Mujtahida:

So God cares more about sin than about human beings. If as a father you told your child not to cross the road and the child in his stubbornness decided to do so would you - despite that you have all the power to save your child - allow the child to be killed just so that your other kids can learn a lesson or two about constituted authority. What would you think of a human being who places rules and regulations above human lives to the extent that he prefers for human beings to die than to have his rules broken? In any case all you just said above is your opinion, it's just you trying to rationalise a situation you have no real answer to. You do not know for a fact that what you have written above is the reality.

To summarize my previous post.

If God saved people who suffered because of sin, like say the church collapse in Uyo, which was due to negligence.....

It could lead to a world where people deliberately hurt and injure others and do that freely because God will step in and save them from the bad effects of their sin.

That would be one horrible world to live in. A world where people do bad things because God will save them from the effects of bad things.

I prefer this world.... where people learn from the disasters that sin creates, and take measures to prevent such disasters from happening. Like the Hillsborough stadium disaster in England in 1989....which led to improved safety measures that have ensured that such a disaster won't happen again (and Hillsborough was due to gross human negligence. 96 people died, but thanks to the horror of that disaster, changes to stadia safety in England were made).

9jakohai:


To summarize my previous post.

If God saved people who suffered because of sin, like say the church collapse in Uyo, which was due to negligence.....

It could lead to a world where people deliberately hurt and injure others and do that freely because God will step in and save them from the bad effects of their sin.

That would be one horrible world to live in. A world where people do bad things because God will save them from the effects of bad things.

I prefer this world.... where people learn from the disasters that sin creates, and take measures to prevent such disasters from happening. Like the Hillsborough stadium disaster in England in 1989....which led to improved safety measures that have ensured that such a disaster won't happen again (and Hillsborough was due to gross human negligence. 96 people died, but thanks to the horror of that disaster, changes to stadia safety in England were made).

In other words you agree that God cares more about his rules and regulations than human beings. Remember we are not talking about human disasters at large oo but in the church, as in his children. Was it his congregated children that failed to build properly? Do you know that many who died had absolutely no idea how the church was built? if you were to punish for negligence is it those who were not responsible for the negligence you would punish? Is that how you a human being will go about it? (remember that passage that says if you being wicked knows how to give good gifts to your children how much more the heavenly father.. .. ) The occurrence of devastating Natural disasters like hurricane Katrina, Tsunamis, etc makes your points baseless. So who is to blame for natural disasters?

9jakohai:



Yes, God cares more about sin, because sin destroys. Sin wrecks. Sin messes people up. And if sin ain't stopped, people would be destroyed by it.

One cannot live in a world without rules.

I am not rationalizing anything. I am saying that if God intervened and saved lives that would have been lost due to human negligence, people won't change. They would develop a sense of entitlement, that they can sin all day, and God will clean up after them.

And that isn't what God wants. God wants mature humans who are the horror of sin, and are willing to change as a result.

And yes, if I was a dad, I would save my child from being hit. Then again, my child might read of tales of people who got hurt crossing the road carelessly and take warning.

Seems You want a babysitter God. You don't want to change. You don't accept the cold reality of sin and it's destructive element. You want a god who saves lives, without changing them.

You Sir a human being is better than God cos you place the primacy of your child's life above his mistakes and above your rules and regulations. Remember we are talking about church congregants many of whom had absolutely nothing to do with the negligence you hammer so much on.
No. I don't want a baby sitter God. I want a God who speaks not through a book or through pastors. Finish!
Hebrews 8v 10-12
10This is the covenant I will establish with the people of Israel
after that time, declares the Lord.
I will put my laws in their minds
and write them on their hearts.
I will be their God,
and they will be my people.
11No longer will they teach their neighbor,
or say to one another, ‘Know the Lord,’
because they will all know me,
from the least of them to the greatest.
12For I will forgive their wickedness
and will remember their sins no more.”
When will this happen? are you guys not already in the new covenant? Cos if it happens who knows men will stop sinning or at least it would reduce because the commands of God will come directly to each man( that much is suggested by the last two verses of the quoted passage. People sin because there's no intimacy between them and God. Intimacy cannot be fostered through a book or through proxies (pastors, prophets)

9jakohai:


Right... he makes a good point.

OK... The problem with most Christians is that they think that becoming a Christian and following God means no more problems, no more issues. everything is OK.

Well, the early Christians did not have that luxury .A good number of them died for believing in God..... despite all the promises of blessings.

But why does God allow bad things happen to good people?

