AnonyNymous:
And what if the driver knows nothing about fixing cars?

You got me there
So you go with the car-driver analogy right?

HardMirror:

You got me there

So you go with the car-driver analogy right?

Yeah I guess. It seems like a pretty good ananlogy

grandstar:



First and foremost, man is not a spirit. Genesis 2:7 says "God formed man out of the dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life and man became a living soul".

So man is a soul and not a spirit. The breath of life is at times called spirit.

The life force is not a person. All animals have this life force (Read Ecclesiastes 3:18-22). All animals too are souls.

The soul can die (Read Ezekiel 18:4,20)
When the life force leaves us, we die or become dead souls.

When the Bible says the "life force or spirit" returns to God as written in Psalms 146:3,4, it simply means that any hope of a resurrection lies with God.

FOR more accurate information, visit jw.org

Hmmm...
I am learning. Thanks

adepeter26:

@boldened...

Are you a medical student? What makes you to be too sure that when the heart stops beating, one dies and not the brain.

Pls, i wanna learn oo because what you said above is 101% wrong that its the heart that keeps one living.

Have you ever wondered why it is the heart Doctors check before pronouncement of death?

AnonyNymous:
Yeah I guess. It seems like a pretty good ananlogy

Does the spiritual influence the physical?

AnonyNymous:

A lot of esoteric religions say the spirit is connected to the body by a 'sliver cord'. I don't know what this cord exactly is, but let's say its just a figure of speech for the connection between the body and the spirit. Now the spirit supposedly has no idea of how the cord was connected but just figured out how to use the body. (Figured out how to drive the car).

You asked, why can't the spirit come back into the body after strangulation? Well, if you're inside a car and people start burning and breaking, you'll eventually have to jump out. Will you be able to go back into the car after they've stopped hitting it? Its still burning (body is decaying). I was reading something about what is supposed to be the connection between blood and the spirit but haven't finished so I won't say what I don't know, but I think basically, all they're saying is that the spirit only lives in the body as long as its working, and once the 'silver cord' has been severed, then the spirit is completely disconnected. For NDEs and OBEs the silver cord is merely 'stretched' but it hasn't been completely broken, because the body hasn't yet reached a 'point of no return'.

What a twist. I must confess, you are making sense here. There may be something to the spirit theory after all.
Thanks for taking tome to share ur knowledge. It's simple but logical theoretically. So what proves for spirits do you have. Let's see where this takes us.

HardMirror:

Does the spiritual influence the physical?

Only through a physical medium. The spiritual is supposedly on a different 'frequency' from the physical and therefore cannot have direct contact with the physical without some sort of 'medium'.

I want you to note that these are things I'm learning and can't say I'm fully convinced in and I'd encourage you to make your own findings too

HardMirror:

Very interesting take on the subject. Thank you sir

But I maintain that as long as the brain is alive, you are alive even if your heart stops beating. You eventually die only because oxygenated blood is not getting to the brain.

I loved the body being dead and useless to the spirit take on the subject.

Yea if the brain is alive , but when the heart stops the brain will follow suite. But I av always wondered why Doctors confirms death via the heart instead of the brain. Or does the death of the brain automatically signals the potential death of the brain? If so, aw many seconds, minutes, or even hours can the brain stay alive when the heart stops beating?

Intrepid01:


Yea if the brain is alive , but when the heart stops the brain will follow suite. But I av always wondered why Doctors confirms death via the heart instead of the brain. Or does the death of the brain automatically signals the potential death of the brain? If so, aw many seconds, minutes, or even hours can the brain stay alive when the heart stops beating?

Yes if the doctor is sure of inability to revive the heart, he could as well pronounce the patient dead, knowing fully well that in a few minutes the brain is sure to die too

HardMirror:

What a twist. I must confess, you are making sense here. There may be something to the spirit theory after all.
Thanks for taking tome to share ur knowledge. It's simple but logical theoretically. So what proves for spirits do you have. Let's see where this takes us.

I actually have no proof to be honest. Everything I say is a culmination of personal experiences, things I've read, things people have shared with me, and so on.

