Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? - Religion (12) - Nairaland
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Poll: Does the New Testament require us to tithe?Yes: 38% (28 votes)No: 61% (44 votes) This poll has ended |
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| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 3:16pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
@ttalks, i wont comment on your post, you know why, because if i do , u may decide to pak ur luggage again and run from this topic , which i do not want to happen here again. as it appearsyou seem dry to proofs and ideas hence you are beginning to extract articles from other writers on the internet to butress your point not minding if they themselves could just be theologists  How you dey na?  |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 3:20pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
chukwudi44: tales of a desperate catholic brother wanting to contribute his quota, at least we all have freedom to expressions, right?!!!  , like KunleOshod like son - all cries against how MOGs spend church money and nothing more |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Tonyet1(m): 3:34pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
Mr.Zikkyy, One moment you're accepting titheing as Jesus' instruction and the next moment you are claiming it was directly spoken to the pharisees and not christians hence we should not practice. na wa o, so those parables he spoke to the multitude doesnt apply to the christians too, . . hmmm Your stale beleive that all things Jesus taught and practised before his death where no longer relevant after his death is simply a sign that you seem fenced. the law you are claiming as wrong, do you know the real significance of this law itself? You quote that Paul says its no longer important yet to fail to quote that this same law is still very much relevant 1 Tim 1:8 8 [b]Now we recognize and know that the Law is good if anyone uses it lawfully [for the purpose for which it was designed], AMP Well that verse are for those who feel titheing is a law, as i personally dont believe it is, for if it is, then pls let someone show me where in the OT it was said "the law of titheing", i have taken time to explain to everyone here that what you guys have been claiming as a law was never mentioned as a law, we see from the OT the law of firstfruit, the law of heave offering, the law of seed offering, the law of peace offering, the law of cereal offering, the law of all first born, the law of sin offering. where was it stated [U] THE LAW OF TITHE/TITHING[/u]. and if you are claiming Jesus abolished the law, then dont you think that would mean he abolished law commandment of "THOU SHALT NOT MURDER" thus therefore we should all come out and start murdering one another afterall according to you, the law is no longer needful. *shakes head and sigh* see you next week brother |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Zikkyy(m): 5:14pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
Tonye-t: Honestly, i am still trying to figure out the post i made that enabled you to draw such conclusion or quote by me. I am not going to be drawn into an argument on this. I leave that to other readers of the thread, they are my target not you. Tonye-t: We are going round in circles here. You dont need tithe to be mentioned as a law to confirm this. i will advise you go back and read your bible with an intention to truly understand the content. The book of Deuteronomy is advised, there you will find that the various rules stated from Chapter 12 to chapter 26 (i think) were all contained in the law. Without refering to you personally (cos i know you are aware of the truth), i think most people read the bible in verses/bits (as quoted by the MOG to suit a purpose) thereby missing out on the correct interpretation of any particular message. It idea to read your in detail to get better understanding. Secondly, i can see you fail to see my point here. I dont have issues with you remitting a tenth of your monthly income to the church, i think its good if you can afford it, but dont confuse it with tithe as practice in the OT. This is what i dont agree with. I still insist there are no Levites in your church for this was the purpose of the tithe as well as the widows, orphans e.t.c (not for church expansion, paying the bills, or organising crusades e.t.c.) Quoting malachi 3:10 as a basis for justification is fraud cos the requirement to be fulfilled by that verse differs significantly from what you currently practice. Churces tend to use this verse to coerce/trick people to part with a tenth of their income. Putting fear in the heart of your congregation for the purpose making them part with a tenth of their hard earned income is fraud and a sin. People will always be bleseed for giving but not because they adhered to the law of tithing. This is where you get it wrong. My conclusion: Encourage/teache people to give willingly according to their ability. Giving should not always be tied to a return. This breeds insincerity on the part of the giver and discourage giving when no financial return is expected. Christian giving should be an act of joy, and not a business. Like i said earlier, my post is not for you as you are hell bent on going down this sinful path. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 7:18pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
