dakmanzero:

Hey DD, nice to see you here!

However it seems this touchy subject may have struck a few nerves! Your posts are a small departure from your usual calm and measured reasoning.

Appreciated, but its hard to keep a straight face when you come across people who are determined to sacrifice the truth on the altar of anti-semitism.

dakmanzero:

You made a good point clarifying the whole 'expulsion from Israel' thing, but quoting verses from hate texts created by a hate group and silently implying that the view therein is one shared by a larger group isn't in the best interests of rational discourse, don't you think?

Quoting Hitler's cohorts only makes things worse. How much better to demonize your opponent than to represent him as an all of the Ultimate Lord Of All Evil Forever And Ever As Decreed By The Internet Amen (Hitler)

- It might interest you to note that those comments i posted were made by the grand-mufti of Jerusalem (the leader of the arabs living in palestine before it became a jewish state). They were not empty statements simply made by hate groups.

- When Isreal was attacked by arab nations in 1948, arabs were told to leave Isreal by the same arab neighbours to return after the liberation of Isreal which unfortunately did not happen. It is those same people that our arab brothers now turn around to accuse the Jews of "expelling". It is easy to find out facts when we genuinely search for them rather than pinging all our "facts" on propaganda.

dakmanzero:

Also, the 75-80% of palestine=Jordan thing is really interesting to me! I was under the Impression that palestinians occupied the land that is now Israel. Of course I don't claim to be an authority on that subject. Can you kindly provide sources as a frame of reference? Googling anything palestine or israel just vomits a load of bigotry and hate-mongering.

Please read up on the Balfour declaration by the British that divided the British controlled palestine between 1917 and 1922 when the Ottoman empire gave up control to the Brits after world war I.
Land east of Jordan, making up 75-80% of palestine, was given to King Abdullah as the hashemite kingdom of transjordan in 1922. The land west of jordan was what became the Jewish nation in 1948.

It might also be interesting to note that the present areas called the westbank (judea and samaria) and gaza belonged to Jordan and NOT Isreal as at 1964.
Here is an excerpt from the Palestinian National Charter in 1964:
Article 16: , the people of Palestine, desiring to befriend all nations
which love freedom, justice, and peace, look forward to their support in
restoring the legitimate situation to Palestine, , and [in] enabling its
people to exercise national sovereignty and freedom.

Article 24: This Organization does not exercise any territorial sovereignty
over the West Bank in the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan, [or] on the Gaza Strip

As at 1964, the PLO clearly asserted that they did NOT have territorial rights to the westbank and Gaza, which were under Jordanian control. Why did the Isreali-Palestinian conflict suddenly become a fight for control of the same territories after they reverted to Jewish control in 1967?

dakmanzero:

However it seems this touchy subject may have struck a few nerves! Your posts are a small departure from your usual calm and measured reasoning.

You made a good point clarifying the whole 'expulsion from Israel' thing, but quoting verses from hate texts created by a hate group and  silently implying that the view therein is one shared by a larger group isn't in the best interests of rational discourse, don't you think?

Hamas is not just anyother hate group a la KKK,BNP,or whatever pathetic collection hate groups you know of.Hamas won the Palestinian elections.To the extent that a group obtains the electoral mandate of a people,we are entitled to view such group's views as fairly representative of the people who elected it.

If the KKK were to win Congressional elections in the US,one is entitled to deduce from that the American people are racist.

The views of Hamas are well known and despite that,the Palestinian people elected them.This happened to be the first free and fair elections in the territories.It is the most compelling evidence of the state of the Palestinian mind

davidylan:

"The 15th May, 1948, arrived , On that day the mufti of Jerusalem appealed to the Arabs of Palestine to leave the country, because the Arab armies were about to enter and fight in their stead."
– The Cairo daily Akhbar el Yom, Oct. 12, 1963.

Be careful when next you use the words "in fact" when you you have no knowledge of the real facts.

Listen big Oga, I do not need your quotes to teach me about MY history and that of my forefathers. I'm Palestinian. My living grandmother was terrified into fleeing at May 27th 11:45AM 1948, following intense Jewish Air Force bombardment of Deyr Al-Qassi in ARAB Galilee. Our entire village of 9000 people were forced to flee to Lebanon.

