And may be Torres low performances at Atletico were not his fault. Maybe his mates and manager just couldn't complement his qualities.

Dayokanu,
all those atletico players u listed are very mediocre and he never played with lius garcia.

Eto

Dr Kitaun:

@Krayola

ur assessment of hi surely doesnt say he is better than Henry or ETOO  . . .yes or no ? 

Definitely not better than Henry in his prime, at least not yet . .but he can get there.

Eto'o is an excellent striker, and it is debatable. Eto'o has a stronger case than Torres though just because he has been consistent his entire career, and has scored tonnes at Barcelona.

But Eto's stats at Mallorca are just slightly better than Torres' at Atletico (two goals in Eto's favour in his best year), and Barcelona is a team that has always scored a lot of goals. Liverpool is not, that is why it is so bizarre. At no time in recent Liverpool history have they had such a potent offence, and Torres is the man that i think has given them that extra juice. Few strikers have scored 50 goals so quickly in a new league, and to do it at a team like Liverpool makes it even more impressive.

I believe Torres is a better striker than Eto'o, but i concede that it is debatable and that Eto'o has a strong case to make.

 

Dr Kitaun:

and from what i see from the way u write u dont see him as a complete striker or do u ?

Torres is a striker's striker. He is a one man army in the box, can play to deadly effect in a supporting role as he has shown with Spain, can play out wide, is good with his head, has exquisite technical ability and finishing, is physically strong, he's very fast. . . he can do it all.
[flash=400,400]http://www.metacafe.com/fplayer/2874042/fernando_torres_50_goals_for_liverpool.swf[/flash]

Dr Kitaun:

no free-kicks taking ?

Lets pretend he cant even take a decent free kick to save his life. . . Under what conditions is that an absolutely necessary skill for a striker to possess?

Dr Kitaun:

never been highest goalscorer anywhere ? ATHLETICO, LIVERPOOL, SPAIN ?

Forget free kicks . . which player has ever won that title without taking penalties on a regular basis?

By the way, Torres just scored a hat-trick (and counting) in the first 17 minutes of the Confed cup!! Still watching. . .

@bgees
Who doesn't have bad days? i have seen loads of games with Torres looking like Bobby Zamora and Dave Kitson! I like Torres too but he is still on the come up and has not achieved what Eto'o has in the commitee of strikers playing in europe.Eto'o is top notch

Calm down tocdee its just New Zealand

A-40:

@bgees
Who doesn't have bad days? i have seen loads of games with Torres looking like Bobby Zamora and Dave Kitson! I like Torres too but he is still on the come up and has not achieved what Eto'o has in the commitee of strikers playing in europe.Eto'o is top notch

Thank you, sir.

The pundits here rave about Torres as if he had that magic streak of Henry in his prime.
There were many days Torres was a total self-service in the Premiership.
Eto'o is better than Torres but David Villa is ma favourite. I like a striker that can score all kinda goals and put in the hard work too.

~Sauron~:


Eto'o is better than Torres but David Villa is ma favourite. I like a striker that can score all kinda goals and put in the hard work too.

So,
1. tell us one kind of goal Torres hasn't scored.

2. tell us yu really think Eto and Villa put in more work than Torres

Some Manc friends of yours at the Cafe are shitting themselves at the possibility (silly I know) of Torres going to utd. Maybe you should chat with them.

http://www.redcafe.net/f9/fernando-torres-hmmm-254273/

A40,

didn't u say earlier that Eto delivers time after time? U talked of eto as one player that doesn't have bad days.
Fine , it is just New Zealand but he should be praised for taking advantage.

tocdee:

So,
1. tell us one kind of goal Torres hasn't scored.

2. tell us yu really think Eto and Villa put in more work than Torres

1) Long range efforts(30 yards and beyond)

2) Eto'o and David Villa are hungrier, with a humongous work-rate.
Have u seen David Villa sync with Xavi, Iniesta and Fabregas for Spain?
He is a wonderful passer of the ball. . . . .Only Thierry Henry and Hleb are above D. Villa.

Some Manc friends of yours at the Cafe are shitting themselves at the possibility (silly I know) of Torres going to utd. Maybe you should chat with them.

They will be HAPPIER with Villa and Eto'o coming to Man Utd.
Anything to fill the void would make United fans happy generally be it Torres, Forlan or even Heskey.

~Sauron~:

1) Long range efforts(30 yards and beyond)

See vsMiddlesbrough (away 07/08). Strikers like Eto, Villa, RVN, Raul, Inzaghi, Torres, etc are great but NONE is known for 30-yarders from open play. On the other hand, Midfielders like Lampard, Ronaldo, Alonso, Gerrard, Veron and Zidane are/were excellent with long-range strikes. My point; when you're always around or within the 18 yard box, you simply don't develop that skill to very high levels.

