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If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? - Islam for Muslims (2) - Nairaland

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Muslim Clerics Fight During Quranic Graduation In Ogun State / Islam Doesn't Teach Terrorism, Clarification Of The Quoted Qur'an Verses / If The Qur'an Is True, Then Islam Is False (2) (3) (4)

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Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by truthman2012(m): 7:58pm On Jul 25, 2015
lexiconkabir:
dont u undestand? i said the verse you brought out that from was wrongly interpreted to put d ignorant muslims into state of confusion nd also 2 give people lyk u the chance to speak ill about islam, i hope he understands this tym

How does this answer the simplified questions?

What is wrongly interpreted? How do you interpret these in your own version?

1. [Sahih Muslim 1:33]: The
Messenger of Allah said: "I have
been commanded to FIGHT against
people till they testify that there
is no god but Allah, that
Muhammad is the messenger of
Allah, and they establish prayer
and pay zakat."

2. [Qur'an (9:29] - " FIGHT those who
believe not in Allah nor the Last
Day, nor hold that forbidden
which hath been forbidden by
Allah and His Messenger, nor
acknowledge the religion of
Truth, (even if they are) of the
People of the Book, until they pay
the Jizya with willing submission,
and feel themselves subdued.

All the above after allah had said:

Quran 10:99 Pickthal] And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) COMPEL men until they are believers?

No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.
[Qur'an 10:100]
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 8:03pm On Jul 25, 2015
truthman2012:


The bible does not permit Christians to swear. You accussed me of copying the thread from somewhere, it is a surprise that you could not give the link where you read it before.

Your question doesn't have any relevance to the OP.
ok do not, be sincere 4 d sake of what u worship did u found this verses yourself? i am not sayin i read this somewhere else, but it looks like a copied and pasted something. my question has no relevance, really?? are you saying to testify about the God u worship is not relevant? smh.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by malvisguy212: 8:04pm On Jul 25, 2015
lexiconkabir:
and what do u call him?
what is your point?
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 8:05pm On Jul 25, 2015
lexiconkabir:
ok do not swear, be sincere 4 d sake of what u worship did u found this verses yourself? i am not sayin i read this somewhere else, but it looks like a copied and pasted something. my question has no relevance, really?? are you saying to testify about the God u worship is not relevant? smh.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by malvisguy212: 8:08pm On Jul 25, 2015
lexiconkabir:
did u read the continuation of my thread of where i talked about the hadiths u just used?? if no then go nd check again, mind u research again and know that david wood invented the lie "muslim and paganism"
you are not making sense, if the so called David wood invented a lies, you should be able to clear it , right? The question is , how is pagan ritual becomes a 'SYMBOL OF ALLAH?' The hadith clearly say the pagan has been doing it before islam came.

1 Like

Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 8:12pm On Jul 25, 2015
malvisguy212:
what is your point?
my point is i want to know who u refer to as God.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 8:21pm On Jul 25, 2015
malvisguy212:
you are not making sense, if the so called David wood invented a lies, you should be able to clear it , right? The question is , how is pagan ritual becomes a 'SYMBOL OF ALLAH?' The hadith clearly say the pagan has been doing it before islam came.
i have said it before and i will say it here, since you are blind to see that i have answered the question. there is no historical fact that the pagans did tawaf, that verse was wrongly edited and as 4 d hadith, firstly hadith is the sayings and actions of muhammad(s.a.w), there are 4 categories of hadiths. authentic, good, weak and fabricated, the hadith given that talked about islam getting roots from pagans is a fabricated hadith, because there is no valid narrator and it is not an historical fact, i hope this makes sense to u.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by truthman2012(m): 9:14pm On Jul 25, 2015
lexiconkabir:
i have said it before and i will say it here, since you are blind to see that i have answered the question. there is no historical fact that the pagans did tawaf, that verse was wrongly edited and as 4 d hadith, firstly hadith is the sayings and actions of muhammad(s.a.w), there are 4 categories of hadiths. authentic, good, weak and fabricated, the hadith given that talked about islam getting roots from pagans is a fabricated hadith, because there is no valid narrator and it is not an historical fact, i hope this makes sense to u.

Muslims term as fabricated or weak any hadith that exposes the true nature of islam. This is self deception. If it is not to be used, why is it on record?

