and?

Well, let us not get worked up. One thing that we shuld ALWAYS remember is that we're in the last day. People will call good evil & evil good. Take it or leave it. Many churches are hiding under the cloak of "oh jesus we love you" but lack elementry knowledge of d same jesus. Some women, pastors and parents are knowngly/unknowngly leadng many to doom (isa.9:16/matt15:14/ jer.5:30,31)

i'm sorry if i'm repeating anybody here, because i couldnt go through all the posts but i want to drop my 50 cent like smone always say.

The bible was written especially the old testament in context of the jewish culture because then they tot like evryone else that the world ends in your community, no one knew more than their environment. The jews never wore trousers as men or women, they dressed like we see them in those ''Jesus of nazareth movies''. They cover their heads as well.

So it all goes down to culture, like someone already said the scottish wear smthg like a skirt both men and women, even in nigeria, the urobo's cultural attire is top with wrapper round their neck.

But due to modernisation and exposure cultures are mixed, and we don't have to base our judgement of wots right or wrong on cultural bias.

What i don't and wont subscribe to, is being literally naked to anywhr not to talk of the church,

My 50 cent

Oyebanji07:

Do you guys read this verses in Matthew at all?

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. 5:18 I tell you the truth, 19 until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.

Guys think about it. Its there in your Bible.

@Oyebanji07,
1) So what is your point? In fact that is the wrong question, the right question is this: What do you understand by, or what do you think Jesus meant by ",,,,,,,,,,,but to fulfill them" (i.e. the Law) (?) I am sure you took it literally, well reading the Bible requires intuition if it is to serve it's purpose of being a guiding light. This is what He was saying:

Now, the Gospel figuratively is "Jesus Christ" and as a proposition it means "good news". What Jesus meant in Matt 5 v17-18 is that the New Testament Gospel is not contradictory to the Old Testament Law; rather 'He' is the ultimate fulfilment of the "spiritual Intention" of the law. What is that 'spirittual intention' of the law?; as I stated in my earlier post, it is clear from the scriptures that the law cannot impute salvation, the purpose of the law is to convict of guilt of sin; and then lead you to Christ for Salvation. Where the Law had degenerated to outward legalism (e.g dont wear trousers, dont cover head, etc), Jesus Christ takes the law beyond mere outward observance or self-piety, to the inner spiritual intention of God, which is Holiness and righteouness. This again emphasise that Salvation is not by works or law but by faith is Christ Jesus. God will give help your understanding.

Oyebanji07:

Do you guys read this verses in Matthew at all?

Matthew 5:17-18
“Do not think that I have come to abolish the law or the prophets. I have not come to abolish these things but to fulfill them. 5:18 I tell you the truth, 19 until heaven and earth pass away not the smallest letter or stroke of a letter will pass from the law until everything takes place.

Guys think about it. Its there in your Bible.

Thank you my brother.



I have dissapointed God in some way, must i now right my wrong in the face of people.

OR

Justify my wrong to be Right just because i am sinking in that particular sin.

The question is:

Why do these things started recently?

Why not then?

What is the effect?

Example

I was watching a marriage ceremony of a couple on Television in Ibadan 8 years ago.

A Renowned Man of God was overseeing a show of nudity.

I can't just believe it.

They will call it another "time of grace" again.

agreed there are some cases of nudity in some churches,  but please spare me the trousers stuff that was in the old testament tho am not so deep in ma bible,  but the covering of hear stuff was like a respect for the men,  it was like the men were the heads of the family and the women ought to cover their hair has a sign of respect to their husbands_chikena

Havila:

@Oyebanji07,
1) So what is your point? In fact that is the wrong question, the right question is this: What do you understand by, or what do you think Jesus meant by ",,,,,,,,,,,but to fulfill them" (i.e. the Law) (?) I am sure you took it literally, well reading the Bible requires intuition if it is to serve it's purpose of being a guiding light. This is what He was saying:

Now, the Gospel figuratively is "Jesus Christ" and as a proposition it means "good news". What Jesus meant in Matt 5 v17-18 is that the New Testament Gospel is not contradictory to the Old Testament Law; rather 'He' is the ultimate fulfilment of the "spiritual Intention" of the law. What is that 'spirittual intention' of the law?; as I stated in my earlier post, it is clear from the scriptures that the law cannot impute salvation, the purpose of the law is to convict of guilt of sin; and then lead you to Christ for Salvation. Where the Law had degenerated to outward legalism (e.g don't wear trousers, don't cover head, etc), Jesus Christ takes the law beyond mere outward observance or self-piety, to the inner spiritual intention of God, which is Holiness and righteouness. This again emphasise that Salvation is not by works or law but by faith is Christ Jesus. God will give help your understanding.