According to ALL accounts from the living people who witnessed this horrible ethnic cleansing, from Deir El-Qassi and the 800 other Arab towns/villages ethnically cleansed in 1948, the Jewish terrorist gangs of Irgun, Hagana, et. al used all means possible to force the Arabs out of Palestine in order to establish a Jewish nation on Arab soil.

How many of you know that the first Terror act in british Palestine was committed by Irgun (jewish terror organization), that is the bombing of the King David Hotel? In that attack, over 60 high-ranking people of the Palestine Govt. perished, including Arab cabinet members.

The influx of illegal European Jewish immigrants post World War 2 made matters worse for us, as it was used to populate vacuums created following the exodus of many Arab communities who were either forced to flee following massacres or had to escape famine or acute water shortage.

I've no problem telling you more, If you cared to know. I get sick to my stomach when reading such horrendous statements as "All 700,000 Palestinian refugees were "told" to leave to "make way for anhilation of Jews", etc.

Either be balanced in your reading of history or be open minded to people who actually lived the circumstances surrounding 1948, ON BOTH sides.

I-man:

Hamas is not just anyother hate group a la KKK,BNP,or whatever pathetic collection hate groups you know of.Hamas won the Palestinian elections.To the extent that a group obtains the electoral mandate of a people,we are entitled to view such group's views as fairly representative of the people who elected it.

If the KKK were to win Congressional elections in the US,one is entitled to deduce from that the American people are racist.

The views of Hamas are well known and despite that,the Palestinian people elected them.This happened to be the first free and fair elections in the territories.It is the most compelling evidence of the state of the Palestinian mind
 

Rubbish.  The vast majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas because they were frustrated by the sickening corruption of Fatah political party, which monopolised negotiations with Israel.

Over $15 billion dollars were squandered by Fatah uneducated thugs.

You see, the Palestinian people do not tolerate corruption as a way of life. It so happened that they have elected Hamas as a way to protest:

1- Unending corruption of Fatah and the disappearance of huge aid monies sent to the PNA by donor nations.
2- The lack of progress on the political front, due to Israel's stubborn refusal to end the occupation of Palestinian land in Gaza, West Bank, and East Jerusalem.
3- Continuing failure of Fatah to build schools and provides services, where Hamas' civil wing provided these, and in abundance!
Many people dont realize that Hamas is first and foremost a charity and humaniterian organization.

Your cheap attack on the mindset of the very victims of colonialism and Jewish white supremacists is nothing but hot air.
Your comments are worthless.

Hey, Z, cool down.

DD is usually a rather intelligent and/or balanced guy.

DD, please respond in a calm and measured tone. You do realise that firsthand accounts and published history are many times divergent, and there is an opportunity here for us all to learn.

Obviously you have read a lot about the history of these events, and would have something to contribute, but if the two of you just go after each others' throats no-one will learn everything. Remember many people listen in on a public discussion.

@zexyworm
You can't have a reasoned debate with people who have a pathological hatred for non Jews.

zexyworm:

Rubbish.  The vast majority of Palestinians voted for Hamas because they were frustrated by the sickening corruption of Fatah political party, which monopolised negotiations with Israel.

Over $15 billion dollars were squandered by Fatah uneducated thugs.

This is horse hockey.There are a number of other parties in Palestine-DFLP,PDU,PNI,e.t.c-none of which share Hamas' genocidal philosophy.The people of Palestine could easily have voted for them but instead they chose Hamas.I presume they are now happy with their choice.Look how wonderful Hamas' reign in power has been for Gaza.

@Zexyworm

It is quite disingenious of you to imply that atrocities where a one way street.Jews were massacred just like Arabs during the war of independence.At the time there were only 600,000 Jews in the territory.600,000 Jews,I repeat for emphasis.

The point Davidylan made about some of the Palestinians leaving voluntarily is well known.Some indeed left voluntarily being confident they will return after the Jews have been driven into the Sea as they were told.I actually first learnt about this from a Palestinian.

