hopefulLandlord:


nah, what I mean is that people that have received healing are the ones determined to pin responsibility for the healing on their version of god

Mr A serves Yahweh, he has severe cough for 2 years, wakes up this morning and its gone; he quickly tells everyone that its Yahweh that did it and that his "Prayers have been answered"

Mr B serves Obatala he has severe cough for 2 years, wakes up this morning and its gone; he quickly tells everyone that its Obatala that did it and that his "Prayers have been answered"

Mr C serves Allah he has severe cough for 2 years, wakes up this morning and its gone; he quickly tells everyone that its Allah that did it and that his "Prayers have been answered"


comprehend?

OK I get now. But what do u think they should say. That it just so happens that the cough left.

Omoluabi16:
I miss nothing here brother, the very essence of this thread is to dispute God's existence.

stop pulling straws and red herrings bro

this thread is about the efficacy of prayer and its obvious that prayer is extremely useless

EmDeko:
What is the point of prayers when you don't know God's divine plan or purpose?

But that's the reason to pray

akintom:
Embarrassed for Jesus

I once had to sort out the rehabilitation of a stroke client, who is a vice president of an international church, with headquarters in Nigeria.

Most of my sessions with him was focused more, on how i can help him out of the depression that got him. He was thoroughly disillusioned, can't understand why a pastor at his level of "anointing", could be down with stroke.

And when he even recovered to the level that he could resume his duties, he still will not resume. His reason was how to cope with the "embarrassing" looks of his members.

Most of the religious folks who came down with complications of DM and HTN, had thrown away their medications, because their pastors instructed them so.

The ignorance of the religious folks, is one of the grave challenges, that faces effective health management in Nigeria today.

Next Story

The mistake I have observed is that of people like this vice minister or whatever believing that their titles entitles them to anything in Christ. ..... it is your walk with Christ that determines what you manifest. If all the while you have not built your faith on healing you can have it on the day of battle.......you don't prepare on the d day you do your prepaprstion before the day.


You must grow you faith on a particular issue before you prayer for the hand of God on that subject ...........for instance , some people speak in tongues without power delivery because they have not understood what it means to speak in tongue.

The Orthodox Church has not been effective in inculcating the power dimension of the scripture to their folks and in times of crisis , they praye because the Bible says we know how to pray but don't know what we ought to prayer for as we ought to

ApostleT:


Interesting.

Death is one of the most dreaded thing. It creates a real vacuum in people life and has someone who recently lost a loved one I can understand the feeling of the poor woman. But I cannot understand your own journey.

For a Christian to die is a gain. The Christian views death from two perspective. Firstly from his/own perspective and secondly from the perspective of God/the deceased saint.

The mother certainly does not want her child to die nor did I want my loved one who recently passed away to die. I would do anything possible to save her life if I could. The one who had lost a loved one is often devastated. It's a real feeling and beyond feeling a reality.

But the one who is deceased has gone home - being welcomed into paradise (a better place than here). God in His sovereignty has welcomed the child - freed him from his pain and the stress of this world.

We are often selfish in our request. We only want to have our loved ones to ourselves but we rarely ask ourselves if our loved ones who had passed away really want to come back to this miserable world?

I think OP's one sided view of death has set him on a path of destruction (forgive my use of word). Death is not a end in itself because we (saints) know that all our brethren who had gone will return and together we shall have an incorruptible body - never to die again. Hallelujah!

OP are you more compassionate than God? Do you love humanity than it's creator?

but the question is - must you get killed or kill an innocent child, because of the illusion of prayer that changes nothing?

In the event that you complicate your health conditions, because you relied on prayer, instead of Medicare, you burden your relatives who have their lives to live. That's act of willful wickedness.

In the event that you get killed because you chose to drink olive oil, instead of medications. You then live behind wife and children who will suffer, because a deluded father messed them up.

In

kay9:


First you need faith. Then you need "levels" of faith. But at the same time you only need a mustard seed-size of faith... *smh*

Just look at yourself and your hapless argument.

.



We do not only need the mustard seed size of faith, the disciples had that kind of faith when they tried to heal the child who was sick of an ailment but couldn't,.


