Kobojunkie:
Which one be 90%? Even out here in the US, many of the young ibo couples I have have at least 3, more have 4 or more.

How old are their kids? I said 21st century couples. We are six in my family and two of my 4 older siblings are done with child bearing. Others i knew in my neighborhood while growing up are the same. It doesn't mean there are no 8 kids etc. As a matter of fact, there are still some polygamists but their population is infinitesimal.

Aloy`Emeka:

Not the 21st C generation of igbo nuclear families. It's very rare to find young igbo couples with more than 4 children unless they are looking for a male child. 90% of them have 2 or 3 children and no plan of having more.

That's a keen observation, but it goes both ways. A lot of them are not satisfied with only male children so they ''try'' for the princess. My parents never planned to have more than four children but the absence of a female child made that decision invalid.

Aloy`Emeka:

Not the 21st C generation of igbo nuclear families. It's very rare to find young igbo couples with more than 4 children unless they are looking for a male child. 90% of them have 2 or 3 children and no plan of having more.

actually, its not that rare.

2-3 children is what's comparatively rarer.


By young Igbo couples do you mean under 25-30 years of age (wife). Having 2-3 kids by that age doesnt mean they wont have more later.

A higher percentage of young igbo parents are between 30-40 and I am telling you that 2-3 is very common among them. Go to the east and take the statistics. They say it themselves and most of the parents will use their own family to make you understand why they made such decision. Breeding many children is so old school among igbos.  If a couple's last child is 7 for example, It's an indication that they want no more children. many of them however, leave one space for accidental pregnancy that may come along the line. Abortion rate is very low among igbos because of their predominant catholic faith.

30 to 40 having only 2 to 3 kids in the east? You sure??

I am one out of seven children, so I think this guy is exaggerating, Igbos have babies. When Igbo fertility rate goes below 2.1 (replacement level) then we can sound the alarms, but I think this guy is just too ethnocentric. .

Aloy`Emeka:

A higher percentage of young igbo parents are between 30-40 and I am telling you that 2-3 is very common among them. Go to the east and take the statistics. They say it themselves and most of the parents will use their own family to make you understand why they made such decision. Breeding many children is so old school among igbos.  If a couple's last child is 7 for example, It's an indication that they want no more children. many of them however, leave one space for accidental pregnancy that may come along the line. Abortion rate is very low among igbos because of their predominant catholic faith.

i hope you know the Catholic faith also encourages large family structure, in addition to discouraging abortion.

Very very sure. Go and see for yourself. All these crap they are saying about igbo and middleclass stems from family size if you look at it very well. I am sure that i would have had a lot more resources growing up if we were only three in my house. Go to Plateau, Kano, Ibadan etc and watch many young hausa and Yoruba families popping children and you ask them why, they don't know. Islam is a big contributing factor to that. If you doubt me, check 21st C yoruba parents that are christians and compare their average lifestyle and family size  with their counterpart muslims.

tpia.:

i hope you know the Catholic faith also encourages large family structure, in addition to discouraging abortion.

That's a lie. They encourage family planning in every catholic church in the east for mostly illiterate couples. It's usually Thursday evenings. If catholic churches encourage large family structure, then Anambra people who constitute the highest number of catholics in Nigeria will be more populated than any igbo state.

Kobojunkie:

30 to 40 having only 2 to 3 kids in the east? You sure??

It is true even though you might 1 in 7 see above 3

asha 80:

It is true even though you might 1 in 7 see above 3

UUmm, I am not 1 out of 7 and I don't know a lot of ibo couples of that age with less than 3 kids. In fact, some lost a child or two to end up with less but many more have about 4.

Kobojunkie:

UUmm, I am not 1 out of 7 and I don't know a lot of ibo couples of that age with less than 3 kids. In fact, some lost a child or two to end up with less but many more have about 4.

Like the Senator opined he is aware of the economic climate in nigeria.I guess people you know are mostly based in US.Nigerian economy is a different kettle of fish.Most parents from that side of the country are not ready to bring babies they are not sure of they can train these days.Hence the tendency for fewer babies.

grafikdon:

That's a keen observation, but it goes both ways. A lot of them are not satisfied with only male children so they ''try'' for the princess. My parents never planned to have more than four children but the absence of a female child made that decision invalid.

