bigfrancis21:


@bold...Nwanne I realized that long ago. I have known him and his sick comments since he entered nairaland, though once in a while he posts a reasonable comment. The rest are trashy.

I don't understand people who try to play experts in a field they know absolutely nothing about. I have been Igbo for over 30yrs and here we have a guy from another tribe trying to tell me who I am. This is madness. What in the world is ibo and Igbo ? Is that some attempt at mocking Igbo or what. Dude is mentally ill and I meant this ! Always making strange and unfounded statements.
Telling me white people named us ibo ,we are Ibibio,Onicha was not Igbo land and all kinds of sstupid statements. A lot of sick people are working the street...smh

Olu317:
Votre maladie est géniale.

And now he is talking to himself. I said it,you are mentally challenged....This proves it. How can you be speaking Latin to a man that doesn't understand it?

guys if all of you go to check out my ogiri stew now, there will be peace and hunger so go check it out and eat it ok

Oga where did DB Chambers find his stats? That is the real question.

bigfrancis21:










Hahaha. All these comments and accusations of being a revisionist in 24 hours? Lol, the information provided must have hit you so hard that you could only deny and reject it.

I weep for Nigerians of our generation. I am sure you'd claim to be a graduate because if you were, you would have seen the source of the tabular data you are asking for directly beneath the image, which is:

Source: “Rejoinder – The Significance of Igbo in the Bight of Biafra Slave-Trade- A Rejoinder to Northrup’s Myth Igbo ” (D.B. Chambers, 2002)
Name of published book: Rejoinder – The Significance of Igbo in the Bight of Biafra Slave-Trade- A Rejoinder to Northrup’s Myth Igbo
Author: D. B. Chambers
Year: 2002

Author, D. B. Chambers' book can be downloaded here: http://www.tandfonline.com/doi/abs/10.1080/714005225?journalCode=fsla20

2) Source of the tabular data showing estimated Yoruba slave exports (total sum circa 500,000):

https://books.google.com/books?id=k0gVVh9jwF4C&pg=PA341&lpg=PA341&dq=yoruba+and+voltaic+loss+rates&source=bl&ots=aatmOUPmRX&sig=NVr6f4-4nK9DBQyaLdzLa_LLauQ&hl=en&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjwnvaX4_7TAhWGQiYKHWf8AcsQ6AEIJzAA#v=onepage&q=yoruba%20and%20voltaic%20loss%20rates&f=false

Book name: Slavery, Colonialism and Economic Growth in Dahomey, 1640-1960
Author: Patrick Manning
Year: 1982

I do not fabricate nor upload fake 'images' or 'links'. The trans-atlantic slave trade is a field I am deeply knowledgeable about that I started researching into since 2008.

9jakool:

What is this?
Oga is a standalone word just like many words in Yoruba. They don't even have the same intonation. Why would oga come from organizer? Why wouldn't it come directly from master or boss, but organizer of all terms? Does that even make sense?

I wonder o!
In fact I don't know what these people do smoke; Oga (master, brother) mi, 'Oga! was gotten from 'organizer'? They argue everything forgetting that pidgin makes use of very flexible Yoruba language and it was more prominent in Lagos and Warri areas at the beginning...
There are lot of Yoruba words in pidgin to the extent that Igbos now think it's their words, eg. Oga, pele, patapata, abi, egusi, oyinbo, se, Sebi, nko, de, ti, ki lo, omo, sisi, etc

lx3as:


I wonder o!
In fact I don't know what these people do smoke; Oga (master, brother) mi, 'Oga! was gotten from 'organizer'? They argue everything forgetting that pidgin makes use of very flexible Yoruba language and it was more prominent in Lagos and Warri areas at the beginning...
There are lot of Yoruba words in pidgin to the extent that Igbos now think it's their words, eg. Oga, pele, patapata, abi, egusi, oyinbo, se, Sebi, nko, de, ti, ki lo, omo, sisi, etc

You know igbos love to claim

When we even have names like ogayemi ogakunle eye


Very soon, na igbo get agbada and agbero

lx3as:


I wonder o!
In fact I don't know what these people do smoke; Oga (master, brother) mi, 'Oga! was gotten from 'organizer'? They argue everything forgetting that pidgin makes use of very flexible Yoruba language and it was more prominent in Lagos and Warri areas at the beginning...
There are lot of Yoruba words in pidgin to the extent that Igbos now think it's their words, eg. Oga, pele, patapata, abi, egusi, oyinbo, se, Sebi, nko, de, ti, ki lo, omo, sisi, etc

Cc aljharem

'de' as in 'where you dey' is now Yoruba? And you call easterners claimers? You barely even know that many words imported with pidgin English are of Igbo origin, 'una' from 'unu' in Igbo (unu = you plural), 'dey' from 'di' in Igbo (Chi di = God dey, O di nma = e dey good), 'tey' from 'tee' in Igbo (O teela = e don tey) etc.