@Havila

         It's very clear you are the one who is very pointless here.You always find your own personal interpretation for any quotes in the Bible that goes against your believe by saying this is what is means,that is what it means.Well I'm not surprised at ur write ups cos it's very ussual of you making and giving personal meaning to Bible verses.

Honestly,for a man with little knowledge could easily understand and interprete what that verse is saying.This verse it self is self explanatory so why confusing urself Havila?
"Do not think I have come to abolish the the law or the Prophets"

Why then do you say the Old Testament is no longer applicable to the Christians?When Jesus(PBUH) himself said those verses  in your Bible.Who are we to believe Havila?
Then I begin to wonder why the Old Testament is still included and used in the Bible when it's no longer applicable to Christians.

Think clearly about your believe.And turn away from the lies of men.
Take care.

Oyebanji07:

@Havila
(1) You always find your own personal interpretation for any quotes in the Bible that goes against your believe by saying this is what is means,that is what it means.

(2) Honestly, for a man with little knowledge could easily understand and interprete what that verse is saying.This verse it self is self explanatory so why confusing yourself Havila?

@Oyebanji07
Now you've further confirmed the assertion that you and couple of your fellow 'jammat' on this forum are very narrow-minded,,,,,,,,you know what is described as 'tunnel reasoning.'
The Bible is not a book of do's and don't like that "heretic story book" which you guys are required to "cram" and they kill goat for you when you finish . The Bible is a book of wisdom containing the thoughts and intents of God. Understanding any part of the Bible will require that you to know (1) who was talking, (2) to whom is the passage directed, (3) what is the context and (4) then you find supporting references. A self-confessed "man with little knowledge" (your own words) definitely will read the passage out of context and assume it is self explanatory because you are using the 'skills' of reading or  "cramming" the quran to explain a biblical passage.
The interpretations of the passages are inspired by the Spirit of God that gives understanding and wisdom; and it requires intuition and cross-referencing; not just reading with a closed mind. It is the hidden mysteries of God that is hidden from the blind. This is why we always try to explain the passages to you and other 'mummin' so you can move away from darkness and let the Light come in.

@Havila: Nice try; Phewwww!!!!. You write as if you are in the Brain of Jesus Christ. But really, you are not. Since Jesus did not write the New Testament, and it is your cleque of "Inspired Writers" that you claimed do the deed, then Jesus can not be factored into any of your 'Opinion'. Unfortunately, thet opinion becomes a personal matter. No wonder you go about trying to play Reverend Father. I am trying to be funny here, giving you an opportunity to use your marble.

Now that we know that you do not have direct information from Jesus, your god or the Millennium Baby Jesus in Diaper, then it means that the 'jammat' are always winning. Afterall, we have a Book that have not changed since it was revealed. There is a full text of explanation of each and every verse. The man who received the revelation in his life time had over 100, ooo men, not counting women and young! Every aspect of that religion, he practiced it and there were witnesses to every one of them. He participated in the building of houses of worship, each still remained to this very minute. No wonder we have a true leader who will recognise every true believer in the day of Judgement and then seek intersession and get it, InshaAllah.

Compare this to your all made up and still making up religion. Can you imagine what other things you get wrong if you can even be correct in the date of the birth of your god! Yet everyone of you follow it as Fela Anikulapo said in his Zombie Song, Jo oro ja ara jo oro!

By the way I met one of your Ife boys. His name is Nurudeen Lawal. He is a Cardiologist. Does that name ring a bell? I will tell you more about him and his statement about the Qur'an. I think he finished about 15 years ago or so. You should know about him.

How did a thread about affairs of church turn into a holy war?

@ Olabowale,

I was tired but i tried to find a few answers to the nonsense you posted here.

Afterall, we have a Book that have not changed since it was revealed - You actually think so? What of abrogated verses? Considering the fact that Allah and his protege in deciet, Mohammed spent a lot of time forgeting earlier verses, abrogating those unfavorable to their selfish desires and replacing them with new verses! The quran was not written down from when it was revealed until well after Mohammed had passed on, how then can we rely on the fact that you claim "it has NEVER changed"? Could those who passed it on be relied upon for having excellent memory? What of the sheiks who burnt parts of the quran and printed their own versions?

There is a full text of explanation of each and every verse. - "Full" explanation? What of the explanation for the sun setting in a muddy spring? Has al-illah finally remembered with what he created his slaves with? Has anyone "fully" explained the 8/7 = 1 inheritance riddle yet?

