Abagworo:

Hahahahaha.dis thread dey laf me well well.igbos and ijaws are people living under defeat,deceit and balkanization by the nigerian state under a grand plan by british colonialists.ijaws were made to believe igbos is their problem and vice-versa.i've tried my best to expose this,yet igbos and ijaws keep messing up.i know the people who achieve orgasm when igbos and ijaws clash.

I have to agree with you here

Ibime:

Naijaking, your response is typical. Thats why I never engage in debate with you cos you are quick to blow your top.   Even after I showed you that Saro-Wiwa was the only Ogoni leader who supported Nigeria, you still went about hyperventialating about Ogoni betrayal. That tells me that you are not to be reasoned with. Perhaps the hatred helps you get through the day.  

My allegations stand. You can refute them if you wish, but there is no need to act surprised at the so-called 'betrayal' when there is enough precedent to show you that Ijaws were not happy with Ndigbos positions and voted roundly against the NCNC long before the war started. Whilst Naijaking spends all his energy hammering on about Ijaw betrayal and alienating his Niger-Delta brothers, others are looking for ways to bring Southern Nigeria together to fight the scourge of Northern Imperialism.
Now, look at the points you raised:

(1.) Really? What is every family in Igboland doing in Ijawland? Mass immigration always brings conflict between host communities and immigrants.

(2.) Saro-Wiwa was education commissioner, not land and works commisioner. Inform yourself before applying your usual scattergun approach.

(3.) I will not descend into tribalism with you.

The highlighted part was a generalization meant to show that you blame Igbos for everything--- why act like you don't understand it
I didn't say every family in Igboland was in Ijaw land(though where Igboland ends and ijawland begins is a topic for another day), I said there is no Igbo family that does not suffer as a result of greed by Ijaw people----- at least you should have the decency to quote me right.

Ken Saro Wiwa not only described how he 'slipped out' of Biafra and joined Nigeria, but it is on record that he got 3 abandoned properties--- disprove that or stop defending him. Also defend the fact that he, like many others of time benefitted immensely from eastern Nigeria.

The relationship of minority vs. majority forms the basis of democracy, at any time t, one group must always the majority and another the minority. Democracy only survives when the will of the majority is carried out, and the right of the minority protected. Democracy never survives by infinitestimal separation of the minority towards unity. A population regarded as minority today, could and have been shown to assume majority status in the future, and vis-versa for the majority.

If you think the eastern Nigerian minorities got a raw deal from the majority(which might have been unfair), have you bothered to see how the minorities of other regions were doing? ,eg in the middle belt?

Remember the alliance of Niger Delta Congress and Northern People's Congress, do you remember how badly they faired in the elections. Yes the, eastern minorities loved the northerners, just as the northern minorities loved the easterners. So, you had an alliance between NCNC and people in the middle belt too. Despite all these political alliances, no major middle belt-northern politician/elite/scholar turned against his own region to fight the easterners. Infact, it was the middle belters, like Gowon who championed the northern cause. I have gone to all this lenght to show you that no matter whatever might have been the problem(naturally) in the east, it did not justify joining the enemy to kill your own people(Note, Igbos, Ijaws, Ogonis, Edo, etc were also massacred in the north).

You may not see yourself as a tribalist, but your persistently unilateral perspective doesn't help you make that point.

Abagworo:

Hahahahaha.dis thread dey laf me well well.igbos and ijaws are people living under defeat,deceit and balkanization by the nigerian state under a grand plan by british colonialists.ijaws were made to believe igbos is their problem and vice-versa.i've tried my best to expose this,yet igbos and ijaws keep messing up.i know the people who achieve orgasm when igbos and ijaws clash.

Thank you!

This is why we need to ban any antagonistic bla bla bla and the likes of Naijaking running around the forum all day everyday screaming "death to traitors" and digging up old wounds.  


Naijaking describes my ancestors as 'shameless and discredited'. I hope he knows my ancestors are Igbos. I also hope he knows that Abagworos ancestors are Ijaws.

Ibime:

Thank you!

This is why we need to ban any antagonistic bla bla bla and the likes of Naijaking running around the forum all day everyday screaming "death to traitors" and digging up old wounds. 