80% of these words you think are popular in Nigerian pidgin are only popular in Lagos pidgin. Not even Warri pidgin that is closer to SW compared to the SE. Warri pidgin is bereft of many of these so-called 'popular' words. Listen to any warri speaker, you barely hear those words save for 'omo', 'shebi', 'sey', etc. Oga most likely comes from organizer. I'm sorry there's no Yoruba proof of this word. Egusi is natively callled 'egwusi' in Igbo. Agbero and Agbada are not Igbo words. You can run around in circles if you want but let's call a spade a spade.

Una, derived from 'unu' in Igbo, or any of its derivatives, unu/wuna etc is one Igbo word that is overwhelmingly found in nearly all English-based patois spoken in most English-speaking countries in Africa and the Caribbean, starting eastwards from Cameroon, Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Liberia etc in Africa to Jamaica, Belize, Trinidad, Tobago, Guyana, St. Kitts etc. in the Caribbean and in the Gullah (English-based patois) dialect of United States. 'una'/'unu' is is spoken in over 10 different countries in Africa, North America and South America. Interestingly enough in Jamaica and Gullahh, they still use the original Igbo word, 'unu' in their Jamaican patois. In Gullah pidgin English spoken in Georgia and South Carolina of the United States, they retained the Igbo word for 'and', being 'na' till today. Some people would be surprised to learn that broken English, similar to that spoken in Jamaica is spoken natively in the US! It is called Gullah or Geeche. A typical Gullah speaker would say, 'me na unu', 95% similar to what an Igbo speaker would say, 'mu na unu' (me and you (plural)). It is not wrong to say that a Gullah person born and raised in the US who has never left the shores of America before would perfectly understand an Igbo speaker when he says, 'mu na unu'.

Another african american word of strong Igbo origin is 'ama' used to mean 'I will' which is still used in southern Igbo dialects. Growing up in Owerri in the early 2000s, it was very common to hear 'ama bia' (I will come), 'ama kpo gi' (I will call you) etc and I was shocked to hear the same word used by african americans in the same context, usage and meaning. I immediately pointed this out to my brother. 'ama' is popularly used in southern Igbo dialects (Imo, Abia, Rivers state) and coincidentally the bulk of Igbo slaves came from southern Igboland (Imo, Abia and Rivers state). In some parts of northen Igboland, 'mma' is used instead as in 'm ma fu gi' (I will see you). Those from Oji River (Enugu state), Ogbaru (Anambra state) etc will understand what I'm talking about. This has got to be an Igbo word perfectly retained in black american English over several centuries. Few weeks ago I emailed Dr. Douglas Chambers to look into this phenomenon and expect his research on this topic anytime soon.

Hate to bust your bubble but not everything is Igbo. If a word has literal translation that rhyms with its modern use then you can't say its origin is in your language. I know you Igbos like to feel like your at the centre of the universe but you ain't, really nobody is. and Dr. Chambers had better come correct with the course of his finding, otherwise we shall disgrace him.

bigfrancis21:
Una, derived from 'unu' in Igbo, or any of its derivatives, unu/wuna etc is one Igbo word that is overwhelmingly found in nearly all English-based patois spoken in most English-speaking countries in Africa and the Caribbean, starting eastwards from Cameroon, Nigeria, Ghana, Sierra Leone, Liberia etc in Africa to Jamaica, Belize, Trinidad, Tobago, Guyana, St. Kitts etc. in the Caribbean and in the Gullah (English-based patois) dialect of United States. 'una'/'unu' is is spoken in over 10 different countries in Africa, North America and South America. Interestingly enough in Jamaica and Gullahh, they still use the original Igbo word, 'unu' in their Jamaican patois. In Gullah pidgin English spoken in Georgia and South Carolina of the United States, they retained the Igbo word for 'and', being 'na' till today. Some people would be surprised to learn that broken English, similar to that spoken in Jamaica is spoken natively in the US! It is called Gullah or Geeche. A typical Gullah speaker would say, 'me na unu', 95% similar to what an Igbo speaker would say, 'mu na unu' (me and you (plural)). It is not wrong to say that a Gullah person born and raised in the US who has never left the shores of America before would perfectly understand an Igbo speaker when he says, 'mu na unu'.

