My dear friend Abuzola,

I have taken the liberty to go through your posts on the site and am leaning towards a different conclusion.

If you spent a little more time to work on your articulation it would do you a great deal of good.

Please do not be offended by this but your posts suggest that you were seeking Admission into the University last year. If this is so, then I can understand why you are unable to follow logical discussions rationally without deviating.

You ask questions clearly, but when clarification is sought you change the topic and continue with incongruable rants. . .

Abuzola:

Oga, so can you explain how the 3 gods or trinity is ? Since you refute me

Too much grammar is harmful. Where did I refute you? I asked for clarification. Or don't you know what refute means anymore. In case you don't, it means to reject an opinion with overwhelming evidence. I don't recall doing that on this thread.


Care to clarify before we proceed?

Didn't you reject my points. I knew it that my post was right and accurate, no christian will be able to refute what i ve stated earlier except confusing or puting words disorderly, hence in the wake of naiveness. I have challenged many christians and it seems they follow christianity in ignorance and not certain about their mystery God, 3 in 1 series, if the 3 gods or trinity are 1 then why would jesus be declaring yet another god in heaven and saying the other god is greater than him ? I have my proofs from the bible.





This is a food for thought for the wise




I never stated that am seeking admission dude, am in 200l if you wish to know

Abuzola:

Didn't you reject my points. I knew it that my post was right and accurate, no christian will be able to refute what i ve stated earlier except confusing or puting words disorderly, hence in the wake of naiveness. I have challenged many christians and it seems they follow christianity in ignorance and not certain about their mystery God, 3 in 1 series, if the 3 gods or trinity are 1 then why would jesus be declaring yet another god in heaven and saying the other god is greater than him ? I have my proofs from the bible.





This is a food for thought for the wise




I never stated that am seeking admission dude, am in 200l if you wish to know

Abuzola, you have made no points on this thread. In fact, all you have done is ask questions and make blanket statements. This thread was not started by you, unless you started it under the guise of I?

Again I ask, please quote a point of yours that I have refuted on this thread. Forget about all the other threads for a minute and focus on the issues on this thread so you don't post out of context.

Also, I never said you were currently seeking admission, I made reference to a post of yours from 2008. You are probably in 200L.

@all

The links below are for your perusal!

Abuzola:

Plz cut off mark for medicine and surgery

Abuzola:

I'm asked to fill my comfirmation number and i insert the figures of my scratch card but of no avail, help me please

Abuzola:

Unilag ve made the checking of the result accessible at dial minute, you dont even need a scratch card or ATM at this crucial time, just login ur UME number thats all, for the past 3 weeks na suffer i dey sufferto try to check result but abortive , NAWA OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO  Which kind skul b dat self ? oga wooooooooooooooooooooo

Abuzola:

Am confused 0, which is this 08/09 or 07/08

@Abuzola
Please don't call me dude  . . . at least not yet! Can we at least get to see a picture of you on your profile? 

Thank you for clarifying the fact that you are in 200L. I will keep that at the back of my mind when I address you as I can see why some things may be difficult for you to comprehend.  I was in 200L several years ago and I recall that I began to search for a deeper relationship with God during the period.

Since you insist, I will post the response to your query on the the person of God.

Abuzola, one thing you fail to understand is the fact that since you ask Christians for the answer, there is no way your beliefs will tally as we believe radically different things. The best thing is either to learn about such, and respect it or attempt to refute such (like you boldy do) with a systematic, step by step approach.

Finally, I wish to admonish you to always keep on-topic as you are very fond of deviating from the questions you ask.

Have a great day

Jesus is lord, and the trinity is true (tri-unity), its not to be understood with a carnal mind as that same mind makes men become atheists, if you really want to know who Christ really is study the word and meditate on it pray for answers on questions raised, but all you do is read it, to someone without a scientific background, scientific theories would sound stupid to him if he only reads but doesn't study it in detail, abuzola just reads he shows the wisdom of the flesh, the kind showed by Nicodemus who was a big religious cleric at the time who thought being born again meant to go back into one's mother's womb, and abuzola thinking trinity means one. we know atoms to be the smallest particles of a chemical element that still exhibit all the chemical properties unique to that element.(and its comprised of protons,electrons and neutrons), its 3-in-1, the atom has every property that the element has. the human body is composed of the body, soul and the spirit, that won't make me call 1 person 3 persons. that analogy can best explain the trinity

the trinity is this God, the Word (Son), the Holy Spirit and its one ,in unison cant understand it with the human mind,

