olabowale:

Mark 12 verse 29; Jesus saying that there is a God that he and his listeners serve or aught to be serving.

Deutronomy 6 Verse 4: An old timer, I am going just say that he is a prophet from the time before Jesus saying that there is a God that he and his listeners serve or aught to be serving.

If by leap of faith, the Christian says that Jesus is God, then by the same amount of leap of faith the Old Testament people will have to say that their Old Testament prophet who made this statement first is also a God.

I guess everyone is a god in the Bible. All you have to do is say and or do something supernatural! But every prophet has some of those, specific to him. Moses pathed a sea and while he saved his people, he drowned his enemies by it!

I wonder why the Old Testament people didn't say Moses or any prophet, including the one that Jesus copied his Deutoronomy statement in Mark was not called God?

But copying is plagiarism, ain't it? Whats so special about a god that is not original that he had to copy another earlier god? Is that god deserving of any worship?

Now before somebody accuses me of using a reverse process to defend Islam at the demise of Christianity, I will simply ask these: Is Christianity not an organized religion, practised by humans, and propagated against intended demise of others, including Islam? If all the answers are simply yes, it should not be surprising that I am applying what Christianity is qualified by to expose its many faults.

Its book is corrupt, since it opposes itself in mant ways; within New Testament, you find verses going against one another. And within the Bible Testaments, the OT is opposing the NT. There is no congruency in it, if we consider Mark 12:29 and Deutoronomy 6:4, as our example. Same exact sentence, spoken by two different people at different times. Could their be inconsitencies, if there is honesty in thoughts? If the earlier speaker is not God, can the later speaker be God? No!

If he were God, his statement would have definitely changed to indicate that he is theGod that the earlier speaker was referring to! In the same form that Judaism was organized after a tribe is the same way Christianity was organized after an individual. Should it not be possible that the two are artificial, and not mandated on humans by God?

But it is interesting to note that Judah, the son of Jacob was actually son of Israel, and could not have been a Jew by religion. He must have practiced the same religion as his father, his grandfather, his great grandfather Ibrahim (AS). (And Ibrahim was not a Jew or a Christian).

Jesus must not have been a Christian! The label Christian came after him. He was observed to prostrate his face in prayer at the garden. Not one time, but many times in one single day; at least evening at night and very early in the morning. No body says that his prayer time coincided with todays Muslims'. But for sure he submitted his will demostrated by his many prayers, supplications "Not as I will but as you will", to his Creator!

If thats not Islam, it is definitely not Christianity and for sure not Judaism. I know about the Jews. Do you know?! Disappointed you shall remain.

Deuteronomy 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Mark 12:29
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

John 10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

Olabs, u are so pathetic. , , , what else have u got to say?

21. How can u foolishly believe that God's covenant with Noah caused the rainbow. Science has proven otherwise.

Scientific evidences that establish that Noah's flood indeed happened have been tendered on this forum, our resident atheists and geologist COULD NOT refute this evidences.

You have tendered no such scientific evidence. There are no real archaeological or geological evidences of a global flood.  There are plenty of half-baked christian apologist' interpretation of data that seem to point to a global flood, but good science always shoot them down. It is ok, very ok to believe in the bible account of the global flood but there is no geological evidence for it.

where were u when mazaje, huxley and other atheists and geologists could not refute the overbearing evidences that established noah's flood?

ever heard of polystrate fossils? Do a google search on nairaland.

noetic2:

where were u when mazaje, huxley and other atheists and geologists could not refute the overbearing evidences that established noah's flood?

ever heard of polystrate fossils? Do a google search on nairaland.

Toneyb and I did, You on the other hand did not even refute any of the questiones they asked you only said that they copied and pasted without refuting it. By the way there is no geological word as "polystrate fossils". It is not even a geological according to wikipedia and the other link that was provided.

dalaman:

Toneyb and I did, You on the other hand did not even refute any of the questiones they asked you only said that they copied and pasted without refuting it. By the way there is no geological word as "polystrate fossils". It is not even a geological [b]according to wikipedia [/b]and the other link that was provided.

you and toneyb said u got ur refutations from talk origin and wikipedia. so why on earth should I reply u guys?

apart from the fact I dont draw issues with toneyb. . . .u (dalaman) clearly stated that u knew nothing about the subject matter, why should i debate with u, if u are going to rely entirely on google and wikipedia? i'd better debate with google or wikipedia.

Even the renowned nairaland geologist, mazaje, could not REFUTE anything from his head, he had to copy and paste.

I consider it intellectually unhealthy to debate with anyone who relies on other sources to refute my claims, without displaying any amount of understanding. No offence intended. . . . .but I assumed that u, mazaje and toneyb were simply antagonising my stance without any concrete reason but based on pre-conceived atheistic sentiments.

noetic2:

you and toneyb said u got ur refutations from talk origin and wikipedia. so why on earth should I reply u guys?

apart from the fact I dont draw issues with toneyb. . . .u (dalaman) clearly stated that u knew nothing about the subject matter, why should i debate with u, if u are going to rely entirely on google and wikipedia? i'd better debate with google or wikipedia.

Even the renowned nairaland geologist, mazaje, could not REFUTE anything from his head, he had to copy and paste.

I consider it intellectually unhealthy to debate with anyone who relies on other sources to refute my claims, without displaying any amount of understanding. No offence intended. . . . .but I assumed that u, mazaje and toneyb were simply antagonising my stance without any concrete reason but based on pre-conceived atheistic sentiments.

I am sorry but the claims are not yours, you only copied the claims of others. I am not an atheist, you said that the post from wikipedia and talk origin did not refute your claims, Toneyb and I showed where they refuted your claims in details, I at least expected you to come and defend your position but you never did you simply refused to address them. I am not antagonizing your stance I only copied and pasted the refutations to your claims from talk origin, Toneyb did the same from wikipedia, you should defend your position at least.

Am pathetic I know. Olabowale is completely different from Olabs! There is no s anywhere in my name. You wanna give me a nickname, it should have simply be Ola, or something from my name. But no s should have to appear anywhere. I can accept the fake name from Osisi, its unacceptable from you, a yoruba man.

But then what do I expect, if I relate your thoughts with the below:

Deuteronomy 6:4
4 Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God, the LORD is one.

Mark 12:29
29"The most important one," answered Jesus, "is this: 'Hear, O Israel, the Lord our God, the Lord is one.

John 10: 30 "I and the Father are one."

Olabs, u are so pathetic. , , , what else have u got to say?

A casual look at the first 2 verses Deutronomy and Mark, will tell any logically thinking person that the two verses meant the same thing to the speaker(s). If One of the speaker therefore spoke the John verse that you presented, he is either deluded, deranged, retarted or some evil person had spoken it and completely lied it was from the speaker of Mark or Deutoronomy verse! Which one is it?

Is the Biblical Jesus a liar or is it the writer(s) of the Bible who lied? Among the Prophets that came from the loin of Jacob (Israel), none of them, according to the Israelites/Israelis is more successful than Moses, their LIBERATOR Prophet!

This man, Moses before leaving Pharaoh and his army in ruin, performed about 8 major miracles. He utterly destroyed Pharaoh and his super army at the sea. All the while, he used only a dead stick, worthy of any notice!

He made this stick became a big snake that ate snakes alive. This stick became a snake, three different times. The second time Pharaoh was about to run for his life, for if it is not his arrogance, he stayed.