@tonye-t why don't you explain why Paul disobeyed God's command by not asking his congregation to tithe,instead of fending for himself ? Please Ihave asked this question several times and am still begging for aswers Hopw come the tithing frequency was increased from once in three years(deut 14;28,deut 26;12) mentioned in the bible to the unbiblical weekly monthly and daily tithing practised today ? |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Zikkyy(m): 8:02pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
Tonye-t: Honestly, i am surprised you can say this. When you kept insisting that because there was no where in the Bible tithe was mentioned as a law, it is therefore not a law. It obvious you twist facts to suit your arguments. Your posts at the begining of the thread was okay, but you are begining to disappoint me. Tonye-t: Please, show me where in the bible God told Abraham to tithe. Thanks. If you want to relate your current practice to the one done by Abraham, i guess you will need to go to war or start one. Dont come in the direction of my village though (i am from a militant region), you could end up being the tithe proper |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 8:15pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
tales of a desperate catholic brother wanting to contribute his quota, at least we all have freedom to expressions, right?!!! , like KunleOshod like son - all cries against how MOGs spend church money and nothing more This is the rantings of a desperate penteco$tal whoose illegal source of livelihood is being threatened |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by debosky(m): 8:34pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
Let me weigh in with my own thoughts on this: Tonye-t: In my view, Jesus in this case wasn't giving instructions on tithing per se, but castigating the Pharisees for being meticulous in 'obedience' to the law, but failing to do things that would improve the lives of fellow people. While you might regard it as tacit support for tithing, this is a flawed view. Jesus was clearly NOT against the practice of tithing - he wouldn't be because it served a clear role in providing for the priesthood as specified under Mosaic law. In all his teachings about the KINGDOM of heaven/Kingdom of God, no tithing is mentioned - that is a clear omission that is telling in my view. The tithing (as under the law) which Jesus was speaking of related primarily to bringing food items to the temple, not money, and to the Levites who had no inheritance. He mentioned tithe of dill and cumin not money, and definitely did not teach any of this to his disciples. We hear of no collections of dill and cumin monthly, weekly or at any other frequencies.
No one can claim the law is wrong, because it is NOT. However, due to the sinful nature, the law is unable to achieve reconnection with God.
This verse simply says the law is intrinsically Good - because it was handed down by God. Again, what did the law say about tithes? It referred to food, and only money if it was burdensome to bring the food to the temple/priest. And what was the PURPOSE of tithing as under the law? To provide for Levites, who had no inheritance in Israel. This purpose has ceased to exist in the Church since we are ALL Priests and no one is prevented from supporting himself. However, the pastors (shepherds) who teach the gospel have a right to be supported by those whom they teach. This however, is NOT predicated on tithe ANYWHERE in the New Testament. Well that verse are for those who feel titheing is a law, as i personally dont believe it is, for if it is, then pls let someone show me where in the OT it was said "the law of titheing", i have taken time to explain to everyone here that what you guys have been claiming as a law was never mentioned as a law, we see from the OT the law of firstfruit, the law of heave offering, the law of seed offering, the law of peace offering, the law of cereal offering, the law of all first born, the law of sin offering. where was it stated [U] THE LAW OF TITHE/TITHING[/u]. and if you are claiming Jesus abolished the law, then dont you think that would mean he abolished law commandment of "THOU SHALT NOT MURDER" thus therefore we should all come out and start murdering one another afterall according to you, the law is no longer needful. First of all, your