Seun:

So there is no single Christian on earth who truly believes that God can destroy ISIS in a blink of an eye or at least within a few days? Come on!


If an almighty God exists, and he wants to end the world, he can just say to the world, "end!" He wouldn't need ISIS to help him end the world.

I fear that we're going off the topic. It's clear that faith has nothing to do with healing. It's wicked to blame unlucky people for their misfortunes.

Mr seun did you even belief there are Spirits?

Setaje:
This same God healed someone I no of cancer wiv out even taking drugs or chemotherapy. This same God healed someone that had issue of blood for 5 years. Yes the person bled for five years. Wore pad everyday. I just laugh at you people. For as many unanswered prayers you no, there are many answered prayers to counter it. Whether you believe or not, I am a living testimony.

There are stories of people praying to the Christian God and being healed.

There are stories of people praying to non-Christian gods and being healed.

There are stories of people praying to no gods and being healed.

There are stories of members of all three categories who are not healed.

How do we figure out if anything is going on except confirmation bias? We find people who are sick, we have some prayed for and some not, and we see if there is a different recovery rate. The Templeton Foundation - a group inclined to believe that prayer is effective - ran exactly that experiment and found no difference.

I can go on a limb and say You don't have millions of answered prayers; you have millions of people who're determined to believe that their prayers were answered. Big difference.

Great, I like to also see a thread highlighting instances where prayer worked or a miracle was worked.

prayers have been working for me.

One day the Messenger of Allah (saws) noticed a bedouin (desert Arab) leaving his camel without tying it and he asked the bedouin: "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The bedouin answered, "I put my trust in Allah." The Prophet (saws) then said, "Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah"

Related by At-Tirmidhi.

..

CatfishBilly:
The 3rd case or group of cases that I want to share.

I worked in a HIV/AIDS unit directly for 3 months and indirectly for another 3 months..

The patients come in, are diagnosed and are placed on Highly Active Anti Retroviral Drugs.

Then we noticed a pattern amongst a sizable number of patients. They start therapy, their CD4 cell count starts improving, the future looks bright, then suddenly, their CD4 cell count starts dropping and they begin to get really sick, they get admitted as Stage 4 patients and they die. We started asking questions around and it turns out that their Pastors and popular Men of God have told them that they are healed and that they should stop taking their medications, so, they believe and stop taking their drugs, then they deteriorate and die. I don't have any yardstick to measure faith, but their faith is definitely bigger than a mustard seed.

It was a running problem, it got so bad that before we start any patient on HAART, we'll counsel them about their Pastors, that if any Pastor tells them to stop taking medication that they are healed, that the should report to the hospital first before stopping. We'll invite them to go to the wards to see the state of those who have Stage 4 AIDS.

I've never seen as much faith in any group of patients as those who have HIV, they always want to pray, especially in the midnight, one of their drugs is very sedating, so they always come to complain that they can't pray in the night because of that particular medication and ask us to change it to enable them pray.

With all their faith and the works backing their faith, they still don't get healed or die from the ailment, which baffles me cos it's written that with faith, we can move mountains.

Next Case

it shouldn't baffle you, its call gullibility and stupidity of the highest order.

CatfishBilly:
The first case really shook my faith and set me towards the path that I'm on right now.

A baby boy was brought, not up to one year old, unconscious. He had cerebral malaria and overwhelming sepsis. His case was a bad one. We admitted and started therapy.

He got better slightly, then, one day, he just got worse. This was the only child of the parents. His mother prayed from the afternoon non stop. Towards the evening, she was so weak she couldn't stand or talk, another mother in the ward had to come and help her with her prayers. She prayed till 9pm when the baby died. This was after approximately 8 hours of non stop praying. This really shook me. I asked myself, what kind of creator would watch his creation pray to him for that long with just one prayer request and refuse to grant it.

That was the beginning of my journey.

Interesting.

Death is one of the most dreaded thing. It creates a real vacuum in people life and has someone who recently lost a loved one I can understand the feeling of the poor woman. But I cannot understand your own journey.

For a Christian to die is a gain. The Christian views death from two perspective. Firstly from his/own perspective and secondly from the perspective of God/the deceased saint.