The man who received the revelation in his life time had over 100, ooo men, not counting women and young! - O wait! You forgot to add slaves, sexual tools, temporary wives, war booty and underaged children!

Every aspect of that religion, he practiced it and there were witnesses to every one of them. - Yeah, no wonder his slaves are busy suicide bombing everyone, killing innocent nuns, declaring world wide days of anger, threatening to conquer Rome, oppressing women and hanging children for public sport. They were merely following the ways of the prophet!

He participated in the building of houses of worship, each still remained to this very minute. - And? Next?

No wonder we have a true leader who will recognise every true believer in the day of Judgement and then seek intersession and get it, InshaAllah. - The same fellow who was not sure if al-illah would send him to jannat? Is he the same man you are counting on to seek intercession for you?

Compare this to your all made up and still making up religion. - Hmmmm, i tried comparing life and death, love and hate, peace and violence, genuine and counterfeit, Christ and al-illah, indeed there is no comparison! If Christianity was made up, Islam must have been dreamt up, imagine "recieving a revelation" in a cave! No wonder Bush has never found Osama, he's hiding in one of Mohammed's wonder caves of "revelation"!

Can you imagine what other things you get wrong if you can even be correct in the date of the birth of your God! - The date of the birth of Christ is of no relevance to us! Rather that He is alive and daily maketh intercession for us, that His blood availeth for us, that in Him we live and move and have our being, that in Him we have hope for eternal life!! By the way, do you by any chance know al-illah's birthday?

Yet everyone of you follow it as Fela Anikulapo said in his Zombie Song, Jo oro ja ara jo oro! - At least we follow a God we can prove IS ALIVE! How can you follow a religion of lies, deciet, violence, slavery in the name of protecting women? How do you follow a religion that celebrates the hanging of children? How can someone with half a brain follow a god who has no idea if the shape of the earth he allegedly created is flat or round?

@Olabowale,
As somebody said, I dont want to digress from the topic, which is about dressing in today's churches. No I dont know Nurudeen Lawal, he must have finished little earlier than myself.
By the way, there is no way you can understand how I come to explain the biblical passages, neither can you understand it. The fact that it is written in English does not mean all tom, dick and harry can know the "implied" meaning. You do not need to 'think' when reading the quran because it is a book of do's and dont's written by your General/Field Marshall Muhammed for his servants and recruits a.k.a the 'jammat'.
The Bible was not only written under inspiration of holy spirit, in fact to further confound you, the understanding also requires "inspiration"of spirit of the true God which you do not have or know, and He does not even know you and your fellow 'jammat'. But as Children of God, (yes!! children of the mighty God we are) we have understanding of the hidden mysteries of God through His spirit that teach us all things.
No wonder almost everything about Jesus Christ is plagiarised into the quran to give credibility to what is not credible: His virgin birth; his many miracles; his ascension to heaven; His being the Word and Spirit of God, etc; But then the quran "choose" to deny the remaining truth about his divinity; his crusifixion simply to make way for propagating by deception the false ideology called Islam that seeks to portray a false way to salvation through works and sunnah (living like muhammed, talk about living like the devil himself as a route to salvation).
Olabowale, you are correct: I am in the brain of Jesus; in fact, his mind and his thoughts are inside me, as in any Christian who submits his life to Him as Lord and Saviour. We learn to understand by His Spirit who "teaches us all things." This is why you and other 'jammats' are amazed at how we explain the same passages using different references to support a single point. That is called power of consistency of a God who does not change.

I like, as much as possible, to stay on the topic of the thread rather than digress.

Deuteronomy 22: 5

"The woman shall not wear that which pertainet unto man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the lord thy God"

I hope you reaslise that when that scripture was written, there were no trousers in existence. I'd like to avoid contending with you over the word of God BUT; what exactly is THAT WHICH PERTAINETH UNTO MAN in terms of garments? It would be better to under this before we go to decide what is proper for a man to wear and what is proper for a woman to wear.

Exodus 28:42

"And thou shallt make them linen breeches to cover their unclothedness;from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:


This was a proclamation of God for the cladding of Aaron and his SONS, when they went to minister to God. It was not a directive to the whole of the congregation of Israel (God's chosen at the time)

42. And thou shalt make them linen breeches to cover their unclothedness; from the loins even unto the thighs they shall reach:

43. And they shall be upon Aaron, and upon his sons, when they come in unto the tabernacle of the congregation, or when they come near unto the altar to minister in the holy place; that they bear not iniquity, and die: it shall be a statute for ever unto him and his seed after him.
   