verbal gymnastics over the 'law' and 'instruction' are not useful, they merely show unnecessary hairsplitting by yourself. Tithing as practiced by the Jews was in response to a specific instruction (i.e. that there might be FOOD (produce) in God's house and as an inheritance to the priests due to their service to HIM. I have also personally used the examples of Abraham and Jacob to say tithing is not law, but this has to be examined in detail as well. Both cases were ONE OFF events. Abraham did not give tithes continuously, he only did it based on that particular battle. Jacob's tithe was not continous either, but was made as a promise - to be fulfilled if God did what he asked for. Abraham DECIDED to tithe, so did Jacob, without any claim to be a 'robber' or 'stealing from God'. There can be no rational linkage between the tithing done by Jacob and Abraham to that done by Israel in my view. Tithing is a choice, nothing more. It is not 'wrong' to tithe, but it is wrong in my view, to label others as robbing God if they don't do it. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by debosky(m): 8:46pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
To those using 1 Cor 16:2 to 'justify' tithing, let's examine it in detail: Now about the collection for God's people: Do what I told the Galatian churches to do. 2 On the first day of every week, each one of you should set aside a sum of money[b] in keeping with his income,[/b] saving it up, so that when I come no collections will have to be made. Paul talks about setting aside a sum of money - nothing prescriptive in it at all - neither 10%, 1% or 99%, simply an amount in YOUR estimation, as God has prospered you. This collection was for 'God's people', i.e. a specific purpose, not simply fulfillment of a 'law' or 'instruction'. What remains clear is this: 2 Cor 9:6-11 6Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. 7Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. 8And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work. 9As it is written: "He has scattered abroad his gifts to the poor; his righteousness endures forever."[a] 10Now he who supplies seed to the sower and bread for food will also supply and increase your store of seed and will enlarge the harvest of your righteousness. 11You will be made rich in every way so that you can be generous on every occasion, and through us your generosity will result in thanksgiving to God. We are encouraged to give, not according to a 'law' or 'injunction' but simply as we had decided in our hearts to give. How then can anyone call a fellow Christian a robber for not 'paying' tithe?  Tithe is 10% - I choose to give, if you CHOOSE to, then all well and good. Is there any compulsion attached to it? No. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by viaro: 9:26pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
@debosky, I would have liked to leave this subject for those inclined to splitting hairs on it. But what is worrisome is anti-tithers trying to interprete what others are saying and yet completely miss the point. Let me point out a few: debosky: The point is not that Jesus was castigating the Pharisees but implicitly giving out an instruction. What is meant by His clear statement: " these ought ye to have done, and not to leave the other undone" - Matthew 23:23. If you assume that the big picture is His castigating the Pharisees, you should not even seek to lay any claim to judgment, mercy, and faith. He clearly stated that these ought to be done - on equal terms He stated that the other should not be negleted. Jesus was clearly NOT against the practice of tithing - he wouldn't be because it served a clear role in providing for the priesthood as specified under Mosaic law. That's good reasoning and a fresh breather instead of people (even pastors) who argue that Jesus would never have supported tithing. I actually heard a pastor teach that idea to his congregation. In all his teachings about the KINGDOM of heaven/Kingdom of God, no tithing is mentioned - that is a clear omission that is telling in my view. That is not a telling omission - that is a huge excuse. Let me show you a few things that you will not find in the Gospels where Jesus discussed the KINGDOM: * He made no mention of Melchizedek - none, nada, zilch. But Christianity is rested on expressly the statement that Jesus is 'made an high priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec' - Heb. 6:20 for example. * He made no mention of of Himself as High Priest - none, nada, zilch. But we know that Christ as our High Priest is central to our Christian faith: should we then call these examples the same as telling omissions? If we're going to seek the things of Christ, we do so not because He did not say something directly. Rather, we seek to understand what He conveys to us in the body of apostolic teachings. In this case, we cannot claim that NONE of the apostles mentioned anything about tithes. For me, I would rather say that nowhere do we find anyone condemning tithes - not in the OT nor in the NT. The tithing (as under the law) which Jesus was speaking of related primarily to bringing food items to the temple, not money, and to the Levites who had no inheritance. There you go again. 