Are you saying that particular hadith is fabricated or weak? Prove.

If hadith is fabricated or weak according to you, is the quran also fabricated or weak? Did I hear you say the quran is edited? Edited by who and for what?

Now, look at the other translations of the quran:

Shakir 10:99] And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?

[Pickthal 10:99] And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?

[Yusufali 10:99] If it had been thy Lord's will, they would all have believed,- all who are on earth! wilt thou then COMPEL mankind, AGAINST THEIR WILL to believe?

[Shakir 10:99] And if your Lord had pleased, surely all those who are in the earth would have believed, all of them; will you then force men till they become believers?

Shakir 10:100] And it is not for a soul to believe except by Allah's permission; and He casts uncleanness on those who will not understand.

[Pickthal 10:100] It is not for any soul to believe save by the permission of Allah. He hath set uncleanness upon those who have no sense.

[Yusufali 10:100] No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah, and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.

So to you, all of the above translators edited the quran and the whole islamic world stands looking at allah's words being CORRUPTED.

Now, give me another translation that says something different and that can be verified.

Your reasoning and the defence you put up are that of a small boy. Please leave the stage.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by true2god: 10:33pm On Jul 25, 2015
@ lexiconkabir, your attempt defending islam here is commendable (from the islamic angle) but your responses do not clear the air here. allahh said no soul can believe except by the will of allahh and that allahh will place doubt on those who will not understand. allahh's statement here is clears enough here.

allahh will only be contradicting himself and making himself unstable by asking mohammed to fight those who do not believe in islam (quran 9:29) after he had made it clear that he will place doubt on the mind of the unbelievers. Why did allahh ask mohammed to fight pple that he deliberately place doubt in their minds? Dont you see any sign of contradiction by allahh in this regard?
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 8:42am On Jul 26, 2015
@true2god and @truthman2012 , this is the correct translation and i will explain the verse, Qur'an 10:100, "it is not for any person to believe, except by the leave of Allah, and He will put the wrath on those who are heedless" by now u must have seen that the translation the op gave is slightly different and where is the difference? the last statement where the op said "and he will put doubt on those that do not understand" instead of "and he will put the wrath on those who are heedless" let me explain the verse: here Allah is telling muhammad(s.a.w) that his part is to preach the oneness of Allah but Allah is the only one that can make the people believe if they listen(heed) to him, but the case whereby they dont even want to listen(heedless), then Allah(s.w.t) will put wrath on them. that is what the verse is saying, not that Allah will put doubt on their hearts like the op wrongly translated. i hope i am understood if not please tell me.

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Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 8:53am On Jul 26, 2015
@truthman2012 , i never said all hadiths are fabricated(my fault i wasnt composed yesterday), instead i said we have different classes of hadith, among which we have the authentic and fabricated, the hadith you gave on islam getting its root from pagans is a fabricated hadith(i can prove that if u want, tho ave done that before) and the hadith given on this thread, where the prophet of Allah is being command to fight and preach against the disbelievers is authentic. now when i said fight i know your mind will go to swords, gun and all that, but no. To get a clearer picture of what fight means there is; if i say fight yourself against lies, does that mean you should kill yourself when you lie? No, but it means STRIVE hard to make sure ur lies are being reduced or stop it totally. I hope i made myself understood this time, if not please tell me.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by truthman2012(m): 9:41am On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
@truthman2012 , i never said all hadiths are fabricated(my fault i wasnt composed yesterday), instead i said we have different classes of hadith, among which we have the authentic and fabricated, the hadith you gave on islam getting its root from pagans is a fabricated hadith(i can prove that if u want, tho ave done that before) and the hadith given on this thread, where the prophet of Allah is being command to fight and preach against the disbelievers is authentic. now when i said fight i know your mind will go to swords, gun and all that, but no. To get a clearer picture of what fight means there is; if i say fight yourself against lies, does that mean you should kill yourself when you lie? No, but it means STRIVE hard to make sure ur lies are being reduced or stop it totally. I hope i made myself understood this time, if not please tell me.

I don't think you are composed today as well because this thread is not talking about islam as paganism. This is already settled and readers would have taken their stand.

FIGHT means WAR. If the US is said to be fighting in Iraq, what are they saying?