Like I said before the mustard seed kind of faith can move mountains, however mountains are in sizes.

Three set of people on the view of prayers
First set: strong adherents that prayers is the key to reaching a Divine personality
Second set: carefree people who believe you pray because it makes u religious and not necessarily potent as the first believes it to be.
Third set: those that strongly insist that prayer is nothing but empty words from deluded persons.


Whichever school of thought you belong to, what happens after death will cclarify, just stay safe till you die

samdavjustin:

Hahahahahaha the pastor wants to test his miracle magic on u. He should have prayed for himself wether he won't go blind

The thing vex me jare. He later asked me when I was coming back to his church (my old church), I told him squarely I don't do church again. He couldn't contain the surprise (cus I was a pastor then). He told me we'd meet later to talk, for my mind I be like "when I finish with this man, him go troway him bible."

hopefulLandlord:


stop pulling straws and red herrings bro

this thread is about the efficacy of prayer and its obvious that prayer is extremely useless

your opinion sir.

Rett0:


Big lie. I went through the college of medicine too.
Nccmds and others are proofs. Doctors believe in God than you can imagine. If you don't, don't generalize it

you are funny, in fact very very funny....

first, its not NCCMDS anymore but CMDA-students

secondly, go back and check all those prayer warriors, 90% dont hold on to biblical teachings any longer....

This is a fact, because i had alot of friends in christian fellowships, most of them have either lost faith or just hold on for faith's sake...

Even in MSSN, the muslim society, alot of brothers shaved off their beards, sisters stopped wearing jilbabs when they found no one to marry them....

So what are you saying baba

hopefulLandlord:


Actually, I don't think you are lying. I truly think you believe every thing that you are stating. The fact that a traveling Bedouin sees a mirage in the middle of the Sahara (and believes it) doesn't mean there is indeed a lake there.

The fact that a schizophrenic person sees objects (and believes it) does not mean that the objects are truly there.


think about it

Oga I studied Psychology and I no where you are going. I am neither schizophrenic nor bedouin. You can make you points wiv out sounding sarcastic.

CatfishBilly:
The 5th case.

This one happened to a senior colleague, who told us about it.

A Bank manager, well educated and rich, she got pregnant and went to see her MOG. He prophesies to her that her enemies have ganged up against her to make sure that herself and the baby won't survive the pregnancy. So it was agreed that she'll have her baby in the church in the midst of fervent prayers, so that the plans of the enemies won't come to pass. Labour started and she went to the church, where she was in labour for 2 days in the midst of fervent prayers. When the MOG saw that the case was getting out of hand, they took her to the hospital where it was found out that she had obstructed labour and that the baby was already dead inside the womb, so an emergency CS was carried out and because she was already weak from being in labour for 2 whole days, she died.

The man of God now declared that his prophecy has come to pass and that her enemies succeeded.

Which got me really angry with the Pastor because, he obviously killed the mother and the baby.

But how can a creator watch his creations pray to him for 2 whole days and refuse to answer their prayers?

Next Case (6)

We would have had that pastor arrested

Yes prayer changes alot of situations and it makes great impact and difference. It was in my case wen i was very sick in my adolescent time. I was injected wrongly n bcame parralysed. I was booked 4 opperation due to my heavy swolen bottock, but instead d doctor postponed d opperation because he observed dat swelling was still full of blood n has not yet turned purse. And i was in constant serious pain, I cant seat nor sleep. I missed a term plus in sch. But dat day dat d doctor told us to go back home, my parents prayed fervently in d mid night because they cannot bear d pains i wea going through. Lo and behold dat night d pain dissapeared n d swelling started going down gradually untill my led returned to d normal size as d other. No more hospital no more opperation. My dear pple, GOD answers prayers till 2day.

akintom:
can you put forward here, just ONE instance that prayer changed a thing?

Setaje:



OK I get now. But what do u think they should say. That it just so happens that the cough left.

you wanna know what a real miracle and test of prayer and faith really is?

let's get an amputee, gather all popes, bishops, pastors, apostles to pray for the leg to grow back


there's a reason our churches send Instant noodles, Spaghetti, Cocoa Beverages to orthopaedic hospitals

if an amputee comes to their crusade they won't even bother paying any attention to them because they know nothing would happen, why is that so impossible for prayer to do?

