.

tpia:


just out of curiosity, which tribe was Dimka?

Dimka is the same tribe as Gowon(I think), Plateau area.

@ Interview

Sometimes the action of certain individuals pants a clear picture of the prevailing socio-politico-economic arrangement in a given society. It amazes me when I hear few misguided cross-section of southern Nigerians lament on how the northern Nigerian elites have turned Nigerian into a hopeless entity.

The northern Nigerians would not have accomplished the complete takeover of Nigeria without the help of southern Nigerians such as David Ejoor. Among those who were on the paid list of northern Nigerian oligarchy bent on usurping and ruining the colonial contraption were David Ejoor, S L Akintola, Adaka Boro, Adm. A Wey, Brig. S. Ademulugun, Edwin Clarke and Chief Fani-Kayode to mention but a few.

I am not surprised the David Ejoor would go to any length to defend the war his masters instigated against Biafra. It was not long ago that Judas in Ejoor lamented that northern Nigerians have usurped both economic and political leadership of the jungle called Nigeria. And yet, the prejudice he has fermented for Ndigbo still pushes the deluded rat to spew unfounded indictments against the Ndigbo. Sorry pal, you will die a second fiddle.


@ Sleek_p

It is very embarrassing to read your post on this discourse judging what your signature seemed to signify. The questions you raised and the deductions you gave to issues being discussed suggested that either you are as dumb as drunken rat or you are irredeemably ignorance of military parlance and dastardly prejudicial towards Ndigbo.

Please do pose a question of why have successful and unsuccessful coups in Nigeria following the July 29, 1966 have been led or dominated by northern Nigerian military officers. In addition, why have these coups failed to engender ethnic reprisals that met coup of January 15, 1966. By the time you have finished rummaging with the subject matter, you would realize that a coup is military issue and what happened after January 15, 1966 was a carefully planned political manifesto that had sprouted into northern Nigerians dominance of the affairs in today’s cesspit called Nigeria.

@Dede1,
I tend to always agree with you.

tpia:




just out of curiosity, which tribe was Dimka?

Dimka is Langtang

onye_ngbu:

Let us assume that there is even no non igbo among the coup plotters.
So you guys are now saying that retaliatory act of killing thousands of igbo civillians because of tribalistic act of few should be blamed on the coup plotters and not the perpetrators of the pogrom.

Don't be silly. Where did i make that assertion? Have i ever tried to shift blame from the killers?

onye_ngbu:

We are talking about thousands of igbo officers and civillians killed by fellow hausa soldiers and civillians. It is not 'uninformed rabble' as you guys are claiming this time. It was an organized mass killing.

You don't need the killers to be organized, informed people. All you need is for the instigators, the controllers to be informed. As seen in many cases of religious violence in Nigeria these days, most of the killing is done by illiterate almajiris whipped into a frenzy by an Iman or a minor Sultan.

texazzpete:

Don't be silly. Where did i make that assertion? Have i ever tried to shift blame from the killers?

You don't need the killers to be organized, informed people. All you need is for the instigators, the controllers to be informed. As seen in many cases of religious violence in Nigeria these days, most of the killing is done by illiterate almajiris whipped into a frenzy by an Iman or a minor Sultan.

You seem to be making too many assertions on this topic to remember what you mean again.

shifting blame from the coup plotters or laying it on them did not and should not excuse the pogrom and later the war.

Why is it hard for you and Ejoor and all other non igbos to admit that the war was caused by the unabated pogrom and not the coup.

if you believe its just the 1st coup, hausa people got their own counter coup, why werent you or Ejoor saying anything about the counter coup which is also tribalistic and their revenge which should have made things even.

But your hausa people cant stop even after their counter coup -- they needed to take over Nigeria by eliminating the igbo tribe which is the only one that can stop them.

texazzpete:

You don't need the killers to be organized, informed people. All you need is for the instigators, the controllers to be informed. As seen in many cases of religious violence in Nigeria these days, most of the killing is done by illiterate almajiris whipped into a frenzy by an Iman or a minor Sultan.