Had the Isrealis been some African group like the people of Darfur,they wouldn't have survived the Arab onslaught.I have always maintained that all these would have been avoided if the Arabs had acepted initially the UN's recognition of the State of Isreal.The Arabs launched a war they were confident they will win and lost it.Had they not chosen violence over dialogue at the time,a lot of misery would have been avoided.They probably thought the Jews were like the Kurds and the Maghreb who they have intimidated sucesfully

zexyworm:

According to ALL accounts from the living people who witnessed this horrible ethnic cleansing, from Deir El-Qassi and the 800 other Arab towns/villages ethnically cleansed in 1948, the Jewish terrorist gangs of Irgun, Hagana, et. al used all means possible to force the Arabs out of Palestine in order to establish a Jewish nation on Arab soil.

The Isreal-Hezbollah conflict has opened our eyes to the extent the arab world will go to subvert the truth and manipulate history in their propaganda war against Isreal. There is no point relying on arab "first hand accounts", we now know al-taqiyya all too well.

While you drool on about Jewish "horrible ethnic cleansing", you forget that it was the entire arab world that surrounded Isreal in 1948 and 1967 with the sole intention of wiping out the jewish race. Perhaps your definition of ethnic cleansing is a different one. As I-man rightly posited, the voluntary exodus of arabs from isreal is well established. Many of us refuse to read history upside down.

Now back to the issue of "establishing a jewish nation on arab soil", where is the evidence that CLEARLY proves that the present land of Isreal is arab soil? Lest we forget, the name "palaestine" that many of you now bandy around is NOT arab in origin but is actually greco-roman! the name was given to the land AFTER Titus roman army destroyed Jerusalem in AD 70 in order to wipe out all traces of Jewish influence.
Lest we also forget, Jordan is ALSO not an arab name! It was the name given to the 75% of british controlled palestinian land given to king abdullah as the arab portion of the land. That name came from the river jordan that divides both Isreal and Jordan today. You and I know quite well that river Jordan has NO islamic or Arab influence but is well established in both the bible and secular history as an important part of jewish heritage!

Merely referencing worthless UN resolutions will not help the palestinian cause.

Hmmm.

Now I see why that war never ends.

God save us all.

http://www.pajamasmedia.com/2007/06/mahmoud_wants_war.php
By Meir Javedanfar:

Increasingly, the angry speeches of Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reveal a desperate president in need of a conflict. Just a few days ago, he crossed a key rhetorical red line by expressing open hostility towards both Judaism and Christianity.


Ahmadinejad charged that “ideologies deviating from God’s teachings are being spread with dollars in the name of Judaism and Christianity around the world. Those who are doing this are saying they want to save humanity, whereas the only way to save humanity is Islam”.

He went on to say that “Islam completes other religions” and that therefore “other religions are not accepted by God”.

I-man

Increasingly, the angry speeches of Iran’s President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad reveal a desperate president in need of a conflict. Just a few days ago, he crossed a key rhetorical red line by expressing open hostility towards both Judaism and Christianity.

The key word here is ]rhetoric, on the other hand Israelis don't believe in mere rhetorics, they just bomb you.
Would you prefer a neighbour who says I could kill you or the one who really have a defined goal of wiping you out with his bigger gun?

Tornadoz:

I-manThe key word here is ]rhetoric, on the other hand Israelis don't believe in mere rhetorics, they just bomb you.

How many times has Isreal bombed Iran?Isreal does not share a common boundary with Iran nor does it make claims to Iranian teritory.To the extent that there is rising tensions in Iranian/Isreal relations,this has been solely due to Iran's policy.

Would you  prefer a  neighbour who says I could kill you or the one who really have a defined goal of wiping you out with his bigger gun?

The only reason Israel is pondering military action against Iran is due to Iran's threats against Israel.The chronology of events here are important.Iran first made threats against Isreal,existential threats which become more threatening as Iran's programs develop.Isreal's threat,in response, has never been to wipe Iran off the map but to strike at Iran's capability to attack Israel.

There is clear distinction between a threat to wipe a nation off the face of the earth(as Iran made) and one to attack another nations nuclear facilities(as Israel has made)

Tornadoz:

I-manThe key word here is rhetoric, on the other hand Israelis don't believe in mere rhetorics, they just bomb you.
Would you prefer a neighbour who says I could kill you or the one who really have a defined goal of wiping you out with his bigger gun?