Another african american word of strong Igbo origin is 'ama' used to mean 'I will' which is still used in southern Igbo dialects. Growing up in Owerri in the early 2000s, it was very common to hear 'ama bia' (I will come), 'ama kpo gi' (I will call you) etc and I was shocked to hear the same word used by african americans in the same context, usage and meaning. I immediately pointed this out to my brother. 'ama' is popularly used in southern Igbo dialects (Imo, Abia, Rivers state) and coincidentally the bulk of Igbo slaves came from southern Igboland (Imo, Abia and Rivers state). In some parts of northen Igboland, 'mma' is used instead as in 'm ma fu gi' (I will see you). Those from Oji River (Enugu state), Ogbaru (Anambra state) etc will understand what I'm talking about. This has got to be an Igbo word perfectly retained in black american English over several centuries. Few weeks ago I emailed Dr. Douglas Chambers to look into this phenomenon and expect his research on this topic anytime soon.

bigfrancis21:


Lol. Igbos have never claimed aso ebi, so using that example to buttress your 'claim' of oyinbo is totally irrelevant. The English language has borrowed words and also its native words. I won't even go further with you and absolutesuccess on whether Olaudah existed or not. No western think tank group thinks he's fake except for two half-baked so-called african historians, that's what's more important. Lol

PS: The fame of TB Joshua is nowhere close to that of T. D. Jakes, an African American pastor of Igbo descent. You go figure.

yes you are right. TD JAKES is a famous MOTIVATIONAL SPEAKER without power to heal and deliver demonic spirits.

TB JOSHUA is a famous healer with HOLY Spirit ANOINTED power where miraculous healings of terminal diseases are scientifically verifiable 7 days per week, 24 hours per day.

aljharem:


You know igbos love to claim

When we even have names like ogayemi ogakunle eye


Very soon, na igbo get agbada and agbero

You this pikin. Sharap

bigfrancis21:

Cc aljharem

'de' as in 'where you dey' is now Yoruba? And you call easterners claimers? You barely even know that many words imported with pidgin English are of Igbo origin, 'una' from 'unu' in Igbo (unu = you plural), 'dey' from 'di' in Igbo (Chi di = God dey, O di nma = e dey good), 'tey' from 'tee' in Igbo (O teela = e don tey) etc.

80% of these words you think are popular in Nigerian pidgin are only popular in Lagos pidgin. Not even Warri pidgin that is closer to SW compared to the SE. Warri pidgin is bereft of many of these so-called 'popular' words. Listen to any warri speaker, you barely hear those words save for 'omo', 'shebi', 'sey', etc. Oga most likely comes from organizer. I'm sorry there's no Yoruba proof of this word. Egusi is natively callled 'egwusi' in Igbo. Agbero and Agbada are not Igbo words. You can run around in circles if you want but let's call a spade a spade.

Actually I didn't want to comment again but for learning purpose, 'oga' is not gotten from 'organizer'; it's one of the tonal Yoruba words like Igba (time, calabash, 200, garden eggs, etc), Igbo (bush, headbutt, group, party -depending on the dialects because agbo is also used; from these gbogbo, everyone emerged), another one is oko (farm, stone, 20,etc). There are so many of them.

Oga as a tonal word can mean senior, master, brother or chameleon or serious in Yoruba. There are many renditions of 'Oga' as senior in central Yoruba area of Ife, Ijesas, Ekiti, even every part of Yoruba land, eg, Ogasola, gasola, Oga Sola, it's a word that has been in use from time immemorial.
Linguists believe that language continues to grow and decay, any language that fails to do this will die just like Latin. Growth of any language is mainly through slangs and borrowing, we should just stop this 'dicks' measurements and refuse to be clouded by emotions instead of sound understanding and judgment. This is just unnecessary argument just as many threads depict on nairaland. A linguist will be interested in finding the root of or relationship between Igbo- O di nma, O tela and Yoruba- O da ra, O tipe; not claiming one to mean this or that.

lx3as:


Actually I didn't want to comment again but for learning purpose, 'oga' is not gotten from 'organizer'; it's one of the tonal Yoruba words like Igba (time, calabash, 200, garden eggs, etc), Igbo (bush, headbutt, group, party -depending on the dialects because agbo is also used; from these gbogbo, everyone emerged), another one is oko (farm, stone, 20,etc). There are so many of them.