@ abuzola,John 17: 20"My prayer is not for them alone. I pray also for those who will believe in me through their message, 21 that all of them may be one, Father, just as you are in me and I am in you. May they also be in us so that the world may believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given them the glory that you gave me, that they may be one as we are one: 23 I in them and you in me. May they be brought to complete unity to let the world know that you sent me and have loved them even as you have loved me. 24 "Father, I want those you have given me to be with me where I am, and to see my glory, the glory you have given me because you loved me before the creation of the world. 25" Righteous Father, though the world does not know you, I know you, and they know that you have sent me. 26 I have made you known to them, and will continue to make you known in order that the love you have for me may be in them and that I myself may be in them."

@ahonohai, am having difficulty in pronouncing your name so don't worry if i misspelt it.





The admission card is for my sister and not me, am not schooling in unilag, get it man.


Ahonohai, if you can't answer simple question on your religion why not agree with my points.

The Quran is so easy no need to beat the bush.

Quran 54:17
And we have indeed made the Quran easy to understand and remember: then is there any who will remember this admonition ?'



i again lay emphasy on my point that if truely trinity exist then Jesus is a surbodinate god, read this,
jesus said john 14:28 'my father is greater than i'



if jesus is 3 in 1 consisting of the father, son and spirit, then hear what he quote
jesus said john 5:30
'I can do nothing on my own authority, as i hear i judge, and my judgement is just, because i seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me"



praise be to God, no wonder he cried asking for help mathew 27:46 'MY God MY God why hast thou forsaken me'



from the above quote jesus was never a god, a word is enough for the wise

What is the genealogy of Mohammed and O O o, do they have something in common? Do they have a lineage? felow mus.lims is up to go - stop dancing around Jesus! now you have the question - provide answers

Abuzola:

@ahonohai, am having difficulty in pronouncing your name so don't worry if i misspelt it.

I haven't even told you my middle name . . .laughs!!! . . . just type it right.

Abuzola:

The admission card is for my sister and not me, am not schooling in unilag, get it man.

I believe you; just the same way it was your friend who had a problem with masturbation.

Abuzola:

Tanx ukoma, plz note dat am not the one who masturbates oo, its my friend, i talked on his behalf to get a good respond

Abuzola:


i again lay emphasy on my point that if truely trinity exist then Jesus is a surbodinate god, read this,
jesus said john 14:28 'my father is greater than i'

The essence of the Trinity is predicated upon the fact that there is a self-existent triune God. You forget that Jesus was born not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.

If you do not believe in the Holy Spirit, you cannot believe the trinity.

Abuzola:


if jesus is 3 in 1 consisting of the father, son and spirit, then hear what he quote
jesus said john 5:30
'I can do nothing on my own authority, as i hear i judge, and my judgement is just, because i seek not my own will but the will of him who sent me"

God, not Jesus is three in one.

Abuzola:

from the above quote jesus was never a god, a word is enough for the wise

I agree with you on this, Jesus was never a god, he is the Word made flesh,

ahonohai:

John chapter 1

1. In the begining was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God.

2. The same was in the begining with God

3. All things were made by him; and without him was not any thing made that was made


14.And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15. John bare witness of him, and cried saying. This was he of whom I spake, he that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16. And of his fullness have all we recieved, and grace for grace.

17. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18. No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

ahonohai:

Luke 1 from verse 26

26. And in the sixth month the angel Gabriel was sent from God unto a city of Galilee, named Nazareth

27. To a virgin espoused to a man whose name was Joseph, of the house of David; and the virgin's name was Mary.

28. And the angel came in unto her, and said, Hail, thou that art highly favoured, the Lord is with thee: blessed art thou among women.

29. And when she saw him, she was troubled at his saying, and cast in her mind what manner of salutation this should be.

30. And the angel said unto her, Fear not, Mary: for thou hast found favour with God.

31. And, behold, thou shalt concieve in thy womb, and bring forth a son, and shalt call his name JESUS.

32. He shall be great, and shall be called the Son of the Highest; and the Lord God shall give unto him the throne of his father David:

33. And he shall reign over the house of Jacob for ever; and of his kingdom there shall be no end.

34. Then said Mary unto the angel, How shall this be, seeing I know not a man?

35. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost Shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that Holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

36. And, behold, thy cousin Elisabeth, she hath also concieved a son in her old age: and this is the sixth month with her, who was called barren.