After crossing the sea, Moses brought about food for his people, without them tilling any soil. He made water cush out of rocks, with each nation by tribe having its own separately. He spoke to God by hearing the Voice of the Almighty directly with his own ears. And in the process of shepharding his people, he at least temporarily stopped them from Idolatry by destroying the Golden Calf upon his return from a 40 nigtd and forty days seclusion, where he got the "Commandments" from his Lord. And before he died, he told his people to kill a cow and used portion from it to touch a dead man, who by this action will wake up and reveal his murderer! All of these happened by the hand of this noble man.

The jews knew who God was before Jesus came about. They told Moses that it was safer for him to tell them what God said, instead of chancing the possibility of hearing the Voice of God, as ordinary people without prophetic office or authority! You will think that such a God who is never been seen by mortar soul, will not suddenly drag Himself on the filthy level man, who are sinners with original sin, according to the Bible!

Jesus will have to be that God? What a way for your god to appear to man, through the birth canal of a woman, like every other child who came from the womb of the mother. Blood, the water breaking, after birth and placenta and cord, and all that "Jazz!"

You should be ashamed that your god sucked mother's breast for nourishment.

My illah, Allah the Almighty is far above what you associate with Him!

dalaman:

I am sorry but the claims are not yours, you only copied the claims of others. I am not an atheist, you said that the post from wikipedia and talk origin did not refute your claims, Toneyb and I showed where they refuted your claims in details, I at least expected you to come and defend your position but you never did you simply refused to address them. I am not antagonizing your stance I only copied and pasted the refutations to your claims from talk origin, Toneyb did the same from wikipedia, you should defend your position at least.

Fine. I copied established claims but presented them in my own understanding. why didnt u, mazaje and toneyb do the same? why did u all just copy and paste?

why should I defend the claims, when nothing u said came from ur own understanding? u had no reason to disagree cos u did not show any understanding of the subject matter, all u did was to antagonise my position for convenience.

If and when u disagree with any of my positions and can defend ur claims without copy-paste inactions, I will gladly engage u. otherwise I consider it all pointless.

why not study the evidences available, understand what they entail and take a position. If u disagree with my position, then fine, we can debate.
,

olabowale:

Am pathetic I know. Olabowale is completely different from Olabs! There is no s anywhere in my name. You wanna give me a nickname, it should have simply be Ola, or something from my name. But no s should have to appear anywhere. I can accept the fake name from Osisi, its unacceptable from you, a yoruba man.

But then what do I expect, if I relate your thoughts with the below:

A casual look at the first 2 verses Deutronomy and Mark, will tell any logically thinking person that the two verses meant the same thing to the speaker(s). If One of the speaker therefore spoke the John verse that you presented, he is either deluded, deranged, retarted or some evil person had spoken it and completely lied it was from the speaker of Mark or Deutoronomy verse! Which one is it?

Is the Biblical Jesus a liar or is it the writer(s) of the Bible who lied? Among the Prophets that came from the loin of Jacob (Israel), none of them, according to the Israelites/Israelis is more successful than Moses, their LIBERATOR Prophet!

This man, Moses before leaving Pharaoh and his army in ruin, performed about 8 major miracles. He utterly destroyed Pharaoh and his super army at the sea. All the while, he used only a dead stick, worthy of any notice!

He made this stick became a big snake that ate snakes alive. This stick became a snake, three different times. The second time Pharaoh was about to run for his life, for if it is not his arrogance, he stayed.

After crossing the sea, Moses brought about food for his people, without them tilling any soil. He made water cush out of rocks, with each nation by tribe having its own separately. He spoke to God by hearing the Voice of the Almighty directly with his own ears. And in the process of shepharding his people, he at least temporarily stopped them from Idolatry by destroying the Golden Calf upon his return from a 40 nigtd and forty days seclusion, where he got the "Commandments" from his Lord. And before he died, he told his people to kill a cow and used portion from it to touch a dead man, who by this action will wake up and reveal his murderer! All of these happened by the hand of this noble man.

The jews knew who God was before Jesus came about. They told Moses that it was safer for him to tell them what God said, instead of chancing the possibility of hearing the Voice of God, as ordinary people without prophetic office or authority! You will think that such a God who is never been seen by mortar soul, will not suddenly drag Himself on the filthy level man, who are sinners with original sin, according to the Bible!

Jesus will have to be that God? What a way for your god to appear to man, through the birth canal of a woman, like every other child who came from the womb of the mother. Blood, the water breaking, after birth and placenta and cord, and all that "Jazz!"

You should be ashamed that your god sucked mother's breast for nourishment.

My illah, Allah the Almighty is far above what you associate with Him!

This is ridiculous. what point did u just make now?

Jesus is GOD.

noetic2:

Fine. I copied established claims but presented them in my own understanding. why didnt u, mazaje and toneyb do the same? why did u all just copy and paste?

why should I defend the claims, when nothing u said came from ur own understanding? u had no reason to disagree cos u did not show any understanding of the subject matter, all u did was to antagonise my position for convenience.

If and when u disagree with any of my positions and can defend ur claims without copy-paste inactions, I will gladly engage u. otherwise I consider it all pointless.

why not study the evidences available, understand what they entail and take a position. If u disagree with my position, then fine, we can debate.
,

Established claims by who? The claims are not yours, all you did was copy and paste them by simply parapharsing what the original writer wrote down. The writers claims have been refuted, I can also parapharse and claim that as my own understanding, it seems you are not really interested in having any kind of conversation on this because you do not really understand the issue any better than me.

dalaman:

Established claims by who? The claims are not yours, all you did was copy and paste them by simply parapharsing what the original writer wrote down. The writers claims have been refuted, I can also parapharse and claim that as my own understanding, it seems you are not really interested in having any kind of conversation on this because you do not really understand the issue any better than me.

what are u talking about?

u just derive pleasure in coming up with meaningless and irrelevant postulation. YOU CANNOT PROVE THAT I COPIED AND PASTED ANYTHING FROM ANYWHERE, . . .BECAUSE I DID NOT.

Next time u want to debate, read up in advance.

JeSoul:

Lol . . . Noetic I very much enjoyed your post and found the above quote to be most hilarious   

 

I am happy u enjoyed it.

@
nice no great posting noetic

all

what i have observed about the response from anti christianity is that they
1. couldnt state why they are anti christian the way noetic boldly stated why he/she is a christian
2. tend to digress once in a while and inject a divergent issues.

so please be bold like noetic and show us why u are what u are. period

isnt it strange that neither the mohammedans nor the atheists could boldly state their case.

noetic2:

isnt it strange that neither the mohammedans nor the atheists could boldly state their case.

Here are some of the reasons why I am an atheist.

1.There is no physical proof for god's existence. Religion relies mainly on guilt, fear and outlandish and completely unverifiable promises that have no evidence to gain obedience.

2.Everything I used to think was god's doing, science has explained.

3.Men created all the gods according to their image and understandıng of the world in which they lived in. They ascribe everything they knew and what they didnt know to their the god. they created to him to help them better understand the complications of life and the world. The unıverse as we now know it makes the bible god seem too petty and too small. The universe as we know it is contınually expandıng and new stars are being created. The bible says god finished creating the heavens and the earth and rested but the universe as we now know it is still creating new stars.

4. The bible is full of abuse, contradictions, and unscientific nonsense(noah flood, Adam and Eve story, stars fighting along side men in the sky, creation story. sun moviıng from place to place Story of Jesus.). It is also full of hatred, divisive culturally, unnecessary laws that create suffering, sexual subjugation of women, slavery, etc. etc. etc.Most religions have this problem since they originate from the violent stone age.  However, you could have a religion that has peaceful or 'nice' origins - but it still has nothing to do with it being true or false. The creation stories in the bible has been debunked by science.