Oga as a tonal word can mean senior, master, brother or chameleon or serious in Yoruba. There are many renditions of 'Oga' as senior in central Yoruba area of Ife, Ijesas, Ekiti, even every part of Yoruba land, eg, Ogasola, gasola, Oga Sola, it's a word that has been in use from time immemorial.
Linguists believe that language continues to grow and decay, any language that fails to do this will die just like Latin. Growth of any language is mainly through slangs and borrowing, we should just stop this 'dicks' measurements and refuse to be clouded by emotions instead of sound understanding and judgment. This is just unnecessary argument just as many threads depict on nairaland. A linguist will be interested in finding the root of or relationship between Igbo- O di nma, O tela and Yoruba- O da ra, O tipe; not claiming one to mean this or that.

U try.. Kudos

lx3as:


Actually I didn't want to comment again but for learning purpose, 'oga' is not gotten from 'organizer'; it's one of the tonal Yoruba words like Igba (time, calabash, 200, garden eggs, etc), Igbo (bush, headbutt, group, party -depending on the dialects because agbo is also used; from these gbogbo, everyone emerged), another one is oko (farm, stone, 20,etc). There are so many of them.

Oga as a tonal word can mean senior, master, brother or chameleon or serious in Yoruba. There are many renditions of 'Oga' as senior in central Yoruba area of Ife, Ijesas, Ekiti, even every part of Yoruba land, eg, Ogasola, gasola, Oga Sola, it's a word that has been in use from time immemorial.
Linguists believe that language continues to grow and decay, any language that fails to do this will die just like Latin. Growth of any language is mainly through slangs and borrowing, we should just stop this 'dicks' measurements and refuse to be clouded by emotions instead of sound understanding and judgment. This is just unnecessary argument just as many threads depict on nairaland. A linguist will be interested in finding the root of or relationship between Igbo- O di nma, O tela and Yoruba- O da ra, O tipe; not claiming one to mean this or that.

Just like your precedents, you still haven't provided tangible proof other than, 'oga is yoruba and you must believe me'. Provide us a link to the earliest dictionary or compilation of yoruba words (Ajayi Crowther's dictionary being one of the earliest Yoruba wordlist compilations) which includes 'oga' in it. To the best of my knowledge, I am yet to see any, which is indication that the word 'oga' is a recent adoption into general Nigerian lingo, not an ancient one, thus NOT of Yoruba origin. I need not tell you that words pass around before one is born and just because you were born in a time when a word is being popularly used does not mean it is native to your ethnic group. I'm glad you mentioned lingusit - a true linguist will look at the earliest academic mention in determining the source/origin of a word, which in this case does not favor the so-called origination of 'oga' from Yoruba. Moreover, 'oga' means different things in Igbo also depending on pronunciation (master, he went, he went?, he/she/it will etc) but I would not consider that as proof of Igbo origin. That is not how linguistics work. I'm more inclined to believe it comes from the English word, 'organizer'. It is simply just a recent word adopted into Nigerian lingo and no tribe/ethnic group as of this time can lay claim to it.

naijalander:
Hate to bust your bubble but not everything is Igbo. If a word has literal translation that rhyms with its modern use then you can't say its origin is in your language. I know you Igbos like to feel like your at the centre of the universe but you ain't, really nobody is. and Dr. Chambers had better come correct with the course of his finding, otherwise we shall disgrace him.

Sorry to burst which bubble? You consider this thing you wrote up there as 'bursting bubble'? When you did not come up with tangible evidence to rebut my post, other than your personal nuances? Dr. Chambers works were published long ago in 2002, long ago before you even knew anything about slavery or how it occurred and also long enough for any established historian worth his onion to rebut his claims, if any but there's been none because there's no need to. The man holds a PhD, which should tell you something, and I'm sure you don't.

What I wrote up there is an established fact. I don't make things up. The pidgin English that we speak today is the broken/bad English developed by african slaves in the diaspora introduced by the christian missionaries to the shores of africa when they returned a few centuries later to africa not to buy slaves but to spread their religion, and the pidgin English developing varieties over the years according to country but basically remains the same.