I just searched for the link and found it, here's the first thing I read that actually made me.consider that a soul could possibly exist. Give it the benefit of doubt while reading lol.

https://endgametime./the-awakening-quantum-mechanics-of-the-human-brain-and-consciousness/

AnonyNymous:

A lot of esoteric religions say the spirit is connected to the body by a 'sliver cord'. I don't know what this cord exactly is, but let's say its just a figure of speech for the connection between the body and the spirit. Now the spirit supposedly has no idea of how the cord was connected but just figured out how to use the body. (Figured out how to drive the car).

You asked, why can't the spirit come back into the body after strangulation? Well, if you're inside a car and people start burning and breaking, you'll eventually have to jump out. Will you be able to go back into the car after they've stopped hitting it? Its still burning (body is decaying). I was reading something about what is supposed to be the connection between blood and the spirit but haven't finished so I won't say what I don't know, but I think basically, all they're saying is that the spirit only lives in the body as long as its working, and once the 'silver cord' has been severed, then the spirit is completely disconnected. For NDEs and OBEs the silver cord is merely 'stretched' but it hasn't been completely broken, because the body hasn't yet reached a 'point of no return'.

This sounds so hypothetical than scientific or logical....I'm not disputing what you've said, I don't even have the fact to dispute it. .. ........But come to think of it...why is science always finding explanations for every existing fact? They hardly work from problem to solution, mostly backward....the very reason why some of their postulations can be regarded as "logical truth".....

AnonyNymous:

I actually have no proof to be honest. Everything I say is a culmination of personal experiences, things I've read, things people have shared with me, and so on.

I just searched for the link and found it, here's the first thing I read that actually made me.consider that a soul could possibly exist. Give it the benefit of doubt while reading lol.

https://endgametime./the-awakening-quantum-mechanics-of-the-human-brain-and-consciousness/

It's a theory but it's making sense to me. Thanks for sharing and being honest

HardMirror:

Yes if the doctor is sure of inability to revive the heart, he could as well pronounce the patient dead, knowing fully well that in a few minutes the brain is sure to die too

Hmmm....who or what says the brain must die after the heart stops beating? What is the reason for that, if true? ....what if many brain working but dead heart people have been buried?...just wondering

Intrepid01:



This sounds so hypothetical than scientific or logical....I'm not disputing what you've said, I don't even have the fact to dispute it. .. ........But come to think of it...why is science always finding explanations for every existing fact? They hardly work from problem to solution, mostly backward....the very reason why some of their postulations can be regarded as "logical truth".....

No no no. His postulation is logical, but not empirical. There is a big difference bro. Yes it may be disregarded scientifically because it's not empirical. But philosophically, his argument stands

HardMirror:

It's a theory but it's making sense to me. Thanks for sharing and being honest

You're welcome. All everyone really wants to know is the truth

Intrepid01:


Hmmm....who or what says the brain must die after the heart stops beating? What is the reason for that, if true? ....what if many brain working but dead heart people have been buried?...just wondering

This could be the reason for the "Lazarus Effect " where people declared dead return to life.
Doctors are not perfect. The depend on your vital signs to determine if you are alive or dead. Would take a lot more testing to totally declare a man dead. Even when your brain, heart and lungs stop working, you still have a lot of living cells in your body, they alive, but the organs are not functioning anymore, cellular death sets in, decay sets in.

HardMirror:

No no no. His postulation is logical, but not empirical. There is a big difference bro. Yes it may be disregarded scientifically because it's not empirical. But philosophically, his argument stands

My problem exactly.....as far as i know, phyloaophy is purely theoretical and baseless. It would sound so sweet and fitting but far from the truth. I think it would be more educative of we stick with science and religion.

AnonyNymous:

You're welcome. All everyone really wants to know is the truth

I doubt that strongly, many wld rather remain baised and blinded to the possibilities of the existence of spirits or their nonexistence

[quote author=HardMirror post=52468454]
This could be the reason for the "Lazarus Effect " where people declared dead return to life.
Doctors are not perfect. The depend on your vital signs to determine if you are alive or dead. Would take a lot more testing to totally declare a man dead. Even when your brain, heart and lungs stop working, you still have a lot of living cells in your body, they alive, but the organs are not functioning anymore, cellular death sets in, decay sets in. [/quo

OMG! !!!!did you just directly dispute Jesus miracle at the tomb of Lazarus?.....I'll let you create a separate thread for that before taking you up....it would surely be an interesting subject to discuss.

