winner01:
Yawns!!!
I dont have your time right now.

I believe when the "aliens" are found, they will point us to the answer. If the answer is "God", would you admit your life-long stupidity?

Dude, you are funny...You spend all your time arguing that atheism is illogical, foolish and stupid, you question them and when they explain, you ridicule them but when asked simple questions about your own beliefs and how it relates to the universe, you reply like this?

AnonyNymous:

Haha, winner, I have never stated there is no god. I just don't believe 'god' is an emotional sky daddy

How did you come to this conclusion?

AnonyNymous:

You don't have anything to say jare Go siddon
Let people that know what they're talking about come and debate

Debate?
You funny shaa'
I recognize a debate if i see one. You cant expect me to take mockery seriously.

winner01:
How did you come to this conclusion?

How did I come to this conclusion? Look around you for once. Lol. I prefer to think that quantum particles, which are aware and present everywhere in nature, are an 'extension' of a remote immaterial entity called 'god'. Its just a hypotheses, but its based on factsfacts

donnffd:


Dude, you are funny...You spend all your time arguing that atheism is illogical, foolish and stupid, you question them and when they explain, you ridicule them but when asked simple questions about your own beliefs and how it relates to the universe, you reply like this?

No, its the other way round.
Atheists come at us with insults, mockery, pseudoscience etc and expect us to take them seriously.
If I sensed an iota of sincerity in your post, i'd have taken it seriously.

My point, relax. You'll know the truth soon.

winner01:
No, its the other way round.
Atheists come at us with insults, mockery, pseudoscience etc and expect us to take them seriously.
If I sensed an iota of sincerity in your post, i'd have taken it seriously.

My point, relax. You'll know the truth soon.

Says the trolll??

AnonyNymous:

How did I come to this conclusion? Look around you for once. Lol. I prefer to think that quantum particles, which are aware and present everywhere in nature, are an 'extension' of a remote immaterial entity called 'god'. Its just a hypotheses, but its based on factsfacts

Whenever I look around me, I see a beautiful design, not unplanned chaos.
Quantum particles are something, and science has continuously shown that something cannot come from nothing. (quantum vacuums are not nothing).

Do you have faith that your hypothesized stand is true?
Also what do you mean by the bolded?

winner01:
Whenever I look around me, I see a beautiful design, not unplanned chaos.
Quantum particles are something, and science has continuously shown that something cannot come from nothing. (quantum vacuums are not nothing).

Do you have faith that your hypothesized stand is true?
Also what do you mean by the bolded?

Those particles know when they're being watched, and behave differently. They 'understand' the world around them. And they are present everywhere in nature. You misunderstand the big bang theory. I suggest you go read up on it if you actually mean to debate and not just sound ignorant. I didn't say something comes from nothing, but as for the trigger of the universe, the big bang seems very plausible. It could be this immaterial entity that triggered the big bang. You could also read up on the multiverse theory. There's just a lot I don't know and I am willing to learn. Religion stops you from doing that. There have been many physical pointers towards the nultiverse theory.
Its not faith, but a well calculated guess, with the probability that I might be wrong

winner01:
Whenever I look around me, I see a beautiful design, not unplanned chaos.

Then U are not really looking.. how do U explain the mosquito that take millions of life every yea? Beautiful design?

Quantum particles are something, and science has continuously shown that something cannot come from nothing. (quantum vacuums are not nothing).

When will U ever get sense? They have corrected U times with out number... who said something came from noting atheist or U??
p.s this is the reason I quote this post.
[/quote]

EyeHateGod:

Then U are not really looking.. how do U explain the mosquito that take millions of life every yea? Beautiful design?

When will U ever get sense? They have corrected U times with out number... who said something came from noting atheist or U??
p.s this is the reason I quote this post.

I do not know what to say. We are all infants in this vast multiverse

donnffd:
Noone can deny the vastness of the galaxy and universe as a whole. There are about One trillion planets in our galaxy alone and even if a small fraction has life, it would be in the millions, so it is safe to say it is inevitable to have intelligent life on some of these worlds.

With SETI(search for extraterrestrial intelligence) gaining more funds and better technology to scan the skies for intelligent signals.

