Lagosboy:

My good pal The thing wey happen be say Ifys heart was illuminated and she decided to bow in submission to God without associating any partners in him and she was convinced about Muahmmed PBUH being the Prophet of God Likewise Jesus PBUH.
I am patiently waiting for the day you will toe this path yourself inshallah!!

Dear brother ,I sense sincerity in your heart and it is plausible that if Usman Dan Fodio had gotten to my great grandfather's village earlier I could have been where you are at the moment with a name like Ismaila,Hakeem,Isiaka or something similar .

However God in His infinite mercy did not make it this way.

I have said the shadadah many times with my childhood friends when we used to play football on the streets of surulere many years ago,after they come back from 'ile-kewu' we would recite lai la illalau. . . alif,ba, ta, tha etc. However that doesn't make me a muslim,neither is it possible to become one.

I have read the Quran twice and the Bible many times more and although the core fundamentals are similar,I do not agree with many aspects of Islam.

I love muslims however & Insha Allah - Muki will become my wife in due course . I will christen her Mary. Alhamdulilah ! 

On the issue of Trinity,Allah clearly made you aware of this,but you probably have not come across these verses in the Qu'ran :

Sura 6 vs.94
"And behold! ye come to Us bare and alone as We created you for the first time. . ."

Sura 7 vs.11
"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; . . ."

Q.23 vs.12
"Verily We created man from a product of wet earth. . ."

Q.21 vs.73
"And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve"  (trans. by Pickthal: "and they were worshippers of Us (alone).".

No,i and my Partner were Christians b4.I did not marry a born Muslim.

what's your partner's tribe?

i'm aware he's not Igbo.

i assume he's yoruba, middle belt, or ghanaian.

abi na white?

other option is south south but you dont seem to interact with the south southerners that much, so maybe that part should be ruled out.

illusion2:

Really? So wetin come happen ? 

Please share your testimony. . . .

I noticed you metioned 'partner' & not 'husband'  . . .

Husband,Husband and Husband.
lol

tpiah:

what's your partner's tribe?

i[b]'m aware he's not Igbo.[/b]

i assume he's yoruba, middle belt, or ghanaian.

abi na white?

other option is south south but you dont seem to interact with the south southerners that much, so maybe that part should be ruled out.

lol
Hes Igbo.

illusion2:

Dear brother ,I sense sincerity in your heart and it is plausible that if Usman Dan Fodio had gotten to my great grandfather's village earlier I could have been where you are at the moment with a name like Ismaila,Hakeem,Isiaka or something similar .

However God in His infinite mercy did not make it this way.

I have said the shadadah many times with my childhood friends when we used to play football on the streets of surulere many years ago,after they come back from 'ile-kewu' we would recite lai la illalau. . . alif,ba, ta, tha etc. However that doesn't make me a muslim,neither is it possible to become one.

I have read the Quran twice and the Bible many times more and although the core fundamentals are similar,I do not agree with many aspects of Islam.

I love muslims however & Insha Allah - Muki will become my wife in due course . I will christen her Mary. Alhamdulilah ! 

On the issue of Trinity,Allah clearly made you aware of this,but you probably have not come across these verses in the Qu'ran :

Sura 6 vs.94
"And behold! ye come to Us bare and alone as We created you for the first time. . ."

Sura 7 vs.11
"It is We Who created you and gave you shape; . . ."

Q.23 vs.12
"Verily We created man from a product of wet earth. . ."

Q.21 vs.73
"And We made them Imams who guided (people) by Our command, and We revealed to them the doing of good and the keeping up of prayer and the giving of the alms, and Us (alone) did they serve"  (trans. by Pickthal: "and they were worshippers of Us (alone).".