I do not agree with your insinuation that some cells may still be alive after the death of the vital organs. Bros, those cells are living and functioning based on signals from the CNS and PNS , both are directly linked to the brain and spinal cord.

Intrepid01:


My problem exactly.....as far as i know, phyloaophy is purely theoretical and baseless. It would sound so sweet and fitting but far from the truth. I think it would be more educative of we stick with science and religion.

Philosophy is not baseless. It's the beginning of science, you ask questions then go ahead to test them scientifically.

We have established some philosophical theories, now let's see how science and religion addresses them

What is the proof for life (automation of the human body) being connected to the spirit? Is the spirit even a real thing?

[quote author=HardMirror post=52468454]
This could be the reason for the "Lazarus Effect " where people declared dead return to life.
Doctors are not perfect. The depend on your vital signs to determine if you are alive or dead. Would take a lot more testing to totally declare a man dead. Even when your brain, heart and lungs stop working, you still have a lot of living cells in your body, they alive, but the organs are not functioning anymore, cellular death sets in, decay sets in. [/quo

OMG! !!!!did you just directly dispute Jesus miracle at the tomb of Lazarus?.....I'll let you create a separate thread for that before taking you up....it would surely be an interesting subject to discuss.

I do not agree with your insinuation that some cells ma9y still be alive after the death of the vital organs. Bros, those cells are living and functioning based on signals from the CNS and PNS , both are directly linked to the brain and spinal cord.

[quote author=Intrepid01 post=52468822][/quote]
Google the "Lazarus effect" it is a medical term. I am not talking about lazarus in the bible.
It is also called the "lazarus syndrome"

HardMirror:

I doubt that strongly, many wld rather remain baised and blinded to the possibilities of the existence of spirits or their nonexistence

Well you're right about that, something I read described the 'laziness' of humans, saying we would rather walk with crutches that some pastor or religious leader has prepared for us despite the fact that we have two healthy, working legs.
There is indoctrination from both sides, when I was an atheist, I got there by questioning everything I had believed and arrived at that point, but I later found myself almost becoming like the religious people I loved to condemn- someone brought forth a sound argument and I found myself denying its validity despite the fact that it actually seemed pretty reasonable to me. I was racking my brain for what argument I could use to refute it/whatever I could say to reassure myself that it didn't make sense.

It can happen to anyone. I think the best thing is to constantly remind yourself to keep your mind open while still using my brain.

And oh, if you care to know, I now identify as an agnostic. . .agnostic deist. Basically saying that any 'god' that could exist, if god exists, (who or what it/he/she is, as its/his/her nature remains completely unknown) does not interfere with the affairs of the physical world as everything has already been put into place

AnonyNymous:

Well you're right about that, something I read described the 'laziness' of humans, saying we would rather walk with crutches that some pastor or religious leader has prepared for us despite the fact that we have two healthy, working legs.
There is indoctrination from both sides, when I was an atheist, I got there by questioning everything I had believed and arrived at that point, but I later found myself almost becoming like the religious people I loved to condemn- someone brought forth a sound argument and I found myself denying its validity despite the fact that it actually seemed pretty reasonable to me. I was racking my brain for what argument I could use to refute it/whatever I could say to reassure myself that it didn't make sense.

It can happen to anyone. I think the best thing is to constantly remind yourself to keep your mind open while still using my brain.

And oh, if you care to know, I now identify as an agnostic. . .agnostic deist. Basically saying that any 'god' that could exist, if god exists, (who or what it/he/she is, as its/his/her nature remains completely unknown) does not interfere with the affairs of the physical world as everything has already been put into place

This is what is killing the religion section of nairaland

Intrepid01:



This sounds so hypothetical than scientific or logical....I'm not disputing what you've said, I don't even have the fact to dispute it. .. ........But come to think of it...


why is science always finding explanations for every existing fact? They hardly work from problem to solution, mostly backward

....the very reason why some of their postulations can be regarded as "logical truth".....

the bolded you mean science starts from solution to problem? can you explain

HardMirror:
Many will claim we are alive because of the spirits in us. If this was true, I strongly believe men would be immortal. It would be impossible to kill us through physical means

Religion:
We die when our spirit leaves our body.

