Chiwude:
Chinenye, the 'wu' for 'bu' is generally used in southern Igbo including the Mbaise-Etche-Ngwa axis. From Orlu-Owerri-Umuahia axis the 'wu' is quite pronounced. I for once think the 'bu' is a nothern Igbo dialect which is now incorporated in the Standard Igbo language.

Chiwude:
I for once think the 'bu' is a nothern Igbo dialect which is now incorporated in the Standard Igbo language.

1shortblackboy:
These igbos can't be reasoned with. *walks out from thread*

ChinenyeN:


What would you like to reason on? Perhaps you have yet to deal with someone with enough knowledge and understanding about the subject-matter to reason with. You have yet to deal with me, and I don't discuss like most others here on NL. So, would you still like to reason on Ibani, because I'd be interested.

The question will then be, do you yourself have enough knowledge and understanding about the subject-matter to be reasoned with as well, because reasoning is not a one-way street. Treating it as such [a one-way street] only creates an argument where there need not be one, and I'm not interested in arguments. There's enough of that wasteful nonsense on NL as it is.

Radoillo:


Now that we are on this subject, I was looking for information on Ngwa-Bonny relations online. I have previously heard vague remarks about Ngwa playing some role in the founding of Bonny. During my search, I stumbled on a Nairaland thread. It appears you had written something on that. I was unable to read it though. Apparently it had been taken down from Scribd (or was it ResearchGate?).

Do you mind going over some of the issues you discussed in that write-up? I'm really interested.

Deltagiant:


I Googled and found this piece on Ngwa-Bonny relations by ChinenyeN. Very interesting.

According to Ngwa traditions, an Ngwa man remembered as Okobo had two sons, recollected as Agba (said to be short for Agbayiegbe) and Okwuleze. Agba was a known hunter, and it is said that one day he headed toward the coast, on a hunting expedition. He returned days later to report that he came across a place with lots of birds, most notably curlew (Igoro-omirima, Igoloma, Ugoloma, depending on where in Ngwa/Ndoki one is from). Agba and some members of his family and some of his kinsmen later on then decided to migrate over and settle there. Some of Agba's family members though (being some sons, his brother [Okwuleze] and his [Okwuleze's] family), and other kinsmen didn't migrate, and instead remained where they were, at what is now known as Umuagbayi (Umu Abayi in Rivers State). Ijo people though, say Alagbariye was from Central Delta and that his name is Ijo. *shrug*

Now, here are some interesting things to note (and also infer)

#1. Umuagbayi traditions are silent about Ijo contact. They don't speak of any Ijo migration.

#2. G.I. Jones, the European man who did the most thorough work on the various groups/clans in the area, also notes similar, by stating: Both Ijo and Ibo traditions are silent about any contact between the two groups, apart from the Azuogo Ndokki, and Kalabari legends. - Trading States of the Oil Rivers

#3. Bonny traditions on migration route admit to Ijo coming in contact with already established Ngwa (Igbo) in what is now Ndoki, some of whom they then traveled with to Bonny.

#4. Referencing #'s 2 & 3 above, and in correlating Ijo and Ngwa accounts, we can see that Ijo migrants likely came in contact with Agba [Agbayiegbe] and co. (who were likely already en route toward the place with lots of curlew [Igoro-omirima] birds) and likewise joined them.

#5. No one seems to know the meaning of Alagbariye (or if they know, they aren't saying), but one thing that's interesting to note is that in Bonny/Ijo traditions, Alagbariye is said to be a prominent hunter (confirmation to Umuagbayi-Ngwa traditions) and a chief, and interestingly enough, "chief" in Ijo is ala (chief/leader).

#6. Seeing as to how the meaning or history behind Alagbariye's name is more or less unknown to the Ijo, and noting that the Ijo expression for "chief/leader" is ala, we can likely infer that the Ijo, in coming into contact with Agbayiegbe and co., must have referred to Agbayiegbe as Ala Agbayiegbe (chief/leader Agbayiegbe), as he is indeed the one who was leading the migration toward Bonny (as oral traditions recount), and as Bonny and Ngwa oral traditions further state, he became the chief/clan-head once the migrants settled at Bonny; the founder.

#7. Overtime, there maybe could have been either a corruption in speech (as there typically tends to be in things like this) and/or some error in transcription when Europeans recorded the oral accounts of the natives (as we are all familiar with, i.e. Sirie [Siriye], Onitsha [Onicha], Okrika [Wakrike], Bonny [Ubani/Ibani], etc.), which is likely responsible for Ala Agbayiegbe (chief/leader Agbayiegbe) being either eventually spoken as Ala-Agbariye and/or eventually recorded variously by Europeans as Alagbariye, Alagbara, Alagba-n-ye. Both [the speech corruption and the European transcriptions] seem equally likely.