I'm most surprised at you bringing that deeply discussed issue here and at this very moment to defend your many times debunked doctrine of Trinity, illusion2. You are not a newbie here. Not at all. That vividly reminds me of our former "friends" (who mostly have gone to oblivion) such as Neotic, Osisi, Davidylan among others who so often talked about that. Sir Olabowale, remarkably, in consort with a few of us tirelessly all the time explained that, citing as many convincing references as possible from both other Qur'anic verses and Yoruba (and/or Hausa) language. But they never believe. Pity.

Well, the question isn't directed to me--as the whole thread is not 'mine' but Sheikh Lagosboy's. But I wish illusion2 cares to google the question and see how many sites he'll be given, why because its an age old held "loose" of Islam by fellow but eager Christians all over the world. Care to do that?

BTW, forgive me if my words sound bad. I just feel I should pronounce them because of their relevance--although they don't answer the questions you posed. Thanks for your understanding. I wish you all the best.

ifyalways:

Husband,Husband and Husband.
lol lol
Hes Igbo.

oh, i thought you once mentioned your partner wasnt igbo.


guess i was wrong.

Dear Bro Muhsin (not Mushin  ),

I honestly catch your drift. The point I'm making is that no one has all the answers. No matter how you try to explain away those verses. . . . they are quite clear to anyone that reads in.

Allah refers to himself in the singular many times in the Qu'ran as well, so why this?

The similarity of the above suras and God referring to Himself in the plural in Genesis 1:26 as well as in singular in may other verses (e.g Ex 3:14) is quite striking my friend,so don't always feel -" those christians are idol worshippers,they don't know what they are doing " .

There are 2 possible explanations of the suras above - one of which is my theory on the Trinity. The other is Olabowale's theory. . . so . . .you believe what you want. I hope you catch my drift 

@illusion

You must have the muslims explantion before like bro Muhsin highlighted but let me quickly explain it again.

The Quran wasnot revealed in english but arabic and no christian arab would ever ever use this arguement of 'we' to justify trinity. This is because yoruba is similar to arabic in some terms and etymology. When a king in yourba wants to adrees himself he says "awa npa yin lase" "We are commanding you" The 'WE" doesnt indicate there are two kings but a language of nobility and status. I n arabic Allah sometimes uses "Ana" (I) for himself ans sometimes uses "Nahnu" WE for himself signifying his status. In english it is called the Royal WEand was previously used by the royals centuries ago.

Understanding the science of balagah(rhetoric) will enable us appreciate the variances in style when Allah uses I and WE, it depends on the context , situation and completes the poetical eloquency of the Quran which you can only appreciate if you understand tthe arabic language. That is why i said no christian strong arabic speaker would use the arguement of WE.

Again Let us You and Me worship our one and only true God in whose hand is our soul , The lord of Adam, Abraham, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad PBUT all. Let us worship him without associating partners to him in his majesty . I understand ibn fodio did not penetrate SW Nigeria but you could join the millions of white, brown, latino, chinese , black non muslims ebracing islam yearly. It is never to late good pal. Never say never

tpiah:

oh, i thought you once mentioned your partner wasnt igbo.


guess i was wrong.

Aunty wetin be your own sef nah , person say im husband be igbo u still dey remember what she metnioned a while ago wetin u won use whwere her husband com from do sef. I tire o

Lagosboy:

@illusion

You must have the muslims explantion before like bro Muhsin highlighted but let me quickly explain it again.

The Quran wasnot revealed in english but arabic and no christian arab would ever ever use this arguement of 'we' to justify trinity. This is because yoruba is similar to arabic in some terms and etymology. When a king in yourba wants to adrees himself he says "awa npa yin lase" "We are commanding you" The 'WE" doesnt indicate there are two kings but a language of nobility and status. I n arabic Allah sometimes uses "Ana" (I) for himself ans sometimes uses "Nahnu" WE for himself signifying his status. In english it is called the Royal WE and was previously used by the royals centuries ago.

Exactly! So it is in Hausa; not even an emir addresses himself using "WE", an ordinary-royal-family wannabe uses "WE" referring to himself. We can understand something (here) as: if a created soul, feeling "proud and pride" of himself uses the plurality of "WE", what of his/her Creator? We can say (because so it is) that He has every right to do so.