Science: You are alive because of the metabolism going on at the cellular level. The metabolism provides energy to keep your body running just like a car needs fuel. Your brain coordinates the activity of your body, so most of this energy needs to get to the brain. Cut off supply from the brain, the brain dies, the body dies.

MY QUESTION
If the spirit is the reason why a man is a living soul and not the brain, why is it that hanging which cuts off oxygen from the brain leads to death? Why should shooting a man leading to bleeding and shortage of blood for the brain lead to death?
If I was shot and I am alive because my spirit lives in my body, then I would be immortal, because I would stubbornly remain in my body and stay alive. My spirit is going no where. Poison me, shoot me, stab me, burn me. My spirit will choose to stay in my body and keep it alive. Men would be immortal. so why is this not the case.

I dont really believ in spirits and all that but ill put it this way
Lets liken the body to a car and the spirit to a driver
The driver controls the car (spirit controls the body...maybe its housed in the brain and controls it the way the driver controls the steering and gears in a manual car)
If the car(body) is damaged beyond repair then the driver(spirit) steps out until he is able to get a new car(body);probably why some religions belive in reincarnation (spirit finding a new body)

HardMirror:
Many will claim we are alive because of the spirits in us. If this was true, I strongly believe men would be immortal. It would be impossible to kill us through physical means

Religion:
We die when our spirit leaves our body.

Science: You are alive because of the metabolism going on at the cellular level. The metabolism provides energy to keep your body running just like a car needs fuel. Your brain coordinates the activity of your body, so most of this energy needs to get to the brain. Cut off supply from the brain, the brain dies, the body dies.

MY QUESTION
If the spirit is the reason why a man is a living soul and not the brain, why is it that hanging which cuts off oxygen from the brain leads to death? Why should shooting a man leading to bleeding and shortage of blood for the brain lead to death?
If I was shot and I am alive because my spirit lives in my body, then I would be immortal, because I would stubbornly remain in my body and stay alive. My spirit is going no where. Poison me, shoot me, stab me, burn me. My spirit will choose to stay in my body and keep it alive. Men would be immortal. so why is this not the case.

please remove your heart, lungs and kidney.... since you only need the brain.... the spirit is essential... the spirit is the real you... its what makes you different from everyone else.... if there is nothing like spirit then starve your brain of oxygen till you die... then let someone restore oxygen to your system after you die.... if you wake up... I'll gladly leave my faith

chiraqDemon:


I dont really believ in spirits and all that but ill put it this way
Lets liken the body to a car and the spirit to a driver
The driver controls the car (spirit controls the body...maybe its housed in the brain and controls it the way the driver controls the steering and gears in a manual car)
If the car(body) is damaged beyond repair then the driver(spirit) steps out until he is able to get a new car(body);probably why some religions belive in reincarnation (spirit finding a new body)

That is the same thing I am saying too. So what are the evidences for the existence of spirits

HardMirror:

That is the same thing I am saying too. So what are the evidences for the existence of spirits

I haven't seen any
Its why i dont believe in em
Oh sorry i didnt see ur earlier post lol
I thought i was the first in the thread to use the driver car theory but u beat me to it

Wilgrea7:


please remove your heart, lungs and kidney.... since you only need the brain.... the spirit is essential... the spirit is the real you... its what makes you different from everyone else.... if there is nothing like spirit then starve your brain of oxygen till you die... then let someone restore oxygen to your system after you die.... if you wake up... I'll gladly leave my faith

I thought this thread was for Intellectual to Discuss Where did this one come from

Deicide:

I thought this thread was for Intellectual to Discuss Where did this one come from

oga no vex

Wilgrea7:


oga no vex

I am not but you should have watch others....b4 commenting?