Look at this quranic verses again:

[Quran 8:12] When your Lord revealed to the angels: I am with you, therefore make firm those who believe. I will cast TERROR into the hearts of those who disbelieve. Therefore STRIKE OFF their heads and STRIKE OFF every fingertip of them.

That is start of islamic terrorism.

Quran 9:5] Then, when the sacred months have passed, SLAY the idolaters wherever ye find them, and take them (captive), and besiege them, and prepare for them each ambush. But if they repent and establish worship and pay the poor-due, then leave their way free. Lo! Allah is Forgiving, Merciful.

Allah commanded the muslims to kill people after he had said it was not his WILL to make the whole earth believe in him and that Muhammad should not COMPEL anybody. Why is your allah so inconsistent, changing his words as soon as revealed?

You know what? Regular posters who try to defend islam could not come forth to refute this OP but you, who is just saying anything. You even said the quran is edited.

Please stop posting and let Rilwayne001, who seems to be the best liar among muslims here come forward. Thank you.

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Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 10:10am On Jul 26, 2015
@truthman2012 i talked about paganism because u seem to be still asking questions about it, and why are you getting tensed up?? because i'm giving answers to all your blind questions and lies? common, thats immaturity, i would answer more questions and refuse a lie when i see one. but to settle this, can we debate on a mutually agreed topic? if you say no or ignore then it will show what your aim is(u knw it).
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 10:53am On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
@truthman2012 , i never said all hadiths are fabricated(my fault i wasnt composed yesterday), instead i said we have different classes of hadith, among which we have the authentic and fabricated, the hadith you gave on islam getting its root from pagans is a fabricated hadith(i can prove that if u want, tho ave done that before) and the hadith given on this thread, where the prophet of Allah is being command to fight and preach against the disbelievers is authentic. now when i said fight i know your mind will go to swords, gun and all that, but no. To get a clearer picture of what fight means there is; if i say fight yourself against lies, does that mean you should kill yourself when you lie? No, but it means STRIVE hard to make sure ur lies are being reduced or stop it totally. I hope i made myself understood this time, if not please tell me.

Stop talking rubbish and al taqquiya fight in islamic context means war and this can be deduced from the horrible life of mohamed who instigated over a hundred offensive military campaigns in his pathetic life time to impose his evil ideology(islam) on others. His true followers(boko haram, isis) till this date are still following his evil footsteps
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 10:57am On Jul 26, 2015
Jagoon:


Stop talking rubbish and al taqquiya fight in islamic context means war and this can be deduced from the horrible life of mohamed who instigated over a hundred offensive military campaigns in his pathetic life time to impose his evil ideology(islam) on others. His true followers(boko haram, isis) till this date are still following his evil footsteps
u r not worthy of my answers. so if u like quote me again, u will be ignored
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by true2god: 11:06am On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
@true2god and @truthman2012 , this is the correct translation and i will explain the verse, Qur'an 10:100, "it is not for any person to believe, except by the leave of Allah, and He will put the wrath on those who are heedless" by now u must have seen that the translation the op gave is slightly different and where is the difference? the last statement where the op said "and he will put doubt on those that do not understand" instead of "and he will put the wrath on those who are heedless" let me explain the verse: here Allah is telling muhammad(s.a.w) that his part is to preach the oneness of Allah but Allah is the only one that can make the people believe if they listen(heed) to him, but the case whereby they dont even want to listen(heedless), then Allah(s.w.t) will put wrath on them. that is what the verse is saying, not that Allah will put doubt on their hearts like the op wrongly translated. i hope i am understood if not please tell me.
Do you mean there are quran with a wrong translations? Then if that is the case what happened to allahh's promise to protect the quran from corruption and can you please recommend a quran translation that you feel is reliable enough for the sake of future arguments?

