huxley:


OK, you think the Genesis cosmology is in accord with modern day cosmology?  Let's examine the Genesis narrative:

In Genesis, the Sun was not  created until the 4 day; if this is true then you have to explain the following:

1)   The concept of day/night does NOT make sense except in the light (pun intended) of a source of light which periodically bathes the earth.  If there was no Sun, our source of light, then there would never have been a day nor a night.  So talking of day/night makes no sense in the absense of the sun.

2)   The Sun is not only the source of light, it is also the centre of attraction of all planets in the solar system.  If god created the earth before the sun, this would suggest that the earth was never in an orbit but must have been travelling in a non-orbitary trajectory, or was stationary.  As far as I know, there is no modern cosmological theory that accounts for stationary planets, or for planets forming prior to their stars.  So Genesis violates the most basic of modern cosmology.

For you to attempt to reconcile Genesis with modern cosmology/astronomy with realising these issues is either gross ignorance on your part, or willful ignorance, or sheer dishonesty.

I couldn't have said it any better. . . .

mazaje:

Which pride exactly are you talking about. . .

Gen1:1 In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth.
Gen1:2 Now the earth was formless and empty, darkness was over the surface of the deep, and the Spirit of God was hovering over the waters.
Gen 1:3 And God said, "Let there be light," and there was light.
Gen1:4 God saw that the light was good, and he separated the light from the darkness.
Gen1:5 God called the light "day," and the darkness he called "night." And there was evening, and there was morning--the first day.
Gen1:6 And God said, "Let there be an expanse between the waters to separate water from water."
Gen1:7 So God made the expanse and separated the water under the expanse from the water above it. And it was so. . . . . ,  . . .Gen 1:16 God made two great lights--the greater light to govern the day and the lesser light to govern the night. He also made the stars.
Gen 1:17  God set them in the expanse of the sky to give light on the earth,
Gen 1:18 to govern the day and the night, and to separate light from darkness. And God saw that it was good.
Gen 1:19 And there was evening, and there was morning--the fourth day.

According to the 6 day creation account the earth was already in existence before the biblegod created the stars and the sun on the 4th day. . .why then  are you comparing this account to the big bang. . . I am not saying that the big bang is true but they are NOT the same thing because the two accounts are different. . .The big bang lays more emphasis on the creation of the universe as a whole. . the creation account in genesis talks about the creation of the earth and talks very little about the creation of the stars. . it does not even talk about the creation of other planets and other planetary bodies. . .

even a quick cursory glance at Gen1 :1 shows you some basic facts.

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth

heavens is plural. What does that tell you? Is it referring to the sky or something larger?

look, read with your eyes open. I cant be explaining all this basic stuff all the time.



The earth was formless and void. Do you know the meaning of formless? The earth you know today- isnt it round and with a definite shape?

since you people are stuck in 11th century thinking, or whatever premedieval/premordial beliefs you subscribe to- I'm pointing out the fact that light itself had a beginning, and it didnt start with the sun. Genesis clearly shows this.

If you cant see it, too bad.

Huxley I dont have your time today. Just post whatever you feel like posting.

tpia.:

even a quick cursory glance at Gen1 :1 shows you some basic facts.


heavens is plural. What does that tell you? Is it referring to the sky or something larger?

Actually this depends on which bible translation you are using. . the King james version says heaven not heavens. . but that is not the case. . . .

look, read with your eyes open. I cant be explaining all this basic stuff all the time.

I am reading with my eyes open. . .

The earth was formless and void. Do you know the meaning of formless? The earth you know today- isnt it round and with a definite shape?

There is no where in the bible where it says that the bible god gave the earth form or shape. . .It talks about the bible god creating the heaven/heavens in the beginning and then goes on to give a detailed and elaborate account of how the heavens and the earth were created in 6 days and in that detailed and elaborate account the sun and stars were not created until the 4th day. . .plants were even created on the 3rd day before the stars and the sun. . . How then do you reconcile this account with modern cosmology which says(with evidence) that stars are created before the planets that orbit around them. . .The bible Clearly says that the earth with plants in it was already in existence before the sun and the stars were created because the sun and the stars were created on the 4th day of creation. . . .What part of it do you not understand?

tpia.:

since you people are stuck in 11th century thinking, or whatever premedieval/premordial beliefs you subscribe to- I'm pointing out the fact that light itself had a beginning, and it didnt start with the sun. Genesis clearly shows this.

If you cant see it, too bad.

Huxley I dont have your time today. Just post whatever you feel like posting.

Is it because he has made salient points that you know is true. . , .

tpia.:

since you people are stuck in 11th century thinking, or whatever premedieval/premordial beliefs you subscribe to- I'm pointing out the fact that light itself had a beginning, and it didnt start with the sun. Genesis clearly shows this.

If you cant see it, too bad.

Huxley I dont have your time today. Just post whatever you feel like posting.

I just had to laugh out loud on this one - But I wonder, Why don't you have my time?  Is it something (scientific and technical) I could have said?


By the way, I don't think anyone (I mean the scientific rationalist) is saying that light solely originates from the sun.  Current scientific thinking has light created thousand or millions of years (my memory fails me here as to the exact estimate) after the Big Bang.   And there were many billions of stars formed before our own star, the sun.  Today, the earth is bathed by the light of billions of stars, but these stars have no consequence on the day/night concept of the earth.

So the concept of day/night only makes sense in the following combination of events:

1)  A rotating planet
2)  A source of light
3)  The source and the planet being gravitationally bound together.

@ huxley

What was your major in university?. . . .

mazaje:

@ huxley

What was your major in university?. . . .

