I think the problem here is we are still trying to change the ruling party. We have FAILED AT THAT FOR DECADES NOW, why Change the ruling party? Why not start by Changing the people and then the people can, as a whole, push to change the ruling party? As long Nigerians remain complacent, the ruling party will continue to thrive.

Kobojunkie:

I think the problem here is we are still trying to change the ruling party. We have FAILED AT THAT FOR DECADES NOW, why Change the ruling party? Why not start by Changing the people and then the people can, as a whole, push to change the ruling party? As long Nigerians remain complacent, the ruling party will continue to thrive.

you have a point but how do you go about changing the masses whose only ambition is to join the ruling looters party?

not until you make an example of what happens to the rulling idiots will some people learn. ghana had this shamelessness in looting until rawlings and his team sanitised the place. sadly he forgot his mission too and became another african politician.

making an example of the ruling old idiots will be part of the process, but Kobojunkie has a valid point. if we can't stand together, whatever we build someone else out of greed will bring it down, I believe the time is near, when what used to divide us, isn't paramount anymore, the social prejudices that dulled our past as well as our politics. But as long as we have those old fools still clinging to the dull reasoning of the past, hope fades away in the future, it is time that the young professional masses i.e. (25-35) come together and do something, we have to fight for a change, we should not expect someone else to do it, coming together is the only way

why Change the ruling party? Why not start by Changing the people and then the people can, as a whole, push to change the ruling party? As long Nigerians remain complacent, the ruling party will continue to thrive.

How do you propose to achieve this. As in changing the people?

Changing the people is easier than Changing the ruling party. For one, the people vote/enable/allow those in power to continue. You have 140 million persons to work on in Nigeria, where you have about 1 million people in government to try to convince, people who already enjoy a life of people (it is harder to convince people that a life of plenty, and unlimited power is wrong).

Re-engage the people in the debate on how to change things. Bombard them with information on how it is done in other countries and how people were able to overturn governments by making wiser choices. Give me information to help better inform them. I mean if you were to run a feed on how Yar adua spent 8 solid years in Katsina and did next to nothing, and then you showed them pictures and videos and even documents to prove this, do you think many, even in the north, would go against their conscience to want the man back for a second term?

Enlighten the people on what life ought to be for them considering how much we have and should be able to afford. You see it here on Nairaland how many who do not know better easily excuse ineptitude while many of those who have gone abroad, read books, and KNOW how things work and understand it ought not to be so, vehemently fight to have people understand this.

Inform the people on what these leaders are planning, have already planned and how it goes against their own benefit. For instance, let’s assume the 10-lane road in Abuja is an issue we can pick on here. We can stress the real issues in Abuja and how the federal government, who is responsible for . . . .


TO BE CONTINUED

To assume that our people have not tried is unfair. You need only remember Dele Giwa, Ken Saro- Wiwa, Odi and the ongoing Gbaramatu massacres.
This is a country, a democracy, where security agents will close down AIT & Channels TV for broadcasting the wrong thing.

Our politicians don't reckon with the people, they don't need them because voting is irrelevant, selection as opposed to elections are the order of the day. Their votes don't count.

@ Poster, They say violence is the last resort of diplomacy. Look at the Phillipines, Poland, Romania, Georgia, East Germany. Unfortunately change came through conflict.

Changing the people is easier than Changing the ruling party. The people vote/enable/allow those in power to continue pilfering without rising up in unison to say ENOUGH ALREADY. You have 140 million persons to work on in Nigeria, where you have about 1 million people in government to try to convince, people who already enjoy a life of people (it is harder to convince people that a life of plenty, and unlimited power is wrong).

Re-engage the people in the debate on how to change things. Bombard them with information on how it is done in other countries and how people were able to overturn governments by making wiser choices. Give me information to help better inform them. I mean if you were to run a feed on how Yar adua spent 8 solid years in Katsina and did next to nothing, and then you showed them pictures and videos and even documents to prove this, do you think many, even in the north, would go against their conscience to want the man back for a second term? Engage the people. Have them call in/write in/ vote on online polls and publish the results so they understand that they are not alone in their outrage.

Enlighten the people on what life ought to be for them considering how much we have and should be able to afford. You see it here on Nairaland how many who do not know better easily excuse ineptitude while many of those who have gone abroad, read books, and KNOW how things work and understand it ought not to be so, vehemently fight to have people understand this.