This argument is terribly flawed and is symptomatic of those who choose to stand reason on its head in their desperate drowning-man-clutching-at-straws attempt to lay the entire blame for the middle east crisis at the doorstep of Isreal.

when and which countries has Isreal ever bombed? the only 2 countries i can recall are Egypt (during the 6-day war) in their attempt to survive Nasser's plan to destroy them and Iraq (a successful strike at Iraq's nuclear facilities).
During the Gulf war, Saddam ignored the attacking American army to launch scud missiles unprovoked at Isreal and yet Isreal never responded!

Your neighbor analogy falls flat on its face. Would you go about as if nothing is happening if your neighbour openly threatens to kill you and your family with his new dane gun? Is it Isreal or Iran that has a defined goal of driving the other into the sea and has actually verbalised that threat on more than 1 occassion?

It is not enough to pop in here and leave a post, think critically before you post. Anyone reading your post would be left wondering if you bothered to engage your thinking faculties before posting at all.

davidylan:


when and which countries has Isreal ever bombed? the only 2 countries i can recall are Egypt (during the 6-day war) in their attempt to survive Nasser's plan to destroy them and Iraq (a successful strike at Iraq's nuclear facilities).
During the Gulf war, Saddam ignored the attacking American army to launch scud missiles unprovoked at Isreal and yet Isreal never responded!

Well, it seems that the bombing of Lebanon last year was a minor incident not worthy of being mentioned even when over 1000 civilians were massacred in cold blood.

It is disgusting to see that some religous bigots here are ready to sacrifice truth and facts at the altar of lies, misinformation and deceit just to continue to spread their hate filled ideologies.

I see the most ignorant of men become teachers.

How can anybody who claims to have read the Treaty, no matter how daft, claim that the 5 NWS are allowed to retain their arms? NPT said disarm, somebody here is saying retain and exercise an obligation to negotiate a reduction. And you're claiming that someone else is unaware of the document. DID IT SAY NEGOTIATE A REDUCTION? Or NEGOTIATE DISARMAMENT?

I saw one clown somewhere along the thread that made himself a Rabbi in the study of the NPT. Confused fella.

Well, I am forced to go back to the Somalian and Vietnamese issue. You mean to tell me "Operation Gothic Serpent" in 1993 was a peacekeeping mission? An assault force sent in to capture or kill Farrah Aidid who was only previously a friend of the US and a freedom fighter for the liberation of Somalia and for the installation of true democracy? Quite interesting.


Anyway, in order not to stray too far from the discuss at hand, I want to know exactly if Ahmedinejad call you up to say he want to build nuclear bombs? Did you and Mahmoud discuss it over a cup of coffee?

The man says he wants to build a nuclear power plant. Under the NPT, Iran is not only encouraged to develope nuclear power plants, but the 5 Nuclear Weapon States are directed in the NPT to provide him with the materials and help he needs.

Why do you think Non-Nuclear Weapons States (NNWS)sign the NPT? You think that it is just to show loyalty? The benefit in the Treaty for them is that the NWS are to provide them with Nuclear Power Plants and other civilian-use nuclear benefits including medicine and supply of Einsteinium and Fermium for research. Now shebi you're a Nigerian? How many Nuclear Plants have Russia or US or France built in Nigeria, in keeping with the NPT, how many X-ray machines have they brought in. But no you wouldn't see that as violation of the NPT.

The deal is:

"we forfeit nuclear weapons and our security but gain free Nuclear Power Plants, they forfeit assets in terms of providing free Nuclear Power Plants but gain world domination by holding on to their Nuclear Weapons for an unspecified period"

that should be somewhere in article IV.


And then again I have the question of abandoning the NPT. North Korea did not break it. You can withdraw and become just like India, Pakistan or Israel, simply by giving a three months notice. That's all. So the way you people take this NPT thing as if it is a life binding document, it's amazing. Iran however, REFUSED to withdraw from the NPT because it is not making Nuclear weapons. It is when you want to make your own Nuclear Weapon that you resign from the Club. In fact, there are interviews where he says he DOES NOT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH NUCLEAR WEAPONS.

www.globalsecurity.org/wmd/library/news/iran/2006/iran-060921-voa01.htm

if however you have a link, where Mahmoud Ahmadinejad said he wants nuclear weapons, please post it lemme see.