At least we agree that the mobs that massacred Igbos in the 1960s were strategically organized. Remember they killed harmless women, children, old people simply because they were Igbos in many locations in the north; from Kaduna to Kano, from Jos to Makurdi crossing the bridge over the Benue river. The fact that the instigators are freely walking around today is the reason why mass ethnic/religious killings has come to stay in Nigeria.

naijaking1:

At least we agree that the mobs that massacred Igbos in the 1960s were strategically organized. Remember they killed harmless women, children, old people simply because they were Igbos in many locations in the north; from Kaduna to Kano, from Jos to Makurdi crossing the bridge over the Benue river. The fact that the instigators are freely walking around today is the reason why mass ethnic/religious killings has come to stay in Nigeria.

In total agreement!

The perpetrators of such evil believe that they can continue doing what they've been doing since the 1960s, and so far it seems they've been right, unfortunately.

onye_ngbu:

You seem to be making too many assertions on this topic to remember what you mean again.

shifting blame from the coup plotters or laying it on them did not and should not excuse the pogrom and later the war.

Why is it hard for you and Ejoor and all other non igbos to admit that the war was caused by the unabated pogrom and not the coup.

if you believe its just the 1st coup, hausa people got their own counter coup, why werent you or Ejoor saying anything about the counter coup which is also tribalistic and their revenge which should have made things even.

But your hausa people cant stop even after their counter coup -- they needed to take over Nigeria by eliminating the igbo tribe which is the only one that can stop them.

There was peace in Nigeria, until the coup plotters struck and destroyed the idyll. Their actions that night turned an uneasy distrust of the Igbos in Northern Nigeria into a deep seated paranoia and hatred, which spilled over into the later bloodletting.
I have never tried to take away the blame from the frenzied mobs in the North. But the coup plotters MUST share some of the blame. Something turned the perception of the Igbos in the North from people to be vaguely disliked to people to be feared, hated and reviled.

Maybe you need to go read your Nigerian history again because there was no peace.  There was unrest in the western part of Nigeria, the Tivs had their own uprising that was vicously crushed, and I believe the Niger Delta issue was brewing up also.  Also, killings of southerners in the north had already taken place before the Jan coup plotters struck.

There was peace in Nigeria, until the coup plotters struck and destroyed the idyll. Their actions that night turned an uneasy distrust of the Igbos in Northern Nigeria into a deep seated paranoia and hatred, which spilled over into the later bloodletting.
I have never tried to take away the blame from the frenzied mobs in the North. But the coup plotters MUST share some of the blame. Something turned the perception  of the Igbos in the North from people to be vaguely disliked to people to be feared, hated and reviled.

My friend do not come here to display your ignorance.If you are not sure of something do not make a comment.Peace in nigeria before the first coup?Go and read up the history of your country.

yarodin:

Maybe you need to go read your Nigerian history again because there was no peace.  There was unrest in the western part of Nigeria, the Tivs had their own uprising that was vicously crushed, and I believe the Niger Delta issue was brewing up also.  Also, killings of southerners in the north had already taken place before the Jan coup plotters struck.

How can you expect Texazzpete to know anything about the Jos progroms of the 1940's? He is known for misyarning with impunity, despite smelling of sciolism. 

RichyBlacK:

In total agreement!
The perpetrators of such evil believe that they can continue doing what they've been doing since the 1960s, and so far it seems they've been right, unfortunately.

Oga Ricky! How now?

texazzpete:

There was peace in Nigeria, until the coup plotters struck and destroyed the idyll. Their actions that night turned an uneasy distrust of the Igbos in Northern Nigeria into a deep seated paranoia and hatred, which spilled over into the later bloodletting.
I have never tried to take away the blame from the frenzied mobs in the North. But the coup plotters MUST share some of the blame. Something turned the perception of the Igbos in the North from people to be vaguely disliked to people to be feared, hated and reviled.