My uncle owns a fleet of 911 trucks in Onitsha and life is good for him financially. His wife had 6 boys and no girl and he freaked out, became born again simply because he wanted a female child badly. Then came the 7th and 8th child all boys and he gave up. His wife started dressing the last son like a girl just to satisfy her husband's psyche and he eventually changed his name to Uwaezuoke.  When my dad asked him about his name change, he told him that he realized very late in life that you can never have it all. Lately, his first son married and popped twin boys; then the 2nd son married and their first child was a girl[early December 2003/4] and Uwaezuoke threw a big party during the Christmas for his grand daughter and named her, Somadina[I will never be alone], gave 10 secondary sch kids scholarship that day. Up till now, he has 4 grand children and only one girl but he tells my dad that he gives thanks to God everyday for letting him see a girl born into his home and he hopes to live till the day she will marry.

I can't say that I agree at all with the so-called Ebonyi senator's assessment in a country that doesn't keep record of anything, be it crime, legal convictions, death or birth of its citizens.  But I can ABSOLUTLY understands his mindset and where he is coming from in a typical Nigerian power game which he is part and parcel of it.

Wasn't Nigeria political culture and thinking awashed with the idea that over-population is an ace to be cherished?
Isn't projection of over population the criterial for sharing the oil booty?
Isn't what Nigerian crooked census figures all about?
Where those that claimed to be over populated are given the lion share of the money that doesn't belong to them?

Isn't it funny that the same mob on Nairaland that will always taunt Igbos about how they will soon become a minority because of what they called small population from their corrupt census figure, are the same people ushering their usual advise that over population is bad , especially for Ndigbo? Double standard or what?

This is typical Nigerian character at it's very best, they will change their opinion to match their track of hatred of IGBOS without realising it, even when they were right, but on a false reasons and premics.

Traditionally, Igbo are not know to having too many children and polygamy among Igbos is a borrowed culture, especially among those desperate to produce a certain sex, because it's enshrine in our psyche that it abomination(nso ani)for a an to produce a child he cannot train and begging is a taboo in Igbo culture till today.

My two brothers, each has two kids and I have just one.

smh and this dude is a lawmaker?

tpia.:

i hope you know the Catholic faith also encourages large family structure, in addition to discouraging abortion.

link=topic=333388.msg4688849#msg4688849 date=1254955852:

Catholic countries have Europe's lowest birth rates: Britain's population set to rise as women have children later in life
BIRTH RATES in some of the richest countries of north-west Europe have risen in the 1990s after two decades of decline, writes Steve Connor. By contrast, poorer countries in southern Europe, often Roman Catholic and thought to have traditions of large families, now have the lowest birth rates.

By contrast, birth rates in southern Europe have fallen rapidly since about 1980, he said. 'We are now in the bizarre position where Catholic Spain and Catholic Italy are vying for position as the lowest birth rate country.'

Even Catholic Ireland has experienced a remarkable fall in birth rates in recent years.

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/catholic-countries-have-europes-lowest-birth-rates-britains-population-set-to-rise-as-women-have-children-later-in-life-1386740.html

mind you the population in NW europe(Britain) is also due to immigrants esp from africa.

as long as Nigeria exists, all christian folks or tribes will become marginlized, the igbo even faster because of almost all of them are christians and anti polygamists.

Aloy`Emeka:

Very very sure. Go and see for yourself. All these crap they are saying about igbo and middleclass stems from family size if you look at it very well. I am sure that i would have had a lot more resources growing up if we were only three in my house. Go to Plateau, Kano, Ibadan etc and watch many young hausa and Yoruba families popping children and you ask them why, they don't know. Islam is a big contributing factor to that. If you doubt me, check 21st C yoruba parents that are christians and compare their average lifestyle and family size  with their counterpart muslims.

Aloy`Emeka:

That's a lie. They encourage family planning in every catholic church in the east for mostly illiterate couples. It's usually Thursday evenings. If catholic churches encourage large family structure, then Anambra people who constitute the highest number of catholics in Nigeria will be more populated than any igbo state.

you are daydreaming.