I also need not remind you that each European country tended to prefer certain slaves from certain areas. The English slave traders preferred and bought slaves mostly from Angola, Congo and Bight of Biafra whereas the Portuguese preferred slaves from the Bight of Benin and this explains why Igbo slaves were found mostly in English-speaking countries today (former British colonies, English being the legacy of British colonization) such as the US, Jamaica, Belize, Guyana, Trinidad, Tobago, St. Kitts, St. Vincent etc. and Yoruba slaves were taken mostly to Brazil and Cuba (Latin America). However, slaves from non-priority areas made their way into English-speaking areas or Latino-speaking areas but they were in the minority.

I laugh hysterically when you say you'll disgrace him. I'm inclined to think you're merely trying to pull a stunt.

I want to believe bigfrancis has his right to igno(ranc)e or feign 'authority' in how two words that none is his mother tongue, and he is convince that his 'assumption' forms the etymology, based on no semantic proof but random logic that 'organising' is the root-word for 'oga'. Then what word became disused for organising to become oga?

The Yoruba share the same word with Ogu, and their version is ogan, meaning 'leader'. The word oga connects with trainer/training than any other use. 'Oga na master' is a mantra that shows that pidgin users know what they are saying. Claiming that organiser became oga and then return to pidgin as 'master' is classic aberration of logic.

The recourse to Ogu help me understand the word better because ogan means master, azonvi means trainee. The word azonvi is direct translation of Yoruba to Ogu, and it means 'omose' (son of work) which is Yoruba for trainee. Who could have borrowed idea for trainee? Ogu did, yes but how?

When Yoruba wants to graduate, they call it 'freedom' They don't have another word that I know. But the Ogu would say 'yonda' which is Yoruba, meaning freedom. The Yoruba do not use the word iyonda when they want to graduate from training, likewise Ogu did not use their language.

The Yoruba learn professional trade from the british, the Ogu did likewise but not as much as Yoruba, so the Yoruba spread the training culture and the Ogu sustain the term that is Yoruba for freedom where Yoruba had employed foreign term. Organiser is not the same as master.

OGA NA MASTER

absoluteSuccess:
I want to believe bigfrancis has his right to ignor(ranc)e or feign authority in how two words that none are his mother tongue and he is convince that his 'assumption' forms the etymology, based on no semantic proof but random logic that organising is the root word for oga. Then what word became disused for organising to become oga?

The Yoruba share the same word with Ogu, and their version is ogan, meaning 'leader'. The word oga connects with trainer/training than any other use. 'Oga na master' is a mantra that shows that pidgin users know what they are saying. Claiming that organiser became oga and then return to pidgin as 'master' is classic aberration of logic.

The recourse to Ogu help me understand the word better because ogan means master, azonvi means trainee. The word azonvi is direct translation of Yoruba to Ogu, and it means 'omose' (son of work) which is Yoruba for trainee. Who could have borrowed idea for trainee? Ogu did, yes but how?

When Yoruba wants to graduate, they call it 'freedom' They don't have another word that I know. But the Ogu would say 'yonda' which is Yoruba, meaning freedom. The Yoruba do not use the word iyonda when they want to graduate from training, likewise Ogu did not use their language.

The Yoruba learn professional trade from the british, the Ogu did likewise but not as much as Yoruba, so the Yoruba spread the training culture and the Ogu sustain the term that is Yoruba for freedom where Yoruba had employed foreign term. Organiser is not the same as master.

OGA NA MASTER

I just wasted 3 minutes reading this trying to connect the logic in this post of yours. It's just rubbish.

Ogbeni take a seat and be taught the concept of tolerance. Walking around cyber space with your foolish sense of accomplishment. Igbo this, Igbo that...puh lease!!!

And who cares who Chambers is anyway? Just coming here dropping screen shots trying to rewrite well detailed history to suit your ego. Gtfoh

bigfrancis21:


Sorry to burst which bubble? You consider this thing you wrote up there as 'bursting bubble'? When you did not come up with tangible evidence to rebut my post, other than your personal nuances? Dr. Chambers works were published long ago in 2002, long ago before you even knew anything about slavery or how it occurred and also long enough for any established historian worth his onion to rebut his claims, if any but there's been none because there's no need to. The man holds a PhD, which should tell you something, and I'm sure you don't.

What I wrote up there is an established fact. I don't make things up. The pidgin English that we speak today is the broken/bad English developed by african slaves in the diaspora introduced by the christian missionaries to the shores of africa when they returned a few centuries later to africa not to buy slaves but to spread their religion, and the pidgin English developing varieties over the years according to country but basically remains the same.