The mother certainly does not want her child to die nor did I want my loved one who recently passed away to die. I would do anything possible to save her life if I could. The one who had lost a loved one is often devastated. It's a real feeling and beyond feeling a reality.

But the one who is deceased has gone home - being welcomed into paradise (a better place than here). God in His sovereignty has welcomed the child - freed him from his pain and the stress of this world.

We are often selfish in our request. We only want to have our loved ones to ourselves but we rarely ask ourselves if our loved ones who had passed away really want to come back to this miserable world?

I think OP's one sided view of death has set him on a path of destruction (forgive my use of word). Death is not a end in itself because we (saints) know that all our brethren who had gone will return and together we shall have an incorruptible body - never to die again. Hallelujah!

OP are you more compassionate than God? Do you love humanity than it's creator?

Lagusta:


prayers have not, and will never work....

its only evidence based medicine that works....

prayer can never miraculously cure cancer, or diabetes, or HIV, or sickle cell disease....

let me narrate my own story

I thought you were a muslim, or do Muslims not believe in miracles.

I had to itch my fingers but forced to reply

The BIBLE says ..... be it done to yo according to your faith

There are people who had prayed and God had healed them....

CHRISTIANS listen and listen well

PRAYERS WILL DO A PART WHILE MEDICINE WILL DO ITS OWN PART

It is God's infinitesimal wisdom that provided Medicine......

Isaiah 38:21 - For Isaiah had said, Let them take a lump of figs, and lay [it] for a plaister upon the boil, and he shall recover.

Genesis 1:29-31 - And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which [is] upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which [is] the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.

Ezekiel 47:12 - And by the river upon the bank thereof, on this side and on that side, shall grow all trees for meat, whose leaf shall not fade, neither shall the fruit thereof be consumed: it shall bring forth new fruit according to his months, because their waters they issued out of the sanctuary: and the fruit thereof shall be for meat, and the leaf thereof for medicine.


Hope i have answered ya question Catfishbilly

CatfishBilly:
The 5th case.

This one happened to a senior colleague, who told us about it.

A Bank manager, well educated and rich, she got pregnant and went to see her MOG. He prophesies to her that her enemies have ganged up against her to make sure that herself and the baby won't survive the pregnancy. So it was agreed that she'll have her baby in the church in the midst of fervent prayers, so that the plans of the enemies won't come to pass. Labour started and she went to the church, where she was in labour for 2 days in the midst of fervent prayers. When the MOG saw that the case was getting out of hand, they took her to the hospital where it was found out that she had obstructed labour and that the baby was already dead inside the womb, so an emergency CS was carried out and because she was already weak from being in labour for 2 whole days, she died.

The man of God now declared that his prophecy has come to pass and that her enemies succeeded.

Which got me really angry with the Pastor because, he obviously killed the mother and the baby.

But how can a creator watch his creations pray to him for 2 whole days and refuse to answer their prayers?

Next Case (6)

what can i say, the evil MOG was the enemy. and he has achieved his aim.

the woman was gullible n foolish as many folks who dont think for themselves but rely on con men in guise of MOG to do it for them.

God cannot be mocked nor tempted.

hopefulLandlord:


There are stories of people praying to the Christian God and being healed.

There are stories of people praying to non-Christian gods and being healed.

There are stories of people praying to no gods and being healed.

There are stories of members of all three categories who are not healed.

How do we figure out if anything is going on except confirmation bias? We find people who are sick, we have some prayed for and some not, and we see if there is a different recovery rate. The Templeton Foundation - a group inclined to believe that prayer is effective - ran exactly that experiment and found no difference.

I can go on a limb and say You don't have millions of answered prayers; you have millions of people who're determined to believe that their prayers were answered. Big difference.

So in other words. It's not God doing it, it's determination? . Oga live me abeg!!!! Hehehhehehhehe

peacesamuel94:



what I meant was that according to the bible, the requirement prayer needs to guarantee answers is Faith. So Prayer doesn't get answered in every case, because not everyone who "appears" to have faith really does.

peacesamuel94:



According to the Bible, Faith is not just a requirement, it is also in levels, it is possible, someone that has faith have prayed for the Annihilation of ISIS, but it is unlikely for Him/her to possess the degree of faith to make it come to pass.


However there are things that must happen as confirmation that the world is near its end. Maybe ISIS Is just one of them, and if it is, no amount of prayer can change it.

