DeepSight:


An atheist such as Plaetton (and many other atheists) would readily then agree that God exists - as a mental construct of the human mind.

The mere existence of any abstraction as a thought is not what is being discussed here.

But that is exactly what God is- a mental construct of the human mind.
If God is more than that, then no evidence has been advanced so far as proof.

You cannot , in one breath say that God is beyond the reaches of scientific investigation, and then in another breath, say that God is not a mental construct.

JackBizzle:



So illogical that I manage to convince a lot of your fellow christian Nairalanders?

You managed to convinced them that what?

Joshthefirst:
No it is not. Is there a greatness bigger than everything in reality?

Perhaps God as the container of everything is just a Point. However where will we say that this point is located?

I am speaking topologically.

Joshthefirst:
Pastor Benny Hinn said something I've been stating about the fundamental nature of God and his life. He said it in the power of the Spirit last night at a ministration in Lagos.

GOD does not exist, HE IS EXISTENCE. God does not live, HE IS LIFE. God does not live in eternity, ETERNITY LIVES IN HIM!

The first and last phrases, especially the last, are quite powerful and satisfying to me and everyone who ponders. You see the Spirit is one and always says the same thing.


God is the origin, yet he became man because of his love for us. The FACT OF HIS INCARNATION IS NOT TO BE A SOURCE OF DOUBT, IT IS TO BE A SOURCE OF THE INSPIRATION OF HIS LOVE FOR YOU AND ME.

The power of his life flows in believers in this world. In spite of lies, we are the bearers of truth. We are the graced ones, and we will continue to shake the world even more with his love and power.

Now is not a time to be idiot.ic as many are, reprobate, lounging in deadly darkness and lust and filthiness of mind and mouth. Now is not the time for foolishness in old men and young. It is not the time for pride to deceive. Now is not a time for doubts. The truth is around you. It's words are in your mouth. Seek it and you will find it. Confess it.

For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. That whosoever believes in him will not perish, but have everlasting life. The son did not come to condemn the world, but that the world might be saved through him.

If you believe in your heart the Lord Jesus, and confess with your mouth that God raised him from the dead, you shall be saved.

For there is no other name given among men with which they will be saved, save the name of Jesus.

But of course.
Daahhhh!!

Snake oil salesmen like sly fox Benny Him and other evangelical fraudsters have the wide, no, unlimited latitude to say just about anything , no matter how illogical, no matter how nonsensical, to the eager consumers of their craft.

It doesn't ever have to make sense, and it seldom ever does.

plaetton:


But of course.
Daahhhh!!

Snake oil salesmen like sly fox Benny Him and other evangelical fraudsters have the wide, no, unlimited latitude to say just about anything , no matter how illogical, no matter how nonsensical, to the eager consumers of their craft.

It doesn't ever have to make sense, and it seldom ever does.

The less sense it makes the better. In order to bypass any critical faculties and directly access those faculties that will give the 'powerful and satisfying' feelings that he is talking about.

DeepSight:


An atheist such as Plaetton (and many other atheists) would readily then agree that God exists - as a mental construct of the human mind.

The mere existence of any abstraction as a thought is not what is being discussed here.

In a way it is part of what is being discussed. Existence in the absolute sense comprises of physical, metaphysical and/or ideological parts. As it stands, all things fall into the categories of being in existence or not in existence including the future and the unknown. Plainly put, in my opinion, God exists (regardless of what side of the religious divide you are on). Existence is a property. Nothing can be existence. Even If you say all existence is contained within God, then you are are using "all existence" as a noun to make it correct, not a verb which would be illogical. Like someone gave an example above, I'll give a different one. Usain Bolt may be the fastest man on earth but you can't say Bolt is speed because speed is intangible. Saying God is existence makes God intangible, meaning he doesn't have any actual attributes.

RosaConsidine:


In a way it is part of what is being discussed. Existence in the absolute sense comprises of physical, metaphysical and/or ideological parts. As it stands, all things fall into the categories of being in existence or not in existence including the future and the unknown. Plainly put, in my opinion, God exists (regardless of what side of the religious divide you are on). Existence is a property. Nothing can be existence. Even If you say all existence is contained within God, then you are are using "all existence" as a noun to make it correct, not a verb which would be illogical. Like someone gave an example above, I'll give a different one. Usain Bolt may be the fastest man on earth but you can't say Bolt is speed because speed is intangible. Saying God is existence makes God intangible, meaning he doesn't have any actual attributes.