Inform the people on what these leaders are planning, have already planned and how it goes against their own benefit. For instance, let’s assume the 10-lane road in Abuja is an issue we can pick on here. We can stress the real issues in Abuja and how the federal government, who is responsible for the construction and maintenance of all federal roads in Nigeria but has chosen to allocate $1.7 Billion dollars to building roads right there in Abuja (some of the roads already in good shape compared to roads in other parts of the country) while less than $1 billion dollar is put aside for road construction in the rest of Nigeria.
Get people to contact their speakers. Heck, ask those who knew where these goons live to forward their address or something so we can have get people information should they want to match to these compounds to SHOUT OUT THEIR CONCERNS _{(and if possible raze down the place).} Roflmao!!!!

asha 80:

The ruling cabal does not feel shame.After obasanjo said so about himself as far as i am concerend violence on them is the answer.

they dont feel shame you are right

South Korean Ex-President Kills Himself

By CHOE SANG-HUN
Published: May 22, 2009

SEOUL, South Korea — Former President Roh Moo-hyun of South Korea, whose reputation as an upstanding political leader had been tarnished recently by a corruption scandal, committed suicide on Saturday by jumping off a cliff near his retirement home, according to his aides and the police.
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Pool photo by Ahn Young-joon

South Korean President Roh Moo-hyun and his wife Kwon Yang-sook voting at a polling station in Seoul in December 2007.
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Former S. Korean President Apologizes for Scandal (April 30, 2009)
Times Topics: Roh Moo-hyun
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Ahn Young-joon/Associated Press

South Koreans watch a television screen for the news on the death of former President Roh Moo-hyun at the Seoul Railway Station in Seoul, South Korea, on Saturday.
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Lee Jae-Won/Reuters

Roh Moo-hyun, pictured in 2008, served as South Korea's president from 2003 to 2008.

Mr. Roh, 62, died while he was hiking on a hill in Bongha, a village near the southeast corner of South Korea, Moon Jae-in, Mr. Roh’s former presidential chief of staff, said during a news conference. He left a brief will for his family, Mr. Moon said.

Mr. Roh suffered fatal head injuries and was declared dead in a hospital in Pusan, the largest regional city, said Park Chan-jo, a police officer. Mr. Roh was accompanied by a bodyguard during his morning hike.

President Lee Myung-bak, Mr. Roh’s successor, found the news “difficult to believe,” his office said.

Mr. Roh, who had prided himself on being a clean politician during his term from 2003 to 2008, was questioned for 10 hours on April 30 by state prosecutors over his alleged involvement in a corruption scandal that has already landed some of his relatives and aides in jail.

“I can’t look you in the face because of shame,” Mr. Roh told reporters before he presented himself for questioning by prosecutors in Seoul, who had accused him of taking $6 million in bribes from a businessman while in office. “I apologize for disappointing the people.”

In his last posting on his Web site, on April 22, he wrote, “You should now discard me.”

He added: “I no longer symbolize the values you pursue. I am no longer qualified to speak for such things as democracy, progressiveness and justice.”

His apology was typical for a South Korean politician, who is expected to take moral responsibility for a corruption scandal that implicated aides and relatives, even if Mr. Roh denied most of the bribery allegations against him. But prosecutors had been considering indicting him on bribery charges.

In recent weeks, several of his aides and relatives had been arrested or questioned on charges of taking bribes. His elder brother also was arrested in December on bribery charges.

Prosecutors suspected that Mr. Roh, while president, solicited a total of $6 million from a shoe manufacturer, payments that are alleged to have been made to his wife, his son and his brother’s son-in-law. Both his wife and son have been questioned by the prosecutors.

Mr. Roh’s case, which involves a relatively unknown businessman, appeared relatively minor in scandal-ridden South Korean politics. Former presidents Chun Doo-hwan and Roh Tae-woo were imprisoned in the 1990s for collecting hundreds of millions of dollars from the nation’s biggest conglomerate.

The scandal and the ensuing criticism from his political enemies dealt a devastating blow to Mr. Roh.

In his will, which was released to the news media on Saturday, Mr. Roh wrote, “I owe too much to many people. Many people suffered too much because of me.”

