shadeyinka:
How do you explain the "dramas" that take place in the course of deliverances? Acting?, Hypnosis? I suggest you watch some cases on TV and truely unbiasedly explain the phenomenon.

I appreciate your responses. Stay blessd.

You mean how does one explain this??

How do you explain it without laughing or shaking your head in embarrassment?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHAOnMeZNOI

plaetton:


Epic sir, epic indeed.

Africans are people who are always afraid of their own shadows.
Demons follow them everywhere, to school, to sleep, , at work, while driving, even abroad .

Like you implied, blue-eye Gizzos is conveniently positioned to save blind and lost Africans from their own shadows.

Pathetic indeed.

"

TrajansKong:

Here is the issue.

Because we believe in demons, spirits and curses, a huge number of African descent men are massively insecure in their sexual orientation. Like shadeyinka, legions of us understand the world and our identities through the notion of 'possession'. We can never be our own people.'Demons' of murder, theft and gay ish can control us unless we submit to the white Chizoss spirit who alone has the power to free us. We can never have our own sense of self because the idea of self possession is alien, even hostile, to many of our cultures.

We don't know who we are and we don't want to.

Thus a great many of our young men waste their time engaged in the utterly irrelevant focus on battymanism.
The rest of humanity rightly laughs at us, my people.

I weep."

Hi
You and TrajansKong are basically saying the same things with different words. It is WRONG to associate every problem and circumstance with Demons. A person with this kind of view is practically myopic in his understanding of both the Physical and Spiritual laws and environments.

Just as every body weakness cannot be associated with parasites (it could be from malnutrition, exhaution, stress or tiredness). Only a person who is stupidly gullible will ascribe ALL psychological, physiological or social problems to demons. Humans have independent minds with or without demonic influences.

Your position in reality is indirectly concluding technically that the concept of right or wrong does not exist...and that any one could do anythingbas long as he/she does not hurt others.

If that is true, should we OK Beastiality as an alternate way of life? Should we justify carnibalism if murder or crime was not involved? If tomorow "the Western World" justify nudity (stark unclothedness) would we sheepishly follow it because some scientists somewhere supported it?

Homosexualism is a disease that needs treatment just like Anorexia, Kleptomania, Paedophilia, Hydrophobia etc. The disease is not Pathological but Psychological. Let's not justify stupidity because some oyinbos agree among themselves that it should be part of their expression of modernization.

shadeyinka:


I understand you quite well but the truth is that every experimental research starts with one or more hypothesis. When the hypothesis are verified it is called a theory band when the theory is not easily reduced to smaller entities, it is called a law. Suppose I have a hunch that the earth is not perfectly round, thatbforms the basis of my hypothesis. The next thing is to find supporting evidence to that effect AND proof that the current position that the earth is perfectly round is disproved. Every scientific investigation starts with a bias and NEVER a blank mind.

I have just proved that every scientist starts with a hypothesis: a hypothesis is a biased position waiting to be proved or disproved.

I think this was my inability to explain clearly what i meant,When i meant "blank mind", i meant a preconceived supernatural explanation for the phenomena being investigated. Scientists always start with and end with Naturalistic explanations.

Ofcourse i know they start with an hypothesis, Lol, what i meant was a supernatural bias is not allowed because it is "supernatural" and unverifiable.

I also wished you could think in terms of where the Energies that condensed into the known universe came from. Atba point in the very distant time, total energy in the universe must be zero. If this energy is not zero, then, it must have a source: for every type of known energy has source.

Funny enough, there has been a debate about this same topic, Michio Kaku and brian greene are two string-theory physicists who confirms that if you were to add all the energy in the universe, you would get zero, positive energy with negative energy(which is gravity). i watched the video one time like that, i can get the link, i would paste it for you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6XAkVA7RmY

In terms your analogy of employee, employees do not exist because a suitable office is available. Office exist because employees are required. Every invention occurs to solve the problem of the primary user, not the other way round. The earth was an invention to solve the problems of the primary user: human beings.

My first analogy was explaining how you think the world is to us, i was refuting that idea and saying NO, the earth is not like an office created for its employees, rather the earth is to us,like a gutter is to a tadpole, it wasnt created for it, but it is necessary for its survive.

Although, like " somepeople" their conclusion is that it is impossible simply because they have never experienced it. In weightlessness, the physical laws as we know it on earth is violated.

@bolded, Physical laws are not violated, they just happen in ways that are unfamiliar to us!

From your frame of reference, spirits do not exist...let's play a little experiment game. Let's assume that spirits exist and demons are a malevolent class of spirits who can communicate with peoples mind, would you say that my explanation in my earlier post makes sense.

Of course, it only doesn't make sense to you because your premise is : Spirits do not exist. How do you explain the "dramas" that take place in the course of deliverances? Acting?, Hypnosis? I suggest you watch some cases on TV and truely unbiasedly explain the phenomenon.

I appreciate your responses. Stay blessd.

Ofcourse, i have seen deliverance happen right in my front, my mom is a deliverance minister(the irony of it,right?!, lol), but nothing and i repeat nothing happens that can be regarded as supernatural, people say lots of things, yes, and they act in weird ways, yes, but nothing happens to be regarded as supernatural. So except i take their word for it, i cant say they have any supernatural powers, and i have every reason to believe that they could be lying or just mentally deranged.

I do appreciate your responses too, quite intelligent and polite, i respect that, keep up the good work...

shadeyinka:



Homosexualism is a disease that needs treatment just like Anorexia, Kleptomania, Paedophilia, Hydrophobia etc. The disease is not Pathological but Psychological. Let's not justify stupidity because some oyinbos agree among themselves that it should be part of their expression of modernization.

First of all, there is no such thing as homosexualism. I am sure you meant homosexuality.

Secondly, what is your definition of a disease ? Is left-handedness also disease?
Cam we say that left-handedness and kleptomania are in the same category of abnormalities?

My point here is that a person born of a condition THAT DOES NO HARM, NO PAIN to him/ herself NOR to the SOCIETY cannot be considered a diseased person.

That you dislike or are disgusted with homosexuality does not make it a disease,.. especially considering that they tend to be happier (gay), more creative than you.

Infact, a good case can be made that YOU, who harbor a morbid fear of something that doesn't negatively affect you in any way, are more fit to be labelled " psychologically DISEASED" than a happy homosexual.

And when homophobia is rooted on religious faith , it becomes the case of the pot calling the kettle" black".

plaetton:
Infact, a good case can be made that YOU, who harbor a morbid fear of something that doesn't negatively affect you in any way, are more fit to be labelled " psychologically DISEASED" than a happy homosexual.

This point^^.

Why the concern, shadeyinka?

Why the obsession with something that cannot harm you? Where is your rage against violence against women that is endemic in our cultures?

All that aside, it has been interesting reading what you have to say (apart from your faith in TB Joshua tv deliverances ) and I've learned a few things about scientific method.

c3503521:




Jesus!
Loki!
FSM!

Dear 5000+ gods of this universe,
of which their followers believe in talking snakes and donkeys, stars falling out of the sky, hell fire being hotter than everlasting light and a million other nonsense but see homosexuality as abnormal;

May I never be affected by decaying and redundant brain cells!

Jesus! (TT)(TT)(TT)(TT)(TT)(TT)
This ignorance is too much.

P.S This isn't ad hominem. Google is your friend.
Please do research on homosexuality in animals beforehand.
I'm not gonna counter debate your arguments because of the backfire effect.
Not that it would even be worth it.
It's a real pain, there are bigger problems in this world, poverty, refugees, famine e.t.c
Yet this was your muse?
Scientists are working day and night to ensure better lives for humans...
And you're here, arguing what goes up a person's butt?
Please don't be existence wasted.

Hi
Thanks for coming into the picture. My argument have not been strictly from spiritual point of view. I have just tried to be objective as a scientist and a spiritual man.

If you can scientifically prove that the following are BORN and not made, then you can easily prove that a homosexual is Born and not made.( Anorexia, Kleptomania, Phobia, Paedophilia, Psychopathy, etc all the same family of ailments. Are these all not acquired based on our exposures and experience?

There are several cultures with not a single historical record of Homosexuality eg. Yoruba, maybe IBO culture. They do not even have words for it..in their local language. However, now because of exposures to the western world we now have several men and women, guys and young girls from these cultures who are homosexuals. If people were born homosexuals, every culture must as a necessity have local words for the behaviour.

I am a physicist and I know that not everything we do has a physical explanation. We accept somethings without expecting to know why the seemingly impossibility seems possible.

Example: we have a theory called wave-particle duality of matter. Simplified, it means that matter(solids, liquids & gases)- things that are tangible are transmutable into energy(capacity to do work- waves, heat, electricity etc) and vise vassal. In quantum physics for instance, the probability that I can jump through a solid wall is not zero i.e. if the condition is right, everything is possible.

The difference between me and you is simply that you look at things ONLY from the PHYSICAL frame of reference. I STRONGLY believe that other frames of reference exist in addition to the Physical (SPIRITUAL inclusive).