More-over, Qur'an is never and can never be 100% correctly translated using any language. Remember it's a book which Allah specially revealed to show his Power, Wisdom and everything--to the extent which it makes it inimitable. Qur'an challenges all (then and even now) to produce any book like it, but none is yet produced; not can be. Thats why. Hence translation can only and only serve some purposes.

Regarding above, lest you don't know, illusion2: some translations are in today's Muslim world discredited. For example, Yusuf Ali's among others.

illusion2:

Dear Bro Muhsin (not Mushin  ),

You are correct. Lol!

There are 2 possible explanations of the suras above - one of which is my theory on the Trinity. The other is Olabowale's theory. . . so . . .you believe what you want. I hope you catch my drift 

I would like you to shed more light on that theory--yours; I know of Olabowale's not because it's the one want but its the one I believe in and its the one I know is right as many facts show.

I wish you all the best.

Lagosboy:

@illusion
You must have the muslims explantion before like bro Muhsin highlighted but let me quickly explain it again.

The Quran wasnot revealed in english but arabic and no christian arab would ever ever use this arguement of 'we' to justify trinity. This is because yoruba is similar to arabic in some terms and etymology. When a king in yourba wants to adrees himself he says "awa npa yin lase" "We are commanding you" The 'WE" doesnt indicate there are two kings but a language of nobility and status. I n arabic Allah sometimes uses "Ana" (I) for himself ans sometimes uses "Nahnu" WE for himself signifying his status. In english it is called the Royal WEand was previously used by the royals centuries ago.

Ore mi atata,ojo t'o ba bere si ni ma lo 'emi' abi 'awa' fun ara e, Yaba left l'oda ni yen o   .(My dearest friend ,the day you begin to use 'we' or 'us' for yourself. . . na psychiatric ward be dat o !)

Isn't it interesting ,how we begin to look at etymolgy,sentence construction,context and predicates for some suras and yet we take some just as they are for e.g when the Qu'ran talks about not eating pork,has anyone cared to investigate why ? Probably it isn't really forbidden when we take the pronouncement in context  

Or covering your hair,hands,feet or women shaving pubic hair (one of my main concerns with Islam   ).

So let's always take everythiing in context or leave as is . . . . .  

muhsin:

You are correct. Lol!
I would like you to shed more light on that theory--yours;

Very simple. . . Allah was refering to the GodHead - The Father ,The Son and The Holy Spirit.

3-in-1 , One Immutable ,Immortal ,OmniPotent & OmniPresent God.

You cannot fathom him like 2+1 =3. But Trinity it is.

The more I read the Qu'ran,the more the Bible is confirmed. I am beginning to believe the Holy Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) had a sound knowledge of the Bible,but as we all agree he was both a spiritual and a political leader.

The political side . . . . (I'll reserve comment for now).

illusion2:

Very simple. . . Allah was refering to the GodHead - The Father ,The Son and The Holy Spirit.

3-in-1, One Immutable ,Immortal ,OmniPotent & OmniPresent God.

You cannot fathom him like 2+1 =3. But Trinity it is.

Allah, the Exalted, wasn't referring to anything like this. What can you say about other numerous verses that say direct opposite of you false thinking? Let's presume your "explanation" of the verse(s) is correct, how did you arrive to that?

Our God, Allah, the Exalted, is 1-in-1; He's nothing like 3-in-1, 1-in-3 or whatsoever. Allah is One with no partners to Him. He is One in His Self, Attributes, and Actions.

Suratul Ikhlas (C. 112) has said it all:

In the name Of Allah, The most Gracious, The Most Merciful.

Say, Allah is One,
Allah The Everlasting, The Eternal,
He has not given birth and was not born,
And no one is comparable to Him.

illusion2:

The more I read the Qu'ran,the more the Bible is confirmed. I am beginning to believe the Holy Prophet Mohammed (pbuh) had a sound knowledge of the Bible,but as we all agree he was both a spiritual and a political leader.