I also need not remind you that each European country tended to prefer certain slaves from certain areas. The English slave traders preferred and bought slaves mostly from Angola, Congo and Bight of Biafra whereas the Portuguese preferred slaves from the Bight of Benin and this explains why Igbo slaves were found mostly in English-speaking countries today (former British colonies, English being the legacy of British colonization) such as the US, Jamaica, Belize, Guyana, Trinidad, Tobago, St. Kitts, St. Vincent etc. and Yoruba slaves were taken mostly to Brazil and Cuba (Latin America). However, slaves from non-priority areas made their way into English-speaking areas or Latino-speaking areas but they were in the minority.

I laugh hysterically when you say you'll disgrace him. I'm inclined to think you're merely trying to pull a stunt.

bigfrancis21:


Just like your precedents, you still haven't provided tangible proof other than, 'oga is yoruba and you must believe me'. Provide us a link to the earliest dictionary or compilation of yoruba words (Ajayi Crowther's dictionary being one of the earliest Yoruba wordlist compilations) which includes 'oga' in it. To the best of my knowledge, I am yet to see any, which is indication that the word 'oga' is a recent adoption into general Nigerian lingo, not an ancient one, thus NOT of Yoruba origin. I need not tell you that words pass around before one is born and just because you were born in a time when a word is being popularly used does not mean it is native to your ethnic group. I'm glad you mentioned lingusit - a true linguist will look at the earliest academic mention in determining the source/origin of a word, which in this case does not favor the so-called origination of 'oga' from Yoruba. Moreover, 'oga' means different things in Igbo also depending on pronunciation (master, he went, he went?, he/she/it will etc) but I would not consider that as proof of Igbo origin. That is not how linguistics work. I'm more inclined to believe it comes from the English word, 'organizer'. It is simply just a recent word adopted into Nigerian lingo and no tribe/ethnic group as of this time can lay claim to it.

If you have anyone that understand Yoruba ask him or her the translation of this sentence: O ga ju mi lo. It means, 'He/she is higher than me' or 'He/she/it is taller than me'. now look at the the word 'ga' - higher. In Yoruba context who is higher means who is the senior or master. The noun and adjective of the verb 'ga' is 'Oga'.
See, this is not a competition. Oga is African word, not from English 'organizer' at all, very funny! You should have explained how 'organizer became 'Oga'. What would have been your response if I had proposed that Igbo word 'Dalu' was from English word 'Dabbling' because of 'da' syllable, would that make sense to you? So these Yoruba words, mi (me), yan (yawn), etc are also English words?

bigfrancis21:


I just wasted 3 minutes reading this trying to connect the logic in this post of yours. It's just rubbish.

If you didn't see anything to learn in that post, it shows you are too big to learn, big francis indeed. Every students of linguistics knows that each spoken word in a language is a vestige of history.

I have given the axiom of my post in the clause, OGA NA MASTER knowing fully well how you must cling to stalemate as salvation to your soul. You can keep deceiving yourself anytime you feel like.

Its the consolation you get for not being Yoruba but obsessed with her history.

guys why wasting time with an history revisionist and Igbo supremacist that want to cling on anything to prove his point against a detailed fact.

naijalander:

Ogbeni take a seat and be taught the concept of tolerance. Walking around cyber space with your foolish sense of accomplishment. Igbo this, Igbo that...puh lease!!!

And who cares who Chambers is anyway? Just coming here dropping screen shots trying to rewrite well detailed history to suit your ego. Gtfoh

Typical black man. When he is bereft of points or ideas to make he degenerates into profanity and cursing. Grossly unable to sustain an intellectual discourse for too long. Yet we wonder why the black man is behind. Smh

bigfrancis21:


Typical black man. When he is bereft of points or ideas to make he degenerates into profanity and cursing. Grossly unable to sustain an intellectual discourse for too long. Yet we wonder why the black man is behind. Smh

This is reverse psychology.

lx3as:


If you have anyone that understand Yoruba ask him or her the translation of this sentence: O ga ju mi lo. It means, 'He/she is higher than me' or 'He/she/it is taller than me'. now look at the the word 'ga' - higher. In Yoruba context who is higher means who is the senior or master. The noun and adjective of the verb 'ga' is 'Oga'.
See, this is not a competition. Oga is African word, not from English 'organizer' at all, very funny! You should have explained how 'organizer became 'Oga'. What would have been your response if I had proposed that Igbo word 'Dalu' was from English word 'Dabbling' because of 'da' syllable, would that make sense to you? So these Yoruba words, mi (me), yan (yawn), etc are also English words?