I want to ask you guys, in the event we do discover an intelligent signal from an alien world!

- would these beings also be creatures of God?
- would they look like us hence like God?
- would they also need a saviour?
- would we see them in heaven after we die?
- would the sin that applies to us, also apply to them?
- would they be created from dust like we were?
- would jesus also go to that planet and die for their sins?

I am just curious...

I do not see anything wrong with your question.
Bible is written for us who are created in this world.
It is possible that there may be other universes with other kind of creatures in them whom God communicate with in their kind of way that may be different from ours.
They may be creatures programmed not to have choice but to act as they are programmed to act and in that case may not have anything like sin among them. No one knows yet.
Take for exampls the angels. They have wings and fly but we dont. They dont experience pain as we do here. Jesus didnt die for them. Also in heaven there are some creatures as described in the book of Revelation that are not in the form of human or angels, they have their own different kinds of images. God is a creator whose intelligent is unlimited so he can create as many things as he wants which we may not understand.
What is revealed to us in the bible are just what we(humans) need to know concerning our relationship with God. The bible does not contain all the information about God. And of course all the books in the world joined together will not be enough to write about God who is infinite.
Even the biblical stories are not written in details. For example, if the story of the life of Jesus on earth is written in its entirety then it will be contained in several volumes of books. Bible is just a collection of brief info, the ones that God wants us to make use of in relating with him. The rest information we should know about God will be exposed to us in our personal relationship with him. Thats why christianity encourages personal relationship with God. Bible is a platform that guides us in this personal discoveries.

donnffd:
Noone can deny the vastness of the galaxy and universe as a whole. There are about One trillion planets in our galaxy alone and even if a small fraction has life, it would be in the millions, so it is safe to say it is inevitable to have intelligent life on some of these worlds.

With SETI(search for extraterrestrial intelligence) gaining more funds and better technology to scan the skies for intelligent signals.

I want to ask you guys, in the event we do discover an intelligent signal from an alien world!

- would these beings also be creatures of God?
- would they look like us hence like God?
- would they also need a saviour?
- would we see them in heaven after we die?
- would the sin that applies to us, also apply to them?
- would they be created from dust like we were?
- would jesus also go to that planet and die for their sins?

I am just curious...

Hi Bro!
Every question deserves an answer. However after my answer, I will like to know why the question in the first place.

There are so many things we don't yet understand about the universe but....

Have extraterrestrials been visiting the earth?
There are some evidences even though not conclusive. Some will swear that some sinister things about them is taking place in Area51 (USA).

The Bible suggests that in the past, Extraterrestrials which were referred to as "sons of God" came down to earth and produced Human-"Fallen Angel" hybrid (Nephillims) who we refer (their spirit) to as demons (earth bound/trapped). We will see more of as the end comes near. (As it was in the days of Noah..)

Now to your questions:

- would these beings also be creatures of God?

YES. Why?... there are other strange creatures mentioned in the Bible apart from Angels and demons

- would they look like us hence like God?

Not necessarily based on the point above. Looking like God is not in relation to physical looks but as a Trinitarian being.

- would they also need a saviour?

Why should they need a saviour? Except if their condition is exactly the same as mans. Gods special choosing, love, presence of sin and God having a plan for their redemption.

- would we see them in heaven after we die?

It depends on there dimension of creation as in : Are they made up of spirits, soul and body?

- would the sin that applies to us, also apply to them?

No, it cannot? We inherited the defective spiritual DNA of sin from the first humans.

- would they be created from dust like we were?

Not necessarily. Creation from dust is just in scientific terms making man out of physical elements

- would jesus also go to that planet and die for their sins?

NO! Except the conditions are exactly the same. The Lamb of God was prepared before the creation of the world.

@donnffd
I strongly believe that in the future, we might host aliens here on earth and the sole purpose will be to unite man against God. Prophetically the number of Atheists in the world would seriously outnumber the number of Theists.
Reference: Revelation Chapter 1 to 21

Those who say searching for extraterrestrial life is a useless cause should first consider that the universe is billions of years old. If we were to discover and communicate with an older more intelligent life form they could infinitely multiply our understanding of the universe. The benefits to mankind would be immense (far more than the billions or trillions it would take to find and communicate with them) they could propel us into unprecedented growth. You'd have to be very simple minded to not see the benefits.

shadeyinka:


Hi Bro!
Every question deserves an answer. However after my answer, I will like to know why the question in the first place.