You know they say, experience is the best Teacher. My understanding of the spiritual is not from speculation. From my spiritual frame of reference, understandably you are completely naive. It is impossible to explain everything purely from the Physical frame of reference if indeed you want to scientifically and unbiasedly look at things. An example is NDE phenomenon.

shadeyinka:


Hi
Thanks for coming into the picture. My argument have not been strictly from spiritual point of view. I have just tried to be objective as a scientist and a spiritual man.

If you can scientifically prove that the following are BORN and not made, then you can easily prove that a homosexual is Born and not made.( Anorexia, Kleptomania, Phobia, Paedophilia, Psychopathy, etc all the same family of ailments. Are these all not acquired based on our exposures and experience?

There are several cultures with not a single historical record of Homosexuality eg. Yoruba, maybe IBO culture. They do not even have words for it..in their local language. However, now because of exposures to the western world we now have several men and women, guys and young girls from these cultures who are homosexuals. If people were born homosexuals, every culture must as a necessity have local words for the behaviour.

I am a physicist and I know that not everything we do has a physical explanation. We accept somethings without expecting to know why the seemingly impossibility seems possible.

Example: we have a theory called wave-particle duality of matter. Simplified, it means that matter(solids, liquids & gases)- things that are tangible are transmutable into energy(capacity to do work- waves, heat, electricity etc) and vise vassal. In quantum physics for instance, the probability that I can jump through a solid wall is not zero i.e. if the condition is right, everything is possible.

The difference between me and you is simply that you look at things ONLY from the PHYSICAL frame of reference. I STRONGLY believe that other frames of reference exist in addition to the Physical (SPIRITUAL inclusive).

You know they say, experience is the best Teacher. My understanding of the spiritual is not from speculation. From my spiritual frame of reference, understandably you are completely naive. It is impossible to explain everything purely from the Physical frame of reference if indeed you want to scientifically and unbiasedly look at things. An example is NDE phenomenon.

You keep up blabbing about anorexia, kleptomania, pedophilia, etc being diseases.
Yes they certainly are. They are diseases that cause pain to the victims and the society at large.

But you refused to answer my question whether left-handedness is also a disease.
Is it ?
Pls answer.
If yes, tell us why you think so.
If no, pls also tell us why you don't think so.

In the remote past, European whites once considered black skin a disease. Infact, go back to South Africa 30yrs ago.

TrajansKong:


You mean how does one explain this??

How do you explain it without laughing or shaking your head in embarrassment?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dHAOnMeZNOI

You did not answer the question other than stating your personal feeling about what is happening. So, could it be that those being delivered have been paid to act, they or obviously uneducated folks who have been convinced to say the gibbrish. I just ask for a speculation of matter what you think is happening.

TrajansKong:


This point^^.

Why the concern, shadeyinka?

Why the obsession with something that cannot harm you? Where is your rage against violence against women that is endemic in our cultures?

All that aside, it has been interesting reading what you have to say (apart from your faith in TB Joshua tv deliverances ) and I've learned a few things about scientific method.

I have enjoyed communicating with you on this issue. Certainly, I have no obsession to the topic. It was my hypothesis supported with a question to Nairalanders.

I respect ALL the guys on this post. You are greatly matured. I wish all discussions in Nairaland can be like this.

I am sure we probably have not changed our positions but we have learnt one or two things from each other and most of all know that both positions have some seriously valid aguements.

plaetton:


First of all, there is no such thing as homosexualism. I am sure you meant homosexuality.

Secondly, what is your definition of a disease ? Is left-handedness also disease?
Cam we say that left-handedness and kleptomania are in the same category of abnormalities?

My point here is that a person born of a condition THAT DOES NO HARM, NO PAIN to him/ herself NOR to the SOCIETY cannot be considered a diseased person.

That you dislike or are disgusted with homosexuality does not make it a disease,.. especially considering that they tend to be happier (gay), more creative than you.

Infact, a good case can be made that YOU, who harbor a morbid fear of something that doesn't negatively affect you in any way, are more fit to be labelled " psychologically DISEASED" than a happy homosexual.

And when homophobia is rooted on religious faith , it becomes the case of the pot calling the kettle" black".

Even though I do not agree with your point. Yes I may be repulsed by the practice of homosexuality... but its not because of homophobia. I am sure with all your liberality, you are not in sync with beastiality even though, it doesn't affect directly negatively anyone.

I believe that we can rest this case. I have great respect for your position though..although non of you answered the posted question.

How can left-handed ness be a disease? You have two eyes, two arms and two legs. By genetics, they cannot have equal "power". ..even the optician will confirm this. What usually determines which preference of hands we end up using is a function of so many things like (conscious or unconscious trainings by your mum, the society etc), comfort of use of effort, constraints etc.

The factors are however mainly by societal push. Most Yoruba's use the right hand because of cultural and social values placed on the right hand..the left hand is supposed to be used for the dirty things etc. However, most Briton's seem to use the left hand...there, there is NO equivalent cultural pressures to compel the use of the right hand

donnffd:


I think this was my inability to explain clearly what i meant,When i meant "blank mind", i meant a preconceived supernatural explanation for the phenomena being investigated. Scientists always start with and end with Naturalistic explanations.

Ofcourse i know they start with an hypothesis, Lol, what i meant was a supernatural bias is not allowed because it is "supernatural" and unverifiable.

Donnffd, I understand you and the point noted.

donnffd:

Funny enough, there has been a debate about this same topic, Michio Kaku and brian greene are two string-theory physicists who confirms that if you were to add all the energy in the universe, you would get zero, positive energy with negative energy(which is gravity). i watched the video one time like that, i can get the link, i would paste it for you.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6XAkVA7RmY




My first analogy was explaining how you think the world is to us, i was refuting that idea and saying NO, the earth is not like an office created for its employees, rather the earth is to us,like a gutter is to a tadpole, it wasnt created for it, but it is necessary for its survive.

Yes, the argument usually goes like:
If energy of the universe is not zero, where is the source/energy generator.

If the energy was zero, how did it get separated into "matter and antimatter". (It actually takes energy to separate move energy)

Either way, it is an endless argument because science ordinarily precludes that God doesn't exist.

Theists say, it is still possible to study science as understanding those things created by God and seeing how they could be exploited for mans benefit.

Atheistic scientists are still searching for an explanation which by today's knowledge is impossible.

donnffd:

@bolded, Physical laws are not violated, they just happen in ways that are unfamiliar to us!

Sorry, Physical laws are not violated you are correct. I meant as the " common man perceives it on earth"

donnffd:

Ofcourse, i have seen deliverance happen right in my front, my mom is a deliverance minister(the irony of it,right?!, lol), but nothing and i repeat nothing happens that can be regarded as supernatural, people say lots of things, yes, and they act in weird ways, yes, but nothing happens to be regarded as supernatural. So except i take their word for it, i cant say they have any supernatural powers, and i have every reason to believe that they could be lying or just mentally deranged.

My Guy, this is the main gist. Your mum, a deliverance minister? Then, I prophesy to you, you will meet this Jesus!AMEN! ..... I see you LOL and almost rolling on the floor. Of course, they could not all be mentally deranged.

So, why do you hate God that much? Could it be because of the massive hypocrisy you see in churches and many Christians? Something's pissed you off...

The supernatural doesn't have to be spectacular. The supernatural is an explanation of the Beezer and unexplainables from another (alternate) dimension.

You say

donnffd:

..., but nothing and i repeat nothing happens that can be regarded as supernatural, people say lots of things, yes, and they act in weird ways, yes, but nothing happens to be regarded as supernatural.

....but you do not have an explanation to the weired behaviours. I guess, your mind is closed up to anyothe reasoning even though you know deep down that something weird is happening. That weird behaviour are demons manifesting over a persons personality.

Let me post an NDE experience of someone with your kind of disposition to you .


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UPj4wci_bcI

Check YouTube, more of NDEs


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2aDXo6Vsa8

I wish I could bombard you with so much paranormal activities so that you may reconsider.

I love the fact that you read. I hope to meet more educated Nairalanders. Even though my position hasn't changed, and I am sure yours too has not changed, we have learnt from each other. If you happen to post anything of interest, pls copy me.

NB. I also do not mind you asking me any question about Christianity, Salvation, Christ and the spiritual. To the best of my understanding, I will try and do justice to the issues.

My Respect to you Sir!

shadeyinka:


Even though I do not agree with your point. Yes I may be repulsed by the practice of homosexuality... but its not because of homophobia. I am sure with all your liberality, you are not in sync with beastiality even though, it doesn't affect directly negatively anyone.

I believe that we can rest this case. I have great respect for your position though..although non of you answered the posted question.

How can left-handed ness be a disease? You have two eyes, two arms and two legs. By genetics, they cannot have equal "power". ..even the optician will confirm this. What usually determines which preference of hands we end up using is a function of so many things like (conscious or unconscious trainings by your mum, the society etc), comfort of use of effort, constraints etc.