1 Like

Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 11:19am On Jul 26, 2015
true2god:
Do you mean there are quran with a wrong translations? Then if that is the case what happened to allahh's promise to protect the quran from corruption and can you please recommend a quran translation that you feel is reliable enough for the sake of future arguments?
the quran is still in its original form, cuz the language which was used to reveal it is the language muslims use in reading it, unlike the bible that is read in different languages, it takes deep arabic knowledge to translate these verses correctly, but christians in order to cause havoc translate this verses wrongly. so the best is to understand the language so you would be able to know the translation correctly. why dont we have a debate on a mutually agreed topic to settle this
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by true2god: 11:27am On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
@truthman2012 , i never said all hadiths are fabricated(my fault i wasnt composed yesterday), instead i said we have different classes of hadith, among which we have the authentic and fabricated, the hadith you gave on islam getting its root from pagans is a fabricated hadith(i can prove that if u want, tho ave done that before) and the hadith given on this thread, where the prophet of Allah is being command to fight and preach against the disbelievers is authentic. now when i said fight i know your mind will go to swords, gun and all that, but no. To get a clearer picture of what fight means there is; if i say fight yourself against lies, does that mean you should kill yourself when you lie? No, but it means STRIVE hard to make sure ur lies are being reduced or stop it totally. I hope i made myself understood this time, if not please tell me.
@ lexiconkabir, in as much as i will accept some of your points, I wont accept obvious lies you attempt to peddle here. The quran command to fight unbelievers in chapter 9:5 & 30 means FIGHT and KILL in the literal sense. Mohammed, as a perfect man in islam, led by example by participating in so many wars against non-muslims.

In as much as you want to propagate islam in your own little way, you dont need do that by telling obvios lies. The foundation of islam is fraugt with wars and conflict both within islam and outside the islamic fold.

Immediately after the death of mohammed a civil war started between rival factions within the muslim 'ummah', one on the side of fatimah and the other on the side of aisha. The fatimah faction led to the establishement of the shia factions of islam after mohammed's grandchildren were killed in the battle of karballa by the aisha led sunni faction.

That conflict, till date, led to the polarization of islam into two major ideological camps, one led by the saudis (the sunnis) and the other led by iran (the shia).

So your attempt to re-define the meanings of FIGHT, WAR, CUT-OFF and KILL as defined by quran and as practiced by mohammed and his sahabas, and as being done by early muslims, is only deceitful. You can only fool the ignorants ones by attempting to sugar-coat the violent words\advise and being directed by mohammed.

Dont give a meaning to words based on your personal, fictitious and misleading interpretations, we are all men of common-sense.

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Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by true2god: 11:30am On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
the quran is still in its original form, cuz the language which was used to reveal it is the language muslims use in reading it, unlike the bible that is read in different languages, it takes deep arabic knowledge to translate these verses correctly, but christians in order to cause havoc translate this verses wrongly. so the best is to understand the language so you would be able to know the translation correctly. why dont we have a debate on a mutually agreed topic to settle this
Do you mean I cannot understand the quran\islam correctly without understanding arabic, especially in this modern world? That is an amazing and an equally deceptive response from you.

1 Like

Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 11:39am On Jul 26, 2015
true2god:
Do you mean I cannot understand the quran\islam correctly without understanding arabic, especially in this modern world? That is an amazing and an equally deceptive response from you.
it is even in the bible at zephaniah 3:9(king james version) "for then i will turn to the people a PURE LANGUAGE, so they may all call upon the name of the lord, to serve him in one consent" we muslims serve our LORD in one language arabic but the reverse is the case for christians
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 11:55am On Jul 26, 2015
@truthman2012 and @true2god, maybe you click on this link to get the proper answer why these verses about fights were revealed, www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm this should do, if you really wanna understand.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by true2god: 12:13pm On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
it is even in the bible at zephaniah 3:9(king james version) "for then i will turn to the people a PURE LANGUAGE, so they may all call upon the name of the lord, to serve him in one consent" we muslims serve our LORD in one language arabic but the reverse is the case for christians
Lying is convenient in islam. Read zephaniah 3:1-20 completely, it is a prophetic proclamation to the children of israel about God's deliverance from their oppressors, the judgment to their oppressors and God's prophesy on the Jew's unity in the serving of Yahweh (not allahh). The verse you quoted did not say that only jewish language is acceptable to God, as muslims are falsely defending the arab cultural supremacist that arabic is the only acceptable to God.

God understands all languages and all languages are pure in the presence of God (as long as it is used for the glory of God). A pure language means a clean language edifying to both God and man while a foul, or impure language can be said to be a language of filth and lies that does not in a anyway glorify God.

So your attempt to use a bible passage to justify islamic\arabic lies in pure non-sense.