Naijaking describes my ancestors as 'shameless and discredited'. I hope he knows my ancestors are Igbos. I also hope he knows that Abagworos ancestors are Ijaws.

@Abagoro
Sadly, you're right.

@Ibime
Ironic
How dare you describe an old wound when one eastern Nigerian is still seating and occupying another man's house in the name of abandoned property-------as we speak
The ancestors i was referring to was Ken Saro Wiwa and Adaka Boro, i doubt that they were in any way personally related to you, but if they were, i sadly regret that everything I said about those 2 scum bags were true, if they were not, then I would apologize for any misunderstanding

naijaking1:

@Abagoro
Sadly, you're right.

@Ibime
Ironic
How dare you describe an old wound when one eastern Nigerian is still seating and occupying another man's house in the name of abandoned property-------as we speak
The ancestors i was referring to was Ken Saro Wiwa and Adaka Boro, i doubt that they were in any way personally related to you, but if they were, i sadly regret that everything I said about those 2 scum bags were true, if they were not, then I would apologize for any misunderstanding

E be like say that abandoned property saga in rivers affected your family badly.

ow11:

Noted. So how does your theory fit when it comes to the Andoni/Okrika clash of 1994 or Kalabari/Nembe clash of 1994/1995? These skirmishes were equitably solved and remained in relative peace until this struggle for oil money that was engineered by none other than Odili himself.

If I would lay any blame on the current malaise in the ND on one person, that person would be Odili and his PDP do or die politics.


@Dede1

Can you give me your own anecdote on how the sabotage by Saro Wiwa and Boro made Biafra fall to the Nigerian army? I want to hear your own side of the story.

@Ow11



I have and would continue to state categorically and unequivocally that majority of Ogoni people supported Biafran course as evidenced from testimonies given by several people and participation of Ogoni stalwarts like Dr. I Kogbara, who was Biafran ambassador in London, Dr. G B Leton, chiefs E. Kobani and Badey. There was no abandon property in Bori or Eleme even at the urging of Spiff then governor River State. The city of Bori looks more of Nkwerre or Orlu than Gokana.

As for the Ijo of East (Beyalsa and Rivers states), I say that majority of them were with Nigeria while very few joined the Biafra. There were Ijo stalwarts such chief Frank Opigu (Minister of Land Affairs) and one Major Frank Okilo who commanded the 52 Brigade of “S” Division of Biafran army. However, Ijo (East) people should be held responsible for property and land grab as in abandon property saga in Port Harcourt encouraged by the victorious Nigerian government.

As for Alfred Isaac Adaka Boro, he was an agent of destabilization in eastern region who was coached by the government of Tafawa Balewa and northern region under the leadership of Ahmadu Bello. Western region of Nigeria under Akintola made sure that the use of Adaka Boro to subvert peace and tranquility in eastern region was successful

Those who bit the finger that fed them have always end up in a miserable death.  I do not dwell on the betrayal issues as in the case of Biafra but had maintained that those involved in the Biafran course should not forget the betrayal players. Time will tell.

asha 80:

E be like say that abandoned property saga in rivers affected your family badly.

Yeap

asha 80:

E be like say that abandoned property saga in rivers affected your family badly.

It does not have to affect anyone for anyone to speak out against such disgraceful act.

This is like armed robbers forcefully taking from someone what belongs to him or her.

That is why armed robbers and thieves don't brag in the open and they don't want to be known as armed robbers.

How can a human being occupy a house he may not have had any opportunity in his lifetime to build? How can the children of people like that shamelessly claim that their fathers have houses when in actual fact they stole houses from people that were fighting a war - people that lived with them as friends and brothers. This perhaps is the most shameful act I have seen by a people.

Afam:

It does not have to affect anyone for anyone to speak out against such disgraceful act.

This is like armed robbers forcefully taking from someone what belongs to him or her.

That is why armed robbers and thieves don't brag in the open and they don't want to be known as armed robbers.

How can a human being occupy a house he may not have had any opportunity in his lifetime to build? How can the children of people like that shamelessly claim that their fathers have houses when in actual fact they stole houses from people that were fighting a war - people that lived with them as friends and brothers. This perhaps is the most shameful act I have seen by a people.