What if I told you that in Igbo, O ga m or O gara m means 'he/she passed me' (which loosely could mean, he/she is better than me in life etc)? The point I am trying to make is such lexical examples are not useful in determining the origin of 'oga' when the same examples you gave can be found in other languages too. It does not hold water.

Of course it is not a competition. I do not see any competition taking place here other than trying to put facts straight. There are many English words which have been adopted into our respective lingos, and either shortened or modified. It is not a new thing that oga from organizer is one of them. It is very plausible.

Mi for 'me' is just one word ubiquitously found in many languages worldwide. In french, it is 'moi', in Spanish it is 'mi' (mi amor - my love), in English it is 'me', in Igbo it is 'mu', in Yoruba it is 'mi' etc. Obviously no linguist will try to claim mi/me/mu/moi comes from this language or the other.

You would have a very valid point if you are able to come up with an early Yoruba dictionary, written preferably pre-colonization era where 'oga' is listed in the dictionary. This would lend credence to your point of view.

I await.

OkoNDOoBo:
guys why wasting time with an history revisionist and Igbo supremacist that want to cling on anything to prove his point against a detailed fact.

What is this detailed fact? Is this your detailed fact published academic evidence? The last time I checked none of your cohorts was able to provide concrete evidence other than personal nuances.

bigfrancis21:


[/b]What if I told you that in Igbo, O ga m or O gara m means 'he/she passed me' (which loosely could mean, he/she is better than me in life etc)? [/b] The point I am trying to make is such lexical examples are not useful in determining the origin of 'oga' when the same examples you gave can be found in other languages too. It does not hold water.

Of course it is not a competition. I do not see any competition taking place here other than trying to put facts straight. There are many English words which have been adopted into our respective lingos, and either shortened or modified. It is not a new thing that oga from organizer is one of them. It is very plausible.

Mi for 'me' is just one word ubiquitously found in many languages worldwide. In french, it is 'moi', in Spanish it is 'mi' (mi amor - my love), in English it is 'me', in Igbo it is 'mu', in Yoruba it is 'mi' etc. Obviously no linguist will try to claim mi/me/mu/moi comes from this language or the other.

You would have a very valid point if you are able to come up with an early Yoruba dictionary, written preferably pre-colonization era where 'oga' is listed in the dictionary. This would lend credence to your point of view.

I await.

And what if the bolded is the point you are now trying to sell after cleverly assimilating the Yoruba interpretation I recently gave? Oga is Yoruba reduced from english word 'organising, but igbo has it better as O ga m.

At what point did it suddenly occur to you that such interpretation is possible in igbo? How come this awakening? How did this igbo version rhyme with organising too?

Never wander from your original claim that Oga is from 'organising' or I will ask you if you are brain dead than to realize that the igbo version is equally tenable as the root word for Oga in future arguments?

Copycat.

bigfrancis21:


You would have a very valid point if you are able to come up with an early Yoruba dictionary, written preferably pre-colonization era where 'oga' is listed in the dictionary. This would lend credence to your point of view.

I await.

Is the 1850s precolonial enough?

1. Vocabulary of Yoruba by Crowther. 1852: https://archive.org/details/vocabularyofyoru00crow

2. Grammar and Dictionary of Yoruba by TJ Bowen. 1858: https://archive.org/details/grammardictionar00bowerich

3. And just as a bonus this one from the early next century, The Dictionary of the Yoruba Language by the CMS. 1913 : https://archive.org./stream/DictionaryOfTheYorubaLanguage/A_Dictionary_of_the_Yoruba_Language_djvu.tx

All three dictionaries contain the word 'oga' (which means a master, a distinguished person, one who is exalted, etc); and they all also contain the verb-root 'ga' (which means high, to exalt, etc) from which the word 'oga' is formed. One familiar with Yoruba (and even other West African languages for that matter) will be familiar with the tendency for nouns to be formed from certain verb-roots, usually by adding 'o', or sometimes another vowel in front of the verb-root. Thus 'oku' (corpse) is formed from the verb-root 'ku' ( die), and 'obe' (knife) is from the verb-root 'be' (cut). 'Oga' in the same fashion is quite simply from the verb-root 'ga', and is an authentic pre-Colonial, pre-English Yoruba word.