The factors are however mainly by societal push. Most Yoruba's use the right hand because of cultural and social values placed on the right hand..the left hand is supposed to be used for the dirty things etc. However, most Briton's seem to use the left hand...there, there is NO equivalent cultural pressures to compel the use of the right hand

I think left handedness and homosexuality is the same thing in terms of being different. Both are minorities and are susceptible to victimisation. I recall, after studying about left handedness , I told a left hander that he was normal. This kid looked at me with surprise and gladness. Obviously, everyone around him had been telling him he was rude and uncultured for using left hand.
People don't easily accept different ideas. They see it as abnormal and feel threatened by it. This is why there will always be conflict and segregation. Even men are women are yet to come to terms with the fact that they are actually different. Men want women to see the world from their own point of view and vice versa.
But why so much controversy on homosexuality? Why not the same attention on left handedness?
Because Homosexuality has to do with sex. Something that requires intimacy and emotions. Sex is a very controversial issue. Even the 'normal' sex between a man and a woman has unsettled issues like... should a man have more than one woman? Should unmarried people have sex? Should we discussed with kids? Is MouthAction between couples okay? Should a woman dress sexy?
The fact is that once u are emotional about something (as we all are with sex) you will easily find a different approach towards that thing repulsive.
Honestly, just like you, I find homosexual act between men quite repulsive. But i have, over the years, tried to see the world from their own point of view. I have met very wonderful gays just like I have met rude ones. Yes some of them are just hostile probably because they unconsciously see the world, that is always against them, as a war zone. We are making them monsters. But I work hard not to get emotional with them and think they are possessed or evil.
But... what about kleptomaniacs, and child molesters... after so much processing, it's being realized that homosexuals hurt no one. We as humans are only trying to make sense of our world. The kleptomaniac even feels bad and guilty for his actions, the child molester hurts his victim, but the straight person and homosexual and left hander hurts no one... why can't we let them be.
Calling them demonic is wickedness, it's like labeling people who are different witches.
Deal with it bro... people will always be different in a fast changing world like ours... we have to get used to it just as long as they don't hurt us.
Yet I have my fears... how do we deal with incest and beastility... well, I think the world has bigger problems than these... we can deal with that later, lets concentrate of terrorism for now.

frank317:


I think left handedness and homosexuality is the same thing in terms of being different. Both are minorities and are susceptible to victimisation. I recall, after studying about left handedness , I told a left hander that he was normal. This kid looked at me with surprise and gladness. Obviously, everyone around him had been telling him he was rude and uncultured for using left hand.
People don't easily accept different ideas. They see it as abnormal and feel threatened by it. This is why there will always be conflict and segregation. Even men are women are yet to come to terms with the fact that they are actually different. Men want women to see the world from their own point of view and vice versa.
But why so much controversy on homosexuality? Why not the same attention on left handedness?
Because Homosexuality has to do with sex. Something that requires intimacy and emotions. Sex is a very controversial issue. Even the 'normal' sex between a man and a woman has unsettled issues like... should a man have more than one woman? Should unmarried people have sex? Should we discussed with kids? Is MouthAction between couples okay? Should a woman dress sexy?
The fact is that once u are emotional about something (as we all are with sex) you will easily find a different approach towards that thing repulsive.
Honestly, just like you, I find homosexual act between men quite repulsive. But i have, over the years, tried to see the world from their own point of view. I have met very wonderful gays just like I have met rude ones. Yes some of them are just hostile probably because they unconsciously see the world, that is always against them, as a war zone. We are making them monsters. But I work hard not to get emotional with them and think they are possessed or evil.
But... what about kleptomaniacs, and child molesters... after so much processing, it's being realized that homosexuals hurt no one. We as humans are only trying to make sense of our world. The kleptomaniac even feels bad and guilty for his actions, the child molester hurts his victim, but the straight person and homosexual and left hander hurts no one... why can't we let them be.
Calling them demonic is wickedness, it's like labeling people who are different witches.
Deal with it bro... people will always be different in a fast changing world like ours... we have to get used to it just as long as they don't hurt us.
Yet I have my fears... how do we deal with incest and beastility... well, I think the world has bigger problems than these... we can deal with that later, lets concentrate of terrorism for now.

I did not call homosexuals demonic. I said they are demonized which interpreted means that they are infected with homosexual pathogens (which of course is spiritual).

Heterosexual s are not free from being demonized everyone has their own spiritual problems.

Left handedness is unlike homosexuality. Homosexuality to me is more like alcoholism. No one is born an alcoholic, web develop a taste for alcohol.

I apologize to those who drink its not my intention to hack them down. One can drink without necessarily being an alcoholic. Hot drinks , gins and Beer taste not too fine in the mouth. But for those who drink, they have great taste. Every human being learn the "taste" of enjoyment. Homosexuality is a learnt way of life. We may not have equal doses of testosterone oroestrogen and progesterone in our system (sex hormones) yet nature has cast us either as males or females.

The point is unless we can show that homosexuals have an abnormal level of the sex hormones, they need to go for treatment.

Also, I have seen homosexual demons being cast out of people. Experience they say is the best teacher.
Should we legalise Beastiality? It hurts no one.!

shadeyinka:



I did not call homosexuals demonic. I said they are demonized which interpreted means that they are infected with homosexual pathogens (which of course is spiritual).

This whole spirituality thingy is a haux. What is spiritual? How does it operate? How does it chose people to possess? Why does it possess some people with homosexuality and not others?
Even if we accept that Homosexuality is a disorder or a disease is malaria not a disease? Why call it spiritual just because u find it repulsive. Have u even thought of these people? Have u ever spoken to them to find out how abnormal they are?

Heterosexual s are not free from being demonized everyone has their own spiritual problems.

Pls give us details on how spirits operates otherwise , do not mention it again. Have u been affected by spirits before ? What are the symptoms?

Left handedness is unlike homosexuality. Homosexuality to me is more like alcoholism. No one is born an alcoholic, web develop a taste for alcohol.

I apologize to those who drink its not my intention to hack them down. One can drink without necessarily being an alcoholic. Hot drinks , gins and Beer taste not too fine in the mouth. But for those who drink, they have great taste. Every human being learn the "taste" of enjoyment. Homosexuality is a learnt way of life. We may not have equal doses of testosterone oroestrogen and progesterone in our system (sex hormones) yet nature has cast us either as males or females.

Ok... so u think supposedly straight people learn to be gay? Do they also learn to hate being straight? U can't just classify any behaviour you don't like under one umbrella. Do you even know why people like alcohol? Besides alcoholism is an addiction... do you think homosexuality is an addiction?

The point is unless we can show that homosexuals have an abnormal level of the sex hormones, they need to go for treatment.

And that treatment is prayer I guess. Meanwhile did any of them complain? Rather they are complaining that they are being marginalised. They want people like u to leave them alone. How have their disease hurt anyone? Why should we treat them?

Also, I have seen homosexual demons being cast out of people. Experience they say is the best teacher.
Should we legalise Beastiality? It hurts no one.!

Lol...so how did the demon look like when it was caste out?
People who practice beastility are abnormal and they know it. Do they function normally like gay people? Show me one who loves an animal and I will show u a mad man whose thinking is completely skewed.

So sorry I couldn't reply you earlier than this

frank317:


This whole spirituality thingy is a haux. What is spiritual? How does it operate? How does it chose people to possess? Why does it possess some people with homosexuality and not others?

If all paranornals are hoax, then the spiritual is a hoax. I have met a Professor who believes that HIV and AIDS are not real...the fact that he does not believe does not change the truth. But to answer your question, demons are spiritual equivalence of disease causing pathogens. Do you know that there are people who are relatively immune to infections even when exposed? There are cases where one partner in a marriage union is having HIV and the partner is free. There are cases where a person living with HIV never develops AIDS even when he is not on any anti retroviral drug. So also in the spirit. Infection is not automatic.

frank317:

Even if we accept that Homosexuality is a disorder or a disease is malaria not a disease? Why call it spiritual just because u find it repulsive. Have u even thought of these people? Have u ever spoken to them to find out how abnormal they are?

I have interacted with a few of them and I can tell you that apart of that aiment, they look normal, act normal and a few are even financially well off. Just as, a person could be kleptomaniac, Schizophreniac, Epileptic, Nynmphomaniac and still function relatively normal in the society. I saw a man on TV who eats Feaces like food. Sometimes, he even goes to public toilets to pack and eat shit. He looks very normal, he even has a wife in Europe (a Nigerian married to a white woman). My argument is that a spiritually sick person does not have to look crazy.

frank317:

Pls give us details on how spirits operates otherwise , do not mention it again. Have u been affected by spirits before ? What are the symptoms?

Of course I have been afflicted before...I will not go into details. My case (infection) was not at the level of the soul it was at the level of my environment before I was delivered by Jesus. Your question is like, saying " have you been infected by a pathogen before? What are the symptoms?". Can't you see that it varies: malaria, Ezema, flu, rashes, diarrhea, ringworm, .....endless

frank317:

Ok... so u think supposedly straight people learn to be gay? Do they also learn to hate being straight? U can't just classify any behaviour you don't like under one umbrella. Do you even know why people like alcohol? Besides alcoholism is an addiction... do you think homosexuality is an addiction?

Interestingly, sex is addictive and like a hard drug. You keep on going for it again and again. I spoke of the fact that in our cultural background, homosexuality seem not to exist. However, because of western influences and other kinds of exposures it now exist amongst us. Homosexuality is like an addiction to having sexual craving for people of the same sex. A masculine homosexual is looking for a feminine homosexual and vise vassal. Don't you know that most of them have a preference? Some like being effeminate while others like being masculine with their partners. This role reversal show that they know that they are acting roles which do not belong to them.

frank317:

And that treatment is prayer I guess. Meanwhile did any of them complain? Rather they are complaining that they are being marginalised. They want people like u to leave them alone. How have their disease hurt anyone? Why should we treat them?