1 Chorinthians 11:6

"For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered"

That one has been quoted out of context. If you read from the top, you'll see that the head which is to be covered was mentioned. It also tells you further down that chapter the reason for the commandment so I dont believe it refers to the physical head.

3But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ; and the head of the woman is the man; and the head of Christ is God.

4Every man praying or prophesying, having his head covered, dishonoureth his head.

5But every woman that prayeth or prophesieth with her head uncovered dishonoureth her head: for that is even all one as if she were shaven.

6For if the woman be not covered, let her also be shorn: but if it be a shame for a woman to be shorn or shaven, let her be covered.

7For a man indeed ought not to cover his head, forasmuch as he is the image and glory of God: but the woman is the glory of the man.

8For the man is not of the woman: but the woman of the man.

9Neither was the man created for the woman; but the woman for the man.

10For this cause ought the woman to have power on her head because of the angels.

It rounds it up by saying:

16But if any man seem to be contentious, we have no such custom, neither the churches of God.

Easyy,

Nuff said,thanks

Somebody who has a skirt on and one who has a pant(trouser) on who is more covered?

@Everyone

I cant believe why people interpret the Bible to their way of thinking!

You hear such stories like

1) That verse was meant for Israel not us.

2) What the bible was teaching is bla bla bla.

Is Old testament a forgone part of the bible?

edygirl:

Somebody who have a skirt on and one who has a pant(trouser) on who is more covered?

Lol.

Akolawole:

@Everyone

I can't believe why people interpret the Bible to their way of thinking!

You hear such stories like

1) That verse was meant for Israel not us.

2) What the bible was teaching is bla bla bla.

Is Old testament a forgone part of the bible?

@Akolawole.
I wonder so much too.They end up telling you "tunnel reasoning".Of what significance is that?

@Havila
You need to be inspired before you can understand the Bible?That's so difficult.I wonder how many readers of "your" Bible are being inspired.Or they have to be inspired the way Paul was?

You call the  Holy Quran the Book of do's and donts.You are right coz that is just one of it's attributes because it serves as guidiance to Mankind in other to live a good and peaceful life both in this world and in the hereafter.
It's not and will never be like "your" Bible.Remember those contradictions?Remember the Songs of Solomon?How pornographic is that?(Songs of Solomon) and So many of them like that. Or Is it "your" Bible that says the World is FLAT and FIXED(Does not move)
Why do we have to believe all these lies Havila?

Honestly,a man with good,open mind and with the help of Allah(SWT) after reading all these lies written by Paul and his allies will never and never have to believe all these lies.

I thank Allah(SWT) for making me a Muslim and for puting me on the right path so as my fellow Muslims in every corner of the World.

Havila,why not go away from the darkness and the lies these people have given to you(Paul and others).I pray Almighty Allah you a Muslim and all other disbelievers.Amin.

APOLOGY FOR GOING OFF THE TOPIC.

Akolawole:

@Everyone

I can't believe why people interpret the Bible to their way of thinking!

You hear such stories like

1) That verse was meant for Israel not us.

2) What the bible was teaching is bla bla bla.

Is Old testament a forgone part of the bible?

Have you tried reading scriptures wholly without taking them out of context?

Dont be mistaken; I believe in both Old and New testament so I am not one to say something is in the OT and not for me now.

@Eassy

Was my statement directed to you?
Are you the entity everyone?

The house of God has been completely turned to another thing.

This cant be gospel of the old?

The house of God remains, We dont have to remain in the dark ages to prove that we are righteous, as all our righteousness is like filthy rags b4 Him, Its only the righteousness of Jesus in us Christians that would count on Judgement day.
I dont support being semi nude to church though. I think thats over doing things.

umm dude, Easyy is part of "everyone". And she being part of errbody, she only replied likewise. What's so hard to understand there?

umm dude, Easyy is part of "everyone". And she being part of errbody, she only replied likewise. What's so hard to understand there?

you posting the same thing 2ce !

umm dude, Easyy is part of "everyone". And she being part of errbody, she only replied likewise. What's so hard to understand there?

oh, now i understand.

umm dude, Easyy is part of "everyone". And she being part of errbody, she only replied likewise. What's so hard to understand there?

wonders they say will never end.

Really we seem to see things very differently.
My question here is even in the Olden times, you want to tell me what kind of robe they were wearing then, because for king David to have danced so much that his robes fell off him, please for those who are so logical in their reasoning, what kind of robe was he wearing that his robes and that of a king most especially would fall off him that he got naked while praising his God?