First you need faith. Then you need "levels" of faith. But at the same time you only need a mustard seed-size of faith... *smh*

Just look at yourself and your hapless argument.

Omoluabi16:
Failed prayers? I dey laugh. You atheists wake up each day and reassure yourself there is no God. It's really an obsession for you lot. The basis of Christian faith is the bible, and I'd have given you numerous reasons why such bad things may happen even to the very elect. But I know you'll dismiss the bible and some may use it as an opportunity to insult Christianity like it is done here everyday. You didn't give us instances of when prayer worked in your hospital? yes, that was your own doing docta.

To them, prayer fails, but inside them there are cases of miracle that they will never share here

It's A touching story. However if you're truly a Christian then you'd know that whatever happens He remains sovereign. Now it's God bad for not answering our prayers think deep about this, He's a fair judge even Jesus prayed and didn't get a response you see everything is for his glory your existence is for His glory. Then you must say that's selfish of Him but He's your creator don't he deserve all right but yet He gives you choices. Don't look at things at face value? Do you know if the couple have twins next or they adopt a child that becomes someone that turns their life around. Most times it always seems as though the devil has won same thing when Jesus died. But we know it ended keep hope alive Jesus he cares and the last thing he wants to see is zigs children cry

Lagusta:


you are the liar here.....

I am a doctor, and from all my years of schooling and practice, i find VERY FEW doctors that are very religious... most of them are either moderates, liberals, agnostic or atheists.... the majority being liberals like me...

Big lie. I went through the college of medicine too.
Nccmds and others are proofs. Doctors believe in God than you can imagine. If you don't, don't generalize it

Setaje:
So in other words. It's not God doing it, it's determination? . Oga live me abeg!!!! Hehehhehehhehe

nah, what I mean is that people that have received healing are the ones determined to pin responsibility for the healing on their version of god

Mr A serves Yahweh, he has severe cough for 2 years, wakes up this morning and its gone; he quickly tells everyone that its Yahweh that did it and that his "Prayers have been answered"

Mr B serves Obatala he has severe cough for 2 years, wakes up this morning and its gone; he quickly tells everyone that its Obatala that did it and that his "Prayers have been answered"

Mr C serves Allah he has severe cough for 2 years, wakes up this morning and its gone; he quickly tells everyone that its Allah that did it and that his "Prayers have been answered"


comprehend?

akintom:
Embarrassed for Jesus

I once had to sort out the rehabilitation of a stroke client, who is a vice president of an international church, with headquarters in Nigeria.

Most of my sessions with him was focused more, on how i can help him out of the depression that got him. He was thoroughly disillusioned, can't understand why a pastor at his level of "anointing", could be down with stroke.

And when he even recovered to the level that he could resume his duties, he still will not resume. His reason was how to cope with the "embarrassing" looks of his members.

Most of the religious folks who came down with complications of DM and HTN, had thrown away their medications, because their pastors instructed them so.

The ignorance of the religious folks, is one of the grave challenges, that faces effective health management in Nigeria today.

Next Story

Bros, its worse than that. It is an absolute nightmare.

While still in naija, I had one that broke my faith then. It took to years to find it again.
The sad Child had to be amputated. It still hurts to remember it cos I was the person who handled the case and also the person who had to take off the childs leg. All the preaching I did to the parents, threats and even begging didn't work. I mean, how can ur child have epilepsy and ur pastor says its demon possession and then u burn his legs with charcoal then start praying for the legs to somehow miraculously heal back. I mean what level of ignorance is that? The hospital had the pastor arrested for assault though and I went in myself to question my faith.

winner01:
It is not the task of Christianity to provide easy answers to every question, but to make us progressively aware of a mystery.
God is not so much the object of our knowledge as the cause of our wonder.

Those questions no matter how touching constantly reminds us that nowhere in God's word was man or christians promised a life free of pain. Nowhere in God's word was man promised the answers to all his questions.

God is and forever will be. We were created with limits and it's why we will forever wonder.

You just nailed it Bro......
I keep praying everyday never to be in a condition that will make me doubt the existence of God.
He exists and will always be; the fact that you could not get what you pray for does not guarantee the inexistence of God.

DeSepiero:
If there's a God, it wouldn't require prayers to do what's needful.