Since homosexuals are "technically" in a sterile union, should they adopt children. Who will then be the Daddy or who will be the Mummy? Most Mad/ Crazy people on our streets do no harm to anyone. Can we not also make a case for their condition. " They were Born Mad", therefore they should be left alone to practice their madnesses. Hmn...

frank317:

Lol...so how did the demon look like when it was caste out?
People who practice beastility are abnormal and they know it. Do they function normally like gay people? Show me one who loves an animal and I will show u a mad man whose thinking is completely skewed.

I am surprised you are not making a case for those who practice beastiality. Were they not born that way? Should their sexual preference not be respected? Hey man, those who practice beastiality may even be vegetarians and animal lovers. Should you blame the man who gets sexually turned on by a donkey?

[quote author=shadeyinka post=47609880]So sorry I couldn't reply you earlier than this



If all paranornals are hoax, then the spiritual is a hoax. I have met a Professor who believes that HIV and AIDS are not real...the fact that he does not believe does not change the truth. But to answer your question, demons are spiritual equivalence of disease causing pathogens. Do you know that there are people who are relatively immune to infections even when exposed? There are cases where one partner in a marriage union is having HIV and the partner is free. There are cases where a person living with HIV never develops AIDS even when he is not on any anti retroviral drug. So also in the spirit. Infection is not automatic.

I am sure if someone explain to the professor how HIV operates, how and why people get infected, what it does to the body, he will have a change if mind. If after explanation he does not still accept it exists, he can be take to a lab and a blood sample of a HIV patient can be used to show him the virus. There is also a good explanation why one person could be immune to HIV ... can u do all that to demon? Really I have never been able to grasp this demon thingy... the concept it's always spatial and void to me , just like the concept of God. It's just like saying that a green/red stone kills people without showing them this stone .


[quote]
I have interacted with a few of them and I can tell you that apart of that aiment, they look normal, act normal and a few are even financially well off. Just as, a person could be kleptomaniac, Schizophreniac, Epileptic, Nynmphomaniac and still function relatively normal in the society. I saw a man on TV who eats Feaces like food. Sometimes, he even goes to public toilets to pack and eat shit. He looks very normal, he even has a wife in Europe (a Nigerian married to a white woman). My argument is that a spiritually sick person does not have to look crazy.

That someone acts abnormal does not mean he has spiritual problem. I will not believe it if I can't grasp just like I earlier explained. Till you make me grasp this spiritual thingy ... how does it look ? Why are some people immune to it and others are not? Where does it live outside the body... someone who is mentally ill does not have to look crazy .

Of course I have been afflicted before...I will not go into details. My case (infection) was not at the level of the soul it was at the level of my environment before I was delivered by Jesus. Your question is like, saying " have you been infected by a pathogen before? What are the symptoms?". Can't you see that it varies: malaria, Ezema, flu, rashes, diarrhea, ringworm, .....endless

Still don't know what u are talking about.

Interestingly, sex is addictive and like a hard drug. You keep on going for it again and again. I spoke of the fact that in our cultural background, homosexuality seem not to exist. However, because of western influences and other kinds of exposures it now exist amongst us. Homosexuality is like an addiction to having sexual craving for people of the same sex. A masculine homosexual is looking for a feminine homosexual and vise vassal. Don't you know that most of them have a preference? Some like being effeminate while others like being masculine with their partners. This role reversal show that they know that they are acting roles which do not belong to them.

Sir... pls stop saying things just to prove a point... homosexuality is not an addiction. Its a preference. This is where u get it all wrong. Like I said, because u dislike something does not mean you should build a false belief around it. Take some time out, read about it, talk to them, ask why? Instead of sitting in the comfort of your home and demonizing them just because you find the idea repulsive.

Since homosexuals are "technically" in a sterile union, should they adopt children. Who will then be the Daddy or who will be the Mummy? Most Mad/ Crazy people on our streets do no harm to anyone. Can we not also make a case for their condition. " They were Born Mad", therefore they should be left alone to practice their madnesses. Hmn...

I support u on the child adoption thing. That's hypocritic of them... why should they desire to have another person's child when they have decided to accept they will not have a child of theirs? I would advocate that children should remain with straight people while homosexuals should be happy being childless.
Do mad people function normally?

I am surprised you are not making a case for those who practice beastiality. Were they not born that way? Should their sexual preference not be respected? Hey man, those who practice beastiality may even be vegetarians and animal lovers. Should you blame the man who gets sexually turned on by a donkey?

Just as I am surprised you think left handers are normal, ain't they born different?
They way people are born is not the problem here... how dies their different inborn preferences affect their day to day living? Show me someone who practice beastility and I will show you a completely abnormal person. But homosexuals are absolutely normal. This was what was considered before it was thought to be legalised.

Putting some things straight: I do not support discrimination, dehumanisation or I'll treating the homosexuals. They are human beings like you and me.

I feel however that they are "sick" not as in crazy...but they need help (maybe from a psychiatrist if youvare comfortable with that). Like a kleptomaniac should not be hated, he should be helped.

frank317:


I am sure if someone explain to the professor how HIV operates, how and why people get infected, what it does to the body, he will have a change if mind. If after explanation he does not still accept it exists, he can be take to a lab and a blood sample of a HIV patient can be used to show him the virus. There is also a good explanation why one person could be immune to HIV ... can u do all that to demon? Really I have never been able to grasp this demon thingy... the concept it's always spatial and void to me , just like the concept of God. It's just like saying that a green/red stone kills people without showing them this stone .

LOL...This prof is die hard, several people have argued the case with him to no avail. He believes in some conspiracy theory about HIV/AIDS.

Some people are die-hard skeptics. No amount of evidence will move them because their prejudices is based on deep rooted bias against the truth. This simply means that they do not care one bit about the truth. So also, many atheists. The only evidence they want is for one to drag a spirit into a lab..and with a knife, show everybody that spirits bleed therefore, they are alive.

The concept of God is easy to comprehend except if a person is biased against the Truth.
I have tried to explain it several times within this post...and for your sake, I will do it again.

Let's start from the origin of things.
1. At the beginning logic says that the universe was empty.
2. At the beginning logic says that the total energy in the universe is zero.
3. Consciousness, (Awareness and Identity ) is a concept that does not have a scientific explanation no matter how hard we try. This tells us that, the probability of having Rhelms where consciousness can be explained exist.

Theists say that this rhelm is the Spirit Rhelm
Atheist say there cannot be other rhelms other than the physical.

The questions below do not have any physical explanation
1. If the universe must of necessity, be empty how did it get populated?
2. If at the beginning, total energy in the universe is zero, how did energies emanate out of nothing?
3. How did conciseness evolve from chemical compounds.
4. The law of entropy violates any physical theory of to explain the origin of the universe for even the basic unit of an atom should not exist.

There are still more reasons to postulate that the probability of having other rhelms which influences the physical rhelm exist. Except, even though you do not have an alternative explanation, you insist that the obvious cannot be.

I am a Physicist by training, and I understand the weight of these statements. I have tried not to use the spiritual (Bible explanations) to explain this concept.

frank317:

That someone acts abnormal does not mean he has spiritual problem. I will not believe it if I can't grasp just like I earlier explained. Till you make me grasp this spiritual thingy ... how does it look ? Why are some people immune to it and others are not? Where does it live outside the body... someone who is mentally ill does not have to look crazy .
.

Of course I agree with you the fact that someone acts abnormal does not mean he has a spiritual problem. Why? All humans have a soul: I.e they have a volition- with or without demons they can choose the path of their actions. You still ask the same questions even though I have answered it. Why are some humans relatively immune to Ebola virus, HIV , Malaria Parasite... the same reasons apply in the spirit. Demons are spiritual equivalence of pathogen infections. I agree, someone who is mentally sick like the homosexuals do not have to look crazy.

frank317:

Still don't know what u are talking about.
.

Its your choice. You have the right to conclude on a matter irrespective of the TRUTH simply because you expect the truth to bend to your "misconceptions". Its like let's say I have concluded that the earth is Flat and no other explanation will satisfy me except if someone can WALK from a point in a straight line and return to that same point...you know the answer.

What kind of answer do you want? That spirits are yellow in colour? That they weigh 240kg? That they smell like garlic? That they radiate em energies? ....hope you get the point.

Honestly, I can only help you in this respect if I know the kind of evidence that will satisfy you..then I can prepare a suitable experiment to validate the rhelm of the spirit.

frank317:

Sir... pls stop saying things just to prove a point... homosexuality is not an addiction. Its a preference. This is where u get it all wrong. Like I said, because u dislike something does not mean you should build a false belief around it. Take some time out, read about it, talk to them, ask why? Instead of sitting in the comfort of your home and demonizing them just because you find the idea repulsive.
.

