LaClicKLaBenDin:


Typical! Attack my person, thereby avoiding real issues...

Really? I attacked your person? Where sir?

LaClicKLaBenDin:


Judging from the above, it will be expedient to say that, scientific proof isn't why atheists are against God, they're just against God, except of course someone wants to tell me that science at the time of writing the above scripture was already advanced enough to challenge the Bible, just like science is doing today.

If you don't have anything reasonable to say, especially to the bolded, just move on, I'm not here to for spurious talk.

Let me even bother...


Okay sir, following your argument.... What would you say are the new advances in science between the time of the bible and today that have lead to the bible being challenged.

I'm presuming as you have that 'science' as used in the bible passage refers to the discipline we've developed in the last few centuries based on the 'Scientific Method', and not simply to knowledge as humanity as always had to a high degree for millenia now.

lepasharon:
Can god make another god more powerful than himself?

lol ask am o

PastorAIO:



Then why do you do so?

'Existence' is a noun. are you trying to tell us that you are foolish?

Why should you bother trying to talk about something that you say is ineffable?

Where exactly did you learn this 'point of God's supreme nature' that you want to pass to me? In the bible?

Or from Benny Hinn?

Or from your own musings?

Once again I have to condescend to plain stupid.idity and explain gently to you the essence of my communication since you aren't the only one to bring it up.

when I said ordinary 'nounish' issues, I was referring to what you said here:

PastorAIO:


A person can be tall or short, but it is nonsensical to say that a person is height.
You might get away with saying God is Life depending on what you mean by life.

How can eternity be in a person?

I was trying to let you get my point, I still am. You ask if I am foolish, but the fact is that I feel closest to foolish when I try to explain simple matters to people like you, who would go as far as feigning idiocy to look for loopholes in my conversation.

Joshthefirst:


I am simply trying to pass across a point of God's supreme nature to you. God is transcendent. You would be foolish to apply ordinary 'nounish' matters to him.

Come clean and stop being annoying if you don't understand what I'm trying to pass across (I think you do shaa, I choose to have a high opinion of you in spite of contrary evidence).

When I say God does not 'exist'(note parenthesis. The parenthesis implies there's a deeper meaning to what I'm saying, logically.) I mean he did not come into being, like us or the universe. He is the reality of presence. Before such concepts of time or space, or beginning or end he IS. IS! For petes sake. He is the sum total of existence. And everything about reality is contained in him, by inference. This does away with the id.iotic problem of any such infinite regress(take note Lennycool).

By eternity, I mean infinite longevity. Before anything else (including a beginning or end) existed, God IS. ('IS' since there was no relative past present or future of his presence) If he transcends the term 'origin' itself, then he is not 'limited' by infinity. Infinity is 'contained' in him.

I have done my best explaining my words, such that even a child would understand and I probably won't go to this great length anymore.

If God is the sum total of existence and a transcendental infinity, which are the axioms of your understanding of God, how is evil permissible?

In pictorial terms, a glass of clean water like purity can be said to be unclean or impure.

lepasharon:
Can god make another god more powerful than himself?

Can you read and deduce that information by yourself?

LaClicKLaBenDin:



I'm not surprised at the comments of all these anti-God horsdes in here, who come in the guise of atheism.

They're some things I can't say to them; things like what Benny Hinn said above. These are stuff that are way above their limited, myopic, logical and failed human reasoning.

"The things of the spirit is foolishness to a carnal mind".

Yeah. It was all in a genuine effort to urge men to abandon foolishness and pride and embrace truth. To open their eyes and stop closing them in rebellious tantrum.

Kay17:


If God is the sum total of existence and a transcendental infinity, which are the axioms of your understanding of God, how is evil permissible?

In pictorial terms, a glass of clean water like purity can be said to be unclean or impure.

Evil(the nature of and act of evil) is an outcome of free agency.

hahn:


God does not collect offering, it is offering. God does not need a bank, it is a bank. Tithes and offering live in it

Lol

Joshthefirst:
Can you read and deduce that information by yourself?

What do you think?..Can he?

PastorAIO:


A person can either exist or not exist, yes or no?

This is rather odd.

Is it really possible for a person to "not exist"?

When one says that "a person can either exist or not exist" - this suggests that you may have persons that exist and persons that do not exist.

Is this not a very self evidently false thought construction?

For is there any such thing as a "person" that does "not exist"?

It is a flat out contradiction in terms therefore to say that "a person can either exist or not exist" - thus suggesting two alternate possible types of persons: those that exist and those that do not exist!

Evidently therefore, the correct thing to say would be - "Persons exist" - or - "a person exists" - period.