Recently on BBC, the daughter of a missionaries told her parents story. Her father was a missionary and a good man who died in the course of the job....killed by the idol worshippers he was trying to reach (no offense to my pagan brothers and sisters). What did his wife do? His wife went and took his place.... ministering to the people who killed her husband along with another widow..... and many were converted.... Including the men who killed her husband.

Now... If the woman had given up on the faith, and said that Jesus is a failure for not protecting her husband, would the souls of her husband's killers be saved.

Jesus said that we are the light of the world. Sometimes that means shining when we don't feel like it, when all hope is lost, when we are personally hurt. But we have to shine..... because somewhere among the people who hurt us is a Saul who will bring light to more millions.

Let us talk about saul/paul. He persecuted Christians. He took part in the death of a good man called Stephen. But Saul was converted by Jesus on the road to Damascus. The job was completed by Ananias and Barnabas..... members of the same church that he was prosecuting.Now what if Ananias had said that Jesus failed...since he could not protect Stephen.? What if Barnabas had left the faith? Where would Paul be?

Jesus gave you a mission as Christians.... gave us a mission.... to be a little light in a dark world. It is not comfortable business being a light. You may have to forgive, have to love, have to forget hurts done to you. Because you have a mission as a Christian... to help reconcile an evil world to the Lord. Not to sit back and expect your blessing for doing God a favour by following him.

The problem with the ex Christian the OP quoted is that he was following God for favors. That is not the kind of follower God wants.

I wish i could like this comment a million times.

carzola:
If you have been worshiping a god
Or gods and his not done anything
Anything for you.. He is useless to you..
The guy is entitled to his opinion and he has a right to question the things happening in his life..

since he does. not believe in him anymore, why is he still blaming Jesus? and from his comments, he knew the people that killed her......so since he no longer believe, let him take the laws into his own hands.

Mujtahida:

In other words you agree that God cares more about his rules and regulations than human beings. Remember we are not talking about human disasters at large oo but in the church, as in his children. Was it his congregated children that failed to build properly? Do you know that many who died had absolutely no idea how the church was built? if you were to punish for negligence is it those who were not responsible for the negligence you would punish? Is that how you a human being will go about it? (remember that passage that says if you being wicked knows how to give good gifts to your children how much more the heavenly father.. .. ) The occurrence of devastating Natural disasters like hurricane Katrina, Tsunamis, etc makes your points baseless. So who is to blame for natural disasters?

1.Again, God does sometimes not intervene in saving people from the effects of sin because he wants a world where people do what is right.

To use your earlier analogy of a father and child, while I would save my child, I also would want him to learn that crossing the road carelessly is not good... because a time is coming when I won't be physically there to save him. He has to get it into his heart that crossing the road carelessly is wrong. If I am always there to save him, he won't learn that at all. Meaning... He ain't gonna mature.

2.God is not punishing the pastor and the builders of that defective church, because God is giving them a chance to repent. If they do not repent, then God will punish them.

3.So far the law is not punishing the people involved. In the Bible, the law agents are told to do their work well.... Because an unjust society ends up in destruction. Hence the lessons of the Kings of Israel.

4.God cannot force people to obey him. That is why he gave us free will. No free will, the world would be made up of mindless God contolled drones. You won't want that.

5.I have no complete answer to the suffering question. But I know God has given us brains to mitigate the effects of our sufferings... by thinking out solutions. Katrina would have been less destructive if certain mistakes had not been made.

calmie:
Cant shup up ..... i did not put a gun on ur head to quote me ... u cant force ur belief on me. There are civil ways to talk than insulting people . Get sense by all means dear!

oya give me money to buy sense.....smallest size na #200

I love this guy.

pressplay411:


Living testimony? Care to elaborate?

Yeah. What exactly do you wanna know?

Kdon2:


Your turn soon come

Chineke forbid.

What shall separate me from the love of Jesus Christ?


NOTHING!!!

seanery:



Religion generally is rubbish.

May I please know the religious belief you may have practiced?
Thanks.

9jakohai:


1.Again, God does sometimes not intervene in saving people from the effects of sin because he wants a world where people do what is right.

To use your earlier analogy of a father and child, [/b]while I would save my child, I also would want him to learn that crossing the road carelessly is not good... because a time is coming when I won't be physically there to save him[b]. He has to get it into his heart that crossing the road carelessly is wrong. If I am always there to save him, he won't learn that at all. Meaning... He ain't gonna mature.

2.God is not punishing the pastor and the builders of that defective church, because God is giving them a chance to repent. If they do not repent, then God will punish them.

