Deep Sight:


@ mazaje - i am not a slavish adherent of anything fed to me by any one. You should have noticed that by now. It took me many years to arrive at my conclusions trust me. In the past i have been an Anglican, Jehovah's Witness, Rosicrucian, considered Islam, and almost Crossbearer. I have read the bible, the quoran, the grail message, and many Buddhist, Taoist, shintoist, and even hindu philosophies because i am a SEEKER. So don't worry, lets just reason along little by little, we will get there,

Deep Sight:


@ tudor, mazaje, would you like to respond directly to this rationale on the zero quantity above.

@ mazaje - i am not a slavish adherent of anything fed to me by any one. You should have noticed that by now. It took me many years to arrive at my conclusions trust me. In the past i have been an Anglican, Jehovah's Witness, Rosicrucian, considered Islam, and almost Crossbearer. I have read the bible, the quoran, the grail message, and many Buddhist, Taoist, shintoist, and even hindu philosophies because i am a SEEKER. So don't worry, lets just reason along little by little, we will get there,

Krayola2:

I ain't no math whiz, actually i don't know shit about math,but i don't think any equation with only zero on each side means anything.

Chrisbenogor:

Very very true,  I am still waiting for the best sleight of the hand since cris angel.

Chrisbenogor:

Very very true, I am still waiting for the best sleight of the hand since cris angel.

Krayola2:

can u even do any calculation using 0 ? Isn't zero nothing? how can u do anything with nothing?

I ain't no math whiz, actually i don't know shit about math,but i don't think any equation with only zero on each side means anything.

Deep Sight:


This proves that the zero element is nothing, and must always remain zero! This proves that 0 + 0 = 0! Everywhere! This proves, like i said in my last post, that the world could not have come out of the zero element, and something had to cause it.

Deep Sight:

@ Tudor, Mazaje - Very good!

We are now breaking out of the first level of the discussion. Let me just add for emphasis before going forward that the reason it was important to accept that 0 + 0 = 0 in all circumstances is so that we appreciate that once we have an element ("1" or anything that exists at all in any form., then it could not have come out of the zero quatity. There must be the intervention of a substantive element to move from zero to something ("1"

Therefore: 0 + 1 = 1. Agreed?

If you accept the above equation, you accept that the world, universe, existence, whatever you call it - came not from the zero element, but from something. There needed to be an intervention in the zero element by 1 (That is to say: 0 + 1 = 1).

Thus the premise is; something caused the universe. Agreed?

Deep Sight:

@ Tudor, Mazaje - Very good!

We are now breaking out of the first level of the discussion. Let me just add for emphasis before going forward that the reason it was important to accept that 0 + 0 = 0 in all circumstances is so that we appreciate that once we have an element ("1" or anything that exists at all in any form., then it could not have come out of the zero quatity. There must be the intervention of a substantive element to move from zero to something ("1".

Therefore: 0 + 1 = 1. Agreed?

If you accept the above equation, you accept that the world, universe, existence, whatever you call it - came not from the zero element, but from something. There needed to be an intervention in the zero element by 1 (That is to say: 0 + 1 = 1).

Thus the premise is; something caused the universe. Agreed?

morpheus24:

THIS GUY!!!, I LIKE THIS GUY. AINT GONNA FEED YA TO THE FISHES FOR NOW. CARRY ON!!

huxley:

This is ad hoc reasoning. How do you go from 0 + 1 = 1 to the conclusion;

By the way, what is the differencr betwen the following equations?

1) 0 + 1 = 1

and

2) 1 = 1

Deep Sight:

@ Mantraa, please refer to my earlier post above on the fact that even if physical laws change (which i do not believe), they cannot change with respect to the zero element. That's what is at issue here.

This proves that the zero element is nothing, and must always remain zero! This proves that 0 + 0 = 0! Everywhere! This proves, like i said in my last post, that the world could not have come out of the zero element, and something had to cause it.

mazaje:


On what basis did you come to the conclusion that something caused the universe? How do you know that the universe is not eternal and uncreated

Deep Sight:

Mantraa - you are getting brilliant!!!! But -

We know that the Universe is not eternal because it is expanding. That much is verified. Since it is expanding, if you follow the process backward you will find that you will see a smaller and smaller universe until you arrive at a point in the distant past where it was nothing more than a single point. So there - it started at some point - and this reasoning remains intact even if applied to the existence of any other universes. Nevertheless, since the existence of other Universes will at this point be speculation, let us confine our discussion to this universe, which we are certain had a beginning. You see, the continuous expansion of the universe is what led some scientists to initiate the big bang theory - because at some point. that expansion must have started. And the whole point of my 0 + 0 = 0 equation is to prove that it could not have started out of nothing - that something started it.

huxley:


By the way, what is the differencr betwen the following equations?

1) 0 + 1 = 1

and

2) 1 = 1

Deep Sight:

There is no difference!!! Look at the equations carefully and understanding will come: it simply shows that 1 cannot be produced by zero and that is the first plank of my thesis.

Jagoon:

@mazaje
If as intelligent and knowledgeable we humans popurtably are we can not comprehend the make up of this planet talkless of the universe, it only makes sense it was put together by a far more intelligent being [God] as it is quite evident given the complexity of everything that exists, there must be an infinitely advanced designer/maker aka creator.

Deep Sight:

Mantraa - you are getting brilliant!!!! But -

We know that the Universe is not eternal because it is expanding. That much is verified. Since it is expanding, if you follow the process backward you will find that you will see a smaller and smaller universe until you arrive at a point in the distant past where it was nothing more than a single point. So there - it started at some point - and this reasoning remains intact even if applied to the existence of any other universes. Nevertheless, since the existence of other Universes will at this point be speculation, let us confine our discussion to this universe, which we are certain had a beginning. You see, the continuous expansion of the universe is what led some scientists to initiate the big bang theory - because at some point. that expansion must have started. And the whole point of my 0 + 0 = 0 equation is to prove that it could not have started out of nothing - that something started it.

huxley:

Whoever said the universe started out of nothing?  Can you show any reputable scientific source that says that?   As far as I know, currently scientific findings only says that the present universe was created out of a singularity.   The singularity is NOT nothing, or is not no thing.   PLEASE, please, note the difference and go educate yourself on the scientific data first.

huxley:

If that is the case, why did you start your argument with 0 + 1 = 1 ? Why did you not start with 1 = 1, or A = A? Are you familiar with Ockam's razor? Why introduce extrenous elements when they are not necessary?

Krayola2:

Too many leaps in this argument. we can't accept shit that doesn't make sense. What u think this is, the village square?  

U can't prove shit. .  scientists and all sorts of nerds have tried for centuries. . . it ain't gonna happen.

want proof that God, if he does exist, does not give a flyin fukc about us?  look at all em starvin kids dyin of kwashiokor.

If God exists and i ever catch him I'll spit on him for lettin those kids have to live in his messed up creation. Incompetent asshole that he is!!

Deep Sight:

I agree with you!!! I did not state that any scientist has stated that the universe started from nothing. Slow down, and you will understand my basic premises. We cannot jump too far ahead in a discussion of this nature or we will easily get lost.

I did indicate that this is a very profound discussion which needs to be taken step by step.

We both agree that the universe did not come out of nothing - very good! We will take it step by step from there.

I started it from zero, because you may not be aware that some persons would go so far as to contest that and state that it could have come from nothing. Like i said, we are building a pyramid here, every block has to be in place, dont worry, its 1 careful step at a time