This then brings me to the issue of how many countries have used Nuclear weapons on humans, well, besides Hiroshima & Nagasaki, why don't you try to find out about the use of DEPLETED URANIUM in the Gulf War.

Anyhow, I guess those are still cases of war. So you may want to check out people that never fought a war but got more than Nagasaki bargained for:

www.rmiembassyus.org/Nuclear%20Issues.htm



Then you may also want to know about Nuclear Weapons Sharing which makes nuclear weapons available to Belgium, Italy, Germany et al. I know you love googling, so just google that.

@Afam, you get power O! You no know say wetin some of these Pharisees and Saduccees do today is Selective Ignorance? Which is more deadly than ignorance itself.

I keep asking them why Israel can bomb Americans and there is still no one punished till today:

www.ussliberty.org/jim/ussliberty



In fact, as OBJ said, I'm not supposed to be here. I'm out.

Afam:

Well, it seems that the bombing of Lebanon last year was a minor incident not worthy of being mentioned even when over 1000 civilians were massacred in cold blood.

It is disgusting to see that some religous bigots here are ready to sacrifice truth and facts at the altar of lies, misinformation and deceit just to continue to spread their hate filled ideologies.

What is even more disgusting is the selective reasoning and double standard employed by the likes of you. Lebanon and the palestinian militia are presently embroiled in a much more bitter war and more costly in terms of human casualties and yet you keep silent, only running in to respond when the bullets are from IDF soldiers.
Did we hear you mourn for the victims of Hamas reign of terror in Gaza that is presently taking place?

How many times do the media itself have to prove that the so-called "massacre" in Qana was a propaganda stunt? How many times do we have to be prove that these terrorists employ human shields in order to turn fickle minds like urs against Isreal?

Tornadoz:

I-manThe key word here is ]rhetoric, on the other hand Israelis don't believe in mere rhetorics, they just bomb you.
Would you prefer a neighbour who says I could kill you or the one who really have a defined goal of wiping you out with his bigger gun?

LMFAO! Pure comedy. I mean common! What a farce.

@davidylan

What is even more disgusting is the selective reasoning and double standard employed by the likes of you. Lebanon and the palestinian militia are presently embroiled in a much more bitter war and more costly in terms of human casualties and yet you keep silent, only running in to respond when the bullets are from IDF soldiers.
Did we hear you mourn for the victims of Hamas reign of terror in Gaza that is presently taking place?

Double standard? Haba david. Its the present skirmish between the Lebanese

more bitter war and more costly in terms of human casualties

.
Sorry david but if you were not so biblically cocooned, you would have noticed these waring factions are using century old small arms and tanks. When Israel rained down bombs last year, the purpose was to bomb Lebanon to the stone age. Am sure you did not see Israel using the latest Rockwell B-1B Lancer, the Lockheed C-130 Hercules, the F-14 Tomcat etc against an enemy that was using homemade rockets. Can you really compare the structural damage now to what Israel did with those sophisticated arms, paid for by Washington?
Yet I-man conveniently failed to mention this war. Was this a way of reducing Israel's plentiful acts of aggression?

Tornadoz:

@davidylan
Double standard? Haba david. Its the present skirmish between the Lebanese .

the present skirmish is between the Lebanese army and the islamic jihad palestinian millitants. Even if it were just between Lebanese are the victims any less to be mourned for simply because they were not "massacred" by IDF bullets?

Tornadoz:

Sorry david but if you were not so biblically cocooned, you would have noticed these waring factions are using century old small arms and tanks. When Israel rained down bombs last year, the purpose was to bomb Lebanon to the stone age. Am sure you did not see Israel using the latest Rockwell B-1B Lancer, the Lockheed C-130 Hercules, the F-14 Tomcat etc against an enemy that was using homemade rockets. Can you really compare the structural damage now to what Israel did with those sophisticated arms, paid for by Washington?
Yet I-man conveniently failed to mention this war. Was this a way of reducing Israel's plentiful acts of aggression?