Hmm. You do not believe in anything (positive) about the noble Prophet, Muhammad (SAW). If did you wouldn't have been a Christian. So address him the way you actually wanted to; don't do anything to "please" us. That's unlike we Muslim who believe in everything positive with Jesus (PBUH) and his mother; and the revelation sent to him by his Creator, Sender and whom he worshiped.

The political side . . . . (I'll reserve comment for now).

Thats the most interesting one I want to read coming from you. Waiting. . .

illusion2:

Ore mi atata,ojo t'o ba bere si ni ma lo 'emi' abi 'awa' fun ara e, Yaba left l'oda ni yen o   .(My dearest friend ,the day you begin to use 'we' or 'us' for yourself. . . na psychiatric ward be dat o !)

Isn't it interesting ,how we begin to look at etymolgy,sentence construction,context and predicates for some suras and yet we take some just as they are for e.g when the Qu'ran talks about not eating pork,has anyone cared to investigate why ? Probably it isn't really forbidden when we take the pronouncement in context  

Or covering your hair,hands,feet or women shaving pubic hair (one of my main concerns with Islam   ).

So let's always take everythiing in context or leave as is . . . . .  

Although I'm stiffly afraid you may mis-comprehend what I got to say regarding this, I'll say it.

You sound like an unrepentant atheist there. Islam, like any other "religions", heavily gets a lot to do with dogmatism. I'm not saying, in any way, there's no wisdom in any set down dos and donts in Islam (or generally religions), but if thats what you adherently want to see, understand and believe then better renounce your faith. And there's absolutely none you'll ever embrace in.

And regarding taking things in context is what many non-Muslims (and very sadly and unfortunately even some Muslims) do to justify killing in the Qur'an or other snooty actions. More-over, some Muslims too do so to back up their pedestrian understanding of the Bible. I know. So, unless and until we distant ourselves to doing so we'd better forget understanding one another.

Lastly, got an example to set: is there a wisdom in carrying an ordinary wooden/metal cross and say it's there to protect its holder? What's protective in it?

We already know Allah our Lord is One As in surat Alikhlass 112:1-4 but why Allah the Lord use "WE "to refer to Himself in many verse or ayat in the Koran? for example he says in surat Alanbiya 21 :107""And We did not send you (Mohamed)except as a Mercy to the world" why does Allah use ''WE''
instead of '' I'' to refer to himself ?
We all know the Koran says clearly that there is only One God Allah "there is no God but Allah" is the basic principle of Islam there is no ambiguity about this fact in the Koran and there are  hundreds of ayats or  verses that make this pont very clear   Belief in more than one God is shirk (polytheism) and a major sin according to the  Koran actually the only sin that Allah promise he will never forgive
Whenever in the Koran Allah is mentioned in third person there are always singular pronouns used such as Him He ( hua,or Hu)
when Allah is spoken to in the second person there are always singular pronoun You thou (Anta, Ka) however only in the first person sometimes the pronouns" I "My or Mine (Ana, Iyaya ,Ya) are used and sometimes "We ,Us and Our ( Nahnu ,Na) are used
This is  a style of speech and as an Arabic native speaker I know sometimes the speaker says  I and sometimes says we  We always use that in our conversations In the Koran you will see that often the first person singular such as I or My is used when Allah speaks about his Love care closeness
and forgiveness for his servant In similar way the first person Plural is often used when Allah tries  to emphasize something or  speak about his Power Majesty Glory, Great deeds or when he speaks about His anger and wrath for the sinners and criminals  ( this is of course the general use sometimes the reverse is also the case depending on the context of the surah
some Christians writers in their desperate desire to prove their doctrine of "trinity"have sometimes interpreted some biblical passages where first person plural is used to suggest that means the "divine trinity"for example in the Bible it is mentioned "then God said"Let  us make  man in our Image " Genesis 1:26 Christians writers contend that this means that there is plurality in God (We seek Allah 's Forgiveness for mentioning this blasphemy)
sometimes Christians missionaries also go to simple Muslims and try to confuse them by taking some verses from the Koran and tell them that the Koran also  supports  such doctrines I will  try  to explain this in some details and examples whenever  I can because I have often heard this type of questions from some Christians