5. There is absolute no way to test any claim made by the proponents of god no evidence to show that the god being talked about interacts with humanity. Miracles are fake, unequivocal miracles do not occur and there is no evidence to show that god answers prayers. Prayer is totally subjective and cannot be shown to have any more efficacy than pure chance.(scientific researches have been conducted and they all showed that there wasnt any difference between those that were prayed upon and those that were not prayed upon). If god exist then Christians should be healing the sick, raising the dead walking on water as Jesus said those that believe in him would. No evidence at all to show that god interacts wıth humans in any way. if there is a god then there should be evidence to show that he interacts with humans but there is no such evidence at all.

6.The existence of evil(natural evil), and it was obvious that there isn't a god who cared at all.

7. No god has ever told people anything himself all we have are ancient writings from people that lived thousand of years before us telling other people that god told them to tell them what to do. Scripture contains too much that is vague, metaphorical and symbolic to be instructions from a divine being to humans. A perfect being would be expected to be able to communicate much better than that with out any confusion what so ever and most of the stories were transmitted from one generation to another through oral traditions.

8. The bible contains many failed prophecies, predictions and unfulfilled promises of god who is supposed to be an all powerful and all knowing deity an all knowing deity that makes false prediction or prophecies is impossible. The bible contains a lot of historical errors and events that never happened at all.( eg Infanticide ordered by king Herod when baby Jesus was born, the exodus, Noah's flood, most of the conquest in Joshua, most of the stories have no archaeological evidence at all).

9. Believers in god do not even agree on his basic nature at all. Too many sects all trying to tell people what god wants and how he should be worshipped, people of the same sects do not agree with each other, even though they believe in the same god. People just keep creating god to fit their own world view hence the endless disagreements over his basic nature. Everyone keeps changing the stories to fit to their likings,  You always hear  things lile"Oh, i don't like hearing this, let's pretty it up and say it's a metaphor." yeah, what better time than to make up BS just to justify your god's actions.

10. There is no discernible difference between believing in god and having an imaginary friend. People generally rely on facts and evidence in every human endeavour except when it comes to god because the god hypothesis relies and depends only on fear.

11. Every culture that has existed has had god myths and other superstitions. A good study into the history of christianity and how it started shows that there is nothing about it that is divine, its all man made like all the religions that came before it. People sat down and decided to put the bible which people regards as the word of god through votes. people voted on it and decided to choose what was the word of god and what was to be banned and not included as the word of god. No evidence of a historical jesus as portrayed in the bible, no out side document to corroborate any of the gospel narratives about jesus.

12. No evidence for a soul and life after death. No evidence at all to show that human consciousness survives bodily death.

I'd like to commend u for taking up the challenge. Regardless of whether I agree with ur opinion/position or not, I believe that u have done well to boldly attempt to state ur case. I hold nothing against u or ur beliefs, provided u are not dogmatic about it and are open to objective disagreements that address the issues involved in ur beliefs.

toneyb:

Here is my the reason why I am an atheist.

1.There is no physical proof for god's existence. Religion relies on guilt, fear and outlandish promises to gain obedience.

2.Everything I used to think was god's doing, science has explained.

3.Men created all the gods according to their Image.

wouldnt it be nice if u explained further? These are simple statements, that holds no meaning or water within an intellectual context.

4. The bible is full of abuse, contradictions, and unscientific nonsense(noah flood, Adam and Eve story, stars fighting along side men in the sky, creation story. Story of Jesus.). It is also full of hatred, divisive culturally, unnecessary laws that create suffering, sexual subjugation of women, slavery, etc. etc. etc.Most religions have this problem since they originate from the violent stone age.  However, you could have a religion that has peaceful or 'nice' origins - but it still has nothing to do with it being true or false. The creation stories in the bible has been debunked by science.

I dont think u meant to state why u are not a christian. . . . . u meant to state why EXACTLY u are an atheist.  . . .wouldnt it be objective if u stick to that?

When, where, how was the creation story of the bible debunked by science? . . . . .without attempting to derail the thread, please open a thread to educate me on how science has done this.

5. There is absolute no way to test any claim made by the proponents of god no evidence to show that the god being talked about interacts with humanity. Miracles are fake, Unequivocal miracles do not occur and there is no evidence to show that god answers prayers. Prayer is totally subjective and cannot be shown to have any more efficacy than pure chance.(scientific researches have been conducted and they all showed that there was any difference between those that were prayed upon and those that were not prayed upon). If god exist then Christians should be healing the sick, raising the dead walking on water as Jesus said those that believe in him would.

I dont know how to interpret this that u have stated. should I see it as an opinion or as a fact. If its just a mere personal opinion then its fine, but if u are attempting to pass ANY of these as facts then u have goofed.

u Cannot prove that God does not interact with humanity . . . . I believe I addressed this in the OP.
u also cannot prove that miracles are fake . . . . .  How do u explain personal circumstances evidenced by numerous others.
And u seem not to understand the very essence of prayer or the recipient before u can assert that prayers are not answered. . . . .there are rules involved, its as simple as that.

u have stated no fact. . . . I will regard them as mere opinions. . . . .u are entitled to ur opinion.

6.The existence of evil(natural evil), and it was obvious that there isn't a God who cared.

can u attempt to explain further. This statement on its own makes little or no meaning.

7. No god has ever told people anything himself all we have are ancient writings from people that lived thousand of years before us telling other people that god told them to tell them what to do. Scripture contains too much that is vague, metaphorical and symbolic to be instructions from a divine being to humans. A perfect being would be expected to be able to communicate much better than that with out any confusion what so ever and most of the stories were transmitted from one generation to another through oral traditions.

This might make perfect sense within the atheist community but makes no sense within the intellectual community.

by the above u are simply trying to define the God concept and personality into ur preconceived mode of communication. . . . This is unacceptable. cos u could have also chosen not to reply to this thread, and u could also have chosen not to reply in English. The ultimate choice of communication and mode of communication was urs as a respondent and I think it is logically safe to state that such should also be left with God.

U also mentioned perfection . . .  , but sincerely I dont think u know the meaning of perfection . . . .please prove me wrong. . . .what is perfection?

8. The bible contains many failed prophecies, predictions and unfulfilled promises of god who is supposed to be an all powerful and all knowing deity an all knowing deity that makes false prediction or prophecies is impossible. The bible contains a lot of historical errors and events that never happened at all.( eg Infanticide ordered by king Herod when baby Jesus was born, the exodus, Noah's flood, most of the conquest in Joshua, most of the stories have no archaeological evidence at all).

No one asked why u are not a christian. . .  . .its all about why u are an atheist. u cannot lay the responsibilities of ur failure on the footstep of the other person.

About archaeological and historical evidences,
There are evidences abound that establishes the birth of Jesus, the flood of Noah and several other biblical stories, just like there are several other evidences that suggest contrary. It is up to each individual to deduce as appropriate and objectively as possible. So far, there is NO compelling evidence to suggest that Jesus is a fictional person.

9. Believers in god do not even agree on his basic nature at all. Too many sects all trying to tell people what god wants and how he should be worshipped, people of the same sects do not agree with each other, even though they believe in the same god. People just keep creating god to fit their own world view hence the endless disagreements over his basic nature. Everyone keeps changing the stories to fit to their likings, "Oh, i don't like hearing this, let's pretty it up and say it's a metaphor." yeah, what better time than to make up BS just to justify your god's actions?