There are so many things we don't yet understand about the universe but....

Have extraterrestrials been visiting the earth?
There are some evidences even though not conclusive. Some will swear that some sinister things about them is taking place in Area51 (USA).

The Bible suggests that in the past, Extraterrestrials which were referred to as "sons of God" came down to earth and produced Human-"Fallen Angel" hybrid (Nephillims) who we refer (their spirit) to as demons (earth bound/trapped). We will see more of as the end comes near. (As it was in the days of Noah..)

Now to your questions:


YES. Why?... there are other strange creatures mentioned in the Bible apart from Angels and demons



Not necessarily based on the point above. Looking like God is not in relation to physical looks but as a Trinitarian being.


Why should they need a saviour? Except if their condition is exactly the same as mans. Gods special choosing, love, presence of sin and God having a plan for their redemption.



It depends on there dimension of creation as in : Are they made up of spirits, soul and body?



No, it cannot? We inherited the defective spiritual DNA of sin from the first humans.


Not necessarily. Creation from dust is just in scientific terms making man out of physical elements


NO! Except the conditions are exactly the same. The Lamb of God was prepared before the creation of the world.

@donnffd
I strongly believe that in the future, we might host aliens here on earth and the sole purpose will be to unite man against God. Prophetically the number of Atheists in the world would seriously outnumber the number of Theists.
Reference: Revelation Chapter 1 to 21

Superb response.

Even though i don't agree with many of the predictions you made, i believe its a response that requires applauding.

donnffd:


Superb response.

Even though i don't agree with many of the predictions you made, i believe its a response that requires applauding.

Thanks Bro.

I will like to ask you a question.
Is it possible to scientifically comprehend or describe the physical sciences devoid of time space. i.e. if time doesn't exist would the laws of nature make any sense?

shadeyinka:


Thanks Bro.

I will like to ask you a question.
Is it possible to scientifically comprehend or describe the physical sciences devoid of time space. i.e. if time doesn't exist would the laws of nature make any sense?

No, its not possible. The four fundamental laws depends on the existence of time and so if time doesnt exist, the laws also dont exist!

donnffd:


No, its not possible. The four fundamental laws depends on the existence of time and so if time doesnt exist, the laws also dont exist!

The Spirit rhelm or where God dwells is supposed to be timeless, don't you think that our lack of scientific evidences of the spiritual is based on this single fact?

As Atheists are we not claiming a knowledge that is beyond us i.e. using the limited physical laws time-wise to attempt comprehending the impossible and them coming up with an answer.

A few days ago, I was trying to visualize a universe in 2 dimensional space of course plus time. It was impossible, try it. It made me pounder on a universe without time (eternity) and realized that maybe you as atheists have assumed too much.

Except if it is IMPOSSIBLE to have a timeless universe!

Your comment?

Sorry I didn't intend to derail your post I thought I had answered the question in your original post.

shadeyinka:


The Spirit rhelm or where God dwells is supposed to be timeless, don't you think that our lack of scientific evidences of the spiritual is based on this single fact?

If the spiritual is outside the universe, then they cant be any evidence for it, but we hear people talking about spirits and spirtual encounters which makes alot of skeptics like myself ask for evidence for these so called encounters.

As Atheists are we not claiming a knowledge that is beyond us i.e. using the limited physical laws time-wise to attempt comprehending the impossible and them coming up with an answer.

The simple answer is No, Atheists do not make a claim, infact they are the first that would say "i dont know", Noone knows whats outside the universe and what was before the universe began, the issue comes when theists claims they know what is outside the universe and that thing is God. So you see, theists are the ones claiming knowledge that is beyond us, not the atheist.

A few days ago, I was trying to visualize a universe in 2 dimensional space of course plus time. It was impossible, try it. It made me pounder on a universe without time (eternity) and realized that maybe you as atheists have assumed too much.