Sorry you misunderstood me. I am not saying that homosexuality is an addiction, I was only doing a mild comparism. However, if homosexuality is a PREFERENCE, then, it must by necessity be a CHOICE. If its a choice, then a homosexual is NOT born but Made.

I also feel that you see demonization in terms of POSSESSION. If you look carefully, I have not used that term. I have used the term DEMONIZED, INFECTED, AFLICTED. Demonic possession is not that common and is certainly not what you see in Horror Films.

frank317:

And that treatment is prayer I guess. Meanwhile did any of them complain? Rather they are complaining that they are being marginalised. They want people like u to leave them alone. How have their disease hurt anyone? Why should we treat them?
.

Fast forward 2089, people who have sex with animals are protesting that they are being marginalized with arguments that they were born that way; they are not hurting anyone; they even want it legalized to marry any animal of their choice. Scientist also come up with certain DNA strain that has been found to be common with these people.

By your argument, they should be left alone and not be descriminated upon. Should we not say to them, you are sick, go to a psychiatrist or who ever specialized in testing that kind of ailment? Have you heard about snuff films?....when it comes to human sexuality, the various choices we can make are extremely large.

frank317:

I support u on the child adoption thing. That's hypocritic of them... why should they desire to have another person's child when they have decided to accept they will not have a child of theirs? I would advocate that children should remain with straight people while homosexuals should be happy being childless.
Do mad people function normally?
.

Thank God we both agree on this, however even these will eventually become the norm in the next 40 years. Mad people functioning normally? It depends, madness is not either 0% or 100%. The gravity varies...and sometimes, it is triggered by events, situations or drugs. It can also be in loose terms temporal or permanent.

frank317:

Show me someone who practice beastility and I will show you a completely abnormal person. But homosexuals are absolutely normal.
.

I completely disagree with you on your first point. Many Fulani herdsmen are known to have practice beastiality with some of their animals...usually not out of preference...but it happens anyway. We will by all standards call them normal.

frank317:

This was what was considered before it was thought to be legalised.
.

That's my problem? The white man can never be wrong syndrome. Who are the the they? Are the they'd a majority or a minority with force of paper, pen and media? Except if you can say they the white man is alwise, then we can put the case to rest.



I may like and appreciate some gays but that does not mean that they do not need help

All humans were Born Fearless: However, asba result of our experiences, some of us become disposed to fear some of which are listed below:

FObject Phobia
air travel aerophobia
American people and things Americophobia
animals zoophobia
bacteria bacteriophobia
beards pogonophobia
beating mastigophobia
bed clinophobia
bees apiphobia
birds ornithophobia
blood haemophobia
blushing erythrophobia
body odour bromidrosiphobia
bridges gephyrophobia
bullets ballistophobia
burial alive taphephobia
cancer carcinophobia
cats ailurophobia
childbirth tocophobia
children paedophobia
Chinese people and things Sinophobia
church ecclesiophobia
clouds nephophobia
coitus coitophobia
cold cheimaphobia
colour chromophobia
comets cometophobia
computers cyberphobia
constipation coprostasophobia
corpses necrophobia
correspondence epistolophobia
crowds demophobia/ochlophobia
dampness hygrophobia
darkness scotophobia
dawn eosophobia
death thanatophobia
depth bathophobia
dirt mysophobia
disease pathophobia/nosophobia
dogs cynophobia
dreams oneirophobia
drink potophobia
drugs pharmacophobia
dust koniophobia
electricity electrophobia
enclosed places claustrophobia
English people and things Anglophobia
everything panophobia/pantophobia
eyes ommetaphobia
faeces coprophobia
failure kakorrhaphiaphobia
fatigue kopophobia
fear phobophobia
feathers pteronophobia
fever febriphobia
fire pyrophobia
fish ichthyophobia
flesh selaphobia
floods antlophobia
flowers anthophobia
fog homichlophobia
food cibophobia/sitophobia
foreigners xenophobia
freedom eleutherophobia
French people and things Francophobia/Gallophobia
fur doraphobia
German people and things Germanophobia/Teutophobia
germs bacteriophobia
ghosts phasmophobia
glass nelophobia
God theophobia
gold chrysophobia/aurophobia
hair trichophobia
heart disease cardiophobia
heat thermophobia
heaven uranophobia
hell hadephobia/stygiophobia
heredity patroiophobia
high buildings batophobia
high places acrophobia/hypsophobia
home oikophobia
homosexuals homophobia
horses hippophobia
ice cryophobia
ideas ideophobia
idleness thassophobia
illness nosophobia
imperfection atelophobia
infinity apeirophobia
injury traumatophobia
inoculation trypanophobia/vaccinophobia
insanity lyssophobia/maniphobia
insects entomophobia
insect stings cnidophobia
Italian people and things Italophobia
itching acarophobia
jealousy zelotypophobia
justice dikephobia
lakes limnophobia
leprosy leprophobia
lice pediculophobia
light photophobia
lightning astrapophobia
lists pinaciphobia/katastichophobia

http://blog.oxforddictionaries.com/2011/08/a-list-of-phobias-from-atelophobia-to-zelotypophobia/


Just as all phobias are functions of our experiences so also Homosexuality.

shadeyinka:
Putting some things straight: I do not support discrimination, dehumanisation or I'll treating the homosexuals. They are human beings like you and me.

I feel however that they are "sick" not as in crazy...but they need help (maybe from a psychiatrist if youvare comfortable with that). Like a kleptomaniac should not be hated, he should be helped.

Homosexuals don't need help... someone who is attracted to a same sex still lives a normal life. Help him with what really?

LOL...This prof is die hard, several people have argued the case with him to no avail. He believes in some conspiracy theory about HIV/AIDS.

Some people are die-hard skeptics. No amount of evidence will move them because their prejudices is based on deep rooted bias against the truth. This simply means that they do not care one bit about the truth. So also, many atheists. The only evidence they want is for one to drag a spirit into a lab..and with a knife, show everybody that spirits bleed therefore, they are alive.

Ya some people are like that definitely.
Why claim atheists are like that? What evidence did you show them? Is subjective experience a good evidence? How is asking for a lab test wrong? You didn't provide enough evidence, refused to do a lab test and you call atheists hard core skeptist?

The concept of God is easy to comprehend except if a person is biased against the Truth.
I have tried to explain it several times within this post...and for your sake, I will do it again.

Nope, the concept of God is not easy to comprehend if u are honest. Why then do we need faith to believe if it was easy? Do you need faith to call your father daddy? Why do people have different concepts of God if it's that easy?

Let's start from the origin of things.
1. At the beginning logic says that the universe was empty.
2. At the beginning logic says that the total energy in the universe is zero.
3. Consciousness, (Awareness and Identity ) is a concept that does not have a scientific explanation no matter how hard we try. This tells us that, the probability of having Rhelms where consciousness can be explained exist.

To me there is so much about the beginning of universe we don't know. Logic is only a reasonable explanation, we can go with it while we have nothing to prove otherwise.

Theists say that this rhelm is the Spirit Rhelm
Atheist say there cannot be other rhelms other than the physical.

There he goes again with spirit he cannot explain.

The questions below do not have any physical explanation
1. If the universe must of necessity, be empty how did it get populated?
2. If at the beginning, total energy in the universe is zero, how did energies emanate out of nothing?
3. How did conciseness evolve from chemical compounds.
4. The law of entropy violates any physical theory of to explain the origin of the universe for even the basic unit of an atom should not exist.

Ya right... they do not have physical explanation therefore we should just make up some spiritual mumbo jumbo and voila!!! There lies our answer.

There are still more reasons to postulate that the probability of having other rhelms which influences the physical rhelm exist. Except, even though you do not have an alternative explanation, you insist that the obvious cannot be.

Tell me something new, just don't fill in the gap with something u can't even comprehend .

I am a Physicist by training, and I understand the weight of these statements. I have tried not to use the spiritual (Bible explanations) to explain this concept.

Don't eve try, u will end up making a mess and mockery of your training.

Of course I agree with you the fact that someone acts abnormal does not mean he has a spiritual problem. Why? All humans have a soul: I.e they have a volition- with or without demons they can choose the path of their actions. You still ask the same questions even though I have answered it. Why are some humans relatively immune to Ebola virus, HIV , Malaria Parasite... the same reasons apply in the spirit. Demons are spiritual equivalence of pathogen infections. I agree, someone who is mentally sick like the homosexuals do not have to look crazy.

What is spirit, how do demons look? Where do they live ? Pls give me a more detailed explanation... I need something that would be easy for me to Grasp. if you can't do that, can u please let it go?

Its your choice. You have the right to conclude on a matter irrespective of the TRUTH simply because you expect the truth to bend to your "misconceptions". Its like let's say I have concluded that the earth is Flat and no other explanation will satisfy me except if someone can WALK from a point in a straight line and return to that same point...you know the answer.

Lol... just explain spiri spiri to me... you have not explained yet you claim to be an embodiment of truth. Lol

What kind of answer do you want? That spirits are yellow in colour? That they weigh 240kg? That they smell like garlic? That they radiate em energies? ....hope you get the point.

What kind of answer do u have... bring it on.

Honestly, I can only help you in this respect if I know the kind of evidence that will satisfy you..then I can prepare a suitable experiment to validate the rhelm of the spirit.