1. The Levites indeed had an inheritance - Scripture mentions both: 'the cities of the Levites' and 'the houses of the cities of their possession' Leviticus 25:32. 2. If the Levites never had any inheritance - nothing at all - then how come Scripture says that some Israelites could BUY houses from the same Levites? Leviticus 25:33? 3. Look carefully at Joshua 21 and see how the Levites got their inheritance. I'm always weary that some theologians often argue against these plain facts or otherwise excuse them away! More to the point is that you guys seem to be holding a very rigid interpretation of the Gospels and the experiences of the Jews. Please consult any good reference of Jewish scholarship on the Torah - there you will find that even the Jews do not hold that 'tithes' is ONLY food items. Have you heard of the terumah? He mentioned tithe of dill and cumin not money, and definitely did not teach any of this to his disciples. We hear of no collections of dill and cumin monthly, weekly or at any other frequencies. Tithes are not determined by how frequently they are given nor are they restricted to dill and cumin. Abraham knew nothing about such 'dill and cumin' and yet what he gave to Melchizedek were not harvested from farms. Did Scripture miss noting that what Abraham gave were called tithes as well? Why being so rigid? No one can claim the law is wrong, because it is NOT. Yeah; but we can make a sound claim that the way many Christains are reading the Law is WRONG! However, due to the sinful nature, the law is unable to achieve reconnection with God. What do you mean by "reconnection"? This verse simply says the law is intrinsically Good - because it was handed down by God. Again, what did the law say about tithes? It referred to food, and only money if it was burdensome to bring the food to the temple/priest. Did I hear you say "and only money if. . "? Okay, I'll keep that in mind. And what was the PURPOSE of tithing as under the law? To provide for Levites, who had no inheritance in Israel. Please stop. The Levites HAD INHERITANCE - we just have missed HOW they got their inheritance and keep making this unbalanced assertion. See why I ahve problems with us Christians misreading the law? |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by viaro: 9:36pm On Oct 09, 2009 |
debosky: The very verses is prescriptive. Read verse 1 and see why it was prescriptive: "as I have given order to the churches of Galatia, even so do ye". Although he mentions no specific percentage - not even 23% (which is what some Christian theologians also argue is the tithe amount, people like John MacArthur; Russell Kelly drags a huge 40% as 'tithe', etc). However, those who read his epistle quite well understood that Paul was prescribing that they MEASURE out a portion of teir income commensurate with what they had earned. That was not prescriptive, you say? Good - then that verse should mean abslutely nothing to any Christian, ignoring the fact of verse 1 - 'do AS I instructed other churches!' Otherwise we may have read something like - do just about anything that comes to your head. This collection was for 'God's people', i.e. a specific purpose, not simply fulfillment of a 'law' or 'instruction'. Giving was not established to fulfill a 'law' other than the fulfilling the law by LOVE. Love is said to be a matter of fulfilling the Law; and you will find that there is a sharp restriction imposed on HOW Israel were to give in the OT: they were to give willingly of their own hearts and not simply to fulfill ANY law. Tithe is 10% - I choose to give, if you CHOOSE to, then all well and good. Is there any compulsion attached to it? No. I may also choose to give regular in the form of a tithe - and yes, I deliberately choose to do so. Not because of fulfilling any Law - but because, like you, that is what I sense the Holy Spirit movig me to do many times. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 9:51am On Oct 10, 2009 |
chukwudi44:I am sure by now you would realize that this simple question cannot be answered based on scripture as even pro-ithers now now that tithing today is based on twisting and manipulation of the scripture to suit their lust for filthy lucre. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 9:57am On Oct 10, 2009 |