@ OP: Does this build a thread of reasoning somewhere in what you are trying to say regarding the self existent nature of God?

PS - You rightly should not worry too much about the futilist AIO who starts nowhere and goes nowhere: as a matter of fact, he has propounded quite exactly what your OP says in the past, in simply different words.

Joshthefirst:
Evil(the nature of and act of evil) is an outcome of free agency.

But the root of evils are not amongst the axioms of existence in the first place

PastorAIO:


I cannot speak of who or what he was referring to, I can only speak of logic and commonsense.

This is more than impossibility. You might say it is impossible for a man to jump over Empire State Building. Fair enough. Empire state building can be an obstacle in your path, and it has a height so it is possible to pass over it, though not for a man with only 2 legs.

That is different from saying it is impossible for a man to jump over a dream. A dream is not a physical object with a height that can be an obstacle on someone's path. You can't talk about jumping over a dream because a dream is not an object like empire state building that you can physically scale.


It is the same with the Inanity of the OP.

God is a person, yes or no?

A person can either exist or not exist, yes or no?

Existence is not a person, or a thing. So therefore you cannot equate the two and say This person is Existence. These are just the fundamentals of Logic, commonsense, and Language systems.

You can't run to saying the folly of God is greater than the wisdom of men. this whole matter is beyond Wisdom and Folly. This represents the utter disintegration and ultimate demise of any intelligence, human or divine. There are no distinctions here between nouns and verbs, between adjectives and adverbs etc etc.

e.g Does these make sense: 1. Hot is carefully. 2. The water is not hot, the water is heat itself. The car does not run fast, it is fastness itself.


These are nonsensical statement no matter how you look at them, whether grammatically, logically, any how.

However the OP claims that he experienced the statements as powerful and satisfying. I believe him. Totally.

So what becomes of interest to me is how such pitiful nonsense can have such a powerful and satisfying effect.

This would require a study of the human brain and how it works. I feel that I know what happened, but it's a big topic on human psychology etc.

Wow!! U just earned my respect

KingEbukasBlog:


Sharap abeeg .

That PastorAIO guy only knows how to criticize religious beliefs , he claims to be pantheist and failed to honour the request to scrutinize his pantheistic beliefs . What is he afraid of ? Criticism ? He believes divinity permeates the universe and can't defend his beliefs I lost any iota of respect I had for him . Nonsense .

See this one... U deserve a medal for being the only guy who boldly talks nonsense. Unfortunately people like winner01 are following ur lead.

DeepSight:


This is rather odd.

Is it really possible for a person to "not exist"?

When one says that "a person can either exist or not exist" - this suggests that you may have persons that exist and persons that do not exist.

Is this not a very self evidently false thought construction?

For is there any such thing as a "person" that does "not exist"?

It is a flat out contradiction in terms therefore to say that "a person can either exist or not exist" - thus suggesting two alternate possible types of persons: those that exist and those that do not exist!

Evidently therefore, the correct thing to say would be - "Persons exist" - or - "a person exists" - period.

@ OP: Does this build a thread of reasoning somewhere in what you are trying to say regarding the self existent nature of God?

PS - You rightly should not worry too much about the futilist AIO who starts nowhere and goes nowhere: as a matter of fact, he has propounded quite exactly what your OP says in the past, in simply different words.

Genie!

PastorAIO:
Could you please further explain what those statements mean?

How can a person be Existence? Existence is a state, or a value that you give to a thing. A person can exist or not exist.

A person can be tall or short, but it is nonsensical to say that a person is height.

You might get away with saying God is Life depending on what you mean by life.

But the most nonsensical of all is to say that Eternity lives in Him.

What does Eternity mean to you? How can eternity be in a person?

God is not a person.
Can you people ever wrap your heads around God being the Creator of all

frank317:


See this one... U deserve a medal for being the only guy who boldly talks nonsense. Unfortunately people like winner01 are following ur lead.

frank317 how far now. Its been long we had those heated exchanges.

hahn:


God does not collect offering, it is offering. God does not need a bank, it is a bank. Tithes and offering live in it

PastorAIO's reply isn't brutal. It is 'BRUTALITY' itself.
I drop cap for him.
By far the best reply so far in all christain threads I bothered to read through yesterday.

DeepSight:


This is rather odd.

Is it really possible for a person to "not exist"?

When one says that "a person can either exist or not exist" - this suggests that you may have persons that exist and persons that do not exist.

Is this not a very self evidently false thought construction?

For is there any such thing as a "person" that does "not exist"?

It is a flat out contradiction in terms therefore to say that "a person can either exist or not exist" - thus suggesting two alternate possible types of persons: those that exist and those that do not exist!

