadith and even tafsir but you still want to claim boss when in fact you're a kid.

The Quran commanded us to obey the Prophet and his words are found outside the Quran like the hadeeth, etc

You asked for proof, have you forgotten, and I presented it and you're now saying 'leave me alone'?

Nobody is forcing anyone here. If you don't want to dialogue it's up to you.

Surely if Abraham and Ishmael were performing all these rituals allegedly done by them - including circling round stones, kissing stones and throwing stones (stones! Stones! Stones!) - there should have been other records of their doing them apart from in Islam that came several hundred years after them. The plain truth is that their names (including those of other 'Prophet's' - Moses, Noah, etc) were introduced to give credibility to Islam.

plainbibletruth:

You asked for proof, have you forgotten, and I presented it and you're now saying 'leave me alone'?

Nobody is forcing anyone here. If you don't want to dialogue it's up to you.

Surely if Abraham and Ishmael were performing all these rituals allegedly done by them - including circling round stones, kissing stones and throwing stones (stones! Stones! Stones!) - there should have been other records of their doing them apart from in Islam that came several hundred years after them. The plain truth is that their names (including those of other 'Prophet's' - Moses, Noah, etc) were introduced to give credibility to Islam.

OK can you now leave me, since you have nothing reasonable to say?

Demmzy15:

If I didn't answer your questions, then go back and see my replies to others on this thread. You aren't making any sense, you want me to keep repeating myself. When I refute, you come again and ask the same question in another form. Guy leave me alone.

You are a liar!

Copy and paste your so-call rebutal here and let people see. I know you cannot paste it because there is none.

How would you have refuted pagans highjacking islamic worship instituted by Ishmael if paganism and islam are not on the same track?

How would you have refuted pagans and Muhammad being together to worship islamic allah if they were not worshiping the same deity?

The islamic allah you call God is not but satan in disguise. I pity you.

truthman2012:


You are a liar!

Copy and paste your so-call rebutal here and let people see. I know you cannot paste it because there is none.

How would you have refuted pagans highjacking islamic worship instituted by Ishmael if paganism and islam are not on the same track?

How would you have refuted pagans and Muhammad being together to worship islamic allah if they were not worshiping the same deity?

The islamic allah you call God is not but satan in disguise. I pity you.

K

Rilwayne001:


This was the reply brother lanrex lan gave him:




Can we still after the underlined say this practise was copied from the pagans? NO. This reply has been brought to his face times without number. But due to the fact that they are not ready for the truth but silly back and forte arguement, he turned blind eye on it.

The quote stated that Hagar (not Abraham) was the first to observe the practise but remember that Hagar was not an Arab, she was an Egyptian hence she might have been up to a practise peculiar to Egyptians.

Demmzy15:

K

You now lack the idea of what further lies to tell again. If you can't paste what you have said to answer my questions, don't you know them off hand?

Those simple questions you and all other muslims are incapable of providing answers to have nullified every defence on this thread.

The truth of the matter is that muslims copied the worship of the meccan pagans as it is impossible for pagans to copy the worship of the true God. It is like saying pagans highjack the worship system of the Jews or Christians. Impossible.

truthman2012:


[s]You now lack the idea of what further lies to tell again. If you can't paste what you have said to answer my questions, don't you know them off hand?

Those simple questions you and all other muslims are incapable of providing answers to have nullified every defence on this thread.

The truth of the matter is that muslims copied the worship of the meccan pagans as it is impossible for pagans to copy the worship of the true God. It is like saying pagans highjack the worship system of the Jews or Christians. Impossible.[/s]

K

---

Demmzy15:
K

---

Don't remain deceived.

truthman2012:


Don't remain deceived.

K grandpa

dolphinheart:


No one to reply me with answers to my questions?

They don't answer any question that will expose the falsehood of islam. So many questions, including mine remain unswered.

Scholar8200:
The quote stated that Hagar (not Abraham) was the first to observe the practise but remember that Hagar was not an Arab, she was an Egyptian hence she might have been up to a practise peculiar to Egyptians.

Arab race started with the children of Ishmael with Hagar being his mother. There is nothing Egyptian about running between two mountains looking for water, Ishmael was thirsty and she was looking for water. This what every mother would do rather than "Egyptians"

dolphinheart:
What does islam mean when it says something is a "symbol of allah" ?
When did it become a symbol?was it a symbol when the before hagar ran accross it seven times?
Why is it a symbol?

On ishmeals age issue
According to islam and their religious books , What was ishmaels age or age range as at the time he left with his mother?

Why did hagar leave with her son?

Who was the son abraham wanted to sacrifice, Isaac or Ishmael. ?
If its Ishmael, was he still a baby at that time?

On the cresent moon issue.
Does islam condemn the use of that symbol to represent islam? Is the use of that symbol Islamic?

I want or prefer a sincere , non abusive person to answer my questions.