U honestly dont have a point here.

u as toneyb are subject to several interpretations, misinterpretations, conceptions and misconceptions by several people from every nook and carny of this world. (I am assuming u are a notable person). It is therefore up to me to find out who u really are, what u believe in?, what u want? what u like and dislike? what u are up to? et all . . . .I believe that it is very unintelligent on my part to either discredit or disbelieve ur existence based on the misconception of Huxley, Pilgrim, Pastor AIO, olobowale et all about u. It is my personal and individual responsibility to find out who toneyb really is.

10. There is no discernible difference between believing in god and having an imaginary friend. People generally rely on facts and evidence in every human endeavour except when it comes to god.

  can u explain further?

11. Every culture that has existed has had god myths and other superstitions. A good study into the history of christianity and how it started shows that there is nothing about it that is divine, its all man made. People sat down and decided to put the bible which people regards as the word of god through votes. people voted on it and decided to choose what was the word of god and what was to be banned and not included as the word of god. No evidence of a historical jesus as portrayed in the bible, no out side document to corroborate any of the gospel narratives about jesus.

This argument holds no water . . . .when juxtaposed with the personal relationship and revelations of everyday common christians like me about God. I will assume that this is just a personal opinion and not a fact.

12. No evidence for a soul and life after death. No evidence at all to show that human consciousness survives bodily death.

There is also no evidence to suggest that there is NO life after death. wouldnt it be better, going to the afterlife prepared?

noetic2:


wouldnt it be nice if u explained further? These are simple statements, that holds no meaning or water within an intellectual context.

How are these sımple statements? I said that there is no physical proof for god's existence. Religion relies mainly on guilt, fear and outlandish and completely unverifiable promises that have no evidence to gain obedience. This is a very clear stament.

When, where, how was the creation story of the bible debunked by science? . . . . .without attempting to derail the thread, please open a thread to educate me on how science has done this.

I don't have to open a new thread to do that, The universe as we now know(Thanks to science) it is contınually expanding and new stars are being created and formed. The bible says god finished creating the heavens and the earth(universe) and rested after the 6th day. science(astronomy) has shown that the universe as we now know it is still creating new stars. The bible says that god created two lights. The sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night but Science has shown that the moon is not light. The sun is light but the moon is not light. The moon only reflects light from the sun just as the earth does when viewed from the moon. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? All animals were originally created as herbivores according to genesis creation account. Tapeworms, tigers, lion, mosquitoes, and all crocodiles all were strict vegetarians, as they were created by god the bible says. Scıence has debunked that.

The bible says god creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day.  And how could there be "the evening and  the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?  The Genesis creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before the sun (whose magnetic force keeps the earth and other planets in orbit) and the stars stars,. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. By the way there is no mention of the other planets in our solar system because the writers of the genesıs creation story do not even know that there are other planets ın our solar system.

u Cannot prove that God does not interact with humanity . . . . I believe I addressed this in the OP.
u also cannot prove that miracles are fake . . . . .  How do u explain personal circumstances evidenced by numerous others.
And u seem not to understand the very essence of prayer or the recipient before u can assert that prayers are not answered. . . . .there are rules involved, its as simple as that.

According to the proponets of god they say that god interacts with humans. There should be some evidence at least to show for it. But there is NON at all. What are the personal experiences experienced by others? If god exist and he perfroms miracles why are they always hidden and questionable? Why can't god perform very clear mıracles like healing amputees and making their amputated limbs grow back? Why are miracles things that will always happen anyway? As for prayers all you need to do is believe there are NO rules.

u have stated no fact. . . . I will regard them as mere opinions. . . . .u are entitled to ur opinion.
can u attempt to explain further. This statement on its own makes little or no meaning.

I have stated a lot of facts. Jesus said in the bible that "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
If christianity is true then christians should be doing all the things that jesus promised them. The bible says that jesus walked on water, healed the sick, raised the dead and did a lot of wonders and promısed those that believe ın him that they wıll do more than he did ıf only they believe ın hım. No other condıtıon was given all you need to do is belıeve and you will be able to perform all the magic the bıble said jesus performed. There ıs no evıdence to show that christians are able to do that. No christian has ever turned water into  wine. No christian has ever healed an amputee or walked on water. 

can u attempt to explain further. This statement on its own makes little or no meaning.

What I said makes a lot meanıng on its own. The existence of evil(natural evil), and it was obvious that there isn't a God who cared.

This might make perfect sense within the atheist community but makes no sense within the intellectual community.

by the above u are simply trying to define the God concept and personality into ur preconceived mode of communication. . . . This is unacceptable. cos u could have also chosen not to reply to this thread, and u could also have chosen not to reply in English. The ultimate choice of communication and mode of communication was urs as a respondent and I think it is logically safe to state that such should also be left with God.

Who are the members of the intellectual community? You and your fellow friends that believe that stars fight along side humans because people that lived thosands of years ago said so? I am sorry to say but you are not some one that I consider and intellectual. You have no evidence of any god telling you anythıng all you have are the words of ancient men who told you what they inmagined and fantasized about and ascribed it to their god and you accepted it without questionıng it and hoping that it is true.

U also mentioned perfection . . .  , but sincerely I dont think u know the meaning of perfection . . . .please prove me wrong. . . .what is perfection?

I don't know what perfection ıs you go ahead and tell me.

No one asked why u are not a christian. . .  . .its all about why u are an atheist. u cannot lay the responsibilities of ur failure on the footstep of the other person.

About archaeological and historical evidences,
There are evidences abound that establishes the birth of Jesus, the flood of Noah and several other biblical stories, just like there are several other evidences that suggest contrary. It is up to each individual to deduce as appropriate and objectively as possible. So far, there is NO compelling evidence to suggest that Jesus is a fictional person.

What are the evıdences abound that establish the bırth of Jesus? According to the gospel of Matthew jesus was born during the reing of kıng Herod  but accordıng to the gospel of luke jesus was born when Quirinius was governor of syria. According to history Herod died 10 years before Quirinius became governor of syria. The Gospel of Luke claims (2.1-2) that Jesus was born during a census that we know from the historian Josephus took place after Herod the Great died, and after his successor, Archelaus, was deposed. But Matthew claims (2.1-3) that Jesus was born when Herod the Great was still alive--possibly two years before he died (2:7-16). Other elements of their stories also contradict each other. Since Josephus precisely dates the census to 6 A.D. and Herod's death to 4 B.C., and the sequence is indisputable, Luke and Matthew contradict each other. There are no evıdence that support the Noah's flood but there are SO many evıdence that show it never happened. NO documents out sıde the gospels to support any of their assertions and the gospels were written long after the events they narrated.

NO evidence to support the Exodus narratıve according to the bible. Egyptian records do not support any of the bible narratives. No archaeological evidence for ıt. More than a century of archaeological research has discovered nothing which could support the narrative elements of the book of Exodus.

U honestly dont have a point here.

u as toneyb are subject to several interpretations, misinterpretations, conceptions and misconceptions by several people from every nook and carny of this world. (I am assuming u are a notable person). It is therefore up to me to find out who u really are, what u believe in?, what u want? what u like and dislike? what u are up to? et all . . . .I believe that it is very unintelligent on my part to either discredit or disbelieve ur existence based on the misconception of Huxley, Pilgrim, Pastor AIO, olobowale et all about u. It is my personal and individual responsibility to find out who toneyb really is.