@Viaro Since you are new to this forum, you may not be aware that a lot as already been said on tithes on this forum and there have been several heated debates on the subject. It has also been firmly established that the scriptural basis for tithing today in our churches as it is prctised today is very weak in the very least and at best unscriptural. Before we start any fresh debate[ as i am always ready and eager to thrash out this issue of tithes] i would encouraged you to read my flagship post on tithes in this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html and the subsequent debates thereafter, if you have any issues then we can take it up from there. Happy reading |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by viaro: 10:35am On Oct 10, 2009 |
@KunleOshob, KunleOshob: Indeed, my being new to this forum does not mean I'm new to discussions of this sort. If Nairaland never had any discussion on tithes, we can harvest the "heat" in truck loads from other fora where debates continue to rage. Although I've had the privilege of looking through several threads to see what people are saying. Honestly, nothing new to me. It has also been firmly established that the scriptural basis for tithing today in our churches as it is prctised today is very weak in the very least and at best unscriptural. I'm not going into this same vacant assertion of yours - that is the same thing I read so many times by anti-tithers who are too busy pointing fingers at others without considering for a moment that many of their arguments are simply UNBIBLICAL. An example? Just prior to yours, I had to comment on the idea that the Levites "had no inheritance". I can well bear with people making these statements because they only recycle them from theologians who should have known better than to make such misleading clap-traps for their gullible crowds. At the end of the day, you will still find the very same anti-tithers dancing between two opinions, viz: * tithing is unbiblical * yes, Christians can tithe. This is the kind of stations you find most anti-tithers hanging out with their luggage and making out so many inconsistences for their willing crowds. No, I'm not laying into you or debosky; but my entry to this discussion is to point out that anti-tithers should learn from other people rather than arrogate to teach what they have no clue about. Before we start any fresh debate[ as i am always ready and eager to thrash out this issue of tithes] i would encouraged you to read my flagship post on tithes in this thread: https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-113108.0.html and the subsequent debates thereafter, if you have any issues then we can take it up from there. Happy reading Kunle, please drop the ego. You don't seem capable of a good debate - and nothing you have argued before is new. Before posting my reply here, I read through your comments and then followed your advice to go read your "flagship post". Already, I saw so many inconsistencies there that I've seen in the arguments of other anti-tithers. Examples? Look at this quote of yours from that link: The above passage is self explanatory and it’s states clearly that the practice of tithing has no place under the priestly order of our lord Jesus Christ in fact the passage suggests that the collection of tithes is belittling of the priestly order of our lord Jesus Christ. Huh? Do you know what the "priestly order" of Christ is? Okay, so you know it is Melchizedek? How come Melchizedek actually received tithes from Abraham if you can say that tithing has "no place" in that order? What is remarkable is that the same Melchizedek received tithes from the Levies! How come you're taking such a view and making such an assertion without having carefully considere issues? Huh?!? People can easily applaud such quips simply because they don't carefully consider Biblical teachings. When one thinks they've got it in a nutshell and are asking for a debate, that's a sure sign they are heading for a straight defeat even before they begin. But here is the one thing that far outweighs all other 'clever' arguments: listening to the voice of the Holy Spirit. Since you maintain that "the collection of tithes is belittling of the priestly order of our lord Jesus Christ", then what would you do if someone told you that the Holy Spirit urged them to tithe - and they obeyed? Where would your arguments lead? We need to be careful how we ask for something that we can't handle. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 11:07am On Oct 10, 2009 |