It is possible to imagine a universe with just 2 dimensions, the issue arise when you ask these 2dimensional beings to imagine the third dimension, just as how we as 3 dimensional beings would find it difficult to imagine a 4dimensional universe. Like i said earlier, Atheists dont make claims, they simply say they dont know, theists makes the claim that God is outside the universe but when asked for evidence, there is none to back up the claim, and so atheists just reject the claim.

Sorry I didn't intend to derail your post I thought I had answered the question in your original post.

No issues, i always love our discussions.

donnffd:


If the spiritual is outside the universe, then they cant be any evidence for it, but we hear people talking about spirits and spirtual encounters which makes alot of skeptics like myself ask for evidence for these so called encounters.

I guess the problem is that you seek a PHYSICAL evidence. Most of the encounters are on the experiential level. Like I can never forget the first time God spoke to me. It was a single word, NO! and that word was like a library of information. I just knew exactly what it meant. Was there any explanation? No! It is difficult to explain, its an information that you just know that you know that you know.

The atheist ask a question similar to: "prove to me that you dreamed you were eating lunch with Obama at the white House?". Even if the dream was 100% true, would any evidence be adequate to the skeptic? Is the dream experience true? YES! Can it be physically proved? NO!

donnffd:

The simple answer is No, Atheists do not make a claim, infact they are the first that would say "i dont know", Noone knows whats outside the universe and what was before the universe began, the issue comes when theists claims they know what is outside the universe and that thing is God. So you see, theists are the ones claiming knowledge that is beyond us, not the atheist.

I still think both Atheist and Theists make a strong emphatic claim.
Theist: I don't know everything BUT I am certain GOD made the Universe.

Atheist: I don't know everything BUT I am certain that NO GOD made the Universe.

I am aware of the so called Agnostic Atheist: they claim agnosticism while they in actual sense are pure Atheist.
For many of them, they are in a state of " I don't care" if God exist, "I cannot bow to any God"

donnffd:

It is possible to imagine a universe with just 2 dimensions, the issue arise when you ask these 2dimensional beings to imagine the third dimension, just as how we as 3 dimensional beings would find it difficult to imagine a 4dimensional universe. Like i said earlier, Atheists dont make claims, they simply say they dont know, theists makes the claim that God is outside the universe but when asked for evidence, there is none to back up the claim, and so atheists just reject the claim.

I agree with you. With some stress, one can imagine a limited form of a 2D universe but moving from 3D to 4D will be absolutely impossible. The commonest form of illustration of the spiritual rhelm is the dream. Anything is possible in a dream. It is even possible to have a dream within a dream, time is meaningless etc. I am not implying that the spiritual state is strictly like the dream ( I just use it to explain the unknown with the known).

Isn't it the same dilemma with the 4th dimension of the spirit rhelm?

I will ask you to do a study of several compilation of deliverance sessions and without dropping your skeptic mindset perform some analysis. With a pinch of salt, assume that the demonized is acting and speaking from an experimental point of view.

Maybe Theism is not as dumb as you Atheists portray it to be.

donnffd:

No issues, i always love our discussions.

Appreciated

shadeyinka:


I guess the problem is that you seek a PHYSICAL evidence. Most of the encounters are on the experiential level. Like I can never forget the first time God spoke to me. It was a single word, NO! and that word was like a library of information. I just knew exactly what it meant. Was there any explanation? No! It is difficult to explain, its an information that you just know that you know that you know.

The atheist ask a question similar to: "prove to me that you dreamed you were eating lunch with Obama at the white House?". Even if the dream was 100% true, would any evidence be adequate to the skeptic? Is the dream experience true? YES! Can it be physically proved? NO!

First, Atheism is the disbelief in God or Gods, its not a religion or a doctrine, so not all atheists agree on the same issues, so what i would say now is entirely my own opinion.

There is a difference between a subjective experience and an objective experience, i cant ask you how you see the color red, and not because i cant do it physically, but because you cant explain in terms which any person would understand.

The experience of red is as subjective as it gets.

So when claim is made, i personally look at it this way, is it subjective or objective?, if it is subjective, like it was an inner voice, or a dream, there is no way you can explain that to me, so i cant ask you for evidence the same way i cant ask you to explain red, but if it is objective, something that wasnt only experienced by you but by others as well, then that claim can be scrutinized and demand of evidence is mandated.