Maybe I have been a little bit too vigorous in my debate with these Ken Saro Wiwa worshippers, because it's personal. However, every living Nigeria---Igbo, Ijaw, Ogoni, etc ought to condenm the principles of "Abandoned Property" Unfortunately, I have not seen much of that on this thread.

why wont people speak out against the abandon property issue? are some people denying it? it happened. some people are still feeling the pain 40yrs after it was done. see, whenever there is a war, it takes years, even centuries, to fully heal the wounds, but to belittle the issue of abandon property is insult upon injury.

well, the igbos, of which i am one, and proudly too, have to be live with the realities of nigeria. we lost the war (which i wish we never fought) . everyone who looses a war has to bear the consequences, our fathers lost, therefore we and our children, and our children's children may have to beg for crumbs from the rest of the country, for a few centuries before the wounds of defeat can be fully healed.

thank God i ran away from that country.

Abandoned property in this case is not about losing a war otherwise the Northerners would have been the ones that could have done it not your own neighbors and friends.

Igbos did not lose their homes in the West or the North but to some people in the same Eastern region.

This is one act of betrayal that no one can spin or twist. Very very shameful.

I thank God that the forgotten 4 has not been forgotten, they shouldn't. They have always been on the right side of history from time.
@pres-elect
Even the Jews who lost all their possesions to the Nazis got them back after the WWII ended, and the Nazi, despite everything, never faced an abandoned property situation, so please my brother don't tell me about healing the wounds of war as if betrayal of your brothers has been codified into law.

well, isnt it shameful that the igbos had their stuff returned to them in the north and west, only for fellow easterners to refuse to return the property of the igbos? well, i dont know how much of such justice can be restored for those igbos who lost property in rivers state, but i do know that for the families of those who lost their property, it will never be forgotten and these seeds of animosity will be sown from generation to generation.

for the forgotten four, i believe they must be heard too. their lives are also sacrosanct. they were murdered in cold blood. and their families must be listened to

the axe forgets, but the tree remembers

Thanks to Naijakings constant hammering of the abandoned property issue, I have been forced to do some research. I must readily admit that I did not know that the abandoned property saga was a state-sponsored one, for I thought it was just a case of neighbours occupying abandoned property. Hence I must denounce Rivers States enactment of the abandoned property act as being akin to a Hitler-esque annexation of Jewish property. It is vital for the normalisation of Igbo-Ijaw-Ikwerre relations that the victims of this act are compensated. However, I doubt this will happen as victims are rarely recompensed in the jungle called Nigeria with all its competing idiosyncrasies. I dare to suggest that a compensation scheme will go a long way toward dousing the flames of Ndigbo antagonism over ‘betrayal’ in the civil war. This simple act of recompense would perhaps be a political masterstroke on the part of the Rivers State minorities to gain the alliance of Ndigbo and usher in a new spirit of forgiveness.

However, I must stress that the victims of this shameful law are not victims of greed per se, but victims of a high-stakes political game over the soul of Port-Harcourt. In a city which transverses the boundary between Okrika and Obio-Akpor at present day Isaac Boro park, conservative elements of Ndigbo have long sought to write Okrika out of the history of Port-Harcourt by claiming PH as an ‘Igbo City’ with no reference to the diverse composition of the city. This is evidenced in several writings. Hence, I posit that the victims of the shameful abandoned property act are victims of a fightback against Igbo dominance in a city where the non-indigenous Igbos outnumbered the ethnic indigenes at the outbreak of the civil war. The minorities of Rivers State had sought to reverse the recent influx of Ndigbo into the city in response to the old agage that: an argument is usually won by force of numbers.

Now, I hope this thread will not degenerate into another endless argument over PH cos I know that Dede1 is ready to pounce.    I am just trying to provide some political context, not excusing the abandoned property act which I have roundly condemned, nor trying to start any argument over PH.

@Ibime
I commend you for doing a little research, however, there's room for you to do more. I wish many other contributors(Sapeleguy, Ow11, and other persons speaking about unity among the southerners) will take a minute to do an honest research too.

@Ibime,

Respects from me. It takes courage and boldness for one to speak the truth not just know the truth.

At least I believe you now know why a lot of Igbos feel betrayed by their own friends, neighbors and brothers in the former Eastern region.

All the best.