@Viaro Before i start this debate with you, could you let me know your basis for tithing? Do you believe it is a christian requirement? If so on what scriptural basis do you draw your assumptions? How did the bible even direct the jew to give their[not pay] tithes? Is there any where in the bible were christians were asked to tithe? Is the law still in operation? if not why single ourt one aspect of the law to implement? Tha apotles where charged to spread the gosple and establish christianity how come none of them ever taught tithes as a christian requirement especially poslte paul who was a jewish pharisees and by extention a former tither? Please note that apostle Paul preached mostly to gentiles who were not aware of the Jewish tradition of tithes, so it only makes sense he would have mentioned it in at least one of the several books he wrote to admonish the young christians he converted. Or are we saying that our mordern day pastors know God's will more than the apostles that worked directly with christ. Please answer this few questions first {if you can} and lets see how this heretic practise can be justified using undiluted scripture. Also read deuteronomy 14:22-29 so as to know how the bible recommends that tithing should be implemented. That is apart from the fact that tithing was out lawed for christians and described as a weak, useless and unprofitable law in the book of hebrew 7:5-19 |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Abuzola(m): 11:15am On Oct 10, 2009 |
'ALLAH is the light of the Heavens and the earth. The parable of His light is as if there were a niche and within it a lamp, the lamp is in a glass, the glass as it were a brilliant star, lit from a blessed tree, an olive, neither of the east nor of the west. Whose oil would almost glow forth for itself, though no fire touched it. Light upon Light ! Allah guides to His Light whom He wills. and Allah sets forth parables for mankind, and Allah is All knower of everything' Quran 24:35 |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 12:29pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
viaro:I would take an exception to this particular attack for now and hope it does not grow into more provocative attacks. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by viaro: 1:29pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
KunleOshob: Exception noted. KunleOshob: The question is: are you capable of holding a debate. That is not a personal attack; but my concern is that I honestly don't like the way you have handled debates with others on this subject in your previous posts. If something does not favour an anti-tithing position, it should not go down the path of name-calling and all sorts. I have read this worrying trend in some of your own posts, and that is something I do not want to entertain. If we (you and I) are not capable of controlling our emotions on disagreeable fringes, I would rather not enter into a debate that leaves us lifeless, loveless, and lawless. Do you believe it is a christian requirement? No. If so on what scriptural basis do you draw your assumptions? Since I do not hold it as a "requirement", I would pass over that question. How did the bible even direct the jew to give their[not pay] tithes? Good to se you distinguish "give" from "pay". I guess you already know how the Jews gave their tithes. Good places to check are Numbers 18 and ancillary references. Is there any where in the bible were christians were asked to tithe? No; and there is no single verse in the Bible where christians are damned for giving tithes either. Is the law still in operation? It depends on what you mean by "in operation". If you follow my reasoning that the principles of the Law are instrinsic to the Christian life and testimony, I would sound a serious yes. if not why single ourt one aspect of the law to implement? Excuse me? Did I single out one aspect? No, not me - nada, zilch. Let me show you what I think: there are other aspects of the Law that are besides the tithes that Christians follow. We cannot deny that. An instance: if the Law plays absolutely no role in the Christian life today, why does the NT says that a woman is BOUND BY THE LAW as long as her husband lives? (Romans 7:1-2 and 1 Corinthians 7:39) - what "Law" are Christian women still "bound by" according to those passages? Again, why are women asked to My point again: I'm not the one who has singled out "one aspect of the law" to implement. That question has often been recycled every single time this topic is being discussed, and that was why I noted that nothing is new to me in this field. if anti-tithers assume the question supposes we Christians are singling out ONE aspect from the law, I guess it is because they have not carefully examined issues for themselves. Tha apotles where charged to spread the gosple and establish christianity how come none of them ever taught tithes as a christian requirement especially poslte paul who was a jewish pharisees and by extention a former tither? First, how would you argue that Paul was by extension a "former tither"? Second, the apostles did not hold this subject as a matter of what is "required" - required for what? When people use this language of "required", it simply leaves me wondering if they know what they are saying. Where is the "required" coming into the picture? Yet thirdly, you cannot maintain that the apostles did not teach tithes - they did; the difference is that they did not teach it as a requirement! Please note that apostle Paul preached mostly to gentiles who were not aware of the Jewish