I still think both Atheist and Theists make a strong emphatic claim.
Theist: I don't know everything BUT I am certain GOD made the Universe.

Atheist: I don't know everything BUT I am certain that NO GOD made the Universe.

I am aware of the so called Agnostic Atheist: they claim agnosticism while they in actual sense are pure Atheist.
For many of them, they are in a state of " I don't care" if God exist, "I cannot bow to any God"

There is a miswording @bolded, Now i dont know about other atheists but my reason for belief is and has to be based on evidence.

People over the centuries have claimed that yahweh, allah, zeus, vishnu, sango, obatala, odin, ra e.t.c made the universe, Noone has brought reasonable evidence for their claims, and so i choose to reject their claims and withhold belief.

Now does that mean i claim that No God exists?, No.

It depends on what you define as God, Einstein believed God was the summation of all the physical laws of the universe, if thats the case, then, yes, obviously God exists.

So you see its about definition and evidence, i cant say there isnt something outside the universe intelligent that created the universe, i have no evidence to make that claim, all i can do is examine the one presented before and make my conclusion, if in the future, evidence was found that the universe was created by a race of spiritual beings, thats great, but right now all the claims have no grounds and so i reject them.

I agree with you. With some stress, one can imagine a limited form of a 2D universe but moving from 3D to 4D will be absolutely impossible. The commonest form of illustration of the spiritual rhelm is the dream. Anything is possible in a dream. It is even possible to have a dream within a dream, time is meaningless etc. I am not implying that the spiritual state is strictly like the dream ( I just use it to explain the unknown with the known).

Isn't it the same dilemma with the 4th dimension of the spirit rhelm?

I will ask you to do a study of several compilation of deliverance sessions and without dropping your skeptic mindset perform some analysis. With a pinch of salt, assume that the demonized is acting and speaking from an experimental point of view.

Maybe Theism is not as dumb as you Atheists portray it to be.

I still find dreams as a connection to the spiritual not a worthy explanation, why?, because dogs dream, chimps dream, even dolphins.

So are these animals also in connection to the spiritual?

Dreams are obviously a product of a advanced brain, if there was no brain, there would be no dreams. So i find out that most of the spiritual realm cant survive without physical stuffs, and why is that?

donnffd:


First, Atheism is the disbelief in God or Gods, its not a religion or a doctrine, so not all atheists agree on the same issues, so what i would say now is entirely my own opinion.

There is a difference between a subjective experience and an objective experience, i cant ask you how you see the color red, and not because i cant do it physically, but because you cant explain in terms which any person would understand.

The experience of red is as subjective as it gets.

So when claim is made, i personally look at it this way, is it subjective or objective?, [b]if it is subjective, like it was an inner voice, or a dream, there is no way you can explain that to me, so i cant ask you for evidence [/b]the same way i cant ask you to explain red, but if it is objective, something that wasnt only experienced by you but by others as well, then that claim can be scrutinized and demand of evidence is mandated.

Then, it will be an endless cycle as you rightly said, spiritual experience are subjective in nature in that 10 people can be in a room and each experience a totally different phenomenon. So the question is can a subjective experience be proved right or wrong. If it has no proof, is the conclusion that it isn't real?

Like, I tasted the sweetest tea I've ever drank yesterday!
A proof will requre at least two reference points of the historical record of the subject taste of tea which is impossible. Even though, no evidence can be provided, does it invalidate the original statement?

donnffd:

There is a miswording @bolded, Now i dont know about other atheists but my reason for belief is and has to be based on evidence.

People over the centuries have claimed that yahweh, allah, zeus, vishnu, sango, obatala, odin, ra e.t.c made the universe, Noone has brought reasonable evidence for their claims, and so i choose to reject their claims and withhold belief.

Now does that mean i claim that No God exists?, No.

I think I understand your "brand" of atheism: the Agnostic type. However, I think that in the true sense of the word, agnostics are NOT searching for an answer. It looks like the failure of (others) Theists in presenting a unified personality God AND the lack of reproducible objective evidence is the basis for your rejection of the Theist position.

