Demmzy15:

Salamu Aleikum sis/bro, I'm not truthman2012?!

marxydans:
sorry mistake

No problem

plainbibletruth:


Remember the thread started by pointing out that whereas Allah said no one can believe except he Allah wills it, he then, on the other hand, instructs Mohammed to fight people until they accept Allah.

I believe this was the crux of the matter.

But you spent most of your initial posts in digression from this core issue.

After several promptings you came to an interpretation that the fight was only for "when the muslims where oppressed by the makkans". BUT the verse NEVER said 'fight those who oppress you'. So how you came to conveniently 'interpret' "Fight those who do not believe in Allah" to mean ''fight those who oppress you' is, to say the least, amazing!

Now you blame others that they "peddle in some words into the translations that are not into in the original arabic text to prove your lies"
But are you not adding words here yourself?

[Btw, if you refer me to "a place in the bible where muhammad was being referred to as said in the Quran" you may still end up adding your words to what the Bible is actually saying, so don't bother. The Bible says NOTHING about the Quran or Mohammed. On the other hand the Quran says much about, and confirms, the Bible as the Word of God. ]

IF your 'interpretation' is the right one, why didn't the book that claims to make things 'clear and simple' not just simply say so - that is assuming that this portion of the Quran was actually 'revealed' to Mohammed AFTER and not before he started facing opposition.

So, do you see that in order for you to show that your 'translation' is the right one you need to prove that this portion of the Quran was given after Mohammed was fought by the Meccans and Meccans alone and also that it does not include any other people? And by so doing it must be that you had 'special revelation' from Allah to "fill-in-the-blanks" that were not there in the Quran?

How "Fight those who do not believe in Allah" comes to mean "fight Meccans who oppress (or fight) you" is simply AMAZING!

bashbabe2:


When I'm not foolish like you. Find someone who has time to go back and forth with you. I'm only hear to SMH at your ignorance.will keep praying for you

true2god:
Lying is permitted in islam.

lexiconkabir:
i think it is in christianity that paul permitted lie!

true2god:
Your prophet was a liar and supported lying. See hadiths below.

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Muslim Book 032, Number 6303: Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good.

true2god:
Your prophet was a liar and supported lying. See hadiths below.

Bukhari Volume 3, Book 49, Number 857: Narrated Um Kulthum bint Uqba: That she heard Allah’s Apostle saying, “He who makes peace between the people by INVENTING good information or saying good things, is not a liar.”

Muslim Book 032, Number 6303: Humaid b. ‘Abd al-Rahman b. ‘Auf reported that his mother Umm Kulthum daughter of ‘Uqba b. Abu Mu’ait, and she was one amongst the first emigrants who pledged allegiance to Allah’s Apostle (may peace be upon him), as saying that she heard Allah’s Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: A liar is not one who tries to bring reconciliation amongst people and speaks good (in order to avert dispute), or he conveys good.

true2god:
Islamic scholar lexiconkabir, do you believe in the hadith I just quoted or do you classify it among the 'weak' or\and 'fabricated' hadith that are meant to damage the image of your honourable pedophille prophet? Is lying justified as a tool for making 'peace' as being taught by your prophet 'more-harm-mad' (shitt be upon his head)?

marxydans:

Mumu.how many time u a change bibble?have u ever seen where the holy Quran been changed? If u don't understand anything in the Quran contact me to give u clear details not to start giving verdict on what u don't know

lexiconkabir:
were you not taught how to comprehend to information using comprehension passages in your ss classes? how does those hadiths justify that lying is a good act? moreover it was paul in the bible that said if he has to lie to bring people into christianity, he will do it. and i believe that is why you and your christian friends are so comfortable with lying.

true2god:
So your honourable prophet and paul are in the same class? That is an insult to paul who never slept with a 9-yr old girl nor declare war on infidels who disagree with him (quran 9:29).

truthman2012:
No soul can believe, except by the will of Allah and He will place doubt (or obscurity) on those who will not understand.
[Qur'an 10:100].

The above quranic verse makes one believe allah is responsible for mankind to believe or not believe in him. In fact he is the one who places DOUBT in some people.

Again, the verse below suggests that allah does not WILL all people should believe in him and so there is no need for Muhammad to COMPEL anybody:

[Quran 10:99 Pickthal] And if thy Lord willed, all who are in the earth would have believed together. Wouldst thou (Muhammad) compel men until they are believers?

Then, if the verses are true, why is he still FORCING people to accept islam as in:

Sahih Muslim (1:33) The
Messenger of Allah said: "I have
been commanded to FIGHT against
people till they testify that there
is no god but Allah, that
Muhammad is the messenger of
Allah, and they establish prayer
and pay zakat."

Why fight the people to accept islam since nobody can believe except by the WILL of allah and he is responsible for placing doubt in them?

Qur'an (8:39) - “And FIGHT them
until there is no more Fitnahm
(disbelief and polytheism: i.e.
worshipping others besides Allah)
and the religion (worship) will all
be for Allah Alone [in the whole
of the world ]. But if they cease
(worshipping others besides
Allah), then certainly, Allah is
All-Seer of what they do.

Qur'an (9:29) - " FIGHT those who
believe not in Allah nor the Last
Day, nor hold that forbidden
which hath been forbidden by
Allah and His Messenger, nor
acknowledge the religion of
Truth, (even if they are) of the
People of the Book, until they pay
the Jizya with willing submission,
and feel themselves subdued."