 
If i noticed that people are finding it hard to know who I really am I will do what ever ıs in my power to make sure that they know me, talk-less of an a supposedly all powerful being that loves people and wants them to really get to know him. If there is a god he wıll not sit back and watch people fightıng and struggling to know his basic nature. He will reveal hımself in a  very clear way so that all humanıty to get to know him.

can u explain further?

There is no discernible difference between believing in god and having an imaginary friend. People generally rely on facts and evidence in every human endeavour except when it comes to god because the god hypothesis relies and depends only on fear.

This argument holds no water . . . .when juxtaposed with the personal relationship and revelations of everyday common christians like me about God. I will assume that this is just a personal opinion and not a fact.

What exactly does god 'reveal' to you and how does that apply to your life and makes it dıfferent from mine? What exactly does god tell you in such 'revalations'.

There is also no evidence to suggest that there is NO life after death. wouldnt it be better, going to the afterlife prepared?

After life prepared? Where is your evidence to show that there is an afterlife in the first place?

When people come and quote the Bible like it is divine authority, it is just a sign that they are grossly misinformed. The Biblical Jesus, as interpreted by the church (Son of God, Last Supper, rose from the dead and appeared etc) , is not the real deal. I don't know if God exists or not, but I know Jesus ain't comin back like people think he is.

toneyb:

How are these sımple statements? I said that there is no physical proof for god's existence. Religion relies mainly on guilt, fear [/b]and outlandish and completely [b]unverifiable promises that have no evidence to gain obedience. This is a very clear stament.

This are baseless assertions. how can u state that a promise is unverifiable when u are not the beneficiary and u dont subscribe to the promiser? This is very unintelligent.
If fear is ur interpretation of christianity, then fine.

I don't have to open a new thread to do that, The universe as we now know(Thanks to science) it is contınually expanding and new stars are being created and formed. The bible says god finished creating the heavens and the earth(universe) and rested after the 6th day. science(astronomy) has shown that the universe as we now know it is still creating new stars. The bible says that god created two lights. The sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night but Science has shown that the moon is not light. The sun is light but the moon is not light. The moon only reflects light from the sun just as the earth does when viewed from the moon. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? All animals were originally created as herbivores according to genesis creation account. Tapeworms, tigers, lion, mosquitoes, and all crocodiles all were strict vegetarians, as they were created by god the bible says. Scıence has debunked that.

The bible says god creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day.  And how could there be "the evening and  the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them?  The Genesis creation account conflicts with the order of events that are known to science. In Genesis, the earth is created before the sun (whose magnetic force keeps the earth and other planets in orbit) and the stars stars,. The order of events known from science is just the opposite. By the way there is no mention of the other planets in our solar system because the writers of the genesıs creation story do not even know that there are other planets ın our solar system.

This is shameless, disgraceful, unintelligent and ridiculous.
I believe I already addressed all of this with huxley. Go to ur dictionary and define LIGHT. Rather let me do it for u.

Here is a dictionary definition of light. cuddled from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/light
18. spiritual illumination or awareness; enlightenment.

This definition is an acknowledgement of a spiritual light that is not accessible by human organs. This is the light God created in the very beginning.
The stars, moon and sun are later creations. Just like the bible did not mention the creation of the other planets and the heavens, it is also silent on the continuous re-creation of stars. . . . .this does not rule out the work of GOD.

I knew u were going to come up with something stupid, that was why I asked u to open a new thread.

According to the proponets of god they say that god interacts with humans. There should be some evidence at least to show for it. But there is NON at all. What are the personal experiences experienced by others? If god exist and he perfroms miracles why are they always hidden and questionable? Why can't god perform very clear mıracles like healing amputees and making their amputated limbs grow back? Why are miracles things that will always happen anyway? As for prayers all you need to do is believe there are NO rules.

Again pointless.

U cannot refute claims of miracles all over the world. u can only choose to disbelieve.
I have experienced numerous miracles, this does not make my account of a miracle believable to a third party. . . .believing/disbelieving is simply a CHOICE. That u disbelieve does not discredit the authenticity of my miracle.

I have stated a lot of facts. Jesus said in the bible that "Truly, truly, I say to you, he who believes in me will also do the works that I do; and greater works than these will he do, because I go to the Father. Whatever you ask in my name, I will do it, that the Father may be glorified in the Son; if you ask anything in my name, I will do it.
If christianity is true then christians should be doing all the things that jesus promised them. The bible says that jesus walked on water, healed the sick, raised the dead and did a lot of wonders and promısed those that believe ın him that they wıll do more than he did ıf only they believe ın hım. No other condıtıon was given all you need to do is belıeve and you will be able to perform all the magic the bıble said jesus performed. There ıs no evıdence to show that christians are able to do that. No christian has ever turned water into  wine. No christian has ever healed an amputee or walked on water. 

This is really RIDICULOUS.

The major significance of the physical manifestation of God in human form as Jesus was His works. Healing all forms of diseases and raising the dead. This same works are being replicated, which is one of the most prominent ontological assertions of Jesus. For u to sit behind a computer and ignorantly claim that there are no miraculous works amongst the christian community sparks foolishness and ignorance in my opinion.

I have prayed for the sick who have recovered, so also have there been numerous cases. It is ur choice to either believe this accounts or not.
Just use the google search to find christian miracles all over the world.

I am disappointed at ur half-baked assertions.

What I said makes a lot meanıng on its own. The existence of evil(natural evil), and it was obvious that there isn't a God who cared.

I asked for clarification, cos contextually it is meaningless.

By ur statement. . . .u acknowledge that there is evil . . . . whats the opposite of evil? whats the source of this opposite? whats the source of this natural evil?
u also acknowledged that there is a GOD, unlike ur previous atheistic postulations  . . . .  .ur only reservation was that u believe He does not care.
I have established repeatedly that it is very very very very very very very UNINTELLIGENT to attempt to put a "nihilant" being (GOD) into the container of ur poorly preconceived opinion. make up ur mind, is it that there is no God, or that He does not care?

Who are the members of the intellectual community? You and your fellow friends that believe that stars fight along side humans because people that lived thosands of years ago said so? I am sorry to say but you are not some one that I consider and intellectual. You have no evidence of any god telling you anythıng all you have are the words of ancient men who told you what they inmagined and fantasized about and ascribed it to their god and you accepted it without questionıng it and hoping that it is true.

This is hillarious  this is the second time u are lying on me about this stars fighting stuff. lying is not allowed, even in atheism.

On the contrary, would u consider people who believe that the world and everything it contains could not have been made by an uncreated, unknown, unprovable, and contestable God but could have been made by an uncreated, unknown, unprovable and contestable BIG BANG members of the intellectual community?

I wouldnt, cos they are as ignorant as a baby.

I don't know what perfection ıs you go ahead and tell me.

Dont be lazy. just define perfection and I will gladly REVEAL ur ignorance.

