viaro:

Do have a great weekend.

chukwudi44:

The act is is there any pentecostal church that preaches this version of tithing ?,they all insist on a percentage of 10 and a mandatory obligation of all members this is what I am preaching against

Zikkyy:

Let me clarify. When I said Non-Jews, I meant modern day Christians and not people that lived over hundreds/thousands of years before Christ. What I meant to say was “God did not speak about tithe to Christians either?” Maybe you can direct your comments at this. Ignore what I said earlier as your interpretation differs from what I had in mind. Thanks.

To improve your understanding of my position, i think its best I give you a summary.
1. I don’t attempt to force my belief on others (pro-tithers you might say). In any forum where the issue of tithing is discussed, we all share our views. Persuading a tither to change his/her belief system could result in calamity for the tither. It has to be a personal thing (to tithe or not to tithe). If you ask me Viaro, it’s the other way round. i.e. prosperity (tithe taking the center stage), is being preached by various churches/ministers with such passion,  it begins to feel like they  are on a mission to tithe the world. Tithing was not really an issue in the past (say fifteen years ago).
2. I don’t and never had issues with people that chose to give a percentage of their earnings to the church out of personal convictions and believes there is a benefit for doing this. It’s their money.
3. I don’t have issues with people inspired by the fact that even Abraham tithed also chose to give a % of their earnings to the church. It’s their money.
4. I will disagree when the other party attempts to either convince me to tithe or convince me of the benefits by referring to the Mosaic Law as justification cos its not true.
5. I will comment/disagree with any church or minister that preaches the need for tithing based on the “irrelevant” Mosaic Law cos it to fraud. It’s used to compel members to tithe.

From your posts, I can infer the following;

1. You don’t agree with church members being sweet-talked, compelled or put in a state of fear by the minister in an attempt to convince tithing.
2. You believe tithing should be based on personal conviction (and not because Moses told the Israelite to render a tenth of their farm produce to the Levites)

The only aspect I can I cannot easily infer from your post is if I would reap benefits (financial, spiritual, health e.t.c) that ordinarily will not accrue to me as a non-tither. Apart from for this, I can say that if my deductions are correct, then there is no basis for us to be arguing.

Zikkyy:

I think from my discussion with Viaro, He/She is not in support of this as well. The part i dont understand is it appears she does like anti-tithers trying to make the tithers see church actions from this perspective. Maybe, Viaro feels its an attempt to make them stop tithing. I might be wrong but thats what i read from some of Viaro's posts.

Zikkyy:

Maybe you take life too seriuosly Viaro. Is it worth it? You can still engage in a serious discussion and have fun (enjoy) as well. As long as you are not dont insult or disrespect others. Make everything you do fun and you be a better person.

Zikkyy:

I wish. I am working all weekend. But thanks. have fun yourself

That is quite sensible - and there was no need for the initial misrepresentations and frayed nerves. I may not agree with you that 'ALL' Pentecostal Churches preach a mandatory 10%, though. However, I understand what you are preaching against; but that is not the same thing as condemning tithe completely altogether.

chukwudi44:


Do you mind telling me any pentecostal church that does not preach mandatory tithing?

Am yet to see one at least here in Nigeria where I live

chukwudi44:


Do you mind telling me any pentecostal church that does not preach mandatory tithing?

Am yet to see one at least here in Nigeria where I live

Mark 10:21- Jesus felt genuine love for this man as he looked at him.[b] "You lack only one thing," he told him. "Go and sell all you have and give the money to the poor , and you will have treasure in heaven. Then come, follow me NLT

KunleOshob:

@Tonye-t and other tithe preaching heretics.

Pastor AIO:

wow!  Jesus asked a man to sell everything he owned and give the money to . . . eh? . . . hang on?  . . . give the money to . . .  the poor.  Boy, I thought for a moment he was going to say 'and give the money to your pastor'. 

1Cor.9:14 - In the same way, the Lord has commanded that those who preach the gospel should receive their living from the gospel.

How are they to live without the support from the gospel, . . dont act hypocritical, read scriptures b4 you talk

And to Mr.KunleOshod,

Bro, dont you have points again, or are you dry, mr.Anti-tither  

Tonye-t:

To Viaro,

leave him alone, his been well known to be sensitive especially when he lacks points to butress his vain and baseless arguments, he is my brother i know him very well

Tonye-t:

[Font=trebuchet ms]Pathetic, who says Jesus never demanded it? I always feel like laffing each time I hear peeps saying Jesus never demanded so so and so from us[/font]

Tonye-t:



[Font=trebuchet ms]Dear Ogajim,
Are you saying I should stop the Nonsense Jesus Instructed? or I Should stop telling folks the truth that you and I both know deep deep down inside the heart?

Ok I see, you prolly waiting for Jesus Christ to appear in your dreams and say to you [U] HEY MY SON OGAJIM, I AM JESUS CHRIST THE SAVIOUR OF YOUR LIFE, PLS I BEG YOU START PAYING YOUR TITHE HENCEFORTH[/u] Pathetic, who says Jesus never demanded it? I always feel like laffing each time I hear peeps saying Jesus never demanded so so and so from us now I ask you Do you know that even Jesus himself demanded more from us? [/font]

[/color]



[color=#000099]Now the big puzzle is this, if Jesus could tell us (I wont be surprised to see some folks still come up here and say this passage doesn’t apply to us. . .hmmm) to give up our all (including all our monies) to follow him, then why do we feel so hard fisted to JUST LET GO OF A TENTH. Wouldn’t that mean the act of GREED? And hope you know how God resent greedy folks

[b][/b]

[li] My case is this, must you need to hear Jesus say it time and time again to give tithe, b4 we adhere, isn’t a word enough for the wise? Afterall, do you mean to tell me that because he only talked about little or nothing about fasting meant it has no basis today?
OR
Is it that WE ARE REFUSING TO PAY OUR TITHE SIMPLY BECAUSE OF THE WAY OUR MOGs HAVE ABUSED AND TRAMPLED ON THE ACT? If the later is our reason, then we definitely need a rethink, a true word is enough for the wise [/li]

Tonye-t:

hey pastor AIO before you start pecking and picking have you read this scriptures?