3.So far the law is not punishing the people involved. In the Bible, the law agents are told to do their work well.... Because an unjust society ends up in destruction. Hence the lessons of the Kings of Israel.

4.God cannot force people to obey him. That is why he gave us free will. No free will, the world would be made up of mindless God contolled drones. You won't want that.

5.I have no complete answer to the suffering question. But I know God has given us brains to mitigate the effects of our sufferings... by thinking out solutions. Katrina would have been less destructive if certain mistakes had not been made.

These are all your own conjectures, suppositions and opinions. As for the bolded that is what every responsible and good father would do. You save your child first. The lesson comes after that. And the truth is if the child is normal he would learn from the experience of the life threatening situation without any further lesson from you cos the law of self preservation will instruct him not to make the same mistake again. That is how we all learnt. Our parents did not allow the fire to consume us to ashes, the car to hit and kill us the electricity to shock us to death, the wound to fester till our hand or legs are amputated just so a lesson on obedience can be learnt. If we had died where would the opportunity to learn come from. For some unknown reasons the heavenly father doesn't act this way. Myles Monroe, Jim Reeves and countless host of other men of God have died in accidents. What happened to the word that says I will protect you, I will save you? Oga the truth is human beings as limited and imperfect as they are, would keep their word to protect and save their loved ones especially if they have all the power that is claimed to be at God's disposal.
I once read a woman say that if her loved child who died was in hell as preached by the Pastor that she was ready to go to hell and be with her child.
The christian world view takes its interpretation from sin. Everything is explained from that perspective. The christian God is obsessed with sin. I know that sin so called is a product of the absence of God. Do your children misbehave that much when you are at home compare to when you are not? God is absent even in the lives of Christians, he is absent from the churches. Pentecost should not be read about, it should not be an attrophied historical artefact in the museum of the church. It should not even be recorded. No need for that. It should be a living, constant experience of the churches. Men sin because God is absent.

Pennyways:
I truly understand, I myself sometimes think otherwise. But I still believe God is in existence, in that fact our Lord Jesus Christ is not useless

your opinion to that why I shouldn't rash out cause is ur believe

XaintJoel20:

Yeah. What exactly do you wanna know?

You say you're a living testimony, I'm I right in assuming you had a personal miracle?
Hope you don't mind sharing your testimony.

THAT GUY IS THE APPLE OF GODS EYE
MARK MY WORD

A man lost a family member, a loved one, and people are out here insulting him? But who else can insult a man who is in grief for losing a family member? definitely not the agnostics!!! And surely not the Deists!!! And sango worshippers can never be so heartless and senseless!!!

The only imbeciles that can confidently insult a man who has just lost a loved one is a "CHRISATIAN HYPOCRITE WHOSE MOUTH IS FILLED WITH HIPPO SHIT"!!!

9jakohai:


Right... he makes a good point.

OK... The problem with most Christians is that they think that becoming a Christian and following God means no more problems, no more issues. everything is OK.

Well, the early Christians did not have that luxury .A good number of them died for believing in God..... despite all the promises of blessings.

But why does God allow bad things happen to good people?

Recently on BBC, the daughter of a missionaries told her parents story. Her father was a missionary and a good man who died in the course of the job....killed by the idol worshippers he was trying to reach (no offense to my pagan brothers and sisters). What did his wife do? His wife went and took his place.... ministering to the people who killed her husband along with another widow..... and many were converted.... Including the men who killed her husband.

Now... If the woman had given up on the faith, and said that Jesus is a failure for not protecting her husband, would the souls of her husband's killers be saved.

Jesus said that we are the light of the world. Sometimes that means shining when we don't feel like it, when all hope is lost, when we are personally hurt. But we have to shine..... because somewhere among the people who hurt us is a Saul who will bring light to more millions.

Let us talk about saul/paul. He persecuted Christians. He took part in the death of a good man called Stephen. But Saul was converted by Jesus on the road to Damascus. The job was completed by Ananias and Barnabas..... members of the same church that he was prosecuting.Now what if Ananias had said that Jesus failed...since he could not protect Stephen.? What if Barnabas had left the faith? Where would Paul be?

Jesus gave you a mission as Christians.... gave us a mission.... to be a little light in a dark world. It is not comfortable business being a light. You may have to forgive, have to love, have to forget hurts done to you. Because you have a mission as a Christian... to help reconcile an evil world to the Lord. Not to sit back and expect your blessing for doing God a favour by following him.