Lastly -- [url=http://www.google.com/search?tbm=bks&tbo=1&q=ngwa+ibani&btnG=Search+Books#sclient=psy&hl=en&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=ngwa+bonny+alagbara&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&fp=efa74fedee4c96d0]GoogleBooks Search: ngwa bonny alagbara[/url] :: [url=http://www.google.com/search?sclient=psy&hl=en&tbo=1&tbm=bks&source=hp&q=ngwa+14th+century&aq=f&aqi=&aql=&oq=&pbx=1&bav=on.2,or.r_gc.r_pw.&ech=1&psi=-I-tTcWfBInqgAeLnOmFDA130323113637019&emsg=NCSR&noj=1&ei=w5GtTZLPN8GM0QHCofCuCw]GoogleBooks Search: ngwa 14th century[/url]

So, basically, attempts to match Bonny/Ijo and Ngwa oral traditions seems to indicate that Alagbariye (Ala-Agbayiegbe) was an Ngwa man, as Bonny oral tradition says.
https://www.nairaland.com/500126/true-extent-alaigbo-igboland/62

aRadoillo:


Hmmm. Interesting. I have read elsewhere where Alagbariye was described as an 'Ibo hunter'. Where exactly in Igboland I wasn't able to find out. I assumed that if there were Igbos present in Bonny in the early stages of its history, they would be Ndoki, rather than Ngwa who are found farther in the interior.

But I really don't know much about the history of the Ngwa-Ndoki-Ibani area.

Again, this is interesting. Thank you.

ChinenyeN:


I'm not so inclined to call 'bu' a northern Igbo peculiarity, especially when Ekpeye, Etche, Ikwere, Asa, Ngwa and Ndoki communities natively use 'bu' instead of 'wu'. This is the entire southern end of the Igbo-speaking region, and these communities have been pretty good about preserving their speech. It seems highly unlikely that 'bu' is a peculiarity from northern Igbo which they later learned.

letu:
ok you really dont know, what do you mean by interior or our you saying that Ukwa is faraway from Ngwaiyiekwe, Ihie ukwu?, speaking of faraway that will be Isialangwa north&south,Aba north&south and Osisioma ngwa.While the remenig two are vary close with each other includin Ukwa, not for geting Akumimo(Obingwa lga) & Azumini(Ukwa easth lga).

Radoillo:


Unless my geography and ethnography of that region is inaccurate, Asa and Ndoki are distinct groups from the Ngwa, and their territories are south of Ngwa, making Ngwa an interior group relative to Asa and Ndoki. That is what I meant.

It appears however that you do not recognise the existence of a distinct Asa sub-ethnicity.

letu:
You can help me and explain more about this distinct Asa sub-ethnicity, it's not that i dont recognise it, but i like to know about them, their history andalso how diffrent their history and origin is to other Asa group in Ndoki,Osisioma ngwa,Ugwunabow, Etche,forget about the lingustics bla bla bla! in Ngwa we also have many ways to speak the Ngwa, in north easthern part of Ishialangwa the will say ibelaka for backyard,Obi ngwa will say azu ulo, the same part of Ishialangwa i'm talking about will say 1-bie yeretu maaka-help,2- ga ajara- to relax on a bed,3- ga ge yire uweigi - go and put on your cloth. While in Obi ngwa the same words will go like this 1-bie etiturum aka, 2- giejiaroo ngahu,3- geturu uwegi andalso in thesame Obi ngwa those from Ohanze,Onicha ngwa and Nlaagu they have their owen way of speaking Ngwa but this dose not mean that each of them are now distinct from each other.

Radoillo:


I don't know about their history and origin, nor how distinct their speech is from Ngwa and Ndoki. What I do know is that a distinct Asa identity apparently exists. There may be historical explanations for the Asa place-names in Ngwa, Etche and Ndoki which you pointed out. Just as there could be a historical explanation for an 'Ikwerre' place-name in Etche. Maybe migration. Maybe isolation and Ngwanization/Ndokinization of Asa groups by Ngwa/Ndoki groups pushing into what was originally Asa lands. I don't know.

In any case, Asa identity (outside the Asa place-names within the neighbouring groups) is real, and they do have a homeland, south and west of Ngwaland as can be seen in the map below (from "A Study of the Slave and Palm Produce Trade amongst the Ngwa-Igbo of Southeastern Nigeria" by J.N. Oriji).