He added, “I have thought about this for a long time.”

A former human rights and labor lawyer considered a political maverick, Mr. Roh swept into power in the December 2002 election on the crest of nationalistic — and sometimes anti-American — sentiments among young voters. During his campaign he famously declared that he would be the first South Korean leader “not to kowtow to the Americans.”

But his efforts to free South Korea from its traditional dependence on Washington in its diplomacy alienated many South Koreans.

JJYOU:

SEOUL, South Korea — Former President Roh Moo-hyun of South Korea, whose reputation as an upstanding political leader had been tarnished recently by a corruption scandal, committed suicide on Saturday by jumping off a cliff near his retirement home, according to his aides and the police.

Africa's many moral Lord's would never know what that means.

Kobojunkie:

Africa's many moral Lord's would never know what that means.

you are right my brother. sad

hoeyeadoe:

Independent and vigorous mediA, change the perception of pp abt whats goin on around dem by settin the agenda in a radical way, almost for free of cos.

Exactly what I ve been saying on this thread.

bawomolo:

.

You won't need to do this if the FOI bill was signed. The FOI bill also gives cover to journalists. Freedom of the press is a big issue in Nigeria.

These gluttons know they will be in trouble hence their refusal to pass the FOI Bill into law.
We all know what the bill did to countries like The UK and US, a truly independent press with legal cover for access to vital information will go a long way in reforming.
The Illegal closure of Adaba F.M by the government is a classic example of why we need the FOI Bill.

Kobojunkie:

First Question: Do we have FOI in Nigeria as of Today May 21, 2009?

If YES, then how come we are not taking advantage of it.
If NO, then why do we not have it?

NO
We do not have it because our gluttonic leaders know the implication and they are not ready to ley it see the light of the day.

Kobojunkie:


Do we need to wait for FOI to get signed and put in to law before we do what the @Poster is suggesting we do in this case?

If YES, then we can all be happy and go back to our caves, waiting for that wonderful day when FOI will become law.
IF NO, then what is stopping us from getting information any way we possibly can just as folks like SaharaReport have been to print dirt on those suckers.

YES
The FOI Bill gives us a legal cover to act based on the information we have.
Sites like Sahara Reporters won't be operating in exile if the bill is in place and numerous revelations from them won't go unpunished.
Adaba FM won't be shut down illegally for broadcasting the truth.
I can go on and on to make my point that a key factor to dealing with these Cabal is getting the FOI Bill passed.
For now the Bill is been scuttled but the agitation is still on and hopefully it will be passed.

FOI is a must but knowing naija they will make it not work

JJYOU:

FOI is a must but knowing naija they will make it not work

Yes its a must and I believe we should all channel our energy towards it's passage because if it's not passed, we will continue to get loads of information(in snippets through faceless sources) about the nefarious/criminal activities of these looters with no way of making them accountable or briniging them to book.

You are still missing the whole point here.  If you have ever read my posts on the FOI, you would understand that I started following the news on FOI bill right from Obasanjo’s time. What happened then? Obasanjo, who had the power to make it law REFUSED to sign that bill and so the responsibility was passed on to Yar adua. So, I am not in anyway anti-FOI, nor do I not understand the implications of having such a bill signed into law, but I fail to see why you keep bringing it up when the chances of getting that signed in the next 2 years is next to nill considering we are still dealing with the same riff-raffs here.

IFELEKE:

Exactly what I ve been saying on this thread.These gluttons know they will be in trouble hence their refusal to pass the FOI Bill into law.
We all know what the bill did to countries like The UK and US, a truly independent press with legal cover for access to vital information will go a long way in reforming.

The Bill exists as law that is why it works in the UK and US, and other countries. The Bill is not signed into law in Nigeria and that is why we cannot take advantage of it today.

IFELEKE:

The Illegal closure of Adaba F.M by the government is a classic example of why we need the FOI Bill.

I am not saying we do not need the BILL, I am for the BILL but it has yet to become law in the past 6 years alone.