We can spend all year discussing this fraud called church miracles but I will make it simple.
In what situation does one need God's intervention and a miracle?

Definitely in situations where man is helpless.
Do I need prayers to get a wife? NO

Do I need a miracle to get a Job? NO

A Real need of miracle is to see amputated limbs grow not headaches cured.

A real need of a miracle is to demand a beheaded man be resurrected not someone in coma coming back from coma.

Why are people praising God? Where is the miracle?

With millions people who get one part or the other amputated every year, why is it that we don't see at least ONE just ONE amputee 's limbs growing back just once in 10years?

But every sunday around the world hundreds of millions of christians are sharing testimonies of God's miracles Yet NOT ONE amputee even just once in 30 years!

Lagusta:


you are the liar here.....

I am a doctor, and from all my years of schooling and practice, i find VERY FEW doctors that are very religious... most of them are either moderates, liberals, agnostic or atheists.... the majority being liberals like me...

True and well said. The profession alone allows nothing else. Not when we see the kind of shit we have to.

Thanks for the post. Truely, all cases you posted may be true/false. But we'av heard serious cases like that. The Almighty God remains the Living, True & Everlasting God- Jer.10:10. The Holy Book confirms to us that this awesome God is Sovereign, He resides in Heaven & do as He pleases- Psalm 115:3. He is unquestionable. All His works are good not
Mr.doctor sir, let me ask you this do you want to tell us that since all these days, weeks, months & yearsyou have notbheard of God's wonders in your field?

Lagusta:
While i was in medical school, pediatrics department, a child was rushed into the emergency...

she was 7yrs, weak, breathing heavily, did not respond to stimulus or calls, "paper white" pale....

The registrar that saw sent for investigations, struggled to set up IVF (all veins had collapsed)....

when the senior registrar came in, he recognized her immediately

"anti, so you are back"

we were confused then, but after sometime the child started gasping, we tried resuscitating, CPR, AMBU bag, we did everything, but she died ultimately....

after all the wailing and grief counseling, the senior registrar told us the story of how the mother first came about 5yrs ago when he was just starting residency, the child was diagnosed sickle cell. The departmen managed her until after sometime when she absconded, child came back with so-called "malaria symptoms" but our oga asked why she absconded, she said she was taken to a pastor in a very popular church whwere she went through prayer and deliverance, and the genotype changed from SS to AA... she even brought the result done by one make shift lab (maybe affiliated to the church).

Anyway, post_mortem results showed the child was STILL SS, PCV was 8% (normal should be more than 35%, even some SCD have PCV of 23%) and had heavy malaria parasitemia (+++)

so what do we have to say about that??

Doctors in the house. Una too much. These pastors and churches will not get the better of us. Our intentions is to save life regardless of faith or denomination.

CatfishBilly:

Pastor Adeboye famously prayed and prophesied that Boko Haram would be crushed before the end of the year, that was at the peak of their powers. Last I heard, they carried out an attack last week. That's a General in God's army. His level of faith is unquestionable

Do you the extremity it'd have gone without the prayer?

avaa:


The thing vex me jare. He later asked me when I was coming back to his church (my old church), I told him squarely I don't do church again. He couldn't contain the surprise (cus I was a pastor then). He told me we'd meet later to talk, for my mind I be like "when I finish with this man, him go troway him bible."

I feel u bro it can really frustrating especially when your family is religious. My own case to go church every Sunday dey tire me I would rather sleep or watch movies. I just dey play along

Lagusta:


you are funny, in fact very very funny....

first, its not NCCMDS anymore but CMDA-students

secondly, go back and check all those prayer warriors, 90% dont hold on to biblical teachings any longer....

This is a fact, because i had alot of friends in christian fellowships, most of them have either lost faith or just hold on for faith's sake...

Even in MSSN, the muslim society, alot of brothers shaved off their beards, sisters stopped wearing jilbabs when they found no one to marry them....