The Catholic church encourages large families- 98% of my friends who are Catholic and not even Igbo, have families of at least 5 and its not uncommon to see 8 to 10 kids in staunch Catholic familes, all things being equal.

The Church also disapproves of any birth control besides the rhythm method, so crunch the numbers and figure out how many unexpected pregnancies have resulted without the option of abortion. Also calculate refusal on the man's part to use condom which is frowned on by the church and which also even many non-Catholic Africans wont use since they say its their wife.

Compare this scenario to say a polygamous Yoruba man who marries 3 wives and has three kids from each of them. The ones with multiple wives >4 and whose number of children is >15 arent a majority unless maybe in muslim or uneducated regions.

The birth control rate in developed countries is dropping because many Catholic Europeans tend to be extremely nominal, and in any case, the better a European family is financially, the less number of children they tend to have, except in Africa and the Arab world, where people want as many kids as possible regardless of social status. Gani alone had 10 or 11 kids from two wives. However, one woman can also produce that same number of children.

And even so, some educated Yorubas have few children- maybe 1 or 2- but most times such people are a minority and the couple may actually have some fertility problems hence the fewer kids. A few highly educated Igbo may also have 2-3 kids but i wouldnt say its a general thing.

mekuslogan:

Family size (large or small) is a personal/family business. Its negative effect has been telling on Hausa and average Yoruba families who remain mostly impoverished compared to an average Igbo family. That said, Igbos should not overpopulate themselves because of the tribal politics of Nigeria. After all, Nigeria will soon perish and a moderate Igbo population will be good for a Biafran country.

What a load of bully shyte.

tpia.:



you are daydreaming.

The Catholic church encourages large families- 98% of my friends who are Catholic and not even Igbo, have families of at least 5 and its not uncommon to see 8 to 10 kids in staunch Catholic familes, all things being equal.

The Church also disapproves of any birth control besides the rhythm method, so crunch the numbers and figure out how many unexpected pregnancies have resulted without the option of abortion. Also calculate refusal on the man's part to use condom which is frowned on by the church and which also even many non-Catholic Africans wont use since they say its their wife.

Compare this scenario to say a polygamous Yoruba man who marries 3 wives and has three kids from each of them. The ones with multiple wives >4 and whose number of children is >15 arent a majority unless maybe in muslim or uneducated regions.

The birth control rate in developed countries is dropping because many Catholic Europeans tend to be extremely nominal, and in any case, the better a European family is financially, the less number of children they tend to have, except in Africa and the Arab world, where people want as many kids as possible regardless of social status. Gani alone had 10 or 11 kids from two wives. However, one woman can also produce that same number of children.

And even so, some educated Yorubas have few children- maybe 1 or 2- but most times such people are a minority and the couple may actually have some fertility problems hence the fewer kids. A few highly educated Igbo may also have 2-3 kids but i wouldnt say its a general thing.

First and foremost, family population is not dependent on religious faith. Your local pastor will not impregnate your wife for you. If catholic faith encourages large family, why are the white proprietors of the church not following their orders?. Why is Anambra not the most populated state at least in igboland?. Everything should not boil down to argument. If you have proof otherwise that Anambra and Enugu catholic parents have multitude of children against their Abia counterparts who are largely Presbyterian or methodist Imo state, let me know.

Your number crunching is theoretical. Take a trip to the east and do your survey. May be these igbo couples are not fertile, who knows but I do not see any difference in birth rates according to religious faith. You forgot that igbo women are the most educated in Nigeria and you think they will allow a man to keep knocking them up like a dog because they are catholic. I've never heard this catholic encouraging large families and multiple children except from you. Thank you for the information but it does not translate to reality.

After reading through some drivels posted by few deluded contributors, I resourcefully concluded the few that fell in the class of deluded contributors do not understand the meaning of some of words employed in their essays.

For example, they seemed to be lacking in the understanding of words such illiterate, literate, educated, trained and education. Please no fun intended because I drew the conclusion from the flagrant manner in which the words were used in their posts.