muhsin:
Hmm. You do not believe in anything (positive) about the noble Prophet, Muhammad (SAW). If did you wouldn't have been a Christian. So address him the way you actually wanted to; don't do anything to "please" us. That's unlike we Muslim who believe in everything positive with Jesus (PBUH) and his mother; and the revelation sent to him by his Creator, Sender and whom he worshiped.

On the contrary I do have positive views of the holy Prophet Mohammed (pbuh),and that is the point I’m trying to prove.

We do not have to hate each other even if our ‘religious’ beliefs are different (more on RELIGION  down below)

You are also right in that I would have preferred to do without Holy, Prophet or pbuh, but because I appreciate your religious sensibilities, I choose to use these appellations.

On the spiritual and most moral aspects I think the prophet was spot on. His view of and respect for life and other religions was also worthy of emulations.

However I think the POLITICAL side of the prophet which makes up majority of the Qur’an and hadiths is where many (wrongly) draw their conclusions. And though’ most moderate Muslims will not publicly accept it- they also have their reservations.

Just a brief intro on Politics and Spirituality.
The birth of Jesus Christ was foretold in the old (Jewish) Testament of the Bible,(e.g  Isaiah 7:14 ,Jer 23:5 etc).
In all the above prophecies the Jewish people believed (and still belief till today) that the Messiah (Al Masih in the Qu’ran) would not only be a spiritual leader but also a political one to emancipate/deliver  them from the foreign occupation they were going through.

At the time of Jesus birth it was Roman colonization ,before then   you had an assorted crew of alien administrators  who ran amok in the Jewish lands (like Israel is doing to the Palestinians now ) . So the coming of the Messiah could not have come at a better time. He was expected to lead the ‘independence’ fight and bring back the dynastic rule of King David.

However, he disappointed all, by emphasising a Heavenly Kingdom instead.
He avoided anything political and focused on human kind making heaven.

And this is where the distinction lies ,the prophet of Islam I suspect got involved in the political side of this mission (not by his own initial doing of course) and this is where I suspect things took a turn .

And so what you would find as ‘Islamic’ or ‘Sharia’ finance, customs, etc have nothing to do with God directly, as all cultures  develop these systems over time. But are purely human inventions garbed with religious nostalgic undertones for political purposes and to bring uniformity to a political entity.
So are laws on apostasy, infidelity etc. These are laws set by men to administer a people

It’s just like someone saying the atomic bomb is Jewish because it was first invented by a Jew.

So if we remove the political side of the religion (caliphate, wars, taxation,imposition etc). We have a faith in God (Islam) which is near complete as one would have it.

Many Muslims believe one cannot have complete faith in God without all these other (non-spiritual aspects) but just like we have been encouraged to read all our religious texts in and out of contexts.  . . it is important we place every aspect of the Qur’an in contexts of history, politics, time as well as environment.

muhsin:

Allah, the Exalted, wasn't referring to anything like this. What can you say about other numerous verses that say direct opposite of you false thinking? Let's presume your "explanation" of the verse(s) is correct, how did you arrive to that?

And when did you become the Divine interpreter? How are  you to know exactly what Allah was referring to ?

muhsin:

Our God, Allah, the Exalted, is 1-in-1; He's nothing like 3-in-1, 1-in-3 or whatsoever. Allah is One with no partners to Him. He is One in His Self, Attributes, and Actions.
Suratul Ikhlas (C. 112) has said it all:
In the name Of Allah, The most Gracious, The Most Merciful.
Say, Allah is One,
Allah The Everlasting, The Eternal,
He has not given birth and was not born,
And no one is comparable to Him.