Civil Engineering & Mathematical Analysis/Modelling at Manchester University.  I started a diploma course in Astronomy/Cosmology last year at Manchester Univ, but have had to shelf it due to family and work engagements?  I have still got the books which I read from time to time.

mazaje:

@ huxley

What was your major in university?. . . .

Are you currently at university or are you in employment? What is you line of study/work?

The god of this world has blinded their eyes so that they can not see the light of the glorious gospel of JESUS CHRIST.

A fool says in his heart, there is no God.

The LORD is Laughing you to derision and will soon break you into pieces like a potters vessel.

Be ye not mockers, lest your bounds be made strong and ye be destroyed by the destruction determined upon the earth

And the LORD will bruise satan shortly under the sole of my feet

Let every soul be subject to the higher power for there is no power but of God. The power that be are ordained of God.

REPENT NOW. RETURN FROM YOUR WAYS.

Broad is the way that lead to destruction.

He that depart from the way of understanding shall abide in the congregation of the dead.

Stop following a counterfeiter.

JESUS IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

God our Father in Heaven is the father of all Spirits.

He that is from above is above all

Come to Jesus Christ all you that labour and are heavy ladden and HE will give you rest

Know the TRUTH and it will make you free.

Believers in Jesus Christ are commanders over all other spirits

huxley:

Are you currently at university or are you in employment?  What is you line of study/work?

I am employed. . .I have a degree in geology and mining back in Nigeria came to Europe and had another degree in software engineering and information management. . .I also Have an MBA in engineering management. . . .What about you?. . . .

monopolist:

The god of this world has blinded their eyes so that they can not see the light of the glorious gospel of JESUS CHRIST.

A fool says in his heart, there is no God.

The LORD is Laughing you to derision and will soon break you into pieces like a potters vessel.

Be ye not mockers, lest your bounds be made strong and ye be destroyed by the destruction determined upon the earth

And the LORD will bruise satan shortly under the sole of my feet

Let every soul be subject to the higher power for there is no power but of God. The power that be are ordained of God.

REPENT NOW. RETURN FROM YOUR WAYS.

Broad is the way that lead to destruction.

He that depart from the way of understanding shall abide in the congregation of the dead.

Stop following a counterfeiter.

JESUS IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

God our Father in Heaven is the father of all Spirits.

He that is from above is above all

Come to Jesus Christ all you that labour and are heavy ladden and HE will give you rest

Know the TRUTH and it will make you free.

Believers in Jesus Christ are commanders over all other spirits

Yes jesus is lord. . next. . . .

mazaje:

I am employed. . .I have a degree in geology and mining back in Nigeria came to Europe and had another degree in software engineering and information management. . .I also Have an MBA in engineering management. . . .What about you?. . . .  

Ah, not too dissimilar a background then.  I now work in software and IT infrastructure, having left civil enigeering and maths about 10 years ago.  I like to meet people who are into burning that intellectual fire in them, and there is no better place for sharpening once teeth than getting engaged in debates like we do here at NL.

Do you read popular science books?  If you don't, I would like to urge to to take a look into these genre of books.  There are plenty good authors out there now - from natural science, to astronomy, cosmology, physics, geology, etc.

There is good book in geology called SnowBall Earth (http://www.amazon.com/Snowball-Earth-Maverick-Scientist-Catastrophe/dp/1400051258/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1253553103&sr=8-1),  which am sure you would fine entrancing.

huxley:

Civil Engineering & Mathematical Analysis/Modelling at Manchester University.  I started a diploma course in Astronomy/Cosmology last year at Manchester Univ, but have had to shelf it due to family and work engagements?  I have still got the books which I read from time to time.

Interesting. . .I just started studying astronomy and cosmology about 5 months ago. . .when I visited the European space agency in Holland and looked through their telescopes(What an incredible experience that was for me). . . . Astronomy is the sh*t. . . .

The first day of creation was about 2,000 years ago.

,mama-gee:

The first day of creation was about 2,000 years ago.

I weep when I read such comments as this. . . .

The god of this world has blinded their eyes so that they can not see the light of the glorious gospel of JESUS CHRIST.

A fool says in his heart, there is no God.

The LORD is Laughing you to derision and will soon break you into pieces like a potters vessel.

Be ye not mockers, lest your bounds be made strong and ye be destroyed by the destruction determined upon the earth

And the LORD will bruise satan shortly under the sole of my feet

Let every soul be subject to the higher power for there is no power but of God. The power that be are ordained of God.

REPENT NOW. RETURN FROM YOUR WAYS.

Broad is the way that lead to destruction.

He that depart from the way of understanding shall abide in the congregation of the dead.

Stop following a counterfeiter.

JESUS IS KING OF KINGS AND LORD OF LORDS.

God our Father in Heaven is the father of all Spirits.

He that is from above is above all

Come to Jesus Christ all you that labour and are heavy ladden and HE will give you rest

Know the TRUTH and it will make you free.

Believers in Jesus Christ are commanders over all other spirits

No Zeus is the KING OF KINGS AND LORDS OF LORDS

The first day of creation was about 2,000 years ago.

I don't know whether to laugh or cry

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If you are unwilling to explain the existence of your deity((God)), then you have no business demanding of me to explain the existence of the Universe.

Oh, really, now! Demonstrate to me the existence of your Deity without resorting to the existence of the Universe as part of your demonstration! Demonstrate to me the existence of your Deity independent of the existence of the Universe! In other words, explain the cause of your Deity rather than the effect of your Deity!

You demand that I explain to you the cause of the Universe but are unwilling to even entertain the cause of your explanation!

You don't really know whether or not their claim is truthful. So why assert it as truth? ,Why not simply admit that it's speculation and stop trying to sell on what you don't even know? Why do you expect me to believe what you tell me when you don't really believe it yourselves?

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