The summary of which is that God is an idea, that has been conceptualized into religious knowledge.

Just a legendary story badly constructed.

PastorAIO:


That one na revised standard version.

My own King John's Revised version says: ..... 'whosoever believeth in the salad and eateth of it shall have everlasting flatulence'.

My own is from the original parchments believed to have been written by the hand of the apostle himself so favour it.

Na lie.!

My own was from the holy tablet sent from the mountains

analice107:

You managed to convinced them that what?

That Jesus is not the only way.

PastorAIO:


The less sense it makes the better. In order to bypass any critical faculties and directly access those faculties that will give the 'powerful and satisfying' feelings that he is talking about.

Bingo!

DeepSight:




Lol.

Good jokes, but your good humour scratches nothing off the substance at play.
I have seen it before, the "resort to comedy" approach to refuting substance.

No dice gents.

I'm happy you found our jokes humorous

PastorAIO:


Perhaps God as the container of everything is just a Point. However where will we say that this point is located?

I am speaking topologically.

Perhaps you're talking nonsense and postulating.

Have I ever sounded like I was theorizing in what I have said so far? No.

PastorAIO:


The less sense it makes the better. In order to bypass any critical faculties and directly access those faculties that will give the 'powerful and satisfying' feelings that he is talking about.

I pointed out that what he said was powerful and satisfying because I had pondered and come to realize those things myself, only to be inspired even more when someone with more influence said same.

I'm now quite sure you have some comprehension problems. You probably never read the OP completely. Very funny when the group of you concur.

Joshthefirst:
Perhaps you're talking nonsense and postulating.

Have I ever sounded like I was theorizing in what I have said so far? No.

Joshthefirst:
I pointed out that what he said was powerful and satisfying because I had pondered and come to realize those things myself, only to be inspired even more when someone with more influence said same.

Josh,

Pls don't tell me that you respect and follow that greesy, sleezy slimeball called Benny Hinn.

Joshthefirst:
Perhaps you're talking nonsense and postulating.

Have I ever sounded like I was theorizing in what I have said so far? No.

Perhaps in your world I'm talking nonsense and postulating but Mathematically speaking (Topology in fact) a Point does contain the entire universe.


I could not say whether or not you were theorizing or whatever in what you've said so far. But I do not imagine that you believe yourself to have a personal tete a tete relationship with 'Existence' itself. I mean a relationship that only members of your cult have and no one else.

Joshthefirst:
I pointed out that what he said was powerful and satisfying because I had pondered and come to realize those things myself, only to be inspired even more when someone with more influence said same.

I'm now quite sure you have some comprehension problems. You probably never read the OP completely. Very funny the group of you concur.

At least we can agree that you've had a very deeply powerful and satisfying experience. Yes?

Where we will agree to disagree is about what has brought about the experience.

Wait....is joshthefirst using jazz?

This thread should have died on arrival!

PastorAIO killed it but it still lives on!




God is existence.......lol.......How can something be existence?

PastorAIO:


Perhaps in your world I'm talking nonsense and postulating but Mathematically speaking (Topology in fact) a Point does contain the entire universe.


I could not say whether or not you were theorizing or whatever in what you've said so far. But I do not imagine that you believe yourself to have a personal tete a tete relationship with 'Existence' itself. I mean a relationship that only members of your cult have and no one else.

Mathematically speaking the universe was once a point. No where does maths state a point contains the entire universe. Dont start spouting falsehood in your directionlessness sir.

With logical thought, outside of our physical reality and it's dimensions is a transcendent infinity; God's presence in pervasive limitlessness.

Asking if God can create a greater consciousness is an illogical question.

This thread is very entertaining

cloudgoddess:
This thread is very entertaining

Joshthefirst:
Mathematically speaking the universe was once a point. No where does maths state a point contains the entire universe. Dont start spouting falsehood in your directionlessness sir.