tradition of tithes, so it only makes sense he would have mentioned it in at least one of the several books he wrote to admonish the young christians he converted. Please also note that while he was preaching to gentiles, he did not condemn tithes a single time - and the same apostle knew that most of the Gentiles he preached to were familiar with Jewish customs. Since he knew that some of those Gentiles understood Jewish customs, he used the OT texts to preach many things to them, being careful that he did not condemn tithes a single time. Besides, the same apostle knew that tithes did not originate from Jewish customs and no one can be arguing that the issue should always revolve around the Law. Or are we saying that our mordern day pastors know God's will more than the apostles that worked directly with christ. Please, I would rather you focus on a discussion on Scripture, not ancient and modern pastors. I am not in the business of pointing fingers at anyone. As regards knowing God's will, anti-tithers clearly do not know it any better than their tithing brethren. Please answer this few questions first {if you can} and lets see how this heretic practise can be justified using undiluted scripture. Good one - i've answered; and it doesn't surprise me that you're quick to call for guns about it being "heretical". More to come. if you're going to hold a discussion, we can be civil about it; if not please let me know you can't handle it civilly and i shall remove myself accordingly. Also read deuteronomy 14:22-29 so as to know how the bible recommends that tithing should be implemented. That is apart from the fact that tithing was out lawed for christians and described as a weak, useless and unprofitable law in the book of hebrew 7:5-19 No sound theologian can argue that tithing was "outlawed" on the basis of Hebrews 7:5-19. That same passage presents two figures of preisthoods and two figures of tithes. Abraham's tithes were not "outlawed"; nor can his tithes be mirrored against Deuteronomy. It was not the tithes that were weak, useless, etc - if you hold that idea, you would have to tell us why they were weak and compare it with other passages! When you're done with that, I will ask you where you have thrown the voice of the Holy Spirit who has categorically spoken to Christians to tithe in various times and places. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by viaro: 1:39pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
@KunleOshob, I may not be available for a while, although I am until this evening. If my schedule don't get in my way, I shall find time to post you some testimonies about some Christians who have obeyed the Holy Spirit to tithe. If you don't see the post this evening, then I shall do so when I return. Do have a wonderful weekend. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by tayotoyin(f): 1:43pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
In Malachi 3:9,God placed those that refused 2 pay tithes under a curse"for ye have robbed me, " He went further in V 10 to say all tithes should be brought in2 d storehouse dt there may be meat in "mine house", until the talk about opening the windows of heaven & pouring out a blessing "that there shall not be room enough 2 recieve it. Hold on a second! Malachi is in d Old Testament which is noted for all the Old time laws,which the coming of Jesus has redeemed us from. Gal 3:11 says"But no man is justified by the law in the sight of God, " "The just shall live by faith" V 13 "Christ has redeemed us from the curse of the law,being made a curse 4 us, " B4 these in chapter 2:19,Paul said "For THRU d law am DEAD TO D LAW,that I might live un2 God" The fact that tithing was not stressed in the New Testament doesn't mean THAT LAW WAS ABOLISHED! How could they have been preaching tithe when d most important of all(the salvation of mankind) wz there to be preached. In Gal 5:1, It says " Stand fast therefore in d liberty wherewith Christ hath made us free,and not be entangled again in the yoke of bondage" Without saying too much,I would love us 2 note dt Christ's coming & subsequently His death doesn't wipe out the law of tithing,his redeemeing us to Himself doesn't mean we are free 2 act as we will. Tithe was not actually mentioned in the new testament,but the same G O D that was existent in the old testament,was still in the new testament & is still being preached 2day(more than 2000 years after the death of Jesus"Godsent" Why are we now disturbing ourselves? If one has the faith dt d blessing dt accompany d giving of tithes in Malachi 3:10 to 12 would work 4 him,fine! Let him pay his tithes, if u don't believe in it,don't try to discourage those dt pay thiers. God no dey force people abeg! |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by tayotoyin(f): 2:04pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
@N/Landers Where's Deep sight? I miss his strong post replies!