2 Likes

Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by truthman2012(m): 12:17pm On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
@truthman2012 and @true2god, maybe you click on this link to get the proper answer why these verses about fights were revealed, www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm this should do, if you really wanna understand.

Honestly, I can cope with the way you reason. When I have shown you from the quran and you saw ''STRIKE OFF THEIR HEAD, SLAY THEM'', you are still arguing 'FIGHT' doesn't mean KILL. Your quranic interpretation is VERY terrible.

2 Likes

Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 12:24pm On Jul 26, 2015
truthman2012:


Honestly, I can cope with the way you reason. When I have shown you from the quran and you saw ''STRIKE OFF THEIR HEAD, SLAY THEM'', you are still arguing 'FIGHT' doesn't mean KILL. Your quranic interpretation is VERY terrible.
did you click on the site? verily you did not, cuz if u did would understand why that verse was revealed.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 12:25pm On Jul 26, 2015
this is the site again, www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 12:26pm On Jul 26, 2015
@truthman2012 this is the site again, www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 12:36pm On Jul 26, 2015
o.m.g, @true2god you dont still understand do you? click on this site www.islam101.com/terror/verse8_12.htm
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 1:05pm On Jul 26, 2015
truthman2012:


Honestly, I can cope with the way you reason. When I have shown you from the quran and you saw ''STRIKE OFF THEIR HEAD, SLAY THEM'', you are still arguing 'FIGHT' doesn't mean KILL. Your quranic interpretation is VERY terrible.

Don't mind the pathetic al taqquiya expert.

1 Like

Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 1:07pm On Jul 26, 2015
@truthman2012 and @true2god in addition to what is in that site, let me give a practical example: we all know the U.S was in war with vietnam. if at that time of the war, the general incharge says "kill vietnamese, where ever you find them" to boost the morale of d soldiers it makes perfect sense. but if i bring that same statement today and say the general said "kill vietnamese, where ever you find them", the general would be seen as being violent 4 no reason, but if you know the historical background of that statement only then it will make sense, the same thing applies to those verses, when the muslims where oppressed by the makkans and later resulted into fighting them.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 1:07pm On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
u r not worthy of my answers. so if u like quote me again, u will be ignored

I don't need or appreciate the answer a chronic pathological liar of an infidel like you.
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by truthman2012(m): 1:10pm On Jul 26, 2015
"e author=lexiconkabir post=36285508] it is even in the bible at zephaniah 3:9(king james version) "for then i will turn to the people a PURE LANGUAGE, so they may all call upon the name of the lord, to serve him in one consent" we muslims serve our LORD in one language arabic but the reverse is the case for christians[/quote]"

Which language is the PURE LANGUAGE? Arabic? Nonsense! What makes Arabic pure?

What the bible is talking about is purity of words of God's people. People who would not say foul words. People who would not curse, abuse or say vain words.

Look at the interpretation of that verse:

New American Standard: Bible
"For then I will give to the peoples, PURIFIED LIPS,that all of them may
call on the name of the LORD, To
serve Him shoulder to shoulder.

New Living Translation
"Then I will purify the SPEECH OF ALL PEOPLE, so that everyone can
worship the LORD together.

Abraham and his family were living in Israel and their language was not Arabic. Therefore, Arabic was not the language of Ishmael. He learnt it from the pagans who resided with them in Mecca, according to islamic tradition. Is that your PURE LANGUAGE?

ISHMAEL LEARNT ARABIC:

.........''The
child (i.e. Ishmael) grew up
and LEARNT ARABIC from them
and (his virtues) caused them
to love and admire him as he
grew up, and when he reached
the age of puberty they made
him marry a woman from
amongst them [Sahih
Bukhari 4.583 ]
Re: If These Quranic Verses Are True, Then What Is The Problem? by Nobody: 1:12pm On Jul 26, 2015
lexiconkabir:
it is even in the bible at zephaniah 3:9(king james version) "for then i will turn to the people a PURE LANGUAGE, so they may all call upon the name of the lord, to serve him in one consent" we muslims serve our LORD in one language arabic but the reverse is the case for christians

The head of ISIS is and arab man(from mohamed's tribe) and he has a PhD in islamic studies. He clearly understands islam and arabic better an al taqquiya expert like you and he is clearly following mohamed's evil foot steps

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