All I need is the kind of evidence you would ask of me if I tell you that a 'redgreenpurple cat-like mosquito' gives me food every morning. The concept of spirit sounds exactly like that to me.

Sorry you misunderstood me. I am not saying that homosexuality is an addiction, I was only doing a mild comparism. However, if homosexuality is a PREFERENCE, then, it must by necessity be a CHOICE. If its a choice, then a homosexual is NOT born but Made.

Some are born some are made... so? If they are ok with it why are u complaining? Are they not functioning normally ?

I also feel that you see demonization in terms of POSSESSION. If you look carefully, I have not used that term. I have used the term DEMONIZED, INFECTED, AFLICTED. Demonic possession is not that common and is certainly not what you see in Horror Films.

Pray tell... when someone is demonized, does it not mean he is possessed by demons... please help me here, I might learn something new.

Fast forward 2089, people who have sex with animals are protesting that they are being marginalized with arguments that they were born that way; they are not hurting anyone; they even want it legalized to marry any animal of their choice. Scientist also come up with certain DNA strain that has been found to be common with these people.

Of course that's possible. But for now, we have no reason to let them be. They do not function normally... do your research... I studied psychology and I know what I am talking about. Beastility is a mental disorder... people who do it are sick and they know it.

By your argument, they should be left alone and not be descriminated upon. Should we not say to them, you are sick, go to a psychiatrist or who ever specialized in testing that kind of ailment? Have you heard about snuff films?....when it comes to human sexuality, the various choices we can make are extremely large.

No, by my explanation, homosexuals are not sick and should be left alone.
Honestly, I find the act repulsive but that does not men they are sick, it's just a sexual preference.

Thank God we both agree on this, however even these will eventually become the norm in the next 40 years. Mad people functioning normally? It depends, madness is not either 0% or 100%. The gravity varies...and sometimes, it is triggered by events, situations or drugs. It can also be in loose terms temporal or permanent.

Mad people do not function normally... there is no argument here.

I completely disagree with you on your first point. Many Fulani herdsmen are known to have practice beastiality with some of their animals...usually not out of preference...but it happens anyway. We will by all standards call them normal.

Fulani people do not practice beastility... this is false. Of course the sick ones among them might do it and they know they are abnormal.

That's my problem? The white man can never be wrong syndrome. Who are the the they? Are the they'd a majority or a minority with force of paper, pen and media? Except if you can say they the white man is alwise, then we can put the case to rest.

What do you expect... they are busy doing research and trying to make sense of this world... while you... a physicist is busy calling what you don't understand and refuse to study spirit.

I may like and appreciate some gays but that does not mean that they do not need help

Lol.. help in what? Most of them are good at their work place, wonderful musicians and actors, political leaders... and you want to help them? Help the with what?

One of the best threads on Nairaland. @Op, you remind me of Ravi Zacharias a well respected apologetics.

Hi Bro, you know I never heard of him...Ravi Zacharias

jeebz:
One of the best threads on Nairaland.
@Op, you remind me of Ravi Zacharias a well respected apologetics.

I dug up some interesting things about him:
Zacharias states that a coherent worldview must be able to satisfactorily answer four questions: that of origin, meaning of life, morality and destiny. He says that while every major religion makes exclusive claims about truth, the Christian faith is unique in its ability to answer all four of these questions.[28] He routinely speaks on the coherence of the Christian worldview,[29] saying that Christianity is capable of withstanding the toughest philosophical attacks.[30] Zacharias believes that the apologist must argue from three levels: the theoretical, to line up the logic of the argument; the arts, to illustrate; and "kitchen table talk", to conclude and apply.[31] Zacharias' style of apologetic focuses predominantly on Christianity's answers to life's great existential questions,[32] with defense of God.

I dof my hat for the man. Kai, I wish I could be close to him in presenting Jesus, God the Father and the Spiritual in a logically clear manner.

Ravi Zacharias (born 26 March 1946) is an Indian-born Canadian-American Christian apologist. A defender of traditional evangelicalism,[1][2] Zacharias is the author of numerous Christian books, including the Gold Medallion Book Award winner Can Man Live Without God? in the category "theology and doctrine"[3] and Christian bestsellers Light in the Shadow of Jihad[4] and The Grand Weaver.[5] He is the founder and chairman of the board of Ravi Zacharias International Ministries, host of the radio programs Let My People Think and Just Thinking, and has been a visiting scholar at Ridley Hall, where he studied moralist philosophers and literature of the Romantic era, and has had six honorary doctoral degrees, including a Doctor of Laws and a Doctor of Sacred Theology[citation needed]. Zacharias held the chair in Evangelism and Contemporary Thought at Alliance Theological Seminary from 1981 to 1984.[6] Evangelical Christian leader Chuck Colson referred to Zacharias as "the great apologist of our time."[7]

Thanks for the complement.

frank317:


Homosexuals don't need help... someone who is attracted to a same sex still lives a normal life. Help him with what really?

Easily you conclude that a person who practices beastiality is sick but a person who practices homosexuality is normal. On what bases? They are both very similar. Is it because the "white man" in his civilized manner has not included it in his ethics dictionary?

Every claim of the homosexual is ascribable to one who practices beastiality. He could be born like that you know! Seriously, why would you call a person who practices beastiality sick?

frank317:

Ya some people are like that definitely.
Why claim atheists are like that? What evidence did you show them? Is subjective experience a good evidence? How is asking for a lab test wrong? You didn't provide enough evidence, refused to do a lab test and you call atheists hard core skeptist?

Interestingly, not every scientific experiment is done in the Lab. The great Albert Einsteins equation E=mc² was not arrived at in the lab. Many mathematics equations are still waiting for the time when they could be experimentally verified. Some equations actually predict that so so and so possibility exist in nature. For instance black hole was predicted mathematically several years before it could be verified by scientific observation.

So, you see. The idea of going to the lab does not hold water. Do you know how many economics theory exist? These are product of inferences from observations and these theories are respected because they are logically feasible. Thank God you studied psychology most of your theories of human behaviours are not done in the lab.

As a Psychologist, can you explain why Africa seem to be backward in every sphere of life? Yes, you can attempt to solve the problem but I am sure you will NOT take a bunch of Africans to the Lab for experimental research work.

Almost all Atheist I know believes in Darwin's theory of evolution why? Because he did some lab experiments? No! He is believed because it makes sense..and seems to be the best explanation available. So also in the spirit; you should be ready to accept the possibility if the explanation makes sense. You don't have to agree with it. The important thing is , is it logically FEASIBLE?

frank317:

Nope, the concept of God is not easy to comprehend if u are honest. Why then do we need faith to believe if it was easy? Do you need faith to call your father daddy? Why do people have different concepts of God if it's that easy?

Faith is not required to believe in the existence of God. Logic is! The discription of Gods personality may differ widely and drastically but with logic alone, one can prove that none physical dimensions exist. It is easy to come to a conclusion that animals have a sense of taste but is the taste of sugar in the mouth of a dog the same as a man?

frank317:

To me there is so much about the beginning of universe we don't know. Logic is only a reasonable explanation, we can go with it while we have nothing to prove otherwise.

I will use logic alone to prove the existence of God in my next post however, we have to pick just one point at a time and use logics to arrive at some conclusions. You may call all our Atheist friends on Nairalanders to join us ..maybe you will be able to convince me otherwise.

frank317:

There he goes again with spirit he cannot explain.

Who says I cannot explain? Its all about you. Would you be reasonable enough to acknowledge a possibility even if you don't believe in the explanation?

frank317:

Ya right... they do not have physical explanation therefore we should just make up some spiritual mumbo jumbo and voila!!! There lies our answer.

Till today, no scientist has been able to link either the human DNA, sex hormones or any physiological phenomenon to homosexuality but then the same scientists have concluded that homosexuals are born and not made. How did they come to that conclusion that the behaviour is normal? Can I use the same rule when discussing spirituality?

frank317:

Tell me something new, just don't fill in the gap with something u can't even comprehend .

Of course bit by bit supported by logic.

frank317:

Don't eve try, u will end up making a mess and mockery of your training.

No way! The rest of you see science as having the answer to every issue, my training actually exposed to me the fact that science is limited. You see, when I was much younger, I thought that my dad was big, strong and knew everything until when I began to discover that there were some things I knew that he didn't know.

frank317:

What is spirit, how do demons look? Where do they live ? Pls give me a more detailed explanation... I need something that would be easy for me to Grasp. if you can't do that, can u please let it go?

I promise to do that...but step by step. If I cannot first explain the fact that non physical dimensions exist, it is impossible to explain who/what demons are.

frank317:

Lol... just explain spiri spiri to me... you have not explained yet you claim to be an embodiment of truth. Lol

Did I claim to be an embodiment of truth? Only God can claim that title I am just His errand boy

frank317:

What kind of answer do u have... bring it on.


All I need is the kind of evidence you would ask of me if I tell you that a 'redgreenpurple cat-like mosquito' gives me food every morning. The concept of spirit sounds exactly like that to me.

The law of probability says that nothing is impossible. You definitely have to answer some questions like, is the food physical or spiritual. Is the cat-like mosquito physical or spiritual...LOL. Physical cat and physical food requres physical evidence.

frank317:

Some are born some are made... so? If they are ok with it why are u complaining? Are they not functioning normally ?