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| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by viaro: 2:28pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
tayotoyin: I like the way you reason: Jesus redeemed us from "Old time laws". Good. Now apply that to marriage: a woman is BOUND BY THE LAW as long as her husband lives (Romans 7:1-2 and 1 Corinthians 7:39) - what "Law" are Christian women still "bound by" according to those passages? Again, why are women asked to No, I'm not starting a war (God forbid). What I try to look out for is the talk that Jesus redeemed us from "Old time laws", therefore that should include every single aspect of that same "Old time laws". Why do Christians not use the same arguments for Christian women who are STILL BOUND BY THE LAW in their marriages? On what grounds do you make that exception? It's easy to rush to Galatians as firstaid to condemn what it does not condemn. But when we do so, let's not pretend to cut corners by condeming the Law and at the same time ignoring Christian marriages founded and governed by the same "Old time laws". My 2centimeters! |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by JaguaNana: 4:30pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
Is Viaro = Pilgrim 1 |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 5:29pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
JaguaNana:My exact suspisions for a newbie to post over 61 posts within 24 hrs of registering is truly pilgrim.1 like. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 5:34pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
@viaro I would be back to address your utterances later i don't really have much time to do that now. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by viaro: 5:41pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
KunleOshob: Like I said: viaro: |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Chiddysville(m): 7:15pm On Oct 10, 2009 |
pls i've been troubled by this issue of tithing. pls is there a place Jesus paid tithe in the bible? if there is, who did He pay it to and how many times? what happens to free will giving if is compulsory? what happens to the widows, the poor, the orphans and the strangers in our midst that we are supposed to cater for? if tithing is compulsory, then are christians expected to pay tax to the authorities and still expected to cater for the less priviledged without indulging in corrupt acts? from the post i read here, it seems some people pays tithe because they seek blessing from God. is tithe an act to bribe God for blessings or an act of thanksgiving freely giving? Can we really bribe God? |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 9:21am On Oct 11, 2009 |
Chiddysville:There is nothing to be worried about my brother, tithing is NOT a christian requirement as their is no directive at christians in the bible to tithe. Tithes as it obtains today in churches is a mordern day invention arived at by remixing and distorting some aspects of the obsolete Jewish laws in the old testament that are not applicable to christians in the first instance. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nimshi: 9:25am On Oct 11, 2009 |
Chiddysville: Good question. The answer is: No, Jesus is not on record to have paid the tithe. But he's on record to have instucted that Taxes must be paid; he probably didn't have much money on him, so he performed a miracle to teach the lesson: Taxes must be paid. Many Christians fail to see this. Pastor Adeboye's church schemed to have taxes waived by Obasanjo's government. Other churches do the same. . . Not good. |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 5:18pm On Oct 11, 2009 |
The point is not that Jesus was castigating the Pharisees but implicitly giving out an instruction. What is meant by His clear statement: it is awell known fact that Jesus lived under the dispensation of the law.At the time Jesus made the above statements tithing was still valid likewise burnt offering,circumcision and other jewish laws . There is no how this verse can be used to validate this criminal practice,besides that verse explicitly states that tithing while valid was not even among the weighty requirement of the law. @viaro u re welcomed to the discussion,thereis this question that I have been beging for answers fro pro tithers .Am going to repeat it again for the umpteenth time. How come the tithing frequency was increased from once in three years(deut 14;28,deut 26;12) mentioned in the bible to the unbiblical weekly monthly and daily tithing practised today ? |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by Nobody: 5:47pm On Oct 11, 2009 |
It is really amazing ,I just confirmed it online now that modern jews dont pay tithe today I was staggered by his answer. He went on to inform me that since the Bible demands that the tithe be paid to Levites, he said it would be wrong to pay it to anyone else. And further, because there is presently no official Levitical order of Priests ministering at a Temple in Jerusalem, this makes it illegal at this period to pay any biblical tithe. He went on to say, however, that the moment a Temple is rebuilt, with its altar in operation and with the priesthood officiating at that altar (and the Levites there to assist them), then every Jew who lives in the tithing zones mentioned in the Bible will be required to tithe according http://www.askelm.com/tithing/thi003.htm |
| Re: Who Says Tithing Is Not New Testamental? by KunleOshob(m): 6:01pm On Oct 11, 2009 |
@chukwudi But by now I am sure you know that tithing as it is practised today is NOT a religious doctrine but a man made scam. It is really instructive that the jews whom it was directed to no longer practise this obsolete doctrine, yet our "holy" con men whom it was never directed to insist that it is compulsary. |
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