What are the evıdences abound that establish the bırth of Jesus? According to the gospel of Matthew jesus was born during the reing of kıng Herod  but accordıng to the gospel of luke jesus was born when Quirinius was governor of syria. According to history Herod died 10 years before Quirinius became governor of syria. The Gospel of Luke claims (2.1-2) that Jesus was born during a census that we know from the historian Josephus took place after Herod the Great died, and after his successor, Archelaus, was deposed. But Matthew claims (2.1-3) that Jesus was born when Herod the Great was still alive--possibly two years before he died (2:7-16). Other elements of their stories also contradict each other. Since Josephus precisely dates the census to 6 A.D. and Herod's death to 4 B.C., and the sequence is indisputable, Luke and Matthew contradict each other. There are no evıdence that support the Noah's flood but there are SO many evıdence that show it never happened. NO documents out sıde the gospels to support any of their assertions and the gospels were written long after the events they narrated.

NO evidence to support the Exodus narratıve according to the bible. Egyptian records do not support any of the bible narratives. No archaeological evidence for ıt. More than a century of archaeological research has discovered nothing which could support the narrative elements of the book of Exodus.

Dishonesty is not allowed.

There are numerous evidences that support both line of the divide, just choose which of them u subscribe to.
 

If i noticed that people are finding it hard to know who I really am I will do what ever ıs in my power to make sure that they know me, talk-less of an a supposedly all powerful being that loves people and wants them to really get to know him. If there is a god he wıll not sit back and watch people fightıng and struggling to know his basic nature. He will reveal hımself in a  very clear way so that all humanıty to get to know him.

Again, this is not intelligent.

ur decision to reveal urself was at ur own discretion. why do u think that God should not use His own discretion in revealing Himself to those He chooses to?

There is no discernible difference between believing in god and having an imaginary friend. People generally rely on facts and evidence in every human endeavour except when it comes to god because the god hypothesis relies and depends only on fear.

This is an opinion, which though is false and unfortunate, I have no intention of refuting.

What exactly does god 'reveal' to you and how does that apply to your life and makes it dıfferent from mine? What exactly does god tell you in such 'revalations'.

why are u interested in knowing? these revelations are for personal consumption . . . . if they are for public consumption then I might share. . .until then.

After life prepared? Where is your evidence to show that there is an afterlife in the first place?

What is ur evidence to suggest that there is NO afterlife?

Krayola:

When people come and quote the Bible like it is divine authority, it is just a sign that they are grossly misinformed. The Biblical Jesus, as interpreted by the church (Son of God, Last Supper, rose from the dead and appeared etc) , is not the real deal. I don't know if God exists or not, but I know Jesus ain't comin back like people think he is.

why dont u start by stating why EXACTLY u are an atheist?

@post
The reason why yuo are a christian is because that was the religion u were born into. If u were born in Saudi Arabia to muslim parents you,d have been a sunni muslim or Israel to Jews Jewish, India to indian parents Hindu etc. The vast majority of people like you stick to the religion they were brought up into.

Exactly! If he were born to muslim parents he would instead be posting ''Why I Am a Muslim''. . .

manmustwac:

@post
The reason why yuo are a christian is because that was the religion u were born into. If u were born in Saudi Arabia to muslim parents you,d have been a sunni muslim or Israel to Jews Jewish, India to indian parents Hindu etc. The vast majority of people like you stick to the religion they were brought up into.

I believe I addressed this in my OP. where are ur eyez?

Any way, why are thou an atheist?

noetic2:

This are baseless assertions. how can u state that a promise is unverifiable when u are not the beneficiary and u dont subscribe to the promiser? This is very unintelligent.
If fear is ur interpretation of christianity, then fine.

Where is your verification or evidence of any of the allege promises since you believe you are a benefıcary?

This is shameless, disgraceful, unintelligent and ridiculous.
I believe I already addressed all of this with huxley. Go to ur dictionary and define LIGHT. Rather let me do it for u.

Here is a dictionary definition of light. cuddled from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/light
18. spiritual illumination or awareness; enlightenment.

This definition is an acknowledgement of a spiritual light that is not accessible by human organs. This is the light God created in the very beginning.
The stars, moon and sun are later creations. Just like the bible did not mention the creation of the other planets and the heavens, it is also silent on the continuous re-creation of stars. . . . .this does not rule out the work of GOD.

I knew u were going to come up with something stupid, that was why I asked u to open a new thread.

What is indeed shameless and pathetic is the extent you will go to keep yourself living in delusion. What spirıtual light are you talking about here? . Are you saying that the sun and the moon are spiritual lights? I don't even know what to make of the nonsense you have written here. Where did I make mention of the light that the bible said god created in the beginning? . Here is what I said, The bible says that god created two lights. The sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night but Science has shown that the moon is not light. The sun is light but the moon is not light. The moon only reflects light from the sun just as the earth does when viewed from the moon. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? the bible says god creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day. And how could there be "the evening and  the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? The bible did not mention the creation of other planets because the people that wrote the ridiculous creation story did not know that there was a solar system where the magnetic force from the sun keeps other planets in orbit. The writer of the creation myth said the earth was created before the sun to show that they have no knowledge of how the solar system operates. If the writer of the creation myth had any idea of the solar system he would have written that the sun was created before the earth.

Again pointless.

U cannot refute claims of miracles all over the world. u can only choose to disbelieve.
I have experienced numerous miracles, this does not make my account of a miracle believable to a third party. . . .believing/disbelieving is simply a CHOICE. That u disbelieve does not discredit the authenticity of my miracle.

What are the ''miracles'' that you have experienced?

This is really RIDICULOUS.

The major significance of the physical manifestation of God in human form as Jesus was His works. Healing all forms of diseases and raising the dead. This same works are being replicated, which is one of the most prominent ontological assertions of Jesus. For u to sit behind a computer and ignorantly claim that there are no miraculous works amongst the christian community sparks foolishness and ignorance in my opinion.

Your opinion makes does not count as far as I am concerned. All I want you to do is to show me one case of of the miracle that has been scientifically verified. Again why can't god heal amputees and make their amputated limbs grow back if miracles are real. All I want is a christian that will raise a person that will raise a person that has been medically confirmed dead after 3 days just like the bible said jesus did.

I have prayed for the sick who have recovered, so also have there been numerous cases. It is ur choice to either believe this accounts or not. Just use the google search to find christian miracles all over the world.

. This is a very lame and pathetic attempt at a joke I must say. Use the same google to find out how many people have confessed for lyıng about their miracle claims, so many have been exposed as liars and con men. All I want is one medically verifiabable case of any ''healing''. Theist are great consumers of modern medicine and often call their treatments miracles even when the causes of their cures are completely explained by the application of medical science. If there ıs any such thing as miracle healing christians will not go to hospitals they will stay at home and pray to their god whom they believe can do all things to heal them. If prayers work christians won2t need medicine.

James 5:14-15 : "Is any among you sick?  Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him."

We know this teaching to be a load of rubbish because if it were real, there will be no christian visiting any hospital. Yet Christians spend billions anually buyıng man made drugs instead of abidıng by the words of their god whıch says that they should go to the church elders. So many have tried what was written in the bible and ended up dead.

I asked for clarification, cos contextually it is meaningless.

By ur statement. . . .u acknowledge that there is evil . . . . whats the opposite of evil? whats the source of this opposite? whats the source of this natural evil?
u also acknowledged that there is a GOD, unlike ur previous atheistic postulations  . . . .  .ur only reservation was that u believe He does not care.
I have established repeatedly that it is very very very very very very very UNINTELLIGENT to attempt to put a "nihilant" being (GOD) into the container of ur poorly preconceived opinion. make up ur mind, is it that there is no God, or that He does not care?

The problem of evil is evidence that there is no god. The problem of evil refutes the christian hypothesis that there is a god that cares. If the christian god exist then there will be evidence to show that he protects christian who believe they are in a loving relatinship with their god more than non christians but there ıs NO such evidence. christian and non christians all suffer the same faith harm affects us all at the same level.