Lastly , pls I need further explanation on how pagans misplaced/missed/changed/forgot the God they where serving with that ritual but did not actually misplace/miss/change/forget the process of that ritual.

Its interesting to see that no muslim wants/can/is willing to answer my questions.!!!.

Demmzy15:

Arab race started with the children of Ishmael with Hagar being his mother. There is nothing Egyptian about running between two mountains looking for water, Ishmael was thirsty and she was looking for water. This what every mother would do rather than "Egyptians"

This implies that she was neither carrying out any ritual of worship nor instituting one; neither was she acting in obedience to any Divine or angelic command nor was she conscious of the mountains having any special significance. Is that correct?

dolphinheart:


Its interesting to see that no muslim wants/can/is willing to answer my questions.!!!.

Because if they give you all the proof and answers in this world you never going to be satisfied. All you want is find someone who has time for arguments, you don't want answers you only to argue. We have got no time for such. The brothers have answered in the best way.

Scholar8200:
This implies that she was neither carrying out any ritual of worship nor instituting one; neither was she acting in obedience to any Divine or angelic command nor was she conscious of the mountains having any special significance. Is that correct?

Yes, then this perseverance and sacrifice by Hagar became a ritual for pilgrims so as to look back upon this. It's just like when some Christians practiced self flagellation just to experience the sample of pains Jesus experienced when he was about to be crucified.

We have been told about people like you. Not really surprised you won't be the first or last.

In some of the verses of surah Anam it says the following.

And never an Ayah (sign) comes to them from the Ayat (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of their Lord, but that they have been turning away from it.

Indeed, they rejected the truth (the Quran and Muhammad SAW) when it came to them, but there will come to them the news of that (the torment) which they used to mock at.

Have they not seen how many a generation before them We have destroyed whom We had established on the earth such as We have not established you? And We poured out on them rain from the sky in abundance, and made the rivers flow under them. Yet We destroyed them for their sins, and created after them other generations.

And even if We had sent down unto you (O Muhammad SAW) a Message written on paper so that they could touch it with their hands, the disbelievers would have said this is nothing but obvious magic

And indeed (many) Messengers were mocked before you, but their scoffers were surrounded by the very thing that they used to mock at.

Say (O Muhammad SAW): "Travel in the land and see what was the end of those who rejected truth."

bashbabe2:

Because if they give you all the proof and answers in this world you never going to be satisfied. All you want is find someone who has time for arguments, you don't want answers you only to argue. We have got no time for such. The brothers have answered in the best way.

Really?!! Like I told someone who made a similar remark, I wonder how you got to know that I'm not going to be satisfied.
These questions I asked is not only for me, there are others, including muslims who would like to know the answers to these questions.

I do not like to argue, I'm just on these thread to learn. For example , there was a thread I learnt about how muslims view mphameds "medical cure" statements. Expecially the one of the "fly wings" and "camel piss". I did not argue with them, just wanted to know there view.
So pls ill appreciate if someone can answer my questions.

dolphinheart:


Really?!! Like I told someone who made a similar remark, I wonder how you got to know that I'm not going to be satisfied.
These questions I asked is not only for me, there are others, including muslims who would like to know the answers to these questions.

I do not like to argue, I'm just on these thread to learn. For example , there was a thread I learnt about how muslims view mphameds "medical cure" statements. Expecially the one of the "fly wings" and "camel piss". I did not argue with them, just wanted to know there view.
So pls ill appreciate if someone can answer my questions.

It's not everything they have answers to. They are not scholars who spend years studying the quran and hadiths. So if they can't answer pls understand why

Demmzy15:

Yes, then this perseverance and sacrifice by Hagar became a ritual for pilgrims so as to look back upon this. It's just like when some Christians practiced self flagellation just to experience the sample of pains Jesus experienced when he was about to be crucified.

Okay. But then, you will agree with me that most ordinances eg Circumcision (Abraham) Passover (Israelites and Moses) etc commenced by an explicit Divine command. Why is this different?


Digression
self flagellation, Israel pilgrimage, birth and death of Christ celebrations are not acclaimed as acts/rituals of worship but embellishments by man which Bible christians (eg the early church) did not observe. Observance of these practices does not increase piousness or spirituality neither does non-observance.

Demmzy15:

Yes, then this perseverance and sacrifice by Hagar became a ritual for pilgrims so as to look back upon this. It's just like when some Christians practiced self flagellation just to experience the sample of pains Jesus experienced when he was about to be crucified.

Okay. But then, you will agree with me that most ordinances eg Circumcision (Abraham), Passover (Israelites and Moses) etc commenced by an explicit Divine command. Why is this different?


Digression
self flagellation, Israel pilgrimage, birth and death of Christ celebrations are not acclaimed as acts/rituals of worship but embellishments by man which Bible christians (eg the early church) did not observe. Observance of these practices does not increase piousness or spirituality neither does non-observance.