In mathematics, topology (from the Greek τόπος, place, and λόγος, study) is concerned with the properties of space that are preserved under continuous deformations, such as stretching and bending, but not tearing or gluing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-eJW0gEm5w

JackBizzle:

That Jesus is not the only way.

Which other way is there?

Joshthefirst:

With logical thought, outside of our physical reality and it's dimensions is a transcendent infinity; God's presence in pervasive limitlessness.

Asking if God can create a greater consciousness is an illogical question.

Oh, so we do care about logic in this matter after all. I thought it was irrelevant to Faith-based cultists.

PastorAIO:


In mathematics, topology (from the Greek τόπος, place, and λόγος, study) is concerned with the properties of space that are preserved under continuous deformations, such as stretching and bending, but not tearing or gluing.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Topology



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C-eJW0gEm5w

Informative video. Well done, sir.

analice107:

Which other way is there?

The way of the master!



.....the kung fu master!

JackBizzle:



Informative video. Well done, sir.

Thank you sir.


Topology is the study of spatial relations.

a pebble that is situated inside of a ball can never be situated outside of the ball without tearing the skin of the ball. There is no way that you can twist or wangle the ball so that the pebble will end up situated outside the ball. Topologically speaking the pebble's spatial relationship to the ball is to be contained within the ball.


In other words there is no way that the pebble can pass from inside the ball to outside the ball without tearing the skin of the ball.

DeepSight:


This is rather odd.

Is it really possible for a person to "not exist"?

When one says that "a person can either exist or not exist" - this suggests that you may have persons that exist and persons that do not exist.

Is this not a very self evidently false thought construction?

For is there any such thing as a "person" that does "not exist"?

It is a flat out contradiction in terms therefore to say that "a person can either exist or not exist" - thus suggesting two alternate possible types of persons: those that exist and those that do not exist!

Evidently therefore, the correct thing to say would be - "Persons exist" - or - "a person exists" - period.

@ OP: Does this build a thread of reasoning somewhere in what you are trying to say regarding the self existent nature of God?

PS - You rightly should not worry too much about the futilist AIO who starts nowhere and goes nowhere: as a matter of fact, he has propounded quite exactly what your OP says in the past, in simply different words.

I doubt if amongst the properties of personhood is existence. Personhood is one idea while existence is another. They are not mutually exclusive

Kay17:



I doubt if amongst the properties of personhood is existence. Personhood is one idea while existence is another. They are not mutually exclusive

Bingo!! I was shocked that the guy seemed to not know the meaning of the word. But apparently he doesn't.

One definition of Person would be a set of observable characteristics that mark an entity as distinct.

A Fictional person does NOT exist.

Christianity goes so far as to attribute to one being, namely God, 3 distinct persons.

The word Person comes from the latin word Persona which is the original term for a Mask. When an actor puts on a Persona (mask) he then plays the part of that person in the play. The very same actor can then put on a different Persona (mask) for a different scene and then play the part of the other Person.

The person is nothing other than the set of characteristics that define a being (within a certain context).

Someone who believes in reincarnation can see the soul as transmigrating from one person to another person.

person (n.) Look up person at Dictionary.com
early 13c., from Old French persone "human being, anyone, person" (12c., Modern French personne) and directly from Latin persona "human being, person, personage; a part in a drama, assumed character," originally "mask, false face," such as those of wood or clay worn by the actors in later Roman theater. OED offers the general 19c. explanation of persona as "related to" Latin personare "to sound through" (i.e. the mask as something spoken through and perhaps amplifying the voice

http://www.etymonline.com/index.php?term=person

winner01:
God is not a person.
Can you people ever wrap your heads around God being the Creator of all

Not one, not Two...... , [size=14pt]but in fact Three persons[/size].


Thank you for correcting me.

Kay17:



I doubt if amongst the properties of personhood is existence. Personhood is one idea while existence is another. They are not mutually exclusive

I am at a loss as to how this comment is of any relevance to my comments above given that a person (or personhood) can only be conceived of within existence or as something existent.

Indeed, there is nothing that can be conceived of without existence or as not being existent.

For this reason, your comment - and AIO's revert above - is meaningless.

Period.