This is hillarious  this is the second time u are lying on me about this stars fighting stuff. lying is not allowed, even in atheism.

On the contrary, would u consider people who believe that the world and everything it contains could not have been made by an uncreated, unknown, unprovable, and contestable God but could have been made by an uncreated, unknown, unprovable and contestable BIG BANG members of the intellectual community?

Do you believe what the bible says about stars fighting wars along side humans or not? What is this nonsense you are writıng here? Uncreated, unknown. unprovable and contestable god . We are not talking about the big bang. Pathetic the extent to which you go or the ridiculous qualities that you ascribe to your god.   .

I wouldnt, cos they are as ignorant as a baby.

And you more ignorant than a baby.

Dont be lazy. just define perfection and[b] I will gladly REVEAL ur ignorance.[/b]

. You flater yourself too much. You are not some one that I consider to be knowlegeble at all.

Dishonesty is not allowed.

There are numerous evidences that support both line of the divide, just choose which of them u subscribe to.

What is this nonsense.   .

Again, this is not intelligent.

ur decision to reveal urself was at ur own discretion. why do u think that God should not use His own discretion in revealing Himself to those He chooses to?

This same god loves humanity and wants them to get to know him. He even came and died for all humanity 2000 years ago in a little village in the middle east according to the story yet people that believe in him are still constantly fighting with each other and do not even know or agree to his basic nature yet he sits and watch does he claims he loves and wants them to know him fight over his basic nature.   . this is only possible for a god that does not exist and is imaginary. Which is what the biblegod is.

This is an opinion, which though is false and unfortunate, I have no intention of refuting.

It is not that you have no intention of refuting it, It's just that you can't.

why are u interested in knowing? these revelations are for personal consumption . . . . if they are for public consumption then I might share. . .until then.

.

What is ur evidence to suggest that there is NO afterlife?

You are the one that was talking about an afterlife. You first of all have to provide evidence for it. Where is your evidence for it, No body has been able to prove that human consiousness survives bodily death.

olabowale:

Don't laugh too hard, yet, until you think for a critical moment by asking yourself and answering the following qusetions:

From Adam to Jesus; is there a prophet who has no instructions to worship The Creator?
Was Jesus a Prophet?
Was Jesus exempted from worshipping his Creator, while Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, etc were required to worship the Creator?
If Jesus worshipped his Creator, then in what religion methodology did he follow?
Was that methodology different from that of Adam, Noah, Ibrahim to name just a few?
Was Jesus the Creator of heavens and earth, including the Angel Gabreil who was sent to assist him in time of difficulties?
Was Jesus the Creator of Adam, etc?
Wouldn't it foolish, if Jesus was and then in the Bible narration of creation of man, we read that he would be telling himself what he was about to do?
If Jesus worshipped his Creator as we read that the did, even prayed to him, alone and thought his companions how to worship the Creator, did he worship as the Jews do today, by bopping their face toward the "wailing wall?"
Is the religion of Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, Moses, even Jesus that they worshipped their Creator by still consistently available to us today?
What is the name of that religion?
Is God the Creator not consistent in His way and reliably unchanging God?
Is the religion Judaism?
Is there anything called Jewish people in the time of Moses, since they are called Israelites or Children of Israel?
Was Jew or Judaism ever in existence until the Children of Israel nations were broken down to Israel and Judea?
Is the religion Christianity?
Was Christianity even a religion until after Jesus was "lifted up" by his Creator?
Were Adam, Noah, Ibrahim, etc of the Jewish religion or was it the Christian religion?

I will leave Islam out of it for now. But I will remind everyone that Islam simply means "Submission to the Will of the Creatoor, in worship, etc". Ibrahim's statement in Surah An Am (Chapter 6, one of the last 5 verses) comes to mind.

Instructions left by Jesus, you asked?
Did he say that he should be worshipped, along with his Creator?
Did he say that people should pray to his Mother as the Catholics do?
Did he say that he is God, which will tell us that there are more than 1 gods?
Did he say that he was the Creator, too, which means that there are more than 1 Creator?

There is the instruction, according to the Bible that Jesus said: I am not here to abolish but to fulfill the Laws and the prophets. And any who does or suggest anyone to do so, is the least in heaven.

What is the actual meaning of that statement of Jesus, except it is an instruction? Please, noetic no chaotic explanation or interpretation. We can read english. It is simple and direct instruction.

Did you, the Christian body ever follow this instruction, ever, I said?
Did you not take the statement of Paul and company to overcome that of Jesus, whereby you destroyed the laws and the prophets instead of fulfilling them?

Now when you finish answering these sets of questions, you can laugh hard at yourself, if you still remain a christian.

sheik ibn olabs, you never fail to disappoint do you?

noetic2:

This are baseless assertions. how can u state that a promise is unverifiable when u are not the beneficiary and u dont subscribe to the promiser? This is very unintelligent.
If fear is ur interpretation of christianity, then fine.

This is shameless, disgraceful, unintelligent and ridiculous.
I believe I already addressed all of this with huxley. Go to ur dictionary and define LIGHT. Rather let me do it for u.

Here is a dictionary definition of light. cuddled from: http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/light
18. spiritual illumination or awareness; enlightenment.

This definition is an acknowledgement of a spiritual light that is not accessible by human organs. This is the light God created in the very beginning.
The stars, moon and sun are later creations. Just like the bible did not mention the creation of the other planets and the heavens, it is also silent on the continuous re-creation of stars. . . . .this does not rule out the work of GOD.

I knew u were going to come up with something stupid, that was why I asked u to open a new thread.

This is the most deluded stuff I have heard all through the weekend. Is the highlighted part in your bible or is it part of the word play and gimmick you guys play all the time? Where in the bible does it say that god created a spiritual light in the beginning?

Gen 1:1  In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth.
Gen 1:2 And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4 And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5 And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And the evening and the morning were the first day.

What spiritual light that can not be accessed by human organs are you talkıng about? Is it day or night? thats what the bible talks about unless if you mean the day and night the bible talks about are spiritual. You are a very ridiculous and pathetic apologist. You should be ashamed of yourself.

bindex:

This is the most deluded stuff I have heard all through the weekend. Is the highlighted part in your bible or is it part of the word play and gimmick you guys play all the time? Where in the bible does it say that god created a spiritual light in the beginning?

What spiritual light that can not be accessed by human organs are you talkıng about? Is it day or night? thats what the bible talks about unless if you mean the day and night the bible talks about are spiritual. You are a very ridiculous and pathetic apologist. You should be ashamed of yourself.

I was shocked when I saw what he wrote about the spiritual light. . Very ridiculous and pathetic apologist indeed

toneyb:

Where is your verification or evidence of any of the allege promises since you believe you are a benefıcary?

What is indeed shameless and pathetic is the extent you will go to keep yourself living in delusion. What spirıtual light are you talking about here? . Are you saying that the sun and the moon are spiritual lights? I don't even know what to make of the nonsense you have written here. Where did I make mention of the light that the bible said god created in the beginning? . Here is what I said, The bible says that god created two lights. The sun to rule over the day and the moon to rule over the night but Science has shown that the moon is not light. The sun is light but the moon is not light. The moon only reflects light from the sun just as the earth does when viewed from the moon. And why, if God made the moon to "rule the night", does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky? the bible says god creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day. And how could there be "the evening and  the morning" on the first day if there was no sun to mark them? The bible did not mention the creation of other planets because the people that wrote the ridiculous creation story did not know that there was a solar system where the magnetic force from the sun keeps other planets in orbit. The writer of the creation myth said the earth was created before the sun to show that they have no knowledge of how the solar system operates. If the writer of the creation myth had any idea of the solar system he would have written that the sun was created before the earth.