Can you explain how God can be Omnipresent in a simple rational, scientific manner? I guess not.
How can One God read the thoughts of over 6 billion human beings at the same time??
The point I’m trying to make my friend is that we should not try to explain God with our rational, objective mind. And that’s why I gave the illustration as 3 in 1 is not the same scientific or mathematical 2+1.

Now the issue of Jesus Christ being the only begotten son of God is an issue with muslims,which is fine. Just as a lot of what we both believe cannot be reasonably explained in a scientific rational manner
e.g. why should we pray facing only one specific side when God is everywhere ?

muhsin:

Although I'm stiffly afraid you may mis-comprehend what I got to say regarding this, I'll say it.
You sound like an unrepentant atheist there. Islam, like any other "religions", heavily gets a lot to do with dogmatism. I'm not saying, in any way, there's no wisdom in any set down dos and donts in Islam (or generally religions), but if thats what you adherently want to see, understand and believe then better renounce your faith. And there's absolutely none you'll ever embrace in.

No problems , say it as you feel.

No I’m not an atheist. I actually belong to the most conservative aspects of Christianity, however I have come to realise all faiths (NOT RELIGIONS) generally share a strong belief in the  Almighty .

Religion is all about don’t do this, do that . . . Christians are this, Muslims worship idols inside the Ka’abba, the moon gods etc.

So anything I post is all in my attempt to learn more about Islam and muslims and not go with stereotypes.

muhsin:

And regarding taking things in context is what many non-Muslims (and very sadly and unfortunately even some Muslims) do to justify killing in the Qur'an or other snooty actions. More-over, some Muslims too do so to back up their pedestrian understanding of the Bible. I know. So, unless and until we distant ourselves to doing so we'd better forget understanding one another.

This is precisely my point. There is indeed a difference between RELIGION and FAITH (or spirituality).

The fact remains that we can justify ANYTHING from our Holy books in the name of religion. The holy books comprise Historical aspects, Poetic aspects, Moral aspects, traditions and cultures as well.

So anyone can pick up anything to justify whatever they want. Imagine someone who believes 72 virgins are waiting for him in paradise when he blows himself up. Has anyone given any thought to how he will sleep with these virgins? Will God recreate his manhood in heaven??

So thats how it goes. . . .

muhsin:

Lastly, got an example to set: is there a wisdom in carrying an ordinary wooden/metal cross and say it's there to protect its holder? What's protective in it?

A
nother good example of Religion and not spirituality.

illusion2:

And when did you become the Divine interpreter? How are  you to know exactly what Allah was referring to ?

I'm not any body like a Divine Interpreter. But I AM a Muslim; in fact a student of Islamic studies, though not in any formal school setting. Additionally I always attend tafseer, Qur'anic interpretation done by many Islamic scholars here and there, every time. Considering these fact and more you ought not to be surprised if I tell thats what so so verses mean. I at least learn from there. You? I only know the likes of you attend Sunday service. Any way I don't know if nowadays Sunday services include Qur'an interpretation.

Can you explain how God can be Omnipresent in a simple rational, scientific manner? I guess not.
How can One God read the thoughts of over 6 billion human beings at the same time??
The point I’m trying to make my friend is that we should not try to explain God with our rational, objective mind. And that’s why I gave the illustration as 3 in 1 is not the same scientific or mathematical 2+1.

That's the facade you hide behind. We all know that God, as Supreme Being, is above any description. But to say he's 3 in 1 is the highest illogical thought human ever came to believe. The God himself mentions it numerously that He's but One and Only! Why then dispute that? Come on, dud.

Now the issue of Jesus Christ being the only begotten son of God is an issue with muslims,which is fine. Just as a lot of what we both believe cannot be reasonably explained in a scientific rational manner
e.g. why should we pray facing only one specific side when God is everywhere ?

We are effectively saying the same thing, I am afraid. Although you, at the same time, are saying a little contrary.

No problems , say it as you feel.