Perhaps you could find useful information about this Asa subethnicity on this Asa website: http://www.adu-usa.org/

Radoillo:


I don't know about their history and origin, nor how distinct their speech is from Ngwa and Ndoki. What I do know is that a distinct Asa identity apparently exists. There may be historical explanations for the Asa place-names in Ngwa, Etche and Ndoki which you pointed out. Just as there could be a historical explanation for an 'Ikwerre' place-name in Etche. Maybe migration. Maybe isolation and Ngwanization/Ndokinization of Asa groups by Ngwa/Ndoki groups pushing into what was originally Asa lands. I don't know.

In any case, Asa identity (outside the Asa place-names within the neighbouring groups) is real, and they do have a homeland, south and west of Ngwaland as can be seen in the map below (from "A Study of the Slave and Palm Produce Trade amongst the Ngwa-Igbo of Southeastern Nigeria" by J.N. Oriji).

Perhaps you could find useful information about this Asa subethnicity on this Asa website: http://www.adu-usa.org/

Radoillo:


I don't know about their history and origin, nor how distinct their speech is from Ngwa and Ndoki. What I do know is that a distinct Asa identity apparently exists. There may be historical explanations for the Asa place-names in Ngwa, Etche and Ndoki which you pointed out. Just as there could be a historical explanation for an 'Ikwerre' place-name in Etche. Maybe migration. Maybe isolation and Ngwanization/Ndokinization of Asa groups by Ngwa/Ndoki groups pushing into what was originally Asa lands. I don't know.

In any case, Asa identity (outside the Asa place-names within the neighbouring groups) is real, and they do have a homeland, south and west of Ngwaland as can be seen in the map below (from "A Study of the Slave and Palm Produce Trade amongst the Ngwa-Igbo of Southeastern Nigeria" by J.N. Oriji).

Perhaps you could find useful information about this Asa subethnicity on this Asa website: http://www.adu-usa.org/

letu:
you see way i'v been asking this qustion about the very distinct Asa group, the map you posted lets place it in present day map inwhich what the map you posted will be saying is that for you to travel from Etche to Ikwerre one have to pass through a distinct group know as Asa now if you are familiar with Rivers state if you are, then show/tell me where the are in Rivers state becuse that's where the will be found when the map is compare with a modern day map andalso south of Ngwa land is Ndoki while west is Etche that's modern day Ngwa land and other groups close to Ngwa.

letu:


The
same Owaza that Ndoki people said to be part of them, Asa
did not start and end in Owaza it gose beyound and covers a
large area.From your statment it looks your sayin that Ndoki
are also Asa because that has been what i'v know about
them for many years.

letu:
Nenye your statement is confusing,who are the Asa people and inwhich of the state or state's of south easth can they be found.

abagoro:


Ndoki is not Asa but they are both often referred to as Ukwa people. The West of Ukwa that has boundary with Etche is known as Asa while the East of Ukwa that has boundary with Ibibio is Ndoki. Azumini is Ndoki.

ChinenyeN:


I don't believe there's anything confusing about my statement, but I do believe we are not on the same page. You seem to want to talk about the boundaries of Asaland, while I was only highlighting the use of 'bu' in local speech. Anyway, the Asa can be found in Abia (Ukwa West LGA) and Rivers (Obigbo urban and surrounding communities).

ijawcitizen:
HAHA! Igbo people are still convulsing here over Ijaw Land and property...what an obsession!

ijawcitizen:
HAHA! Ijo people are still convulsing here over Opopo Land and property...what an obsession!

Deltagiant:


The Ngwa migration into Bonny was at about the time the Ijaw chronicled the founding of the Island, viz 14th century. The commencement of slave trade and Bonny being an export port of Igbo slaves, could have blunted the presence of Ngwa Igbos on the island.

This said, it’s also reasonable to ask why Okpara Ndoli took instead the title of Amanyanabo. On the other hand, we may never know whether the ‘Opara’ was actually the kingship title Opara Ndoli held.

As it is also difficult to ascertain when ‘Amanyanabo’ title came into existence in the emerging Bonny order than the guess work which has has become the official stand of the kingdom. However, it would be safe to say that there were two groups of Igbo speakers in Bonny at the time. Slaves/freed slaves and those of Ngwa lineage.

You made a plausible hypothesis on the name 'Ubani'. You may want to visit Ngwasocialclub.org

Chiwude:
Yes of course. Bonny had indigenous Igbos at that time and also imported Igbo slaves. The indigenous Igbos even owned imported hinterland Igbo slaves. But we cannot really tell which Igbo lineage they originated from. Yet, it is wise to assume Ndoki. We can also assume they arrive the same period as Okpara Asimini (Ndoli). The Ibani history made mention of a certain Ottam people as the aborigines of Bonny. It was also recognised that the Nwaotam masquerade had its origin from the Ottam people.

http://www.opobiansindiaspora.org/opobo--culture.html

ijawcitizen:
nobody cares about the delusions of the canibals anymore...such opinions are only relevant in da canibal enclaves alone