Now, as an agnostic Atheist, have you shut down to finding that God by yourself if He exists? If you are, are you strictly using the yardstick of objective/ physical evidence knowing that non exists?

Depending on your answers above, if God ( per chance exists), can you ever find Him? If the answer is NO! Then, logics says if you are concerned about the truth, then, you must either
Ask the right Questions or
Use the right Instruments

The right Question/Instrument will not be of Objective nature but Subjective.

donnffd:

It depends on what you define as God, Einstein believed God was the summation of all the physical laws of the universe, if thats the case, then, yes, obviously God exists.

So you see its about definition and evidence, i cant say there isnt something outside the universe intelligent that created the universe, i have no evidence to make that claim, all i can do is examine the one presented before and make my conclusion, if in the future, evidence was found that the universe was created by a race of spiritual beings, thats great, but right now all the claims have no grounds and so i reject them.

If Einsteins definition of God is what Theists hold, there would not have been any schism BTW Theists and Atheists. Theists definition of God in hinged on an Intelligent Consciousness who set everything in motion.

Since all claims by theists fail the objective test Atheists requires maybe atheists are a little to dogmatic about insisting on an objective proof even when it is clearly evident that such kind of proof is not feasible.

donnffd:

I still find dreams as a connection to the spiritual not a worthy explanation, why?, because dogs dream, chimps dream, even dolphins.

So are these animals also in connection to the spiritual?

Dreams are obviously a product of a advanced brain, if there was no brain, there would be no dreams. So i find out that most of the spiritual realm cant survive without physical stuffs, and why is that?

Oh, here I was just comparing the kind of world we seem to live in when dreaming as similar to spiritual experiences. In a dream , nothing is impossible!

shadeyinka:


Then, it will be an endless cycle as you rightly said, spiritual experience are subjective in nature in that 10 people can be in a room and each experience a totally different phenomenon. So the question is can a subjective experience be proved right or wrong. If it has no proof, is the conclusion that it isn't real?

Like, I tasted the sweetest tea I've ever drank yesterday!
A proof will requre at least two reference points of the historical record of the subject taste of tea which is impossible. Even though, no evidence can be provided, does it invalidate the original statement?

I understand perfectly and i agree, if spiritual experiences are subjective experiences, then there is no way of proving it and obviously no logical way of concluding its not real, but problems arises when it comes to subjective experiences, for instance:

The color Red, it doesnt exist physically in nature, there is nothing like an objective Red, infact we can say Red doesnt exist, but we all see Red subjectively.

A sweet tea is not sweet, sweetness is not a physical property of the tea, infact sweetness doesnt exist, it only becomes sweet when we experience it, it is subjective.

So you see bro, subjective experiences might not necessarily be unreal but it still doesnt guarantee the existence of the source of the experience.

I think I understand your "brand" of atheism: the Agnostic type. However, I think that in the true sense of the word, agnostics are NOT searching for an answer. It looks like the failure of (others) Theists in presenting a unified personality God AND the lack of reproducible objective evidence is the basis for your rejection of the Theist position.

Now, as an agnostic Atheist, have you shut down to finding that God by yourself if He exists? If you are, are you strictly using the yardstick of objective/ physical evidence knowing that non exists?

Depending on your answers above, if God ( per chance exists), can you ever find Him? If the answer is NO! Then, logics says if you are concerned about the truth, then, you must either
Ask the right Questions or
Use the right Instruments

The right Question/Instrument will not be of Objective nature but Subjective.

Yes, i am an agnostic atheist.

No, i havent, if God as described in religion does exist, i would want to find him.

Then again, i have an issue with the manner in which i am to find him. Like i tried to explain earlier, subjective experiences are not necessarily unreal but can be unsure. I might feel something and hear something, but what is the assurance that what i am feeling and hearing is from God or its just my brain hallucinating?, if its not objective enough, how can i be sure its part of the Natural world?... These are issues that arises when it comes to subjectively looking for God, i would prefer an objective manner which would be clear to all, and if it is insisted that subjective manner is the way, then it just means that God like Red is just a subjective experience.

If Einsteins definition of God is what Theists hold, there would not have been any schism BTW Theists and Atheists. Theists definition of God in hinged on an Intelligent Consciousness who set everything in motion.