I've already done that.

No I’m not an atheist. I actually belong to the most conservative aspects of Christianity, however I have come to realise all faiths (NOT RELIGIONS) generally share a strong belief in the  Almighty.

But you people add more, though wrongly, to just believing in the Almighty. You say He has son; some say He gets wife; and a another being called Holy Spirit. We, Muslim, believe in serving alone, as He wants and orders his created servants to.

Religion is all about don’t do this, do that . . . Christians are this, Muslims worship idols inside the Ka’abba, the moon gods etc.

Eh? Yah religion is all about that. But your mentioning that Muslims worship idols. . . I don't get it.

So anything I post is all in my attempt to learn more about Islam and muslims and not go with stereotypes.

I wish you all the best in doing that. Hope your quest will be worthwhile and profitable.

This is precisely my point. There is indeed a difference between RELIGION and FAITH (or spirituality).

The fact remains that we can justify ANYTHING from our Holy books in the name of religion. The holy books comprise Historical aspects, Poetic aspects, Moral aspects, traditions and cultures as well.

So anyone can pick up anything to justify whatever they want. Imagine someone who believes 72 virgins are waiting for him in paradise when he blows himself up. Has anyone given any thought to how he will sleep with these virgins? Will God recreate his manhood in heaven??

So thats how it goes. . . .
A
nother good example of Religion and not spirituality.

You too say it. You can say that in a louder voice.

I shall comment on the other issue, insha-Allah, when I get back later.

^^^ I can sense your temprature rising. , my friend take it easy.

If you can't handle such stuff please let me know

@Illusion,issh,hes not your friend pls

illusion2:

or women shaving pubic hair (one of my main concerns with Islam ).

Dirty boy . . . lol!

illusion2:

^^^ I can sense your temprature rising. , my friend take it easy.

If you can't handle such stuff please let me know

I have had handled hotter topics in the past; and am ready to handle more now. It's just I lack enough time at my disposal plus one more problem, i.e. have problem with my system's charger.

uplawal:

@Illusion,issh,hes not your friend pls

Tell him the truth.

hymen:

Dirty boy . . . lol!

seconded lols

Anyway , Long time u ve been away from the thread , hope everything is cool with you and I hope you are benefiting from the thread and have a better understanding of islam.

@IFY

How are you finding the books you are reading , behind the veil and the other one , i hope it is an interesting read.

Let us know the final names u give them but in the mean time i will call you Umm AR². I guess you know what it means

@Illusion

Let us leave this issue for the time being because i am sure you know the very first doctrine in islam is the Oness of God and if your innermost heart would agree the quran would not then say otherwise and propose trinity when Allah said it clear and consise in Q5v 73 Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.

Also in Q 4 v 71 O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

I hope reading this 2 verses would lay this issue to a rest inshallah. You could believe in trinity but you cannot justify trinity using the quran NEVER !!!

And God Knows best

Lagosboy:

@IFY

How are you finding the books you are reading , behind the veil and the other one , i hope it is an interesting read.

Let us know the final names u give them but in the mean time i will call you Umm AR². I guess you know what it means

Im currently enjoying the "ideal Muslimah" and i love this excerpts so much:

The Prophet (PBUH) also referred to this responsibility in his hadith: “Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock. The leader is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock; a man is the shepherd of his family and is responsible for his flock; a woman is the shepherd in the house of her husband and is responsible for her flock; a servant is the shepherd of his master’s wealth and is responsible for it. Each of you is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock.”
. . . Abt the names,wahala owa oh,we are yet to decide,grannie is even suggesting Jawal and Jamal.
I love the latter one,for obvious reasons

THE UNITY, SINCERITY, ONENESS OF GOD, CHAPTER NO. 11

01. Say: He is God, the One and Only;

02. God, the Eternal, Absolute;

03. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten;

04. And there is none like unto Him.

Lagosboy:

seconded lols

Anyway , Long time u ve been away from the thread , hope everything is cool with you and I hope you are benefiting from the thread and have a better understanding of islam.