Do u actually THINK before u write? is it safe to judge u by the quality of this post?

u questioned the rationale for the existence of light before the creation of the moon and sun. do u think at all? was this not what u said?
The bible says god creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day.

u questioned the rationale of light objects been created after the light. . . .and I simply stated explicit light definition that establishes that there is a LIGHT that cannot be perceived by human senses and also not subject to light objects (sun and moon), which was what was initially created when God said Let there be light. The sun and the moon came afterwards.

This is raw ignorance.

What are the ''miracles'' that you have experienced?

Your opinion makes does not count as far as I am concerned. All I want you to do is to show me one case of of the miracle that has been scientifically verified. Again why can't god heal amputees and make their amputated limbs grow back if miracles are real. All I want is a christian that will raise a person that will raise a person that has been medically confirmed dead after 3 days just like the bible said jesus did.

. This is a very lame and pathetic attempt at a joke I must say. Use the same google to find out how many people have confessed for lyıng about their miracle claims, so many have been exposed as liars and con men. All I want is one medically verifiabable case of any ''healing''. Theist are great consumers of modern medicine and often call their treatments miracles even when the causes of their cures are completely explained by the application of medical science. If there ıs any such thing as miracle healing christians will not go to hospitals they will stay at home and pray to their god whom they believe can do all things to heal them. If prayers work christians won2t need medicine.

James 5:14-15 : "Is any among you sick?  Let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: and the prayer of faith shall save him that is sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, it shall be forgiven him."

We know this teaching to be a load of rubbish because if it were real, there will be no christian visiting any hospital. Yet Christians spend billions anually buyıng man made drugs instead of abidıng by the words of their god whıch says that they should go to the church elders. So many have tried what was written in the bible and ended up dead.

The problem of evil is evidence that there is no god. The problem of evil refutes the christian hypothesis that there is a god that cares. If the christian god exist then there will be evidence to show that he protects christian who believe they are in a loving relatinship with their god more than non christians but there ıs NO such evidence. christian and non christians all suffer the same faith harm affects us all at the same level.

Do you believe what the bible says about stars fighting wars along side humans or not? What is this nonsense you are writıng here? Uncreated, unknown. unprovable and contestable god . We are not talking about the big bang. Pathetic the extent to which you go or the ridiculous qualities that you ascribe to your god.   .

And you more ignorant than a baby.

. You flater yourself too much. You are not some one that I consider to be knowlegeble at all.


What is this nonsense.   .

This same god loves humanity and wants them to get to know him. He even came and died for all humanity 2000 years ago in a little village in the middle east according to the story yet people that believe in him are still constantly fighting with each other and do not even know or agree to his basic nature yet he sits and watch does he claims he loves and wants them to know him fight over his basic nature.   . this is only possible for a god that does not exist and is imaginary. Which is what the biblegod is.

It is not that you have no intention of refuting it, It's just that you can't.

.

You are the one that was talking about an afterlife. You first of all have to provide evidence for it. Where is your evidence for it, No body has been able to prove that human consiousness survives bodily death.

I cant make a meaning out of all this.

Just define perfection if u can.

noetic2:

Do u actually THINK before u write? is it safe to judge u by the quality of this post?

u questioned the raionale for the existence of light before the creation of the moon and sun. do u have a brain at all? was this not what u said?
The bible says god creates light and separates light from darkness, and day from night, on the first day. Yet he didn't make the light producing objects (the sun and the stars) until the fourth day.

[b]u questioned the rationale of light objects been created after the light. . . .and I simply stated explicit light definition that establishes that there is a LIGHT that cannot be perceived by human senses [/b]and also not subject to light objects (sun and moon), which was what was initially created when God said Let there be light. The sun and the moon came afterwards.

U sound so IGNORANT.

I can see that you have no feet to stand on. You said I should show you how science has debunked the creation myth in genesis which I did. Now you are coming up with these? Which light is it that can not be percieved by human senses? . Are you completely dumb? Even the bible that you are tryıng to defend does not agree wıth your assertions because the bible says NO such thing, instead the bible says that the biblegod created light and called it day and darkness which he called night. Are day and night spritual too? You are really a pathetic apologist.

Gen 1:3    And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.
Gen 1:4    And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.
Gen 1:5    And God called the light Day, and the darkness he called Night. And there was evening and there was morning the first day

.

How was there ''evening and morning'' to mark the day and the night without the sun?  . Or are the evening and morning spritual too?

And as for the universe still constantly creating stars that also goes against your creation myth. According to your bible god finished creating the heavens and the earth(universe) and rested after the 6th day. but science has shown that the new stars are being formed or created constantly. According to your creation myth the biblegod created the moon as light just lıke the sun but science has shown that the moon is not light, it only reflects light from the sun just as the earth does when viewed from the moon. if the biblegod  made the moon to "rule the night" as the bible puts it, why does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

Gen2:1 Thus the heavens and the earth were completed in all their vast array.
Gen 2:2 By the seventh day God had finished the work he had been doing; so on the seventh day he rested  from all his work.
Gen 2:3 And God blessed the seventh day and made it holy, because on it he rested[b] from all the work of creating that he had done.[/b]
Gen 2:4  This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created. When the Lord God made the earth and the heavens

According to your creation myth the bible god FINISHED creating the universe on the 6th day and rested. Science has shown that new stars are still constantly being created in the universe.

I cant make a meaning out of all this.

Just define perfection if u can.

You are a pathetic apologist.

toneyb:

I can see that you have no feet to stand on. You said I should show you how science has debunked the creation myth in genesis which I did. Now you are coming up with these? Which light is it that can not be percieved by human senses? . Are you completely dumb? Even the bible that you are tryıng to defend does not agree wıth your assertions because the bible says NO such thing, instead the bible says that the biblegod created light and called it day and darkness which he called night. Are day and night spritual too? You are really a pathetic apologist.
.

How was there ''evening and morning'' to mark the day and the night without the sun?  . Or are the evening and morning spritual too?

And as for the universe still constantly creating stars that also goes against your creation myth. According to your bible god finished creating the heavens and the earth(universe) and rested after the 6th day. but science has shown that the new stars are being formed or created constantly. According to your creation myth the biblegod created the moon as light just lıke the sun but science has shown that the moon is not light, it only reflects light from the sun just as the earth does when viewed from the moon. if the biblegod  made the moon to "rule the night" as the bible puts it, why does it spend half of its time moving through the daytime sky?

According to your creation myth the bible god FINISHED creating the universe on the 6th day and rested. Science has shown that new stars are still constantly being created in the universe.


You are a pathetic apologist.

This is the height of ridicule.

You FOOLISHLY asked where light came from since the moon and sun where not created until the fourth day. I believe that ur question has been answered.

noetic2:

This is the height of ridicule.

You FOOLISHLY asked where light came from since the moon and sun where not created until the fourth day. I believe that ur question has been answered.

Is that what you call an answer The bible does not even agree with your "answer".

toneyb:

Is that what you call an answer The bible does not even agree with your "answer".

I would honestly like u to emphasise on this statement. How does the bible disagree with my position?