So what are you saying baba

?

hopefulLandlord:


you wanna know what a real miracle and test of prayer and faith really is?

let's get an amputee, gather all popes, bishops, pastors, apostles to pray for the leg to grow back


there's a reason our churches send Instant noodles, Spaghetti, Cocoa Beverages to orthopaedic hospitals

if an amputee comes to their crusade they won't even bother paying any attention to them because they know nothing would happen, why is that so impossible for prayer to do?

We can spend all year discussing this fraud called church miracles but I will make it simple.
In what situation does one need God's intervention and a miracle?

Definitely in situations where man is helpless.
Do I need prayers to get a wife? NO

Do I need a miracle to get a Job? NO

A Real need of miracle is to see amputated limbs grow not headaches cured.

A real need of a miracle is to demand a beheaded man be resurrected not someone in coma coming back from coma.

Why are people praising God? Where is the miracle?

With millions people who get one part or the other amputated every year, why is it that we don't see at least ONE just ONE amputee 's limbs growing back just once in 10years?

But every sunday around the world hundreds of millions of christians are sharing testimonies of God's miracles Yet NOT ONE amputee even just once in 30 years!

You are mistaken magic for miracle. This same God created the earth for 7 days. He Followed an order.

Omoluabi16:
I miss nothing here brother, the very essence of this thread is to dispute God's existence.

Not true

Seun:
Following. Very informative.

And oga Seun was FTC

Michaelroyals:
Yes prayer changes alot of situations and it makes great impact and difference. It was in my case wen i was very sick in my adolescent time. I was injected wrongly n bcame parralysed. I was booked 4 opperation due to my heavy swolen bottock, but instead d doctor postponed d opperation because he observed dat swelling was still full of blood n has not yet turned purse. And i was in constant serious pain, I cant seat nor sleep. I missed a term plus in sch. But dat day dat d doctor told us to go back home, my parents prayed fervently in d mid night because they cannot bear d pains i wea going through. Lo and behold dat night d pain dissapeared n d swelling started going down gradually untill my led returned to d normal size as d other. No more hospital no more opperation. My dear pple, GOD answers prayers till 2day.

You're a joker. Your ignorance of the pathophysiology of what happened to you, made you hug the illusion of prayer.

Your abscess got ripened, gradually released the pus and your pain eased. You know why? The pain causing substances in your buttock got driven out with the release of the pus.

Again, Can you come up with something worth evidence, that prayer influenced?

It's not a hidden fact that Medical Doctors have a huge number of Atheists amongst them, I mean, they see how ineffective prayer is in the face of death on daily basis. When the Bible has already said that we should ask and we shall receive.

The hospital wards have heard more prayers than churches but still, patients still drop like flies.

I'll be using this thread to share stories of patients I've lost in the face of prayers and I encourage doctors and non doctors alike to come forth and share their stories.

Brother, I do not wish you to remain in the dark as long as you act out of ignorance. I put up this information not to argue, but to save the weak and potentially gullible. The reading below is for any human made in God's image, who is being manipulated and influenced by the means of the media to believe that THERE IS NO GOD. Note that God gives up people to a reprobate (stubbornly foolish) heart, who after having undeniable proofs of His existence chose to sell their souls to Satan by denying His existence and propagating such to sway others.

1 CORINTHIANS 1

18 For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness; but unto us which are saved it is the power of God.

19 For it is written, I will destroy the wisdom of the wise, and will bring to nothing the understanding of the prudent.

20 Where is the wise? where is the scribe? where is the disputer of this world? hath not God made foolish the wisdom of this world?

21 For after that in the wisdom of God the world by wisdom knew not God, it pleased God by the foolishness of preaching to save them that believe.

22 For the Jews require a sign, and the Greeks seek after wisdom:

23 But we preach Christ crucified, unto the Jews a stumblingblock, and unto the Greeks foolishness;

24 But unto them which are called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God, and the wisdom of God.

25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength.

26 Brothers and sisters, think of what you were when you were called. Not many of you were wise by human standards; not many were influential; not many were of noble birth. 27 But God chose the foolish things of the world to shame the wise; God chose the weak things of the world to shame the strong.

28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are,

29 That no flesh should glory in his presence.

ROMANS 1:

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel of Christ: for it is the power of God unto salvation to every one that believeth; to the Jew first, and also to the Greek.