1. This is very daft reasoning. So you expect Isreal to only respond with century old weapons too? What if the sophisticated weapons where with hezbollah,, u think they'll be using only stones and sticks as weapons?
The REAL question you should be asking is NOT the age of the weapons used but why they are being used in the first place! The purpose of the IDF was not to bomb Lebanon discriminately but to dislodge hezbollah that have for the last 6 yrs used Lebanon as a launch pad to launch rockets into Isreal unprovoked. Of course hypocrites like you never notice that!

What do you think the lebanese army is using against the islamic jihad? The same US made weapons the IDF possesses, i am yet to see you crying about that.

the present skirmish is between the Lebanese army and the islamic jihad palestinian millitants. Even if it were just between Lebanese are the victims any less to be mourned for simply because they were not "massacred" by IDF bullets?

The victims are to be mourned, but learn to differentiate between internal conflict, and being bombed by your "superior" neighbour. Nigerian army shooting at Deltan militants can't be equated with say Camerounian tomahawks raining bombs on Port harcourt can it. I still can't see why you would compare the two?

This is very daft reasoning. So you expect Isreal to only respond with century old weapons too?

The entire world saw the overkill except you. Even Condi Rice felt embarrassed when questioned about American inaction.

The REAL question you should be asking is NOT the age of the weapons used but why they are being used in the first place! The purpose of the IDF was not to bomb Lebanon discriminately but to dislodge hezbollah that have for the last 6 years used Lebanon as a launch pad to launch rockets into Isreal unprovoked. Of course hypocrites like you never notice that!

If it was to dislodge hezbollah, why the unnecessary overkill, the structural disaster etc. Can I also remind you Israel
had a large number of Hezbollah in Israeli jails. Kidnapping 1 Israeli soldier was deemed by Israel to be an act of war.

What do you think the lebanese army is using against the islamic jihad? The same US made weapons the IDF possesses, i am yet to see you crying about that.

America is only sending small arms to Lebanon, not cruise missiles. Anyway lets see the out cry in Israel when its used against them.

Na wah O! Somebody is trying to make the Lebanon strike look like self defence. This is the same selective ignorance that we say is inherent in some peoples philosophies.

The Lebanon war was tactically planned right from the time the US appealed to Syria to leave Lebanon, under the pretext that the Lebanese could take care of themselves. There are people that observe international events, and there are people that just wake up in the morning and watch CNN.

denex:

Na wah O! Somebody is trying to make the Lebanon strike look like self defence. This is the same selective ignorance that we say is inherent in some peoples philosophies.

The Lebanon war was tactically planned right from the time the US appealed to Syria to leave Lebanon, under the pretext that the Lebanese could take care of themselves. There are people that observe international events, and there are people that just wake up in the morning and watch CNN.

So the fact that hezbolla crossed the border, attacked, killed and kidnapped Israeli border guards while at the same time launching hundreads of rockets on Israeli towns as a diversion killing innocent civilians was all a mirage? It was all "tactically" planned by the US and Israel?

Insanity and Lunacy are not virtues my dear fellow. They are not traits you should aspire to have and display openly. This is getting ridiculus. This thing only happened last year. the huge thread discussing it is propably not to far down the pages and already people are attempting to turn what we witnessed on it's head?

Tornadoz:

The victims are to be mourned, but learn to differentiate between internal conflict, and being bombed by your "superior" neighbour. Nigerian army shooting at Deltan militants can't be equated with say Camerounian tomahawks raining bombs on Port harcourt can it.

It is not an internal conflict per say. I keep telling you your knowlegde of the Middle East region in general is minimal at best and Middle Eastern politics is nowhere near as clear as Nigeria politics, The refugee camps are virtually independent Palestinian states within Lebanon. A bit like South Lebanon was before the Israeli-Hezbolla war.

At least read up on a topic before trying to disprove what someone has said.

Continuing on
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL25233873

slamist radicals have whipped up a vociferous Internet campaign in support of militant group Fatah al-Islam as it battles the Lebanese army, but al Qaeda's leadership has yet to grant the faction its official blessing.