Since all claims by theists fail the objective test Atheists requires maybe atheists are a little to dogmatic about insisting on an objective proof even when it is clearly evident that such kind of proof is not feasible.

Atheists ask for objective evidence because thats the only evidence that can be assuring, if God is only subjective, then he can mean anything to anyone, thereby not being independent of our subjective experience.

Oh, here I was just comparing the kind of world we seem to live in when dreaming as similar to spiritual experiences. In a dream , nothing is impossible!

Ok, so if God can only be known through subjective experience, then i think Atheists are right to conclude he doesnt exist, because something that can only be described subjectively like Redness or Sweetness can never be regarded as a real property of reality and just exists in our senses.

donnffd:


I understand perfectly and i agree, if spiritual experiences are subjective experiences, then there is no way of proving it and obviously no logical way of concluding its not real, but problems arises when it comes to subjective experiences, for instance:

I concur!

donnffd:

The color Red, it doesnt exist physically in nature, there is nothing like an objective Red, infact we can say Red doesnt exist, but we all see Red subjectively.

A sweet tea is not sweet, sweetness is not a physical property of the tea, infact sweetness doesnt exist, it only becomes sweet when we experience it, it is subjective.

So you see bro, subjective experiences might not necessarily be unreal but it still doesnt guarantee the existence of the source of the experience.

Subjective experiences I agree does not guarantee the reality of an experience. Like colour Red is just a function of the incoming e.m. radiation having the range of wavelengths we define as Red. Sweetness is the pleasurable sensation of sugar-sweet or salt-sweet sensation on our taste buds.

But we can't say based on our collective experiences that both red and sweet doesn't exist. For example take any ordinary tea, add sufficient quantity of sugar and ask any normal human being the question: "Is this cup of tea sweet or bitter?"

I am sure all normal human beings will come to the same conclusion even if they have not tasted the tea. This little experiment is enough to conclude that sweetness does exist (however not from the physical P.O.V).

The reality of subjective experiences are functions of our senses. The physical descriptions of the cause and effect may be different but if our senses (physical, emotional, psychological etc) registers it, then such object, entity or attribute exists and such existence may have a contrary physical definition.

donnffd:

Yes, i am an agnostic atheist.

No, i havent, if God as described in religion does exist, i would want to find him.

I am glad to hear this!

donnffd:

Then again, i have an issue with the manner in which i am to find him. Like i tried to explain earlier, subjective experiences are not necessarily unreal but can be unsure. I might feel something and hear something, but what is the assurance that what i am feeling and hearing is from God or its just my brain hallucinating?, if its not objective enough, how can i be sure its part of the Natural world?...

I perfectly agree with you. One can indeed be sometimes unsure of spiritual experiences because the rules are different from the common physical rules we are used to. Sometimes, it is like listening to news using a defective antenna.

Speaking about spiritual antennas, we all have them but at the same time, we generate so much internal noise that clutter and drown out spiritual signals. It is far much easier using our physical senses than spiritual senses so as humans we walk more by sight.

Hearing a radio news from a defective antenna might require
1. A knowledge that information is being transmitted for your benefit.
2. You tune to the required freq eleminating as much noise as possible
3. Patiently wait for the signal/
4. Acting (by faith) on the recieved information

Point 1, is where most Atheist fail. Even if there were radio information, a disbelieve will make it unnessary to tune for the information not to talk of waiting or patience.

donnffd:

These are issues that arises when it comes to subjectively looking for God, i would prefer an objective manner which would be clear to all, and if it is insisted that subjective manner is the way, then it just means that God like Red is just a subjective experience.

Me too o! I will prefar an objective experience over a subjective experience unfortunately, I didn't make the Rules or the Layers of superposition of existence. No matter how I prefer the land line telephone, the rules are different from the gsm hence, to use the gsm phone, I must follow their rules. I can't insist on the use of Morse code for digital TV broadcast because I am a genus of Morse code deciphering.

donnffd:

Atheists ask for objective evidence because thats the only evidence that can be assuring, if God is only subjective, then he can mean anything to anyone, thereby not being independent of our subjective experience.