Don't mind him. I'm fine. Yes I am learning,thanks .

ifyalways:

Im currently enjoying the "ideal Muslimah" and i love this excerpts so much:

The Prophet (PBUH) also referred to this responsibility in his hadith: “Each of you is a shepherd and each of you is responsible for his flock. The leader is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock; a man is the shepherd of his family and is responsible for his flock; a woman is the shepherd in the house of her husband and is responsible for her flock; a servant is the shepherd of his master’s wealth and is responsible for it. Each of you is a shepherd and is responsible for his flock.”
. . . Abt the names,wahala owa oh,we are yet to decide,grannie is even suggesting Jawal and Jamal.
I love the latter one,for obvious reasons

Aww the hadith is a wonderful and beautiful hadith which explains the organisational structure of a society in one sentence. From the leadership of a state to the leadership of a home to the leadershup responsisbility of even a servant. If everyone understands the weightiness of this hadith and responsibility the world would indeed be a wonderful place to live in. Nigerian leaders at every level from companies to govt to husbands would never abandon their people to enrich themselves. I could go on and on explaining thishadith and scholars can write pages and pages on this one hadith .

I am happy you got the book be sure you would learn a lot , after that book step further by reading the ideal muslim society by the same author. May Allah bless him.

The names are cool but i dont understand the meaning of jawal i would check though how about jemeel and jamal lols

hymen:

Don't mind him. I'm fine. Yes I am learning,thanks .

Good to know your fine and learning here. Please feel free to clarify issues you dont understand and queries you might have. May God guide us all.

Lagosboy:

@Illusion

Let us leave this issue for the time being because i am sure you know the very first doctrine in islam is the Oness of God and if your innermost heart would agree the quran would not then say otherwise and propose trinity when Allah said it clear and consise in Q5v 73 Surely, disbelievers are those who said: "Allâh is the third of the three (in a Trinity)." But there is no ilâh (god) (none who has the right to be worshipped) but One Ilâh (God -Allâh). And if they cease not from what they say, verily, a painful torment will befall the disbelievers among them.

Also in Q 4 v 71 O people of the Scripture (Jews and Christians)! Do not exceed the limits in your religion, nor say of Allâh aught but the truth. The Messiah 'Iesa (Jesus), son of Maryam (Mary), was (no more than) a Messenger of Allâh and His Word, ("Be!" - and he was) which He bestowed on Maryam (Mary) and a spirit (Rûh) created by Him; so believe in Allâh and His Messengers. Say not: "Three (trinity)!" Cease! (it is) better for you. For Allâh is (the only) One Ilâh (God), Glory be to Him (Far Exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belongs all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allâh is All­Sufficient as a Disposer of affairs.

I hope reading this 2 verses would lay this issue to a rest inshallah. You could believe in trinity but you cannot justify trinity using the quran NEVER !!!

And God Knows best

This is precisely my point on the Holy prophet Mohammed (pbuh) and the political side of his ministry on earth.

The fact remains that he had the benefit of reading and observing the Christian and Jewish beliefs and Holy Books (I personally believe he was initially a catholic because of his first wife Khadija - a confirmed catholic)

Lets just say for argument sake ,God wanted to correct the 'false' teaching of the Trinity (we have christians who do not believe in the Trinity by the way -they are called Unitarians),now tell me,how is it possible that God Almighty could have sent the Holy prophet (pbuh) to 'correct' the errors in christianity and muslims believe the same ALMIGHTY GOD  cannot correct the Holy prophet after he has passed on ?

I'm linking this to the story of the Ahmadis. How do you on one hand claim the holy prophet has come to correct the error in christianity but it ends there?
http://www.alislam.org/

Christians believe we have come to correct(or perfect) the Jews,the muslims believe they have come to correct christians & the Ahmadis have come to correct mainstream Islam.

And Illusion2 has finally come to correct the Ahmadis