Evidently therefore, the correct thing to say would be - "Persons exist" - or - "a person exists" - period.

@ OP: Does this build a thread of reasoning somewhere in what you are trying to say regarding the self existent nature of God?

PS - You rightly should not worry too much about the futilist AIO who starts nowhere and goes nowhere: as a matter of fact, he has propounded quite exactly what your OP says in the past, in simply different words.

Does a ghost worker exist? Does a dead person exist?

I wonder why you keep writing big word salads that are nonsensical. So all your epistle is just to argue rubbish that a person "can not be in non-existence"?


Wow.

winner01:
God is not a person.
Can you people ever wrap your heads around God being the Creator of all

Not one, not Two...... , [size=14pt]but in fact Three persons[/size].


Thank you for correcting me.

Joshthefirst:
Pastor Benny Hinn said something I've been stating about the fundamental nature of God and his life. He said it in the power of the Spirit last night at a ministration in Lagos.

GOD does not exist, HE IS EXISTENCE. God does not live, HE IS LIFE. God does not live in eternity, ETERNITY LIVES IN HIM!

The first and last phrases, especially the last, are quite powerful and satisfying to me and everyone who ponders. You see the Spirit is one and always says the same thing.


God is the origin, yet he became man because of his love for us. The FACT OF HIS INCARNATION IS NOT TO BE A SOURCE OF DOUBT, IT IS TO BE A SOURCE OF THE INSPIRATION OF HIS LOVE FOR YOU AND ME.

The power of his life flows in believers in this world. In spite of lies, we are the bearers of truth. We are the graced ones, and we will continue to shake the world even more with his love and power.

Now is not a time to be idiot.ic as many are, reprobate, lounging in deadly darkness and lust and filthiness of mind and mouth. Now is not the time for foolishness in old men and young. It is not the time for pride to deceive. Now is not a time for doubts. The truth is around you. It's words are in your mouth. Seek it and you will find it. Confess it.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. That whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life. The son did not come to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

If you believe in your heart the Lord Jesus, and confess with your mouth that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

For there is no other name given among men with which they will be saved, save the name of Jesus.

Benny is confused and needs to go over Exodus 3:14 carefully
Hayah in Exodus 3:14, means existed, come to pass, become, be

winner01:
God is not a person.
Can you people ever wrap your heads around God being the Creator of all

PastorAIO:
Not one, not Two...... , [size=14pt]but in fact Three persons[/size].
Thank you for correcting me.

Not one, not Two... in fact not Three persons, [size=14pt]but in fact is, X or infinite persons[/size].
Thank later for correcting you.

God wasnt revealed to the patriarchs as a Father, unlike believers who know God as a Father

With passage of time, back to back from Eden to whenever, God reveals the different persons or personas in Him
God is, I AM THAT I AM, I AM WHO I AM, I AM WHO I SHALL BE, I SHALL BE WHO I SHALL BE etcetera

JackBizzle:




Does a ghost worker exist?

The simple answer is no - because a Ghost worker was never a person at all.

Does a dead person exist?

The simple answer is yes: and this is to be contrasted with a ghost worker who never lived or died at all and so simply never existed. A dead person does exist exactly because it is a person and not a sack of meat.

I wonder why you keep writing big word salads that are nonsensical. So all your epistle is just to argue rubbish that a person "can not be in non-existence"?


Wow.

Don't worry, in writing what I wrote, I knew very well that it would fly over the heads of the likes of yourself and AIO. In your case because of a certain density of wit, but in his case simply on account with an obsession with chasing his tail.

To help you: what I wrote is really directed at the divine quality of self-existence: which is what the OP is really hinting at, even if clumsily so.

DeepSight:


The simple answer is no - because a Ghost worker was never a person at all.



The simple answer is yes: and this is to be contrasted with a ghost worker who never lived or died at all and so simply never existed. A dead person does exist exactly because it is a person and not a sack of meat.



Don't worry, in writing what I wrote, I knew very well that it would fly over the heads of the likes of yourself and AIO. In your case because of a certain density of wit, but in his case simply on account with an obsession with chasing his tail.

To help you: what I wrote is really directed at the divine quality of self-existence: which is what the OP is really hinting at, even if clumsily so.

Mr. word salad again with his folly- so now, I do not understand your argument because I pointed out what was wrong with it?



Let's get some basic facts down.

1) A ghost worker is a person on paper. The point here is that such a person does not exist in reality or in the physical sense- bodily.

2) A dead person is someone who no longer exists consciously. And if dead long enough, a dead person will have no physical body or existence (body rots away).



So when you say that a person can not "not exist", you are wrong on so many levels.

No word salads or insults towards my intelligence by you will change this fact.