Which kin peace
From the Tivs to the Midwesterners; there was tension. Is it that you really don't know or because you're just trying so hard to spurn your dangerous tribal yarn?

asha 80:

My friend do not come here to display your ignorance.If you are not sure of something do not make a comment.Peace in nigeria before the first coup?Go and read up the history of your country.

And you're here displaying your perfection, eh?
So the easiest path was to ignore everything else i wrote just to take a dig at me. Oya, statement amended to 'relative peace'.
The main meat of my argument is how i feel that the coup plotters deserve a share of the blame for being the tipping point, for helping turn a latent dislike into overt hostility and paranoia. Present a counter argument or STFU!

Ibime:

How can you expect Texazzpete to know anything about the Jos progroms of the 1940's? He is known for misyarning with impunity, despite smelling of sciolism. 

I've always thought the same of you, mon ami  .
I know NOTHING of the Jos pogroms of 1940s. And i've never claimed otherwise. As far as Nigeria is concerned i've only ever restricted myself to conversing with authority about contemporary topics. Can you show otherwise?

naijaking1:

Oga Ricky! How now?

Nna naijaking, I dey kampe.

texazzpete:

And you're here displaying your perfection, eh?
So the easiest path was to ignore everything else i wrote just to take a dig at me. Oya, statement amended to 'relative peace'.
The main meat of my argument is how i feel that the coup plotters deserve a share of the blame for being the tipping point, for helping turn a latent dislike into overt hostility and paranoia. Present a counter argument or STFU!

I've always thought the same of you, mon ami  .
I know NOTHING of the Jos pogroms of 1940s. And i've never claimed otherwise. As far as Nigeria is concerned i've only ever restricted myself to conversing with authority about contemporary topics. Can you show otherwise?

Interesting. I've heard of this "pre-Biafra dislike for Igbos", can you shed more light on this "latent dislike" for Igbos? Thanks.

naijaking1:

Which kin peace
From the Tivs to the Midwesterners; there was tension. Is it that you really don't know or because you're just trying so hard to spurn your dangerous tribal yarn?

I have had little or no interest in that portion of Nigeria's history, so i'd have to choose the former. There's no shame in not knowing something  .  How's that for honesty?
Funny how i could recreate all the Napoleonic battles in my teens, yet knew nothing much about the Biafran war until i read Forsyth's Biafra novel (which in itself was heavily biased).

I'm probably the least tribalistic person you can find in Nigeria, so please don't even go there.

RichyBlacK:

Interesting. I've heard of this "pre-Biafra dislike for Igbos", can you shed more light on this "latent dislike" for Igbos? Thanks.

Now i'm on thin ice so i'll tread carefully here.
What i've heard tell before (and what i infer) is that there were loads of successful Igbo businessmen in the North. Success typically breeds resentment amongst the less successful. Naturally the fact that they were practically 100% christian didn't help.

Someone made the analogy to the pre WW2 situation in Germany. Jews had been disliked in Europe for ages but not until Hitler came forward with his incendiary speeches and his 'blame-it-all-on-the-jews' agenda did this dislike spill into bloodshed.

@texazzpete

You are just a ram.If you are not sure of something do not comment but ask for clarifications.

texazzpete:

Someone made the analogy to the pre WW2 situation in Germany. Jews had been disliked in Europe for ages but not until Hitler came forward with his incendiary speeches and his 'blame-it-all-on-the-jews' agenda did this dislike spill into bloodshed.

This guy just keeps exposing his faulty knowledge of history. . . . . with impunity!  

Are you telling me Hitler was the first leader to enact a progrom against the Jews? The word 'progrom' was invented with Jews in mind!

Lemme run over to Wikipedia for ya:

Massive violent attacks against Jews date back at least to the Crusades such as the Pogrom of 1096 in France and Germany (the first to be officially recorded), as well as the massacres of Jews at London and York in 1189–1190.