17 For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who hold the truth in unrighteousness;

19 Because that which may be known of God is manifest in them; for God hath shewed it unto them.

[b]20 For the invisible things of him from the creation of the world are clearly seen, being understood by the things that are made, even his eternal power and Godhead; so that they are without excuse:

21 Because that, when they knew God, they glorified him not as God, neither were thankful; but became vain in their imaginations, and their foolish heart was darkened.

22 Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools,

[/b]23 And changed the glory of the uncorruptible God into an image made like to corruptible man, and to birds, and fourfooted beasts, and creeping things.

24 Wherefore God also gave them up to uncleanness through the lusts of their own hearts, to dishonour their own bodies between themselves:

25 Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen.

26 For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women did change the natural use into that which is against nature:

27 And likewise also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly, and receiving in themselves that recompence of their error which was meet.

28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient;

29 Being filled with all unrighteousness, fornication, wickedness, covetousness, maliciousness; full of envy, murder, debate, deceit, malignity; whisperers,

30 Backbiters, haters of God, despiteful, proud, boasters, inventors of evil things, disobedient to parents,

31 Without understanding, covenant breakers, without natural affection, implacable, unmerciful:

32 Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them.

Omudia:
Thrash! The same medical doctors who have seen the wonders of prayers? Like women without wombs giving birth? Lol

God bless u

Lagusta:


that is because you worshipped your pastor and not God.....

No vex, I never attended those ur mushroom churches. Faith is supposed to be inherent not a physical thing. That means logically anything that affects ur physic or way of thinking can affect ur faith too. Rest my case.

akintom:
but the question is - must you get killed or killed an innocent child, because of the illusion of prayer that changes nothing?

Prayer isn't an illusion it is a communication with God. Nigerians recently protest President Buhari's absence there was call that he should resign. That isn't illusion. Will he resign? That's up to him to decide. I use this example because Buhari is some sort of higher power in Nigeria.


You still don't understand death from a Christian perspective. I lost my wife at a very young age to something that could easily be cured medically but there was no symptom for us to know she was suffering with this condition until post-mortem showed the cause of death. Did we pray? yes we did, despite one of the best medical cares in the world, she was gone within an hour. It was like a system shutting down. It was like a massive heart attack and that's what everyone (- paramedics, air ambulance crew, etc) treated but it was just the symptom of the final stage.

Answers to prayer is not predetermined by the person praying, it is God who would either grant or reject a request. But whatever God decides to do. He's done it in the best interest of my late wife and his love for our family. It is painful and we miss her daily but then we know she's with the Lord - free from pain, stress and care of this world. And one day we shall meet again.

If you loose your faith because of your lack of understanding of prayers then you are quite foolish because death at whatever age is always painful to the family of the deceased. But our hope is not only in this world but in Christ and we can rejoice despite the pain.

Prayer work for me more than anything especially when I combine it with fasting, in uncountable times. It is a give to me that when ever I do fasting I will receive an answer. In fact 90% of my prayer and fasting are answered not exaggeration. I have noticed that even devil is aware of this great gift from God to me that he always try as much as he can to stop me from fasting whenever I face challenges. The problem is that I always fine it difficult to do fasting but whenever I make up my mind to fast I am always sure of a positive answer. My wife have noticed this gift that whenever we challenge he will be begging me to do fasting though it is not always easy for me but whenever I make up my mind I am always sure of answer and a direct answer not even an answer u will be contemplating weda na God do am.

The number of time I have fasted and receive an answer is uncountable. The funny this is that I am not the over holly type though everyday I strive to improve. I have received many direct answers that made my to share tears especially I noticed that I don't deserve it because I am not holy. Though I am not holy but I will never deny the existence of God. I will never the testimonies I have receive. I pray that if I will denny God 2moro may he take my life today.

Till today it still surprise me why God answers my prayer more than some of my church members who are more righteous than I am.

felixomor:
Big LIE


Doctors are the most religious among all groups of scientific cadres.

You are right on this.
When we had the ebola outbreak of 2014, I recall a doctor was one of those that called me and told me of the bathing with salt prevention strategy. So it shows doctors can be stvpid afterall