IFELEKE:

We do not have it because our gluttonic leaders know the implication and they are not ready to ley it see the light of the day.
YES
The FOI Bill gives us a legal cover to act based on the information we have.
Sites like Sahara Reporters won't be operating in exile if the bill is in place and numerous revelations from them won't go unpunished.
Adaba FM won't be shut down illegally for broadcasting the truth.
I can go on and on to make my point that a key factor to dealing with these Cabal is getting the FOI Bill passed.
For now the Bill is been scuttled but the agitation is still on and hopefully it will be passed.

You admit that the reason the bill has yet to be signed into law is because the politicians are busy pushing it to the side knowing the implications on such a bill. I have to ask, since the bill has yet to be passed, and chances are Yar adua is not likely to sign that bill in the next 2 years, and if he gets his way, he may not sign it until he is out of office. How do you intend then, to get that bill signed? How do you intend to fight to get FOI signed into law in the next, say 2 years? I really want to understand why you keep bringing this up on a thread like this?

Kobojunkie:

You are still missing the whole point here.  If you have ever read my posts on the FOI, you would understand that I started following the news on FOI bill right from Obasanjo’s time. What happened then? Obasanjo, who had the power to make it law REFUSED to sign that bill and so the responsibility was passed on to Yar adua. So, I am not in anyway anti-FOI, nor do I not understand the implications of having such a bill signed into law, but I fail to see why you keep bringing it up when the chances of getting that signed in the next 2 years is next to nill considering we are still dealing with the same riff-raffs here.
The Bill exists as law that is why it works in the UK and US, and other countries. The Bill is not signed into law in Nigeria and that is why we cannot take advantage of it today.
I am not saying we do not need the BILL, I am for the BILL but it has yet to become law in the past 6 years alone.
You admit that the reason the bill has yet to be signed into law is because the politicians are busy pushing it to the side knowing the implications on such a bill. I have to ask, since the bill has yet to be passed, and chances are Yar adua is not likely to sign that bill in the next 2 years, and if he gets his way, he may not sign it until he is out of office. How do you intend then, to get that bill signed? How do you intend to fight to get FOI signed into law in the next, say 2 years? I really want to understand why you keep bringing this up on a thread like this?

It is you that isn't getting my point kobo.
I am bringing up the issue of The FOI Bill here because it is key to what the thread starter is agitating.
This Bill is all about uncovering the atrocities perpetrated in the country and it will eradicate class stratification and secure equal citizenship for all the citizenry under the law which is what this thread is all about.
The fact that Obasanjo refused it and yar'adua isn't ready to push for it isn't enough reason not to continue agitating for it.
If we really want to make life difficult for this cabal without using violence then we need a legal cover.

IFELEKE:

It is you that isn't getting my point kobo.
I am bringing up the issue of The FOI Bill here because it is key to what the thread starter is agitating.
This Bill is all about uncovering the atrocities perpetrated in the country and it will eradicate class stratification and secure equal citizenship for all the citizenry under the law which is what this thread is all about.
The fact that Obasanjo resufed it and yar'adua isn't ready to push for it isn't enough reason not to continue agitating for it.
If we really want to make life difficult for this cabal without using violence then we need a legal cover.

Kobojunkie:

You are still missing the whole point here.  If you have ever read my posts on the FOI, you would understand that I started following the news on FOI bill right from Obasanjo’s time. What happened then? Obasanjo, who had the power to make it law REFUSED to sign that bill and so the responsibility was passed on to Yar adua. So, I am not in anyway anti-FOI, nor do I not understand the implications of having such a bill signed into law, but I fail to see why you keep bringing it up when the chances of getting that signed in the next 2 years is next to nill considering we are still dealing with the same riff-raffs here.
The Bill exists as law that is why it works in the UK and US, and other countries. The Bill is not signed into law in Nigeria and that is why we cannot take advantage of it today.
I am not saying we do not need the BILL, [b]I am for the BILL [/b]but it has yet to become law in the past 6 years alone.
You admit that the reason the bill has yet to be signed into law is because the politicians are busy pushing it to the side knowing the implications on such a bill. I have to ask, since the bill has yet to be passed, and chances are Yar adua is not likely to sign that bill in the next 2 years, and if he gets his way, he may not sign it until he is out of office. How do you intend then, to get that bill signed? How do you intend to fight to get FOI signed into law in the next, say 2 years? I really want to understand why you keep bringing this up on a thread like this?

na becos your oyinbo too much somebody dey miss your write up

IFELEKE:

It is you that isn't getting my point kobo.
I am bringing up the issue of The FOI Bill here because it is key to what the thread starter is agitating.
This Bill is all about uncovering the atrocities perpetrated in the country and it will eradicate class stratification and secure equal citizenship for all the citizenry under the law which is what this thread is all about.
The fact that Obasanjo refused it and yar'adua isn't ready to push for it isn't enough reason not to continue agitating for it.
If we really want to make life difficult for this cabal without using violence then we need a legal cover.