~Sauron~:

1) Long range efforts(30 yards and beyond)

2) Eto'o and David Villa are hungrier, with a humongous work-rate.

I agree that these guys are classy strikers but no one can say that Torres does not work harder than both. In fact Eto has been criticized for seeming uninterested in certain games in the past and came under a lot of stick with the fans. Did you see Torres paly against Madrid or Utd? The guy had pain-killing injections for his ankle prior to those matches and still put in a man-of-the-match peformance in each of them. For Athletico, he was said to burn out before seasons ended because he tried to carry his team along at a tender age. Hence him being made captain at 17!

~Sauron~:


Anything to fill the void would make United fans happy generally be it Torres, Forlan or even Heskey.

Really? Some Utd comments there clearly stated him as being the best striker in the world. But since anyone would do, maybe utd should sign Heskey. Trust me, those same fans will not be too happy .

Did you know; Torres first season in the Epl saw him score against every EPL team at least once except Utd (he's achieved that) and Birmingham.

A-40:

Calm down tocdee its just New Zealand

Oh! sorry if I seemed too excited (did I?). Anyway 'just New Zealand' came within minutes of beating Italy last week. How many strikers will score a hat-trick in 11 minutes against the likes of Sudan not to talk of 'just New Zealand'?

tocdee:

See vs Middlesbrough  (away 07/08). Strikers like Eto, Villa, RVN, Raul, Inzaghi, Torres, etc are great but NONE is known for 30-yarders from open play. On the other hand, Midfielders like Lampard, Ronaldo, Alonso, Gerrard, Veron and Zidane are/were excellent with long-range strikes. My point; when you're always around or within the 18 yard box, you simply don't develop that skill to very high levels.

Villa can ping long-range shots, amigo.
He is quick too. . . . .The only thing he lacks is physical presence but he doesn't even need that cos he is very good at finding space.
Did u see him today? Making 2 assists and scoring a goal.
That is what he does. . . . .He can create, he can FINISH!!!

I agree that these guys are classy strikers but no one can say that Torres does not work harder than both. In fact Eto has been criticized for seeming uninterested in certain games in the past and came under a lot of stick with the fans. Did you see Torres paly against Madrid or Utd? The guy had pain-killing injections for his ankle prior to those matches and still put in a man-of-the-match peformance in each of them. For Athletico, he was said to burn out before seasons ended because he tried to carry his team along at a tender age. Hence him being made captain at 17!

Eto'o is a horse. . . . . .He would work himself ragged and i like his temperament(always smiling).
He never complains. Torres is starting to moan when things don't go his way in the PREM.
I dunno where he got that from(prolly from Cristiano).

Really? Some Utd comments there clearly stated him as being the best striker in the world. But since anyone would do, maybe utd should sign Heskey. Trust me, those same fans will not be too happy .

It's a matter of opinion. . . . . .Of course, most English league fans haven't watched Villa play.

Did you know; Torres first season in the Epl saw him score against every EPL team at least once except Utd (he's achieved that) and Birmingham.

Ronaldo did the same thing in 2007/8 bar Man City(he missed the first tie in Man City)!!!
By the way, Torres did not score against Arsenal in the Premiership in his debut season.

~Sauron~:


By the way, Torres did not score against Arsenal in the Premiership in his debut season.

Yes but he did in the UEFA CL, my assertion wasn't limited to the Epl.

I forgot to mention that Torres is superior to Villa and Eto in the air. Though as I've said earlier, Villa's ball control seems better than Torres'.

tocdee:

Yes but he did in the UEFA CL, my assertion wasn't limited to the Epl. 

I see. . . . .
In all honesty, he was brilliant in his debut season.
He coulda won the golden boot but Ronaldo was just in another level that season.

I forgot to mention that Torres is superior to Villa and Eto in the air. Though as I've said earlier, Villa's ball control seems better than Torres'.

Villa is an animal in the box. . . . . .He can trap the ball, make a precise pass and run into space to receive the pass.
His best piece of skill is his devastating FINISH.

Another point for Torres is that he rarely scores two consecutive goals the same way. And 80% of his goals are classic beauties.
Sometimes I think I see a pair of wings on his back when he plays - Torres is an angel,so heavenly!

And if striking was an art like painting, Torres would have been Van Gogh.

bgees:

Another point for Torres is that he rarely scores two consecutive goals the same way. And 80% of his goals are classic beauties.
Sometimes I think I see a pair of wings on his back when he plays - Torres is an angel,so heavenly!