In addition, some of these know-it-all cyber genii seemed to negate the important role population or lack thereof plays in dispensation of democracy in particular and economy in general.

They wants people to procreate and yet they are stealing the future of the kids, i wonder what they wants the parents to feed them with.
Bush man with cave mentality.

Fhemmmy:

They wants people to procreate and yet they are stealing the future of the kids, i wonder what they wants the parents to feed them with.
Bush man with cave mentality.

^^This guy certainly has a degree in Yoruba. What blatant murder of English laguage!

Na so we see it o o

mekuslogan:

^^This guy certainly has a degree in Yoruba. What blatant murder of English laguage!

lol yea sure. . . . . .

mekuslogan:

^^This guy certainly has a degree in Yoruba. What blatant murder of English laguage!

laguage right?

mumu

Dede1

Population is important in Nigeria where number counts but I don't think Igbo people are shrinking in population and need to start having 20 kids they cant raise.
I believe in quality not quantity. 80 million destitute Igbos is no match to 40 million highly educated and fully equipped Igbos. A few countries in Europe where able to subjugate the whole of Africa and practically the whole world not because of their large population which we know they don't have but because they had knowledge, weapons, and other advantages.

Biafra would have won if not that Britain supplied Nigeria with weapons. Unlike Nigerians the Biafrans were far more intelligent and made their own weapons so intelligence is better than having high population of useless people. I do understand how population can also be an advantage but Ndi Igbo will have to go about it gradually. I think Igbo people should go for average size and 6 being the max unless you can afford to train more than 6 kids adequately. Do it based on the size of your wallet. Plan it accordingly. No need to rush.

udezue:

Dede1

Population is important in Nigeria where number counts but I don't think Igbo people are shrinking in population and need to start having 20 kids they cant raise.
I believe in quality not quantity. 80 million destitute Igbos is no match to 40 million highly educated and fully equipped Igbos. A few countries in Europe where able to subjugate the whole of Africa and practically the whole world not because of their large population which we know they don't have but because they had knowledge, weapons, and other advantages.

Biafra would have won if not that Britain supplied Nigeria with weapons. Unlike Nigerians the Biafrans were far more intelligent and made their own weapons so intelligence is better than having high population of useless people. I do understand how population can also be an advantage but Ndi Igbo will have to go about it gradually. I think Igbo people should go for average size and 6 being the max unless you can afford to train more than 6 kids adequately. Do it based on the size of your wallet. Plan it accordingly. No need to rush.

well said, what is the point making babies when you can take care of them and there is nothing from the govt to even help make sure they will be able to get free education.

sjeezy8:

lol yea sure. . . . . .

Thank u jare. That shit gets my goat. Instead of them focusing on the topic @ hand,they'll rather point out typing errors.

Roflmao!!!

I am enjoying myself on this thread,so far,it hasn't been turned into a tribal war of mouth even though some ppl have been trying hard to make it so.
@Aloy.Emeka & Dede1,
I like Ur perspectives to this issue even though Ur views are divergent.The both of U have made very valid points of note.
I think for political expediency,the senator has some valid points.From history to the present day Nigeria the population of a tribe has always played a major role in the way virtually everything is done in Nigeria,Power,political party,education,census figure and finally allocation.Let's take for instance,the last census in 2005,it was alleged that in some part of the North,the local government chairmen bribed the census officials to bloat the census figures,there were even cases of proxy counting and non-human counting(where cows were also counted),ppl who were long dead had thier names as counts in the register.Meanwhile in the east,it was a case of aparthy,ppl went about thier businesses as usual through out the duration of the census even though they were suppose to be indoor.
My point is that in a country like Nigeria population is more like a political tool for gaining advantage.
However,in my own opinion,I believe in having few quality childrien with the right upbringing and education than having a battalion of useless childrien that will end up as alayes,almajeries and abokis and live in perpetual penury.
And Emeka is very correct,a majority of the 21 century igbo couples don't bear more than 3 or 4 childrien my family is an example,we are just three and that's because am a twin.I ve even noticed the trend amongst my uncles and aunt's in the east,nobody is following grand pa's example,he had 4 wives and 24 childrien,my family compound is divided into 2 very large opposite compounds.Surprisingly,even an averagely educated man in the SE knows the folly of having too many kidz without plans.Igbos are very independently minded,they believe in having kidz they can take care of without resorting to begging anyone cos like Emeka said it's a taboo in igbo land to beg in order to feed his family.