;

well, just so you know, I choose to look at things a little differently from you, and your interprtation of what @Poster is asking of, and so FOI is not necessary for what I am advocating we get into at this time.

Kobojunkie:

;

well, just so you know, I choose to look at things a little differently from you, and your interprtation of what @Poster is asking of, and so FOI is not necessary for what I am advocating we get into at this time.

Well, goodluck on your advocacy, I'll Stick with mine.

Dis Guy:

what the poster is suggesting is what is already in encomium and all those funny magazines in nigeria
no one pay attention to them any more, they and many people just see it as a marketing ploy

Seriously, don’t you think most of it is simply for marketing? I know I do.

Dis Guy:

you get headlines saying 'chairman impregnates friends daughter!
the politicians dont even blink talk less of feeling ashamed!

But the problem they do not blink if because the people themselves are not seriously outraged by the news. Imagine here. Why was the ex new-york governor ousted? Because the people were outraged, and disgusted, and called for him to get out.

Dis Guy:

in fact the citizen dont even buy the paper- not like they've not heard it before!
all the millions,billions we read in the papers day in day out is part ofd it
the bottomline everyone's grown a thick skin to all these sort of news
the politicians are either accusing their rivals of cooking up stories or pro/anti third term
there's no shame in our culture anymore that is just it!!
We need to put the fear of GUN into these mothafukas!
if we can pay people to get documents we can surely pay people to fire bomb
their family homes

Isn’t it the people’s part to make sure that those who shame them are kicked out or made an example of here? So if the people have grown a thick skin, it is the fault of the politicians?

Changing the people is easier than Changing the ruling party. The people vote/enable/allow those in power to continue pilfering without rising up in unison to say ENOUGH ALREADY. You have 140 million persons to work on in Nigeria, where you have about 1 million people in government to try to convince, people who already enjoy a life of people (it is harder to convince people that a life of plenty, and unlimited power is wrong).

Kobojunkie, I agree with what you advocate, that the people need to have a different mindset. However, voting in Nigeria is useless and a waste of time. The job at hand is not to convince those 1 million in power that their life of plenty is wrong. No, the power needs to be taken from them and handed to more capable individuals; those who have wrongfully abused their office have to be made accountable. The people should not turn a blind eye to them.

Re-engage the people in the debate on how to change things. Bombard them with information on how it is done in other countries and how people were able to overturn governments by making wiser choices. Give me information to help better inform them. I mean if you were to run a feed on how Yar adua spent 8 solid years in Katsina and did next to nothing, and then you showed them pictures and videos and even documents to prove this, do you think many, even in the north, would go against their conscience to want the man back for a second term? Engage the people. Have them call in/write in/ vote on online polls and publish the results so they understand that they are not alone in their outrage.


Enlighten the people on what life ought to be for them considering how much we have and should be able to afford. You see it here on Nairaland how many who do not know better easily excuse ineptitude while many of those who have gone abroad, read books, and KNOW how things work and understand it ought not to be so, vehemently fight to have people understand this.

Inform the people on what these leaders are planning, have already planned and how it goes against their own benefit. For instance, let’s assume the 10-lane road in Abuja is an issue we can pick on here. We can stress the real issues in Abuja and how the federal government, who is responsible for the construction and maintenance of all federal roads in Nigeria but has chosen to allocate $1.7 Billion dollars to building roads right there in Abuja (some of the roads already in good shape compared to roads in other parts of the country) while less than $1 billion dollar is put aside for road construction in the rest of Nigeria.
Get people to contact their speakers. Heck, ask those who knew where these goons live to forward their address or something so we can have get people information should they want to match to these compounds to SHOUT OUT THEIR CONCERNS (and if possible raze down the place). Roflmao!!!!