The issue of abandoned property is known by the occupants of the houses. My position was on why every thread on RV issues would end up being an abandoned house issue like this one. What started as a thread discussing the role of Saro Wiwa in the murder of 4 Ogoni people and the compensation by Shell has degenerated to happenings during and in the aftermath of the civil war.

Ibime, Did the RVSG promise people houses if they supported Nigeria or the sharing of people's houses begin at the sound of the last gunshot? If it is the former, then all owners of the abandoned properties should come together and take the RVSG to court. It may take years but they could still get some form of compensation afterall, it has been almost 40 years since this happened.

Also this can be said to be betrayal if it is the former but theft it is the latter! So which is it?

Ibi

You are one misguided son of you know what. I know that someone who had Ijo blood could be a dirty liar and conniving dolt but never knew some of them could be dastardly idiotic. How could you pull out falsehood in a bid to arduously attack the efforts the Ndigbo made in bringing along their neighbors?

May I ask you what election where you referring in one of naïve-infected posts? I recall that during the 1962 regional election and 1964 federal election, NCNC swept the polls in the Brass and Rivers Provinces. Out of nine contested seats, only Milford Okilo won a seat to federal house from the NDC (Niger Delta Congress) platform. All other seats were won by NCNC candidates mainly the indigenes of the Provinces consisting Ijo, Ogoni and Igbo.

If there was no Igbo blood in a jackass such as you, I would have unloaded well tailored curse on your forbearers. It is no gain-saying that you have never been involved with Inter-high school soccer fight. And there is no doubt that you are a retarded novice on issues involving military parlance.

In one of your jaw-dropping posts, you suddenly found your sorry ass in a world of ecstasy as you dialed into your despicable reservoir of falsehood about Adaka Boro military exploits. The less than battalion strength unit that Adaka Boro commanded could not even hold onto a yard of land captured by the entire 3MCDO of the Nigerian army talk less of gaining an inch. I urge you to embark on a research about the disbanded battalion Adaka Boro commanded and you will found the Rivers (Ijo) boys were not even fit for duty.

Lastly, Igwe Ocha Mbara Ama (Igwe ocha mbaram) is undisputable an Igbo land. There is no doubt about such deduction as the traditional landmarks within and around the Garden City point to the fact that the city is indeed an Igbo land. The shameful act of declaring properties of Ndigbo in Port Harcourt as “abandoned property” by the Rivers State government led by an Ijo fool could not change what God had ordained. Even the deities in the city have woken against the perpetrators of such reckless usurpation. However, out of sheer magnanimity, Okirika people should also be mentioned slightly along the line of stakeholders in Garden City.

hehehehehe. . . . . Dede1 never disappoints. . . .  . . . . his posts are always witty and captivating. . .

ow11:

The issue of abandoned property is known by the occupants of the houses. My position was on why every thread on RV issues would end up being an abandoned house issue like this one. What started as a thread discussing the role of Saro Wiwa in the murder of 4 Ogoni people and the compensation by Shell has degenerated to happenings during and in the aftermath of the civil war.

Ibime, Did the RVSG promise people houses if they supported Nigeria or the sharing of people's houses begin at the sound of the last gunshot? If it is the former, then all owners of the abandoned properties should come together and take the RVSG to court. It may take years but they could still get some form of compensation afterall, it has been almost 40 years since this happened.

Also this can be said to be betrayal if it is the former but theft it is the latter! So which is it?

You want to make history by taking people's houses as abandoned properties, but you don't want history to be written to remember such despicable acts-----typical corrupt Nigerian who wants to eat his cake and have it too

naijaking1:

You want to make history by taking people's houses as abandoned properties, but you don't want history to be written to remember such despicable acts-----typical corrupt Nigerian who wants to eat his cake and have it too

I find it amusing to be accused of corruption when I recommended the original home owners take the RVSG to court if it can be proven that they were in charge of the stealing of homes of the owners? OR better still take the current occupants to court. Since you claim to be personally affected, why can't you initiate the move? Sure it wouldn't be difficult to find others. When Idi Amin kicked out the Ugandan-Indians, people took their homes but I saw a documentary two years ago on Al-Jazeera about a child of one the home-owners go back to Uganda to see if she can something back.