@udezue & rhymz

This is a mixed bag of facts because it contains diametric opposing principles while trying to juxtapose a dastardly flawed analogy. Within a country that operates democracy as system of government, the district or provincial population is a paramount to sustenance of majority control and dispensation of political patronage. In the instance of disintegration of the cesspit called Nigeria, again baring foreign aid, population will definitely determine which breakaway country will emerge not only militarily but economically superior.   

I am happy you said Biafra could have won the civil but it did not win. One of the primary factors that contributed to the defeat of Biafra was population. Nigerian side was numerical superior and used it to her advantage. The only way Biafra could have won the war was through element of surprise which it lost at Ore debacle. Even before the unfolding of Ore saga, Gowon and northern political elites knew that northern region of Nigeria was living on bogus census figures which was ridiculously inflected by the colonial masters.

They (Gowon and northern political elites) immediately went to work on the seemly fear of Igbo domination by fanning up hatred and enticing the greedy southern Nigerians with appointments. Gowon dangled the chances of presidency of Nigeria, corporate heads, permanent secretary positions and the ministerial appointments left by Ndigbo, governorship of state governments and top military appointments to southern Nigerians. These gestures by Gowon and northern elites were seen as a welcomed and never miss candy by melancholic southern Nigerians.

It is very nauseating to read the analogy of smaller European countries subjugating entire Africa politically or otherwise. This issue has nothing to do with population or lack thereof but it hinges on the societal improvement and mindset. For example, if Nigerians were Czechoslovakians, Nigeria would have seen peaceful disintegration before Czechoslovakia does.   

It is unfortunate that few Nigerians tend to build fallacies or flawed elementary social studies into de facto socio-politico-economic factual facts. What is this arrant nonsense of quality children with good education and multitude of useless children?

There are some kinds of succor in any form of education. In my book, rushing through the four walls of institutions such as university does not always equate to being quality children. I have seen successful individuals that never attended any form of school yet gave meaningful employment to so-called quality children with PhDs. Again this last statement begs to ask what is the meaning of education and what is it all about?

Aloy`Emeka:

First and foremost, family population is not dependent on religious faith. Your local pastor will not impregnate your wife for you. If catholic faith encourages large family, why are the white proprietors of the church not following their orders?. Why is Anambra not the most populated state at least in igboland?. Everything should not boil down to argument. If you have proof otherwise that Anambra and Enugu catholic parents have multitude of children against their Abia counterparts who are largely Presbyterian or methodist Imo state, let me know.

Your number crunching is theoretical. Take a trip to the east and do your survey. May be these igbo couples are not fertile, who knows but I do not see any difference in birth rates according to religious faith. You forgot that igbo women are the most educated in Nigeria and you think they will allow a man to keep knocking them up like a dog because they are catholic. I've never heard this catholic encouraging large families and multiple children except from you. Thank you for the information but it does not translate to reality.

gbam. The bolded sums up your personal exposure.

@ the rest: you obviously have limited exposure in every other area you mentioned as well.

The Igbos you know have 2-3 children. Others know of Igbos who have more. Maybe in your state (are you Igbo?) there's small families and low birthrate. It doesnt have to apply to everywhere else in Igboland.

End of story.

Or is it that you're wishing its true for your own private reasons?

If catholic faith encourages large family, why are the white proprietors of the church not following their orders?.

what does this mean? Are you saying white rev fathers should start having families or do you mean why arent white Cathoilcs having large familes?

Like I explained before, whites as a whole tend not to carry religion on their heads like Africans. In the past, white Catholics also had large families and some still do. The Kennedys for instance. The advent of modern birth control and women's emancipation helped shape the modern smaller family size you see today among whites in geenral and white Catholics in particular.