37. For with God nothing shall be impossible.

38. And Mary said, Behold the handmaid of the Lord; be it unto me according to thy word. And the angel departed from her.

ahonohai:

John chapter 1

14.And the Word was made flesh, and dwelt among us, (and we beheld his glory, the glory as of the only begotten of the Father,) full of grace and truth.

15. John bare witness of him, and cried saying. This was he of whom I spake, he that cometh after me is preferred before me: for he was before me.

16. And of his fullness have all we recieved, and grace for grace.

17. For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ.

18. No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son, which is in the bosom of the Father, he hath declared him.

Jesus is the Word made flesh!

ahonohai:

"For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one." (1 John 5:7).

"And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them." (Genesis 1:26-27).

The word "God" used in Genesis is a Hebrew word "Elohim" which is plural, (this might also highlight your question on the Trinity), note the US used continually as well as the fact that creation was made in the image of "US" - Elohim.

The self-existent God exists in three distinct personalities. I must admit at this point that it takes Faith and not logical reasoning to believe.

The Spirit is the first person of the God-head to be revealed in Scripture but the last to be revealed in the New Testament.

Simply put, the FATHER reigns supreme on His throne, He Speaks His WORD and His SPIRIT causes it to come to pass. See 1 John 5:7 at the top of the post.

Ahonohai,
you forgot to quote me impersonating my imam on Nl,



We are making progress, i believe you agree with me jesus wasn't god from ur earlier post. The same belief the muslim hold on, so who is jesus ?

@Abuzola and all other Muslim brothers and sisters here,

Why do we have to bother ourselves calling these deluded folks to see the light of Islam and be saved from hell fire? Look and read what their gang leader, Mr Pastor devidylan had to say about their "religion":

davidylan:

This again is more proof that islam is simply the devil's fallen attempt to oppose Christ and the gospel of salvation. What does it mean to "not exceed the limits of religion"? Is allah aware that christianity is NOT a religion but a relationship with JESUS CHRIST?

Where is Tudor, hulex and the rest? You get followers.

Abuzola:

Ahonohai,
you forgot to quote me impersonating my imam on Nl,



We are making progress, i believe you agree with me jesus wasn't god from ur earlier post. The same belief the muslim hold on, so who is jesus ?

I said Jesus wasn't a god. Please note the context.

I recall previously stating who Jesus is several times on this thread. Try using the search and you'd find the answer. . .

---

Press ctrl-F to bring up the search function
Type "Jesus is" without the quotes and click find next.
Eventually you will come accross my response!

---

muhsin:

@Abuzola and all other Muslim brothers and sisters here,

Why do we have to bother ourselves calling these deluded folks to see the light of Islam and be saved from hell fire? Look and read what their gang leader, Mr Pastor devidylan had to say about their "religion":

Where is Tudor, hulex and the rest? You get followers.

My brother muhsin, I'm not comfortable with you referring to davidylan as Mr Pastor devidylan - the supposed gang leader of deluded Christians. Discourse in respectable terms will be highly appreciated. . . even Abuzola has come to see the benefits of that

However, I wish to affirm the truth that CHRISTIANITY IS NOT A RELIGION. . .If you wish to discuss this, please start another thread and it will be treated there.

Cheerio!

Thanks for the reproach. I had a slip tongue.

BTW, why can't you shade more light on that saying?

Thanks once again.

muhsin:

Thanks for the reproach. I had a slip tongue.

BTW, why can't you shade more light on that saying?

Thanks once again.

Ti's all good.

If you start a new topic I'd shed light on it there so we don't go off topic. I believe this discussion is titled Who is Jesus not Is Christianity a Religion?

Regards

OK. I'll, inshaAllah.

Read what I believe about Jesus and Christianity, i.e. I believe the existence of one true God:

I disbelief in Christianity and belief in Islam when I, ESPECIALLY, look at that Trinity obscurity and dogmatism. It's boldly and numerously said therein the Bible that the Lord?God is one, but they claim that he's three. I wonder it's in algebraic or in ordinary mathematics that 1+1+1=1. This rationally, intelligently and reasonably sound completely absurd and even thoughtless. Contrary to this it's said:

Old Testament:

1-Hear, O Israel: The Lord our God is one Lord. (Deuteronomy 6: 4)

2-Has not the One God made and sustained for us the spirit of life?(Malachi 2: 15)

3-I am the first and I am the last; besides Me there is no god. Who is like Me? (Isaiah 44: 6)

4-And many other verses.