Can you comfortably tell me this thread hasn't been diverted from the title to some other unsolved case? This last page has had posts only about the aftermath of the civil war and the forceful occupation of houses owned by ex-Biafrans by people supposedly sponsored by the RVSG.

Some people on this thread have suggested that Ken deserved what he got for his role during the war. This statement has nothing to do if he was innocent of the crime or not. If he was privy to taking peoples homes, then that should be under a title like say ''Ken Saro Wiwa: Not so honourable!''. I believe each case should be judged on its merit, If he is guilty of taking homes, it doesn't automatically mean he is guilty of murder.

I do not think anyone would deny that homes were not taken from people after the civil war.

The last page of this thread is filled with abandoned property issues, because people like you are still here, 40 years after the fact denying, insisting, and obfuscating the fact; and generating arguement.
When you open your mouth about legal action, I know you really don't know what's going on, or you're simply evil. Did you remember Gov. Sam Mbakwe? Well, he made his initial foray into politics, by suing and championing legal action against the River State govt.
Do you really have to compare Igbos in PH with Indians in Uganda

naijaking1:

The last page of this thread is filled with abandoned property issues, because people like you are still here, 40 years after the fact denying, insisting, and obfuscating the fact; and generating arguement.
When you open your mouth about legal action, I know you really don't know what's going on, or you're simply evil. Did you remember Gov. Sam Mbakwe? Well, he made his initial foray into politics, by suing and championing legal action against the River State govt.
Do you really have to compare Igbos in PH with Indians in Uganda

For the last time, no one is denying anything. No one has. You are just talking and thinking someone is denying. Didn't Saro Wiwa's children and friends take Shell to court. Nigeria has changed a bit from the 80s. Elechi Amadi's wife took the NIS to court and just won to remove an obnoxious law from their books.

Even if you do not win the case, at least the desired media attention you will get will certainly ease any fears you have that people are denying that event took place.

Before insisting on news law suits, you might want to know the outcome of Mbakwe's actions.

naijaking1:

Before insisting on news law suits, you might want to know the outcome of Mbakwe's actions.

phbbt!

ow11:

phbbt!

I know you're out of ideas, but it still doesn't change your warped view one bit

Ken Saro-Wiwa deserved what he got from the government of Nigeria. If he got well deserved news media exposure for his pig-headed political shenanigans, he also deserved the retribution from the Nigerian government.

If the action of Shell-BP is meant to compensate the Ken’s family, the families of four Ogoni chiefs and the entire Ogoni people who have suffered the brunt of crude oil exploration, I say kudos to Shell-BP. However, if this action of Shell-BP is predicated on being politically-correct, I suggest that Shell-BP be kicked out of the jungle called Nigeria.

Again, I say unequivocally that Ken Saro-Wiwa was a glorified ingrate that bit the fingers that fed him. He was either a son of cook or food supplier of Government College, Umuahia who was struck blind when Shell-BP paid for his scholarship. He enjoyed the patronages of Shell-BP while as a commissioner in River State, though made possible by Chief E. Kobani whom he killed due to jealousy. He never saw the ills of crude oil exploration in Ogoni until he fell out with certain government that did not appreciate Ken’s antics and immediately called them to order.

He was among the ring leaders who reaped where they did not sow. I say it was a nemesis that caught up with him. Nonetheless, I wish his soul a rest in peace.

Dede1:

Ken Saro-Wiwa deserved what he got from the government of Nigeria. If he got well deserved news media exposure for his pig-headed political shenanigans, he also deserved the retribution from the Nigerian government.

If the action of Shell-BP is meant to compensate the Ken’s family, the families of four Ogoni chiefs and the entire Ogoni people who have suffered the brunt of crude oil exploration, I say kudos to Shell-BP. However, if this action of Shell-BP is predicated on being politically-correct, I suggest that Shell-BP be kicked out of the jungle called Nigeria.

Again, I say unequivocally that Ken Saro-Wiwa was a glorified ingrate that bit the fingers that fed him. He was either a son of cook or food supplier of Government College, Umuahia who was struck blind when Shell-BP paid for his scholarship. He enjoyed the patronages of Shell-BP while as a commissioner in River State, though made possible by Chief E. Kobani whom he killed due to jealousy. He never saw the ills of crude oil exploration in Ogoni until he fell out with certain government that did not appreciate Ken’s antics and immediately called them to order.