During the Golden age of Jewish culture in Spain, beginning in the ninth century, Islamic Spain was very welcoming towards Jews.[5] The eleventh century, however, saw several Muslim pogroms against Jews; those that occurred in Cordoba in 1011 and in Granada in 1066.[6] In the 1066 Granada massacre, a Muslim mob crucified the Jewish vizier Joseph ibn Naghrela and massacred about 4,000 Jews.[7] In 1033 about 6,000 Jews were killed in Fez, Morocco by Muslim mobs.[8][9] Mobs in Fez murdered thousands of Jews, leaving only 11 alive, in 1465.[10]

In 1348, because of the hysteria surrounding the Black Plague, Jews were massacred in Chillon, Basle, Stuttgart, Ulm, Speyer, Dresden, Strasbourg, and Mainz. A large number of the surviving Jews fled to Poland, which was very welcoming to Jews at the time.[11]

In 1543, Martin Luther wrote On the Jews and Their Lies, a treatise in which he advocated harsh persecution of the Jewish people, up to what are now called pogroms. He argued that their synagogues and schools be set on fire, their prayer books destroyed, rabbis forbidden to preach, homes razed, and property and money confiscated.[12][13]

Jews and Poles were also massacred during the Khmelnytsky Uprising of Ukrainian Cossacks in 1648–1654,[14] as well as in the following century during the Koliyivshchyna.

I had to stop at 1645, without mentioning the Russian progroms et al lest I finish Seun's bandwidth.

Lets be honest with ourselves, violence against Jews is not new. Infact, the allies wouldn't have twitched a muscle to prevent it. It was only because of Germany's annexation of her neighbours that the allies stepped in, not because of the persecution of Jews. WW2 was never about the Jews.

asha 80:

@texazzpete

You are just a ram.If you are not sure of something do not comment but ask for clarifications.

I'm flattered. I thought you reserved the 'ram' designation solely for members of your immediate family?

Ibime:

This guy just keeps exposing his faulty knowledge of history. . . . . with impunity!  

Are you telling me Hitler was the first leader to enact a progrom against the Jews? The word 'progrom' was invented with Jews in mind!

Lemme run over to Wikipedia for ya:




I had to stop at 1645, without mentioning the Russian progroms et al lest I finish Seun's bandwidth.

Lets be honest with ourselves, violence against Jews is not new. Infact, the allies wouldn't have twitched a muscle to prevent it. It was only because of Germany's annexation of her neighbours that the allies stepped in, not because of the persecution of Jews. WW2 was never about the Jews.

In your haste to attack me, did the words 'in Germany' escape you? Please consult your optician as soon as possible.

asha 80:

@texazzpete

You are just a ram.If you are not sure of something do not comment but ask for clarifications.

At least he admits not knowing; can someone clear it for this dude, please.

.

texazzpete:

I have had little or no interest in that portion of Nigeria's history, so i'd have to choose the former. There's no shame in not knowing something  .  How's that for honesty?
Funny how i could recreate all the Napoleonic battles in my teens, yet knew nothing much about the Biafran war until i read Forsyth's Biafra novel (which in itself was heavily biased).

I'm probably the least tribalistic person you can find in Nigeria, so please don't even go there.

You have no interest in that portion of Nigeria's history yet you are going all over the thread blaming coup plotters for being responsible for the war and pogrom.

Again if you say that 'there was peace in the country until the coup plotters came and destroyed the ideal' I will then have to agree in totality with you that you do not know a thing about that portion of history. Why did they strike?
Ejoor (who knew nothing about the coup) has told you guys that it was because igbo people wanted power at all cost.

However, Ademoyegan (hope i wrote it right) has the answer for you! Not Nzeogwu, Gbulie or others you will find it harder to believe any of the igbo version of the reason for that coup.