What is this detailed fact? Is this your detailed fact published academic evidence? The last time I checked none of your cohorts was able to provide concrete evidence other than personal nuances.

I can't seem to be able to comment on this thread unless I quote somebody. Odd.

Anyway...

Relevant screenshots from Crowther's 1852 dictionary(showing the verb-root 'ga' and the noun 'oga'.

What is this detailed fact? Is this your detailed fact published academic evidence? The last time I checked none of your cohorts was able to provide concrete evidence other than personal nuances.

From Bowen's 1858 dictionary...

What is this detailed fact? Is this your detailed fact published academic evidence? The last time I checked none of your cohorts was able to provide concrete evidence other than personal nuances.

From CMS's 1913 dictionary....

RedboneSmith:


Is the 1850s precolonial enough?

1. Vocabulary of Yoruba by Crowther. 1852: https://archive.org/details/vocabularyofyoru00crow

2. Grammar and Dictionary of Yoruba by TJ Bowen. 1858: https://archive.org/details/grammardictionar00bowerich

3. And just as a bonus this one from the early next century, The Dictionary of the Yoruba Language by the CMS. 1913 : https://archive.org./stream/DictionaryOfTheYorubaLanguage/A_Dictionary_of_the_Yoruba_Language_djvu.tx

All three dictionaries contain the word 'oga' (which means a master, a distinguished person, one who is exalted, etc); and they all also contain the verb-root 'ga' (which means high, to exalt, etc) from which the word 'oga' is formed. One familiar with Yoruba (and even other West African languages for that matter) will be familiar with the tendency for nouns to be formed from certain verb-roots, usually by adding 'o', or sometimes another vowel in front of the verb-root. Thus 'oku' (corpse) is formed from the verb-root 'ku' ( die), and 'obe' (knife) is from the verb-root 'be' (cut). 'Oga' in the same fashion is quite simply from the verb-root 'ga', and is an authentic pre-Colonial, pre-English Yoruba word.

I have to commend your intelligence and rebuttal skills.
I try to tell him that it has a direct meaning in Yoruba. Why would oga come from organizer of all words.
Don't mind him.

RedboneSmith:


Is the 1850s precolonial enough?

1. Vocabulary of Yoruba by Crowther. 1852: https://archive.org/details/vocabularyofyoru00crow

2. Grammar and Dictionary of Yoruba by TJ Bowen. 1858: https://archive.org/details/grammardictionar00bowerich

3. And just as a bonus this one from the early next century, The Dictionary of the Yoruba Language by the CMS. 1913 : https://archive.org./stream/DictionaryOfTheYorubaLanguage/A_Dictionary_of_the_Yoruba_Language_djvu.tx

All three dictionaries contain the word 'oga' (which means a master, a distinguished person, one who is exalted, etc); and they all also contain the verb-root 'ga' (which means high, to exalt, etc) from which the word 'oga' is formed. One familiar with Yoruba (and even other West African languages for that matter) will be familiar with the tendency for nouns to be formed from certain verb-roots, usually by adding 'o', or sometimes another vowel in front of the verb-root. Thus 'oku' (corpse) is formed from the verb-root 'ku' ( die), and 'obe' (knife) is from the verb-root 'be' (cut). 'Oga' in the same fashion is quite simply from the verb-root 'ga', and is an authentic pre-Colonial, pre-English Yoruba word.

That settles it then, at least for now. I expected the speakers of the language themselves to pull out this evidence because you don't take people's word at face value, especially in the field of research.

Igbo and Yoruba are similar in many ways. The phenomenon of adding 'o' to a verb to form a noun is present in Igbo language also. Many examples to give, dee (write) and odee (writer), gbu (kill) and Ogbu (killer), Chu (pursue) and Ochu ('pursuer', commonly given to a guy who goes after girls) etc. 'O' is also applied to verbs to obtain nouns in cases of non-human references, such as Odidi (patience, also called Ndidi) and 'die' (bear), Omume (behavior/event/occurrence) vs mee (do, behave, act), Ogwugwu (finish - noun) and 'gwu' (finish - verb), Odide (writing/ the act of writing) vs 'dee' (write), Olili (eating) vs 'lie' (eat) etc. Coincidentally, 'bee' means cut in Igbo and Obee in Igbo would literally mean 'a cutter'. The more we compare both languages the more we see more similarities between both.