He was among the ring leaders who reaped where they did not sow. I say it was a nemesis that caught up with him. Nonetheless, I wish his soul a rest in peace.

I wish the family of the forgotten 4 would hire a good US lawyer to lay claim to the $15 million paid to Ken Saro Wiwa's estate by Shell. The family can't profit from the illegal of their dad.

In all religious teachings: Jews, Christians, Muslims, Igbo native religion, etc: It's always a sin to reap where one did not sow

naijaking1:

I know you're out of ideas, but it still doesn't change your warped view one bit

Nope. It is just hard to get through to you. You just want to talk and talk and pick fights where there is none. Mr Mbakwe was able to get the RVSG to give N23 million  as compensation. This amount may be too small or didn't even get to the original owners of the properties. However, like I said earlier, If you have a problem with the way the entire saga was held and want to do something physical about it, you can go to court.

But on NL, you can open a thread and pour your scorn on the men behind the theft. This does not mean you should bombard every thread on RV state with this issue and not allow anyone talk about something before you divert the thread to abandoned property saga like you have done with this one.

Dede1:

Ken Saro-Wiwa deserved what he got from the government of Nigeria. If he got well deserved news media exposure for his pig-headed political shenanigans, he also deserved the retribution from the Nigerian government.

If the action of Shell-BP is meant to compensate the Ken’s family, the families of four Ogoni chiefs and the entire Ogoni people who have suffered the brunt of crude oil exploration, I say kudos to Shell-BP. However, if this action of Shell-BP is predicated on being politically-correct, I suggest that Shell-BP be kicked out of the jungle called Nigeria.

Again, I say unequivocally that Ken Saro-Wiwa was a glorified ingrate that bit the fingers that fed him. He was either a son of cook or food supplier of Government College, Umuahia who was struck blind when Shell-BP paid for his scholarship. He enjoyed the patronages of Shell-BP while as a commissioner in River State, though made possible by Chief E. Kobani whom he killed due to jealousy. He never saw the ills of crude oil exploration in Ogoni until he fell out with certain government that did not appreciate Ken’s antics and immediately called them to order.

He was among the ring leaders who reaped where they did not sow. I say it was a nemesis that caught up with him. Nonetheless, I wish his soul a rest in peace.

May be we should ask Shell why they decided to pay out rather than allow the case to go on and prove their innocence and Mr Wiwa's guilt in the murder of the Ogoni 4?

I must defer to the ubiquitous Dede1 on the issue of the 1962 elections for I know he was of voting age during that period and probably participated in the aforementioned elections. . . . without seeking to damn him with faint praise, even my own father could not compete with Dede1 when it comes to 'first hand experience' of the 1st Republic for he was just a child at that time. . . .   . . . . however, NCNC victories in the minority areas of the former eastern region must be seen through the altered prism of minorities struggle to find relevance within the WaZoBia trichotomy which controlled the political process at the time. . . . comparing NDC's efforts to an infinitely better resourced NCNC during that period is akin to comparing the respective leverage of Mr Biggs and McDonalds in the pursuit of new markets. . . . however, I wholly disagree with Dede1's statements regarding the success or lack thereof of Adaka-Boro's boys during the war; and I also disagree that Okrika can only be bequeathed a mention in the annals of PH history out of "sheer magnanimity"   . . . . however, I have no wish to go over this argument with Dede1 again.

ow11:

Nope. It is just hard to get through to you. You just want to talk and talk and pick fights where there is none. Mr Mbakwe was able to get the RVSG to give N23 million as compensation. This amount may be too small or didn't even get to the original owners of the properties. However, like I said earlier, If you have a problem with the way the entire saga was held and want to do something physical about it, you can go to court.

But on NL, you can open a thread and pour your scorn on the men behind the theft. This does not mean you should bombard every thread on RV state with this issue and not allow anyone talk about something before you divert the thread to abandoned property saga like you have done with this one.

Once again, I'm sorry you can't discuss the annals PH, and RSG in general without noting that 80-90% of all the pre-civil war houses were built by people who called themselves Igbos. The fate of those houses is inseperable from the history of the city. It's like discussing the history of NYC without saying how the Dutch influenced it.