And if striking was an art like painting, Torres would have been Van Gogh.

@ Tocdee,

Torres did not score against Villa and Birmingham in his debut season.

@ krayola, watching the video of Torres you posted is really tempting damn

he scores all types of goals

@bgees
When i say he has delivered time and time again i simply mean he has delivered in the past and is still delivering.Even Maradona and Pele have looked poor in games so what gives?We have been chanting Eto'o since Sydney 2000 and he is still relevant now! that should tell you something

@tocdee
Did i hear you say Eto'o does not score from long range?Did you watch Confed Cup 2003 Cameroun vs Brazil? My assignment to you is to look for a Torres goal that beats that range.Eto'o scores sizzla's and screamers too! I know y'all are Scousers but don't be overtly sentimental

Eto'o scores a  fair amount of long range goals . .I'm a Barca fan so I know how good he is.  . . But if u watched the video i posted u wouldn't say Torres can't . . 3 or 4 of the goals in that video are absolute bazookas!! Villa, not so much  . . but he is a piece of work and has his pluses as well. 

Anyone that says eto'o never complains doesn't have a clue what he is talking about . . if there is one player at Barca with an attitude problem it is Eto'o . .he just makes up for it with his insane work rate and productivity so Barca fans adore him regardless . .

As far as the Spanish national team goes, villa and torres are TEAM MATES for fukc's sake . . the fact that one has scored much more goals than the other means very little in context. In fact it could just be testament to how well the other is playing. Two of Torres's goals today were from Villa assists, Villa's goal came after great work from Torres down the flanks and a somewhat fortunate pass. That has been the story for while, of course with Villa doing much more scoring.

Villa , Torres, and Eto'o are all top notch . . and anyone with enough background info can make a good argument for either one . . I don't think we have to belittle any in favour of the other . . it seems petty to me.

Thank you A40 for that reminder of the screamer against Brazil.

Etoo dwarfs Torres everywhere.

AT Lesser clubs Mallorca and Atletico, Etoo outperformed Torres winning the Cope del rey

At Big clubs Barca and Liverpool Etoo out performed Torres Scoring vital; goals he has won Pichichi how many times now?

Etoo is highest goal scorer at African nations cup of all time

Etoo>>>>>>>>> Torres

dayokanu:

AT Lesser clubs Mallorca and Atletico, Etoo outperformed Torres winning the Cope del rey

Sevilla won the Copa del rey in 2007, Barcelona didn't win anything . . does that make Kanoute and Fabiano better players that Eto'o, Messi and Ronaldinho . . this argument is flawed on so many different levels

dayokanu:

At Big clubs Barca and Liverpool Etoo out performed Torres Scoring vital; goals he has won Pichichi how many times now?

Barcelona has always been an all out attacking team that scores tonnes of goals . . that Villa and Forlan at lesser teams have outscored Eto'o in recent years does not make Eto'o less of a great striker. Why isn't forlan the best striker in spain if he outscored Eto'o while playing for a lesser team?

In the last 15 years (if ever) Liverpool has NEVER produced a highest goal scorer in the league . . that isn't their style . . u cant try to over simplify things for the sake of ur argument . . i'm sure u know there's more to it than that.

dayokanu:

Etoo is highest goal scorer at African nations cup of all time

And that makes him the best striker in the world? or necessarily makes him better that Torres? please explain . .

dayokanu:

Etoo>>>>>>>>> Torres

In your opinion

Where does Torres beat Etoo

In CL finals he has delivered at the biggest stage where others froze

Tell me why Torres is better than Etoo

In overall ability . . technique, strength, versatility, class, efficency.

Eto'o is a wonderful striker . . he puts the ball in the back of the net. .  he is good at it . . i love him with all my heart and he scores a shit load of goals (misses a shit load of chances too but then who doesn't). Based on stats and trophies he beats Torres hands down. I just think Torres is better by watching him play and seeing all the different things he is so good at.

In overall ability . . technique, strength, versatility, class, efficency.

Eto'o is a wonderful striker . . he puts the ball in the back of the net. . he is good at it . . i love him with all my heart and he scores a shit load of goals (misses a shit load of chances too but then who doesn't). Based on stats and trophies he beats Torres hands down. I just think Torres is better by watching him play and seeing all the different things he is so good at.

Well thats subjective

Etoo beats him based on facts

Facts? u mean stats . . stats hardly ever tell the whole story . .  that Torres is physically stronger than Eto'o is a fact. . there is no stat to measure how this will affect their play and role on the pitch. That  Iniesta and Xavi are technically better than Lampard and Gerrard is a fact, stats do the former two players no justice. U can look at their passing stats, but some will argue that goals are a more relevant stat, especially since Gerrard and Lampard do well in assists as well. Stats never tell the whole story, and I doubt anyone can convince me that they do.