Tell me are christains the only population in Lebanon? Why should AQ single them out for reprailsals?
http://www.reuters.com/article/worldNews/idUSL2537913420070525

A group calling itself al Qaeda's wing in the Levant vowed to carry out bombings in Lebanon and attacks on Christians unless Beirut pulled its army away from Palestinian refugee camps.

Tell me what have Jews got to do with the Lebanese army action? Is lebanon now an Israeli ally?
http://www.reuters.com/article/latestCrisis/idUSL26732511

A purported leader of the militant Fatah al-Islam group, which has been battling the Lebanese army in a Palestinian refugee camp, vowed on Saturday to fight "the Americans and the Jews"

So Christains and Jews have now combined to wipe out Muslims? Tell me, is this not the pinacle of madness?
http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3411428,00.html

An al-Qaeda affiliated organization in Syria has warned that the lives of Lebanese citizens in Syria would be endangered if the Lebanese army did not end its siege of the Naher el-Bared Palestinian refugee camp in northern Lebanon.

The statement, the second issued by 'Tawhid and Jihad in Syria,' was posted on the al-Firdaws jihadi online forum.

It said Christians in Lebanon were part of a 'united crusader-Jewish front' directed against Muslims, and accused the "Lebanese army, government, intelligence branches and police" of being "the guard dogs of France and America."

Tell me, if they are fighting Lebanese army troops why are they firing rockets into Israel?
http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/C8FFB0DF-AD5A-4495-B29B-717C99DDAB4E.htm

Katyusha rockets have been fired into northern Israel from Lebanon in the first cross-border attack since last year's war between Israel and Hezbollah.

I just saw your post about how the genesis of the war. Quite pretty. You do not believe that this war was about incursions of Israel into the Shebaa Farms.

Well, like I mentioned earlier, let them nuke each other out. Nigeria has nothing to lose but everything to gain. High visa fees from their citizens, oil price at $200/barrel.

Afterall, are they the first to have international land dispute. Why Nigeria and Cameroun never kill each other finish.

Abeg I have things to do. I have a song to write jare.

Tornadoz:

The victims are to be mourned, but learn to differentiate between internal conflict, and being bombed by your "superior" neighbour. Nigerian army shooting at Deltan militants can't be equated with say Camerounian tomahawks raining bombs on Port harcourt can it. I still can't see why you would compare the two?

What is the different between an "internal conflict" and an "external conflict"? Is it goats and cows that are killed in internal conflicts? The Lebanese conflict is NOT an internal conflict it just happens that the islamic jihad chose to use the palestinian refugee camps in Beirut to launch their attacks.

Tornadoz:

The entire world saw the overkill except you. Even Condi Rice felt embarrassed when questioned about American inaction.

Funny that the word "overkill" only applies to Isreal. Hezbollah fired 13000 rockets into Isreal within one month, what do we call that? Had those weapons been more powerful Isreal would long ceased to exist. Hamas is dragging people out of their homes and shooting them in the head and you and ur hypocritical anti-semites see that as underkill?

Tornadoz:

If it was to dislodge hezbollah, why the unnecessary overkill, the structural disaster etc.

If only hezbolah millitants were not dressed as ordiinary women in burqa and their facilities were lying in the open air and not hiding rocket launchers in residential homes and mosques the "unecessary overkill" could have been avoided.

Tornadoz:

Can I also remind you Israel had a large number of Hezbollah in Israeli jails. Kidnapping 1 Israeli soldier was deemed by Israel to be an act of war.

you need to do better than just exhibit verbal diarrhoear. I'm sure those hezbollah terrorists in Isreali jails were innocently minding their business when Isreali soldiers discriminately picked them up and clamped them into jail!

Tornadoz:

America is only sending small arms to Lebanon, not cruise missiles. Anyway lets see the out cry in Israel when its used against them.

Why should America send cruise missiles to Lebanon? So they can immediately turn those missiles at Isreal and US cities? Sometimes i am wont to think a child would be a better person to argue with.