This is the beauty of written information: Ademoyegan's Why we struck should be read and re-read by everyone. Then, whether you supported Biafra, or opposed her, you can more readily make historically and factually correct contribution, not just to this thread, but to the wider effort of unifying Nigeria.

I'm probably the least tribalistic person you can find in Nigeria, so please don't even go there.

Always the way peeps that want to assume neutrality end their statements.

asha 80:

Always the way peeps that want to assume neutrality end their statements.

Wasnt it you who has the right name for such people -- closet tribalists.

I think thats the best name for them, thats what they all are.

texazzpete:

Now i'm on thin ice so i'll tread carefully here.
What i've heard tell before (and what i infer) is that there were loads of successful Igbo businessmen in the North. Success typically breeds resentment amongst the less successful. Naturally the fact that they were practically 100% christian didn't help.

Someone made the analogy to the pre WW2 situation in Germany. Jews had been disliked in Europe for ages but not until Hitler came forward with his incendiary speeches and his 'blame-it-all-on-the-jews' agenda did this dislike spill into bloodshed.

Okay, I see your point. It is likely that the pre-1966 resentment of Igbos was due to:
1. Igbo businessmen being successful in the North.
2. Igbos being practically 100% Christian and living among Northerners who are predominantly Muslim.

So, this pre-1966 resentment exploded into large-scale mayhem and a government-backed pogrom when the January 1966 coup was tagged "an Igbo coup".

Your views seem coherent, but what I don't get is why the federal government refused to protect Igbos. If we blame the mass murder on illiterate hooligans on the streets of Northern Nigeria and their backers hiding behind the scene:

1. Why did Gowon refuse to deploy the so-called "federal might" to protect Igbos from the marauding murderers scattered all over Northern Nigeria?
2. Was Gowon afraid?
3. Did he support the massacre because he also felt threatened by the said successes of the Igbos in pre-1966 Nigeria?
4. Was he just incompetent in ensuring that his orders to protect Igbos were carried out?
5. Was he prevented by his subordinates, e.g., Murtala Mohammed and Ibrahim Haruna, from protecting Igbos because those subordinates felt the mass murder of thousands of Igbos was necessary to appease the angry "Northern streets"?

RichyBlacK:

Okay, I see your point. It is likely that the pre-1966 resentment of Igbos was due to:
1. Igbo businessmen being successful in the North.
2. Igbos being practically 100% Christian and living among Northerners who are predominantly Muslim.

So, this pre-1966 resentment exploded into large-scale mayhem and a government-backed pogrom when the January 1966 coup was tagged "an Igbo coup".

Your views seem coherent, but what I don't get is why the federal government refused to protect Igbos. If we blame the mass murder on illiterate hooligans on the streets of Northern Nigeria and their backers hiding behind the scene:

1. Why did Gowon refuse to deploy the so-called "federal might" to protect Igbos from the marauding murderers scattered all over Northern Nigeria?
2. Was Gowon afraid?
3. Did he support the massacre because he also felt threatened by the said successes of the Igbos in pre-1966 Nigeria?
4. Was he just incompetent in ensuring that his orders to protect Igbos were carried out?
5. Was he prevented by his subordinates, e.g., Murtala Mohammed and Ibrahim Haruna, from protecting Igbos because those subordinates felt the mass murder of thousands of Igbos was necessary to appease the angry "Northern streets"?

the answer to your question is: all of the above.

texazzpete:

In your haste to attack me, did the words 'in Germany' escape you? Please consult your optician as soon as possible.

Sorry, I wasn't rushing to attack you, but this your misrepresentation of history na wa. Try as you might to disambiguate your comments after the fact:

In 1348, because of the hysteria surrounding the Black Plague, Jews were massacred in Chillon, Basle, Stuttgart, Ulm, Speyer, Dresden, Strasbourg, and Mainz. A large number of the surviving Jews fled to Poland, which was very welcoming to Jews at the time.

Are these not German towns? Even Strasbourg which is now in France was part of Germany back then.


Lets not derail this thread.