Very intelligent observation. Human beings are sanctioned to take care of their children. When it comes to the so called creator god it's different. We have to pray and when he answers he chooses whom to answer according to 'Grace'. Nonsense.

Ah. this thread made frontpage.

peacesamuel94:



I thought you were a muslim, or do Muslims not believe in miracles.

oga the era of miracles don pass, no be now abeg

the only time i would believe in miracles is if all the "men of God" especially TB joshua, david oyedepo, enoch adeboye and chris oyakhilome come together to heal the blind, deaf and lame at agege railway.....

Too many times, I have seen miracles happen. If it's not your time to die, it's not your time. Another thing is never compare yourself to anybody or tap from the blessings of anybody. You never truly know the story of anybody that dies. Whether a small child or an adult. I was almost thinking this way when pastor bimbo odukoya died. I couldn't just understand why but now I know better.

For the believers, never stop praying for your foundation.

avaa:


These guys will type anything just to defend their god.
Last month, my mom's pastor came to our place, he met me down with the flu and decided to pray for me. I just couldn't contain the amazement. This is a man who recently came back from Kaduna where his eyes were operated on. The irony.

Hahahahahaha the pastor wants to test his miracle magic on u. He should have prayed for himself wether he won't go blind

peacesamuel94:



According to the Bible, Faith is not just a requirement, it is also in levels, it is possible, someone that has faith have prayed for the Annihilation of ISIS, but it is unlikely for Him/her to possess the degree of faith to make it come to pass.


However there are things that must happen as confirmation that the world is near its end. Maybe ISIS Is just one of them, and if it is, no amount of prayer can change it.

You mean non has faith the size of a mustard seed according to Mathew 17:20?

Omoluabi16:
Failed prayers? I dey laugh. You atheists wake up each day and reassure yourself there is no God. It's really an obsession for you lot. The basis of Christian faith is the bible, and I'd have given you numerous reasons why such bad things may happen even to the very elect. But I know you'll dismiss the bible and some may use it as an opportunity to insult Christianity like it is done here everyday. You didn't give us instances of when prayer worked in your hospital? yes, that was your own doing docta.

U miss the point here. No one says there is no God here, what they say is something else entirely

Mumu OP doctor,
did it occur to you that if all sick people's prayers were answered, you will have no livelihood? Even the bible records that in His hometown, Jesus could not do any mighty work there because of the unbelief of the people.

I am a personal testimony that prayer and healing are as real as it gets. I will not share my story here, but my experience is enough to confirm that prayer works, and healing is also available. Yes, mine took time to get, but I got it eventually.

Besides, are you aware that many Eastern religions also heal people? Read Yonggi Cho's Book on "The Fourth Dimension". You will understand these things better.

drnoel:



Bros, its worse than that. It is an absolute nightmare.

While still in naija, I had one that broke my faith then. It took to years to find it again.
The sad Child had to be amputated. It still hurts to remember it cos I was the person who handled the case and also the person who had to take off the childs leg. All the preaching I did to the patents, threats and even begging didn't work. I mean, how can ur child have epilepsy and ur pastor says its demon possession and then u burn his legs with charcoal then start praying for the legs to somehow miraculously heal back. I mean what level of ignorance is that? The hospital had the pastor arrested for assault though and I went in myself to question my faith.

that is because you worshipped your pastor and not God.....

Christians will give the expected defense... "faith is in levels", "mountains of different sizes", "faith not strong enough", "God knows best", "don't tempt God", "level of anointing varies". Absolutely ridiculous excuses!

The fact remains that Prayer does not work.

Setaje:
Too many times, I have seen miracles happen.

Actually, I don't think you are lying. I truly think you believe every thing that you are stating. The fact that a traveling Bedouin sees a mirage in the middle of the Sahara (and believes it) doesn't mean there is indeed a lake there.

The fact that a schizophrenic person sees objects (and believes it) does not mean that the objects are truly there.


think about it

drnoel:


U miss the point here. No one says there is no God here, what they say is something else entirely

I miss nothing here brother, the very essence of this thread is to dispute God's existence.

akintom:
can you put forward here, just ONE instance that prayer changed a thing?

https://www.nairaland.com/3568083/believe-miracles

Check the above link.