If a man practices beastiality and he is not complaining, does it make it right?

frank317:

Pray tell... when someone is demonized, does it not mean he is possessed by demons... please help me here, I might learn something new.

No Sir.
A person is demonized when he is being influenced, troubled or harassed by demons.
A person is possessed when his whole faculty is taken over by demons. Usually, his consciousness is taken over by the demon and he doesn't know what he is doing.

frank317:

Of course that's possible. But for now, we have no reason to let them be. They do not function normally... do your research... I studied psychology and I know what I am talking about. Beastility is a mental disorder... people who do it are sick and they know it.

Why is it a mental disorder? Is it not a sexual preference?.... an alternative sexual behavior?.... He even doesn't hurt anyone!

frank317:

No, by my explanation, homosexuals are not sick and should be left alone.
Honestly, I find the act repulsive but that does not men they are sick, it's just a sexual preference.

In the field of psychology, how will you describe a person who have a phobia of snails? Normal/Abnormal? Is there a test to know when a behaviours
needs medical intervention?

frank317:

Mad people do not function normally... there is no argument here.

I only stated the obvious: they say everybody has a degree of madness. When it crosses a threashold we say he is abnormal.

frank317:

Fulani people do not practice beastility... this is false. Of course the sick ones among them might do it and they know they are abnormal.

I did not say Fulani people. I said " some Fulani herdsmen " practice beastiality usually not as an exclusive means of sexual relation.

frank317:

Lol.. help in what? Most of them are good at their work place, wonderful musicians and actors, political leaders... and you want to help them? Help the with what?[/scientist

Check out this:

https://www.nairaland.com/3231721/rumour-actress-eats-poo-big

Do you think she needs help?

shadeyinka:


Easily you conclude that a person who practices beastiality is sick but a person who practices homosexuality is normal. On what bases? They are both very similar. Is it because the "white man" in his civilized manner has not included it in his ethics dictionary?

Every claim of the homosexual is ascribable to one who practices beastiality. He could be born like that you know! Seriously, why would you call a person who practices beastiality sick?

I am not like you who sit down in the comfort of your home and label anything you dont understand as spiritual. Try and study the two and you will see a huge personality difference in the two. I didint just conclude... I know, I studied psychology and thats a fact. Someone who practice bestiality is sick weather he is born that way or not, a homosexual lives a completely normal life, except when people like you demonize and persecute them.

Interestingly, not every scientific experiment is done in the Lab. The great Albert Einsteins equation E=mc² was not arrived at in the lab. Many mathematics equations are still waiting for the time when they could be experimentally verified. Some equations actually predict that so so and so possibility exist in nature. For instance black hole was predicted mathematically several years before it could be verified by scientific observation.

So, you see. The idea of going to the lab does not hold water. Do you know how many economics theory exist? These are product of inferences from observations and these theories are respected because they are logically feasible. Thank God you studied psychology most of your theories of human behaviours are not done in the lab.

As a Psychologist, can you explain why Africa seem to be backward in every sphere of life? Yes, you can attempt to solve the problem but I am sure you will NOT take a bunch of Africans to the Lab for experimental research work.

Almost all Atheist I know believes in Darwin's theory of evolution why? Because he did some lab experiments? No! He is believed because it makes sense..and seems to be the best explanation available. So also in the spirit; you should be ready to accept the possibility if the explanation makes sense. You don't have to agree with it. The important thing is , is it logically FEASIBLE?

all psychological findings are discovered in a controlled situation. Even if you cannot test spirits in the lab, all i need is an explanation that sounds logical.

Faith is not required to believe in the existence of God. Logic is! The description of Gods personality may differ widely and drastically but with logic alone, one can prove that none physical dimensions exist. It is easy to come to a conclusion that animals have a sense of taste but is the taste of sugar in the mouth of a dog the same as a man?

description of God's personality? tell me more.

I will use logic alone to prove the existence of God in my next post however, we have to pick just one point at a time and use logics to arrive at some conclusions. You may call all our Atheist friends on Nairalanders to join us ..maybe you will be able to convince me otherwise.

ok

Who says I cannot explain? Its all about you. Would you be reasonable enough to acknowledge a possibility even if you don't believe in the explanation?

possibility? well, I acknowledge that there is a possiblity...yet if your explanation is not plausible enough, i will not believe.

Till today, no scientist has been able to link either the human DNA, sex hormones or any physiological phenomenon to homosexuality but then the same scientists have concluded that homosexuals are born and not made. How did they come to that conclusion that the behaviour is
normal? Can I use the same rule when discussing spirituality?

The issue on weather homosexuals are born or made is still under debate and research. Its not conclusive. So is this why you just want to pop spirituality out of your head and make it a fact? How does that sound to you?

Of course bit by bit supported by logic.

ok, bring it on. lets see what you have got.

No way! The rest of you see science as having the answer to every issue, my training actually exposed to me the fact that science is limited. You see, when I was much younger, I thought that my dad was big, strong and knew everything until when I began to discover that there were some things I knew that he didn't know.

Of course science is limited... therefore we should make up things (spirituality in this case) for what we dont understand? how does that solve any problem? If spirituality is another word for 'i dont know' how does it solve the problem?

I promise to do that...but step by step. If I cannot first explain the fact that non physical dimensions exist, it is impossible to explain who/what demons are.

bring it on... still waiting.

Did I claim to be an embodiment of truth? Only God can claim that title I am just His errand boy

ok sorry, but you claim to have been telling me the truth by just being vague with all these spirituality issue.

The law of probability says that nothing is impossible. You definitely have to answer some questions like, is the food physical or spiritual. Is the cat-like mosquito physical or spiritual...LOL. Physical cat and physical food requires physical evidence.

if I say my catlike mosquito is not physical, will you believe me? Well, i will not believe.

If a man practices beastiality and he is not complaining, does it make it right?

a man who practices bestiality is sick. He always has a skewed personality that would always affect his productivity and relationship with others. must i repeat this again?

No Sir.
A person is demonized when he is being influenced, troubled or harassed by demons.
A person is possessed when his whole faculty is taken over by demons. Usually, his consciousness is taken over by the demon and he doesn't know what he is doing.

lol, ok... even though I see no much difference... but i will let it go. thanks for the explanation.

Why is it a mental disorder? Is it not a sexual preference?.... an alternative sexual behavior?.... He even doesn't hurt anyone!

mental disorder comprises of a whole lot of things... hurting ones self or others is just one of the components... unable to function properly and also interact normally with others is also part of it... this comes with beastiality.

In the field of psychology, how will you describe a person who have a phobia of snails? Normal/Abnormal? Is there a test to know when a behaviours
needs medical intervention?

hmmmm, are we going to do this again? not all abnormalies can be concluded as mental disorder. when phobia does not lead to dysfunctionality in ones life, it could hardly be seen as mental disorder.
have you ever heard of psych evaluation?
for now, beastiality is a mental disorder, homosexuality is not. I will not repeat this again.

I only stated the obvious: they say everybody has a degree of madness. When it crosses a threashold we say he is abnormal.

I mean mad people and you know what i mean so lets not do this.

I did not say Fulani people. I said " some Fulani herdsmen " practice beastiality usually not as an exclusive means of sexual relation.

well those who practice it have mental disorder.

Check out this:

https://www.nairaland.com/3231721/rumour-actress-eats-poo-big

Do you think she needs help?

lets talk about this when you have a real story.

frank317:

. ....
...
all psychological findings are discovered in a controlled situation. Even if you cannot test spirits in the lab, all i need is an explanation that sounds logical.

ok, bring it on. lets see what you have got.....

Of course science is limited... therefore we should make up things (spirituality in this case) for what we dont understand? how does that solve any problem? If spirituality is another word for 'i dont know' how does it solve the problem?

well those who practice it have mental disorder.


lets talk about this when you have a real story.

I promised you an explanation so let's begin. I will like all my Atheist friends to be part of it. The aim to proof the existence of a non physical dimension existing in parallel with the physical dimension. Theists will call this non physical dimension the spirit world.

Science have shown that the Universe is expanding rapidly in all directions.
This imply that at time t=0, of the beginnig of this expansion, the uninverse was just a point/bulb. this gave rise to the thoery called the Big bang theory of the Origin of the Universe.

Big Bang Theory - The Premise
The Big Bang theory is an effort to explain what happened at the very beginning of our universe. Discoveries in astronomy and physics have shown beyond a reasonable doubt that our universe did in fact have a beginning. Prior to that moment there was nothing; during and after that moment there was something: our universe. The big bang theory is an effort to explain what happened during and after that moment.

According to the standard theory, our universe sprang into existence as "singularity" around 13.7 billion years ago. What is a "singularity" and where does it come from? Well, to be honest, we don't know for sure. Singularities are zones which defy our current understanding of physics. They are thought to exist at the core of "black holes." Black holes are areas of intense gravitational pressure. The pressure is thought to be so intense that finite matter is actually squished into infinite density (a mathematical concept which truly boggles the mind). These zones of infinite density are called "singularities." Our universe is thought to have begun as an infinitesimally small, infinitely hot, infinitely dense, something - a singularity. Where did it come from? We don't know. Why did it appear? We don't know.

http://www.big-bang-theory.com/

However, this time t is not zero because before the sudden initiation of the expansion the basic core of what we call our universe was already in existence. For how long? No body knows.