And sorry, unlike the arabs Isreal does not just sit back and shed crocodile tears, they respond when they are provoked only for blind, biased hypocrites like you to turn around and claim "unecessary overkill".

denex:

Na wah O! Somebody is trying to make the Lebanon strike look like self defence. This is the same selective ignorance that we say is inherent in some peoples philosophies.

The Lebanon war was tactically planned right from the time the US appealed to Syria to leave Lebanon, under the pretext that the Lebanese could take care of themselves. There are people that observe international events, and there are people that just wake up in the morning and watch CNN.

You just described urself. You claim the Lebanon strike was not in self defence and yet accuse others of selective ignorance?

Hamas is presently launching rockets into Isreal from Gaza, if Isreal responds that will be an act of "unecessary overkill" dont you think?

denex:

I just saw your post about how the genesis of the war. Quite pretty. You do not believe that this war was about incursions of Israel into the Shebaa Farms.

Shebaa Farms were captured by the Israelis from Syria and not from Lebanon. I think it's logical to conclude that that piece of land will be part of any preace process between Israel and Syria. And Hezbolla themselves stated their attack was about freeing a convicted terrorist imprisoned in Israel.

denex:

Abeg I have things to do. I have a song to write jare.

Music is food for the soul. Write well.

denex:

Afterall, are they the first to have international land dispute. Why Nigeria and Cameroun never kill each other finish.

A good look at Hamas article 24 and the utterances of the Iranian president clearly indicates that this war is not really about land dispute. If not one would expect Namibia to threaten to drive Nigerians off the face of the map for merely laying claim to bakassi peninsula.

this crisis is about Islam and its age long desire to destroy the jewish race. the land is merely an excuse. the westbank and gaza that the palestinians are now shouting about where part of Jordan and Egypt until 1967, surprisingly those countries are not the ones bombing Isreal! What land did Isreal sieze from Iran, Indonesia, Iraq?

[b]Iran claimed today to have stockpiled 100kg of enriched uranium, enough in theory to create two nuclear bombs of the kind that destroyed Hiroshima.




The news will once again stoke fears that President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad's regime is seeking to build a nuclear weapon.

Iran would need 50kg of weapons-grade uranium in order to make one nuclear weapon equal in power to the one dropped by the Americans in 1945.

So far, the regime’s uranium has only been enriched to the level needed for generating electricity in civilian nuclear power stations.

But if Iran chooses to enrich it to 84 per cent purity, it would reach weapons-grade level and become the essential material for building a bomb.

Mustapha Pourmohammedi, Iran's interior minister, told the official news agency that the moment of maximum international pressure on his country had passed and that Teheran would press ahead with its nuclear programme.

"When the world saw that the nation is pursuing this goal with unity, the world has surrendered. We have passed the dangerous moment," he said.

By storing such a high quantity of low-enriched uranium, President Ahmadinejad's regime is widening its options.

It could choose to enrich the stockpiled uranium to weapons-grade level in a matter of months – perhaps after formally withdrawing from the nuclear non-proliferation treaty and breaking out of all international safeguards.

Iran claims that its nuclear ambitions are entirely peaceful and designed to do nothing more than generate electricity for its growing population of 70 million. But western governments disbelieve this assertion.

Iran is defying three United Nations resolutions with its nuclear programme. In spite of international pressure to halt the programme it announced in April that it had started enriching uranium on an "industrial scale".

Uranium is enriched using machines called centrifuges. These have now been installed in Iran's nuclear plant at Natanz. A snap inspection by the International Atomic Energy Agency last month found that 1,312 centrifuges were operating.

Iran's official target is to bring 3,000 into action – enough to produce sufficient weapons-grade uranium for one bomb in about a year.[/b]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml;jsessionid=SB1RCRO5115K3QFIQMFCFFOAVCBQYIV0?xml=/news/2007/06/22/wnuke122.xml

Thank God this article has set it straight that Iran is only trying to generate electricity but some other countries suspect otherwise.

denex:

Thank God this article has set it straight that Iran is only trying to generate electricity but some other countries suspect otherwise.

arent u being too naive? Do you really think if Iran had a way of enriching uraniaum further they wouldnt take the chance to develop a weapon?