The problem with the ex Christian the OP quoted is that he was following God for favors. That is not the kind of follower God wants.

for ref

9jakohai:


Right... he makes a good point.

OK... The problem with most Christians is that they think that becoming a Christian and following God means no more problems, no more issues. everything is OK.

Well, the early Christians did not have that luxury .A good number of them died for believing in God..... despite all the promises of blessings.

But why does God allow bad things happen to good people?

Recently on BBC, the daughter of a missionaries told her parents story. Her father was a missionary and a good man who died in the course of the job....killed by the idol worshippers he was trying to reach (no offense to my pagan brothers and sisters). What did his wife do? His wife went and took his place.... ministering to the people who killed her husband along with another widow..... and many were converted.... Including the men who killed her husband.

Now... If the woman had given up on the faith, and said that Jesus is a failure for not protecting her husband, would the souls of her husband's killers be saved.

Jesus said that we are the light of the world. Sometimes that means shining when we don't feel like it, when all hope is lost, when we are personally hurt. But we have to shine..... because somewhere among the people who hurt us is a Saul who will bring light to more millions.

Let us talk about saul/paul. He persecuted Christians. He took part in the death of a good man called Stephen. But Saul was converted by Jesus on the road to Damascus. The job was completed by Ananias and Barnabas..... members of the same church that he was prosecuting.Now what if Ananias had said that Jesus failed...since he could not protect Stephen.? What if Barnabas had left the faith? Where would Paul be?

Jesus gave you a mission as Christians.... gave us a mission.... to be a little light in a dark world. It is not comfortable business being a light. You may have to forgive, have to love, have to forget hurts done to you. Because you have a mission as a Christian... to help reconcile an evil world to the Lord. Not to sit back and expect your blessing for doing God a favour by following him.

The problem with the ex Christian the OP quoted is that he was following God for favors. That is not the kind of follower God wants.

God bless you

flyca:

Is what I said true or false? Are you a Muslim? Why are you commenting on a Christian thread?

My comment has nothing to do with my religion
Just common sense which they say isn't common.

shewa88:

My comment has nothing to do with my religion
Just common sense which they say isn't common.

Common sense and you can't answe my question if what I said was true or false. Common sense indeed!

9jakohai:


Right... he makes a good point.

OK... The problem with most Christians is that they think that becoming a Christian and following God means no more problems, no more issues. everything is OK.

Well, the early Christians did not have that luxury .A good number of them died for believing in God..... despite all the promises of blessings.

But why does God allow bad things happen to good people?

Recently on BBC, the daughter of a missionaries told her parents story. Her father was a missionary and a good man who died in the course of the job....killed by the idol worshippers he was trying to reach (no offense to my pagan brothers and sisters). What did his wife do? His wife went and took his place.... ministering to the people who killed her husband along with another widow..... and many were converted.... Including the men who killed her husband.

Now... If the woman had given up on the faith, and said that Jesus is a failure for not protecting her husband, would the souls of her husband's killers be saved.

Jesus said that we are the light of the world. Sometimes that means shining when we don't feel like it, when all hope is lost, when we are personally hurt. But we have to shine..... because somewhere among the people who hurt us is a Saul who will bring light to more millions.

Let us talk about saul/paul. He persecuted Christians. He took part in the death of a good man called Stephen. But Saul was converted by Jesus on the road to Damascus. The job was completed by Ananias and Barnabas..... members of the same church that he was prosecuting.Now what if Ananias had said that Jesus failed...since he could not protect Stephen.? What if Barnabas had left the faith? Where would Paul be?

Jesus gave you a mission as Christians.... gave us a mission.... to be a little light in a dark world. It is not comfortable business being a light. You may have to forgive, have to love, have to forget hurts done to you. Because you have a mission as a Christian... to help reconcile an evil world to the Lord. Not to sit back and expect your blessing for doing God a favour by following him.

The problem with the ex Christian the OP quoted is that he was following God for favors. That is not the kind of follower God wants.

you have really made my day with this your post, I pray that this Jesus you stood for and defended on this thread will bless you immensly. Thank you.

PataAlhaja:


I think you are the useless fool here, you stupid thing!

You defend the same "God" who couldn't prevent your dad from being murdered in cold blood.

And you think you wouldn't have become a medical doctor today if you hadn't been "faithful" to the imaginary "God"? There are millions of atheistic medical doctors out there, Nigger!

Get it into your stubborn, abusive skull. There is no God!

...and learn to respect other people's opinion instead of hurling insults.

....and another fool..