Lampard and Gerrard score all kinds of crazy goals . . Iniesta does not . . going by your "facts" Iniesta wouldn't be a candidate for honours as  midfielder.

Ronaldinho is known mostly for his dribbling, and free-kicks . . watching him will show you that his deadliest qualities are his vision and extensive range of passing

there are other such examples . .

There is too much to football to just use stats to rate players . . subjectivity is always going to be part of it, and a necessary part, as long as it is "honest" . . .

But like I said, Eto'o has a lot on his side. I can't say u are wrong, I can just make my own case for Torres.

If we really want to use stats to solve this then we can't be so superficial . . . we really have to dig deeper. . . .

Using Xavi, Lamprd, Gerrrad and Iniesta for example, we can tell which are better at ball distribution based on their passing stats, we can measure how much distances they cover with the ball to see that Iniesta is better at ball possession, and use goals and assist numbers to see how effective they all are in those departments, and then decide on some kind of method to aggregate all of these, considering which of those qualities are more relevant to being a midfielder, and then find some math wiz to come do the honours. That seems like a very complicated task IMO.

To say that because Samuel Eto'o scored say 30 goals at Barcelona makes his a better striker than another striker that score say 20 playing for say Chelsea, or Aston Villa makes for a good sound-bite on TV, but isn't an intellectually honest analysis in my opinion. You have to consider that Eto has great passers like Xavi and Iniesta on his team, that his team are ALWAYS attacking, that Henry also has very impressive assist numbers, that eto'o is the chief beneficiary of all these other players` qualities, etc. Eto'o also takes about 75% of Barcelona's penalties . . . and we get a lot of them.

Torres does not have these luxuries. Liverpool isn't an all out attacking team . . he can play up front by himself and usually does very effectively, he has broken previously held scoring records for Liverpool, without taking penalties . . etc.


My conclusions are not merely subjective . . I try to consider all relevant variables and not just look at a bunch of numbers.

~Sauron~:

@ Tocdee,

Torres did not score against Villa and Birmingham in his debut season.

I mentioned the Birmingham bit in my earlier post but you're right, he didn't score against Villa either. But Villa park was his debut ground that season and he was injured for the Anfield leg.

@ Krayola

It's good to know you prefer Torres to Eto
but based on stats. Eto is the best!

He is one of only two players, along with Raúl González, to have scored in two UEFA
Champions League finals.

khanye:

@ Krayola

It's good to know you prefer Torres to Eto
but based on stats. Eto is the best!

Based on stats, Eto'o has scored more goals. Stats (the type that are being used to crown Eto'o)can only quantify . .they cannot qualify accurately. "More" measures quantity, "best" takes quality into consideration, and stats don't.

khanye:

He is one of only two players, along with Raúl González, to have scored in two UEFA
Champions League finals.

Congratulations to him.

khanye:

@ Krayola

It's good to know you prefer Torres to Eto
but based on stats. Eto is the best!

He is one of only two players, along with Raúl González, to have scored in two UEFA
Champions League finals.

Based on stats, Inzaghi is the best. But awards are not necessarily awarded on stats grounds alone. Also when you compare stats between two players of different ages, you don't do justice to the younger. Eto has played more matches than Torres so stats would definitely favour him.

dayokanu:

Thank you A40 for that reminder of the screamer against Brazil.

Etoo dwarfs Torres everywhere.

Apart from the Fifa World Player of The Year Awards.

dayokanu:


AT Lesser clubs Mallorca and Atletico, Etoo outperformed Torres winning the Cope del rey

Sure, he was older (African age too ), and you make it sound like he beat Torres to the trophy on his own! Like nadal vs Federer. By that reasoning,  Utaka has won the FA cup so he's better than Torres.  

dayokanu:


At Big clubs Barca and Liverpool Etoo out performed Torres Scoring vital; goals he has won Pichichi how many times now?

That's a terrible statement. Torres has been at Liverpool for only two years so ALL comparison should be made with this time-frame in mind. Torres scored 50 goals in this time, Eto?

dayokanu:


Etoo is highest goal scorer at African nations cup of all time

Imagine Spain being moved to CAF, then think of all the goals Torres and Villa would score in a single tournament!! My point is this; I can score against countries like Sudan, Zambia, Libya etc. But scoring against Germany, Czech, Italy,etc? That's a different proposition. So again, poor argument.

dayokanu:

Etoo>>>>>>>>> Torres

Now I rate Eto VERY highly but that statement was kinda desperate, don't you think?

David Villa
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Eto'o
Torres.