JackBizzle:



Mr. word salad again with his folly- so now, I do not understand your argument because I pointed out what was wrong with it?



Let's get some basic facts down.

1) A ghost worker is a person on paper. The point here is that such a person does not exist in reality or in the physical sense- bodily.

2) A dead person is someone who no longer exists consciously. And if dead long enough, a dead person will have no physical body or existence (body rots away).



So when you say that a person can not "not exist", you are wrong on so many levels.

No word salads or insults towards my intelligence by you will change this fact.

For a second, I was willing to engage, but reading the above, that would just amount to insulting myself.
I will only place the worlds in bold for your introspection - if you are capable of same.

Plenty grammar.

DeepSight:


For a second, I was willing to engage, but reading the above, that would just amount to insulting myself.
I will only place the worlds in bold for your introspection - if you are capable of same.

As usual, Deepsight will play his only card that works on the gullible which are aplenty on nairaland- to claim that the opposition has written something below his intelligence and then, give some supposedly subliminal but insightful advice to meditate on.


You are an empty barrel that makes loud noise. In this case your loud noise is just big grammar that means nothing. Lord of the word salad.




Apparently, your conclusion from all this is that dead people exist. Abacha exists. Even Plato and Abraham Lincoln still exist.



What an arrogant, egotistical cocksure blowhard!

JackBizzle:



As usual, Deepsight will play his only card that works on the gullible which are aplenty on nairaland- to claim that the opposition has written something below his intelligence and then, give some supposedly subliminal but insightful advice to meditate on.


You are an empty barrel that makes loud noise. In this case your loud noise is just big grammar that means nothing. Lord of the word salad.




Apparently, your conclusion from all this is that dead people exist. Abacha exists. Even Plato and Abraham Lincoln still exist.



What an arrogant, egotistical cocksure blowhard!

Egbon, you dey vex ni!

Born2Freak:


Egbon, you dey vex ni!

Babe, the guy is annoying. He always acts like he is right and he knows it all, whereas, he just packages bullshite like manure seller.

Imagine him arguing that there can't be people that don't exist? Really?? Do dead people exist in his village? mtcheww.

JackBizzle:



Babe, the guy is annoying. He always acts like he is right and he knows it all, whereas, he just packages bullshite like manure seller.

You are funny:

Imagine him arguing that there can't be people that don't exist? Really??

How terribly odd. "People" refers to something that exists. To persons. It is beyond me how you can sleep well arguing that there can be people who do not exist.

And then to use ghost workers as an example of "people that do not exist" - especially in the context of the preceding contentions.

"Ghost-workers" are not people in any sense.

Do dead people exist in his village? mtcheww.

Life after the transition of a person from his physical body is a self evident fact to anyone conscious enough to even be aware of himself and his daily existence within this body.

However the question of life after death still is not even necessary here as in either event we are speaking of a person who existed on this material plane: even for the doubters who say that life ends at death: one may revert to the effect that even the physical remains continue in the material cycle of life - that would rest the more subtle meanings of the OP which elude you.

I believe the truth is that your words of anger stem from your recognition of how ludicrously out of place your "ghost workers" example was, when you first attempted to give examples of the existence of persons that could "not exist."

I am not responsible for your incomplete reasoning processes or the paucity of thought within your mind.

DeepSight:


You are funny:



How terribly odd. "People" refers to something that exists. To persons. It is beyond me how you can sleep well arguing that there can be people who do not exist.

And then to use ghost workers as an example of "people that do not exist" - especially in the context of the preceding contentions.

"Ghost-workers" are not people in any sense.



Life after the transition of a person from his physical body is a self evident fact to anyone conscious enough to even be aware of himself and his daily existence within this body.

However the question of life after death still is not even necessary here as in either event we are speaking of a person who existed on this material plane: even for the doubters who say that life ends at death: one may revert to the effect that even the physical remains continue in the material cycle of life - that would rest the more subtle meanings of the OP which elude you.

I believe the truth is that your words of anger stem from your recognition of how ludicrously out of place your "ghost workers" example was, when you first attempted to give examples of the existence of persons that could "not exist."

I am not responsible for your incomplete reasoning processes or the paucity of thought within your mind.

Please, fellow atheists, pantheists, theists and agnostics- please answer these questions;

Do dead people exist?
Do ghost workers exist?


I'm tired of Deepsight insulting my intelligence with his word salad.


cc johnydon22, plaetton, hahn, lepasharon, kingebukasblog, weah96 et al.....

lepasharon:


What do you think?..Can he?

God permeates all in reality. Everything about infinite reality beyond universe conception is 'contained' in him, so your question is not feasible in the first place.