Your idealistic ideas are endearing. There is nothing wrong with information – in fact, informing the people is one of the cornerstones of a true democracy. But this is not enough in the case of Nigeria. What is needed is a form of movement – of maybe just a few people – who come together with the purpose of not only providing the people with information, but also mobilising lawyers or other legal practitioners (could be, for example, well established practitioners but also newly qualified ones who will work pro bono); this group would need to take the corrupt leaders to court. We cannot rely on a governmental body such as the EFCC alone. The select group that I propose would make sure that corrupt leaders are taken to court. In addition, they would keep the people informed at all times, as to what is going on.
The select group would ideally continuously recruit others to join them. Here, universities could play an important role in supplying young and dynamic, enlightened and qualified individuals.
Here, leadership is key, as it is in all facets of society. This group would show that they are actively engaging in exposing and taking to court corrupt politicians. Also, they would encourage people who hold incriminating evidence against such corrupt individuals to come forward and present it, thereby enabling the gathering of a strong evidence base which would aid in weeding out the bad apples.
Sometimes, when trying to topple a corrupt system, it is better to start at the bottom and slowly work your way up.
I do agree with you that information is important, but in addition to this, there needs to be a more organised approach in the form of a select group of people who are willing to give their all and make sacrifices in order to make Nigeria a better country for the people.

That would be easier said than done

beystwin:

Kobojunkie, I agree with what you advocate, that the people need to have a different mindset. However, voting in Nigeria is useless and a waste of time. The job at hand is not to convince those 1 million in power that their life of plenty is wrong. No, the power needs to be taken from them and handed to more capable individuals; those who have wrongfully abused their office have to be made accountable. The people should not turn a blind eye to them.

Well, for one, we are not actually VOTING today, or are we? So, this is not necessarily about Voting today as it is more informing the people and enabling them make better choices come, say 2011, or when next they need to go to the booths in their states.

beystwin:

Your idealistic ideas are endearing. There is nothing wrong with information – in fact, informing the people is one of the cornerstones of a true democracy. But this is not enough in the case of Nigeria. What is needed is a form of movement – of maybe just a few people – who come together with the purpose of not only providing the people with information, but also mobilizing lawyers or other legal practitioners (could be, for example, well established practitioners but also newly qualified ones who will work pro bono); this group would need to take the corrupt leaders to court.

1) I would think it would be clear from the start that a corp. of some sort would be needed to get information across to the people and also make sure they stay informed.
2) Mobilizing lawyers to take corrupt leaders to court is a whole ‘nother issue entirely. If you read my post clearly, I never once stated I am about taking them to court at this time. I am simply out to get people informed, and to help them realize the KEY is in their hands. Without that, nothing will ever happen or change.

beystwin:

We cannot rely on a governmental body such as the EFCC alone. The select group that I propose would make sure that corrupt leaders are taken to court. In addition, they would keep the people informed at all times, as to what is going on.
The select group would ideally continuously recruit others to join them. Here, universities could play an important role in supplying young and dynamic, enlightened and qualified individuals.
Here, leadership is key, as it is in all facets of society. This group would show that they are actively engaging in exposing and taking to court corrupt politicians. Also, they would encourage people who hold incriminating evidence against such corrupt individuals to come forward and present it, thereby enabling the gathering of a strong evidence base which would aid in weeding out the bad apples.
Sometimes, when trying to topple a corrupt system, it is better to start at the bottom and slowly work your way up.
I do agree with you that information is important, but in addition to this, there needs to be a more organised approach in the form of a select group of people who are willing to give their all and make sacrifices in order to make Nigeria a better country for the people.

Mind you, there have been groups in the past who have come together to try what you suggest above and the reason each and every one of them have failed to date is simply because they have never really had the people’s power on their side. They have never really had the people fighting WITH them. I mean sure we read of them in the news and proclaim in the presence of our peers that we support them, but the vast majority have never really stepped out to STAND WITH THEM, NEVER. And that, I believe is the main reason why their efforts seem to have little impact on the whole.

I still do not think we need to, or have reached the stage where we can make it about those in leadership. Right now we have a more serious issue which I believe is as a result of inaction on the part of the people. Once that problem is solved to an extent, then all you have outlined above will happen spontaneously. Till then, NOTHING, absolutely NOTHING will be accomplished.