New Testament:

1-One came and said unto him, Good Master, what good thing shall I do, that I may have eternal life? And he (Jesus) said unto him, Why callest thou me good? There is none good but one, that is, God.(Matthew 19: 16-17, in Kings James Version)

2-Now this is life eternal, that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.(John 17: 3)

3-Hear O Israel: The Lord our God is One Lord. (Mark 12: 29)

4-And many other verses

You see? Why then would they say there are three God,i.e. god the father, god the son and god the holy spirit?

Qur'an, on this issue, states (in corroboration of these quoted verses ):

1-Say: He is Allah, the One; Allah, the Eternal, Absolute; He begets not, nor is He begotten; and there is none like unto Him. (112: 1-4)

2-There is no god but I; so worship Me. (21: 25)

3-Can there be another god besides Allah (God)? High is Allah above what they associate with Him.(27: 63)

Indeed, this message concerning the Oneness of God (i.e., Tawheed in Arabic) is the essential theme of the Qur’an. Why should I take Qur'an, then?

After Trinity, another issue in relation to it is the calling of all the Prophet to worship none but Allah. For example, when Moses (p.b.u.h) was asked about the first commandment in your Bible. He said in Mark 12:28-29 and said the Lord is One.

Noah (p.b.u.h) said in Qur'an 33:23 that God is One.

Prophet Hood (p.b.u.h) in Qur'an 7:59 said the same.

Salih (p.b.u.h) in Qur'an 7:65 also said the same.

Shu'aib (p.b.u.h) in the same vein uttered the same in Qur'an 7:73.

And all others said. Therefore, Muhammad (p.b.u.h)'s message is BUT true. Allah says unto him: "And We sent no messenger before you but commended him to inform his people that there is no true God except I; therefore worship Me alone. (Qur'an 21:25).

Moreover, I don't at all believe that Jesus was the son of God. This may come up next time. Now there are loads to do on the net.

Thanks for your understanding. May the Lord of Muhammad (p.b.u.h), the Lord of Jesus (p.b.u.h), our Lord--Allah, the Exalted, guide us all, ameen.

Thank you for your structured response.

Please note that I did not say there were three gods.

It's a known fact that 1+1+1=3

Hence 1=1=1 is what I am saying.

I agree with the bible verses you stated but would need to explain all over again the self-existence of God in three persons, note that I did not say personalities!

In case you missed it, there is one God.

. . .more to follow

ahonohai:

Hence 1=1=1 is what I am saying.

What of this verse:John 14:28, where he says the father is greater than I. Isn't that--your above saying, a contradiction to it?

Thanks

@muhsin,
thanks to Allah, thanks to me for lettimg them realise that christianity isn't a religion. The thread 'WE ARE READY TO ACCEPT CHRISTIANITY' really changed the scope of everything. Most if not all believe christianity was a religion. I am still having problem convincing my friend that christianity is not a religion.


Biggest challenge: Then what is the religion of christians ?


When you want to fill a form, you are ask 'what is your religion ?' all the christians will admit christianity.



Are christians confused or rather complicated into a mystery religion ?


Think.



@ahonohai, you keep denying jesus personality and yet your statements contradicts. Finally who is jesus ?

@Abuzola

I do not wish to cast aspersions at you but from all indications, you have great difficulty understanding simple statements.

muhsin has been good enough to read carefully and post structured responses unlike you who always deviate and make unfounded allegations.

One more time I wish to state for the record that at no time did I deny the personality of Jesus Christ.

Jesus is the Word made flesh. (John 1:14)
In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God (John 1:1)

You can make your inference from there.

@muhsin
Please permit me to round off at work and I will continue our discourse once I get home from work.

@all
Enjoy your evening

Jesus was word and flesh. Now jesus isn't god but a mere man.


In our Holy Quran we are made to know that in the beginning was word when Allah say 'BE' and we are created, thus into flesh.


What distinguish me from jesus, i am word and flesh.


Am expecting you to deny or rebuff because i know your attitude of pretext

@ahonohai,

OK. Am too going. Until then.