Lets go back to time t=zero,

Every space should be empty of everything (matter). Total energy in space should be zero.

Do you agree to the statement in Bold?
if you agree, then we can move on with the proof that other dimensions exist.

Basic Definitions:
Matter (Solids, Liquids, Gases, Plasma): Things that have mass and occupies space.
Energy: Potential or capacity to do Work
Work: Change of state or position of matter by applied energy

shadeyinka:
Science have shown that the Universe is expanding rapidly in all directions.
This imply that at time t=0, of the beginnig of this expansion, the uninverse was just a point/bulb. this gave rise to the thoery called the Big bang theory of the Origin of the Universe.



However, this time t is not zero because before the sudden initiation of the expansion the basic core of what we call our universe was already in existence. For how long? No body knows.

Lets go back to time t=zero,

Every space should be empty of everything (matter). Total energy in space should be zero.

Do you agree to the statement in Bold?
if you agree, then we can move on with the proof that other dimensions exist.

Basic Definitions:
Matter (Solids, Liquids, Gases, Plasma): Things that have mass and occupies space.
Energy: Potential or capacity to do Work
Work: Change of state or position of matter by applied energy

I could be wrong but the above makes sense, of course if I pay little attention to the fact that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

But go on with ur explanation, considering that fact that this is not my area of expertise

frank317:


I could be wrong but the above makes sense, of course if I pay little attention to the fact that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

But go on with ur explanation, considering that fact that this is not my area of expertise

How the black hole is formed?
Stellar black holes form when the center of a very massive star collapses in upon itself. This collapse also causes a supernova, or an exploding star, that blasts part of the star into space. Scientists think supermassive black holes formed at the same time as the galaxy they are in.

The pull from a black hole is so great that light cannot escape from the surface. The Energy of our Sun (one of the very small stars) is approximately 4x1026 Watt. In lay man’s terms the energy of the sun is 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Watt.

How does the sun(One of the Billions Stars) generate its Energy?

The simple answer is that the Sun, like all stars, is able to create energy because it is essentially a massive fusion reaction. Scientists believe that this began when a huge cloud of gas and particles (i.e. a nebula) collapsed under the force of its own gravity – which is known as Nebula Theory. This not only created the big ball of light at the center of our Solar System, it also triggered a process whereby hydrogen, collected in the center, began fusing to create solar energy.
Technically known as nuclear fusion, this process releases an incredible amount of energy in the form of light and heat. But getting that energy from the center of our Sun all the way out to planet Earth and beyond involves a couple of crucial steps. In the end, it all comes down to the Sun’s layers, and the role each of them plays in making sure that solar energy gets to where it can help create and sustain life.
http://www.universetoday.com/75803/how-does-the-sun-produce-energy/

Sun's Overall Properties
• produces 4x1026 watts of energy and based on the Earth's fossil record, has been doing so at virtually the same rate for over 3 billion years.
• has a mass of 2x1030 kg and an average density of 1400 kg/m3 (recall the computation of the density of Jupiter which illustrates that even an object comprised largely of H can be this dense; H is in a different state in the Sun than in Jupiter, however)
• has a surface temperature of 5800ºK (which implies that it must be a compressed gas because no materials can remain solid or even liquid at this temperature)
• rotates in about 25 days at its equator; it rotates differentially confirming its gaseous character
• has a magnetic field
http://ircamera.as.arizona.edu/astr_250/Lectures/Lecture_12.htm

Why all the fuss about these grammer?
Science starts the theory of creation from another creation (the black hole) which is a collapsed Star which consists of Hydrogen atoms.

Hydrogen in an ordered atom. consisting of one proton, one neutron and one electron. The electrons are moving round the nucleus in a fixed orbital. Like a satellite moving round a planet moving at some fixed speed.

Hydrogen is a perpetual Machine
Where did the basic element of the Stars (Hydrogen) come from? How did they (hydrogen atom) become ordered?

Will you agree with me that science has not answered the question of the origin of the universe?

There are still other issues and I will present them after this

shadeyinka:
Hi Bro, you know I never heard of him...Ravi Zacharias



I dug up some interesting things about him:
Zacharias states that a coherent worldview must be able to satisfactorily answer four questions: that of origin, meaning of life, morality and destiny. He says that while every major religion makes exclusive claims about truth, the Christian faith is unique in its ability to answer all four of these questions.[28] He routinely speaks on the coherence of the Christian worldview,[29] saying that Christianity is capable of withstanding the toughest philosophical attacks.[30] Zacharias believes that the apologist must argue from three levels: the theoretical, to line up the logic of the argument; the arts, to illustrate; and "kitchen table talk", to conclude and apply.[31] Zacharias' style of apologetic focuses predominantly on Christianity's answers to life's great existential questions,[32] with defense of God.

I dof my hat for the man. Kai, I wish I could be close to him in presenting Jesus, God the Father and the Spiritual in a logically clear manner.




Thanks for the complement.

You are welcome.

shadeyinka:


How the black hole is formed?
Stellar black holes form when the center of a very massive star collapses in upon itself. This collapse also causes a supernova, or an exploding star, that blasts part of the star into space. Scientists think supermassive black holes formed at the same time as the galaxy they are in.

The pull from a black hole is so great that light cannot escape from the surface. The Energy of our Sun (one of the very small stars) is approximately 4x1026 Watt. In lay man’s terms the energy of the sun is 400,000,000,000,000,000,000,000,000 Watt.

How does the sun(One of the Billions Stars) generate its Energy?





Why all the fuss about these grammer?
Science starts the theory of creation from another creation (the black hole) which is a collapsed Star which consists of Hydrogen atoms.

Hydrogen in an ordered atom. consisting of one proton, one neutron and one electron. The electrons are moving round the nucleus in a fixed orbital. Like a satellite moving round a planet moving at some fixed speed.

Hydrogen is a perpetual Machine
Where did the basic element of the Stars (Hydrogen) come from? How did they (hydrogen atom) become ordered?

Will you agree with me that science has not answered the question of the origin of the universe?

There are still other issues and I will present them after this

Why do all you theists think alike. What pains me is that after saying all these things which a scientific suggestions, you will still end up saying God did it

So what if science does not have all the answers? Is that news? Well, I am still waiting for a logical explanation of the spiritual.

NB: I am not a scientist and I always believe that there is a lot about the beginning of of our universite that we don't know.

frank317:


Why do all you theists think alike. What pains me is that after saying all these things which a scientific suggestions, you will still end up saying God did it

So what if science does not have all the answers? Is that news? Well, I am still waiting for a logical explanation of the spiritual.

NB: I am not a scientist and I always believe that there is a lot about the beginning of of our universite that we don't know.

My intention is to show that apart from the physical universe, a non material phase is highly feasible. Theists will call it the spiritual world.

I have showed that it is necessary to look at the beginning of creation not from when our universe began to expand, but from the point where:

1. Total Energy in the Universe is zero.
2. The space containg the universe's is completely empty.
We should also assume that the Physical laws are immutable and hold even at that time.


However, if the total energy in the universe is zero, how come there exist so much energies distributed in space? This question scientists quickly realised as a great problem. It is known as a fundermental law that energy can neither be created nor destroyed.

Scientist concluded that their must be an equal mass of matter and antimatter in the infinite space. Matter and antimatter are supposed to annihilate each other to produce zero energy.

Unfortunately, if by necessity at the beginning of time matter and antimatter in equal proportion, What separated them? Separation of matter and antimatter cannot occur spontaneously. To separate matter from antimatter, a great deal of external energy is required.

It is impossible that this energy will come from the physical rhelm. Hence, the possibility of a non material rhelm having influence o the physical rhelm is high. By inference, the physical rhelm is just a SUBSET of this non material rhelm.

However, Scientists cannot bring themselves to the conclusion that the starting energies must be from another frame of reference.

One of the fundermental laws of Physics is the law of Entropy. It simply says that everything progressively goes towards a state of chaos and the reverse never happens. In other words, given enough time, the whole universe should completely dissipate its energy and form a random distribution.

So, if there is a natural law of dissipation, how come this law was violated in the formation of the universe?

Sorry, let me give a mundane example. It is expected that, given enough time a building will dissipate/distribute itself into the elements of the earth...the reverse never happens. Unless of course someone somewhere decides to BUILD a building from earth materialism.


In my next post, I will establish the impossibility of the simplest atom self assembling itself.

My submission above goes beyond "Science do not have answer to everything!" to the fact that it looks like there is another frame of existence to which the laws of physics do not hold.

Formation of the physical seems to require some forms of "magic". What is magic? Suspension of the physical laws.

However we look at it, it took some external energies(to our universes) to create the universe.

Another evidence is the Expanding Universe.
It shows that the universe did not come into existence quietly. Newtons law of motion says that every mass continues in its state of motion unless a force compels it to change course and speed.

What and where did the force dispersing/ expanding the universe originate?

Watch this interesting interlude

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfT2_dmhTrI