How are they to live without the support from the gospel, . . dont act hypocritical, read scriptures b4 you talk
And to Mr.KunleOshod,
Bro, dont you have points again, or are you dry, mr.Anti-tither

ogajim:


Tonye-t

This is the kind of twisting of the Gospel that many so called "anti-tithers" fight against, giving to the poor, widows, strangers, orphans, etc. I don't see where the Bible said the "church" knows better how to spend your money for you.
Each of us will have to "work out his/her salvation with fear and trembling", I don't have a problem with members who decide to "bless" their "pastor" with something but it should not be forced, cajoled, etc.
The only Christian condition fulfilled by going to a "Church" is fellowship because "iron sharpens iron" and is not the "enchilada", some get "saved" in a "Church" but the heart and Soul is where Christ dwells in which is why the devil is after that, I am tempted to tell Tonye-t to get a job but I don't know if he just moonlights as a "pastor"

MOG, was reserved for Angels right?

@ Ogajims,

1. All you've been saying so far are TWISTING TWISTING TWISTING, cant you just come up with a bible verse that reject the practse of tithing explicitly rather than arguing baselessly so far, becos i just promised not to do any biblical quoting for you again as it appears i know you type

2. If you come up here to tell me that the only essence of going to church is to get sharpened by another iron, then bro, you're far behind

3. Bro, i aint no pastor, as it appears you just came along and joined the bandwagon of anti-tithers without standing abase with happenings from the origin

God bless you!

Tonye-t:

@ Ogajims,

1. All you've been saying so far are TWISTING TWISTING TWISTING, cant you just come up with a bible verse that reject the practse of tithing explicitly rather than arguing baselessly so far, becos i just promised not to do any biblical quoting for you again as it appears i know you type

ogajim:

When he needed to pay temple tithe, he paid with "2 shekels", when TITHE was required, money was not to be used or if you follow Mosaic law, you were actually penalized for using money.

ogajim:

I have seen your "work" on other threads so there is no need to continue this with you because it seems you benefit from this scam one way or another or you won't under normal circumstances be defending it "to the death", reserve your stuff for the academia not NL.

viaro:

But calm down. . . calm down. May I ask: who penalised anyone for using money as tithes? Who? Where? When? How is it that people make such blank statements in the idea that their own arguments are all there is to the topic?

ogajim:

Viaro: Leviticus 27:28-35 laid out the tithe system for the Children of Israel.

I have not seen anywhere on NL where "pro tithers" answer the question of the current tax system that we live under and how it relates or comes from the old tithe system.

Tithe was never about money or else we would see instances where "craftsmen", or other non farm/produce related "professions" were made to pay. The system suffered abuse even then hence Malachi writing about it before Jesus Christ himself was chasing them out of the Temple for "turning my father's house into a den of thieves"

This and other Scriptural abuses might just be the "Spiritual wickedness" we ware warned to arm ourselves against because asking a "broke" man, widow, orphan to pony up some cash so the "MOG" can add to his fleet of SUVs or what have you has got to be from the devil to say the least. Jesus was not different from his disciples or they wouldn't need him to be betrayed with a kiss.

It our duty as Christians to help others and not expect even a thank you because we are doing it for our Lord but it is NOT OUR DUTY to buy a "pastor" a bigger house, newer car, nicer suits, etc. If people decide to "bless" him with any or all of the above, than can do so as long as it comes from their heart.

donduke:

Pro-tithers should seek better grounds for their argument.

If you want to pay tithes like Abraham, go get other people's stuff, then pay a tenth to God, give the rest away! These tithers don't notice that it was a one-time affair for Abraham. He never did it again,

When Israel paid tithes under Moses, the tithes were given to one tribe that was NOT allowed to work, NOT alloted land or any property. The Levites only ate if their brothers gave tithes: they were lean and starved if others did not tithe. They were the priests and hence, 'food in my house'.

1. Question is, where do we see an injunction to give (or pay) tithes in the NT?
2. Who are the Levites today? Not pastors, (I am a pastor, by the way) because every church should pay their pastor an agreed salary for his work.
3. Why are Christians ignoring the clear NT teaching on giving which allows believers the LIBERTY to worship with their substance - giving as they have purposed in their hearts, giving sacrificially, giving as able, giving cheerfully?

Am I to believe that man just loves laws hanging over his neck or he will not do what is right?

viaro:

Dear sir, I asked you specific questions, not about how the tithe system was laid out for the children of Israel. I would be delighted if you could answer that/those specific questio(s); and if there are no answers you can provide, it would be even nicer to simply say you went off the tangent. As far as Leviticus is concerned, nobody was "penalised" for using money as tithes -none! If there was any such case (even in the Leviticus 27:28-35 that you quoted), then please show us WHO was actually "penalised" accordingly.

Please ogajim, I still have not found your answers for the bold statement you made about someone being penalised for tithing money. May I ask again: "who penalised anyone for using money as tithes? Who? Where? When?" So far, the comments you are making hitherto are deviating from those simple questions.