God being experienced at a subjective level does not mean that He can mean anything to anyone rather, there are "noises" and deliberate misinformation that exists on the communication channel. That has always being the position of Christians.

donnffd:

Ok, so if God can only be known through subjective experience, then i think Atheists are right to conclude he doesnt exist, because something that can only be described subjectively like Redness or Sweetness can never be regarded as a real property of reality and just exists in our senses.

This is a summarily dismissal of thought. Imagine you are a soldier on the battlefield, must you physically see the commander in chief before you act on commands received through other communication channels? Every indirect form of communication can be termed "subjective"

donnffd:
Noone can deny the vastness of the galaxy and universe as a whole. There are about One trillion planets in our galaxy alone and even if a small fraction has life, it would be in the millions, so it is safe to say it is inevitable to have intelligent life on some of these worlds.

With SETI(search for extraterrestrial intelligence) gaining more funds and better technology to scan the skies for intelligent signals.

I want to ask you guys, in the event we do discover an intelligent signal from an alien world!

- would these beings also be creatures of God?
- would they look like us hence like God?
- would they also need a saviour?
- would we see them in heaven after we die?
- would the sin that applies to us, also apply to them?
- would they be created from dust like we were?
- would jesus also go to that planet and die for their sins?

I am just curious...

You don't understand conventional religion. Very logical question, but as far as our conventional religions are concerned, humans on earth are all that matters, because religion does not know the existance of other planets, all we see in the sky are stars. That is religion

donnffd:


Build a premise?, are you kidding me?...i only asked some questions that would come up in the event we discover intelligent extraterrestrial life. You refusal to accept it as a valid question portrays you lack of confidence and fear.




It seems you did not read the piece, i asked in the event we find an intelligent signal which SETI is right now looking for, what would be the answers of these questions?

Stop dodging and simply quench my curiosity

Sorry, he is right, your premise is incompatible with religion (christianity in particular)

AnonyNymous:

Building premises on well calculated hypotheses is what has advanced science to this point. That phone you're using is one of the products.

Comeon!!!
The op is wrong is on this. He is asking christians to explain something christians don't even believe in.
His premise is wrong.
Christians don't believe in other planets, they only believe in earth, heaven and hell. So why ask them about extra terrestrials? Comeone!

HardMirror:

Comeon!!!
The op is wrong is on this. He is asking christians to explain something christians don't even believe in.
His premise is wrong.
Christians don't believe in other planets, they only believe in earth, heaven and hell. So why ask them about extra terrestrials? Comeone!

Yes sir

HardMirror:

Sorry, he is right, your premise is incompatible with religion (christianity in particular)

In his case, it was an assumption that Christianity was based on logical reasoning. . . therefore the questions of 'what if. . .' but in Christianity, there is no 'what if', everything is dictated by the book containing combined writings of drunken herdsmen and medieval scholars
donnffd

HardMirror:

Comeon!!!
The op is wrong is on this. He is asking christians to explain something christians don't even believe in.
His premise is wrong.
Christians don't believe in other planets, they only believe in earth, heaven and hell. So why ask them about extra terrestrials? Comeone!

Christians don't believe in other planets? How, where, and when? Christians knew there were extra terrestrial powers when the world's wisest were still amazed at mirrors.

donnffd:
Noone can deny the vastness of the galaxy and universe as a whole. There are about One trillion planets in our galaxy alone and even if a small fraction has life, it would be in the millions, so it is safe to say it is inevitable to have intelligent life on some of these worlds.

With SETI(search for extraterrestrial intelligence) gaining more funds and better technology to scan the skies for intelligent signals.

I want to ask you guys, in the event we do discover an intelligent signal from an alien world!

- would these beings also be creatures of God?

All things were made by Him.

- would they look like us hence like God?

No reason why they should. Not all creatures look alike, or do goats look like humans?

- would they also need a saviour?

Who cares? Mind your own business would be very apt.

- would we see them in heaven after we die?

For what? Irrelevant, more relevant is if we ourselves get to Heaven. It does not appear what will be like in Heaven.

- would the sin that applies to us, also apply to them?

No, my sins are mine, and given to Jesus anyway.

- would they be created from dust like we were?

Should they?

- would jesus also go to that planet and die for their sins?

I am just curious...

If He has to.